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It's like this government is trapped into some Sisyphean nightmare where nothing they attempt can be completed. The ghosts of Perustuslaki, Inability to Not Lie in Front of Eduskunta Constantly and apparently Inability to Consult Your Fellow Elected loving Government Party (or your own, assuming Sipilä knew about the thing, entirely not possible) topple every single thing of theirs before it has even a chance to begin. http://www.hs.fi/kaupunki/a1455854302872?ref=suositeltu-aihe Seriously has a single idea of theirs ever gone past the planning stage? How can you be so bad at this? Is the literally fifth attempt at yhteiskuntasopimus going anywhere or did that fail too and I just missed it? DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Feb 19, 2016 |
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Feb 19, 2016 15:39
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Cerebral Bore posted:People with a bit more insight into the role that economics and logistics play in war would also note the enormous contribution of resources towards the war effort from the colonies, not the least of which would be all the oil that the Allies got from the middle east. HerraS posted:Ja tärkeempi pointti tässä on se että briteillä oli huomattavasti paremmat edellytykset pitkään sotaan koska niillä oli puoli maapalloa josta roudata ruokaa ja muuta tähdellistä kotosaarille. Natsien piti käydä vuoden parin välein ryöväämässä naapurimaita ettei niiden paska talous sortunut omaan paskuuteensa. indeed. mikä olikin mun alkuperäinen pointti, eli putinin venäjä valmistautuu sotaan, kylmään taikka kuumaan (ja kenen kanssa, sitä ei tiedä kuin putin itse), ja venäjällä on resurssit sotimiseen. jos mineraalivarannoiltaan rikas naapurimaa valmistautuu sotaan, siihen on hyvä reagoida jollain tavalla. toisin kuin natsisaksa, venäjän ei tarvitse valloittaa lisäalueita tyydyttääkseen mineraalitarpeensa. ainoa resurssi mistä venäjällä on tällä hetkellä akuutti puute on cashmoney. mikään ei kuitenkaan estä putinia julistamasta poikkeustilaa ja palaamasta strategisten mineraalien suhteen neukkulaiseen kaivostoimintaan, jossa kustannuksia (kuten esim. palkat) tärkeämpää on tuotantokiintiöiden täyttäminen. toki ihmisten materiaalinen hyvinvointi vähenisi siitä entisestään, mutta se on irrelevanttia, jos paskat on jo housuissa ja kapinat tukahdutetaan rautasella kouralla ja tehokkaalla propagandalla. Cerebral Bore posted:The Canadians mobilised around 1,5 million men and had the fourth-largest air fore on the Allied side. The South-East Asia theatre was mostly carried by the Indian Army, and India contrbuted around three million men in total for the war. HerraS posted:Kanadalaisia ja ANZACeja soti lähes jokaisella rintamalla. Egyptissä ja Libyassa sahattiin eestaas aika kauan. Japanilaiset tunki huolella kaikkialle mihin Tyynellämerellä ehtivät. kanadan ensimmäinen varsinainen taistelu euroopan rintamalla oli vasta 1942, anzacit ilmestyivät euroopan teatterille vasta 1941 ja saksa ei sotinut aasiassa. liittoutuneiden materiaaliylivoimasta huolimatta mikään ei varsinaisesti estänyt saksaa sotimasta manner-euroopassa ennen kuin vasta muutaman vuoden kuluttua. sota olisi päättynyt luultavasti jo 1939 saksan vallatessa puolaa, jos ranska ja britannia olisvat jo silloin lähteneet sotaretkelle saksaan. hypoteettinen esimerkki: jos venäjä aloittaa syystä tai toisesta ukrainan kaltaisen hydridisodan (tai perinteisen) suomen kanssa, ketään tuskin lohduttaa, jos vaikkapa jenkit muutaman vuoden kuluttua tulee puskemaan venäläiset takaisin rajan taakse, jos sodan olisi alun alkaenkin voinut välttää valmistautumalla siihen. Cerebral Bore posted:I mean, going by your own tortured logic we might also ask what difference the US did for the war. After all, they contributed relatively little frontline manpower (EDIT: In Europe, that is) compared to their size, and there was no war in the continental US. Smart people wouldn't do that, because they'd realize that having a safe base of production far from the front lines is a pretty good and important thing to have in a war. what the gently caress are you rambling about?
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Feb 19, 2016 15:42
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Ligur posted:We all know an Australian or a Brazilian person would probably fit in, more or less, with only a few hurdles and it has nothing to do with skin colour. While "knowing" is a heavy word to use here, There's definitely much truth to this statement. For instance, you can check here for some general values people have: http://www.worldvaluessurvey.org Unfortunately this is one of those "single page web apps" (poo poo poo poo poo poo) so sharing links is highly problematic. However, if you pick countries like Sweden, Germany, Brazil and Iraq, you will see that one sticks out like a sore thumb with backwards views (surprisingly Brazil has often much more sensible values than Germany!). Considering that once a person has formed some sort of ideology, it's very difficult to change it. Usually it takes a generation or few to actually adjust those. Especially when the migrants have been trained all their life to distrust officials and other people in the school of life. Seems extremely naive that any sort of sensible re-education programme could make the majority of these people properly integrate into our system. The language alone is a huge hurdle. Now if this is true, instead of hiding our heads in mounds of snow, we should instead figure out how to mitigate the problems. As Ligur said, some aunt in a VOK talking through an interpreter isn't going to change many worldviews. Oh yeah, and I was supposed to mention this earlier. Cerebral Bore, your debating style reminds me strongly of some politicians, who downplay serious questions because the presenter got some minute detail wrong. Then once that person corrects that detail, you still refuse to answer, because "oh you're that person who couldn't even get some simple facts straight, totally unworthy of my time." Try to respect other people and not just immigrants you won't even get to know ever. There have been numerous reasonable questions here to which you never produce proper answers but instead just claim that the other person is a fearmongering idiot who probably wants to purify the Finnish race and cremate immigrants. Considering how certain you seem to be of your view, you sure don't back it with much logical reasoning but only by ridiculing the other view. If the only argument is that we should help those in need no matter the cost, you should say so. Then we could go into the debate of healthcare and whether all sick people should get all the treatment that is available regardless of the prognosis or how much resources it would require. Then we could perhaps reach the conclusion that it's a bottomless pit and that no amount of resources is going to fulfill the need. That might lead to some sort of discussion about what the correct balance should be and we could reach a sort of conclusion.
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Feb 19, 2016 15:57
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Triple A posted:se suuri kysymys on että kestääkö Pax Americana enää seuravaa finanssipaskamyrskyä no worries, when the financial apocalypse finally happens bitcoin will save the faithful and prevent all future wars
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Feb 19, 2016 16:04
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OhYeah posted:Why are you, and the "progressive" left in general, so obsessed with people's skin colour? It just is that important to them. Enough programming, huh? When "progressive" left thinks of immigration it seems they start immediately classifying people into different ethnicities of various races (or in the case of Muslims, the race of Islam) and of course Middle-East and Africa, being poorest and most beleaguered by constant internal conflicts, are at the lowest rung of the "victim scale" and hence the most innocent and the most beyond reproach. Now, when they view any matters pertaining through the lens of race and racism, so hard-coded anything else is for all purposes and effects impossible, they obviously think everyone else does too. This is also why they will simply not believe you or anyone else who says they don't give a crap about skin melanin. As of now, I have never personally met anyone who views mass immigration with suspicion only because most migrants tend to be Asians, Arabs or Africans but from reading social media comments, they probably do exist. The liberal left in this case is just a polar opposite: they can and must view mass immigration especially from Asia, Middle-East or Africa only in a positive light or if problems surface, the blame is, of course, on the "privileged white" people who receive them. As for most people who don't think mass immigration via asylum seeking is the best poo poo (at least in my bubble), they would think exactly like they do now if the immigrants were, say, Ukrainian, Polish or Australian asylum seekers. As long as their track record for integrating to the society at large, finding work, getting the kids educated and staying out of trouble was as bad as that of Iraqis or for example Somalians they would be exactly as unwelcome.
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Feb 19, 2016 16:44
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Ligur posted:It just is that important to them. Enough programming, huh? When "progressive" left thinks of immigration it seems they start immediately classifying people into different ethnicities of various races (or in the case of Muslims, the race of Islam) and of course Middle-East and Africa, being poorest and most beleaguered by constant internal conflicts, are at the lowest rung of the "victim scale" and hence the most innocent and the most beyond reproach. you've finally brought stormfront to the SA forums, I love you goon sir  Great to meet fellow racists on here. gently caress all those sub human pieces of poo poo
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Feb 19, 2016 17:00
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Ligur posted:It just is that important to them. Enough programming, huh? When "progressive" left thinks of immigration it seems they start immediately classifying people into different ethnicities of various races (or in the case of Muslims, the race of Islam) and of course Middle-East and Africa, being poorest and most beleaguered by constant internal conflicts, are at the lowest rung of the "victim scale" and hence the most innocent and the most beyond reproach. ligur: you see, there's "progressives" out there, who, in my opinion, love sucking black cocks. Now, let me tell you about the Race of Islam, The Muslim, what the Left classifies as "a human being," everyone else: uh oh ehre we go again  ligur: this is how The Leftist :airquotes: "progressive" thinks. They all eat curry, kale, and look a certain way, and quite frankly, I think we can do without them. nauta: kyllä olen mies ligur: you see, in MY group, that doesn't have any outsiders or anything like that, we think they are racist, and we are totally not racist. that oh guy: buwwh? zööh? derr ligur: doesn't matter if they are a friend of the family, spic, gook, or a white man from Australia, we would think the same on immigration: Finland for the Finns, gently caress the sami, they're sweden's problem now bitch me: wow, that is a sensible response. thank you for sharing.
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Feb 19, 2016 17:12
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Feb 19, 2016 17:12
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Brienne pistä se pullo kii
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Feb 19, 2016 17:17
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mukavaa että olen päässyt briennen ihon alle
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Feb 19, 2016 17:21
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Nauta posted:mukavaa että olen päässyt briennen ihon alle lol you sure did pal    
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Feb 19, 2016 17:25
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jos nyt menisit vaan omalle pihalle huutelemmaa
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Feb 19, 2016 17:33
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DarkCrawler posted:It's like this government is trapped into some Sisyphean nightmare where nothing they attempt can be completed. The ghosts of Perustuslaki, Inability to Not Lie in Front of Eduskunta Constantly and apparently Inability to Consult Your Fellow Elected loving Government Party (or your own, assuming Sipilä knew about the thing, entirely not possible) topple every single thing of theirs before it has even a chance to begin. The 1999 perustuslaki is a failure. Kuntien itsemääräämisoikeus therein apparently prevents any meaningful healthcare or most other reforms. They should scrap the loving thing but that is essentially impossible so guess we are just hosed.
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Feb 19, 2016 17:47
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What kind of loving moron enshrined municipal rights in the constitution? Oh right it was Kepu. Carry on...
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Feb 19, 2016 17:48
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HerraS posted:Brienne pistä se pullo kii Ei pysty sanoon. Pajautus, viina vai liima?
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Feb 19, 2016 19:47
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doverhog posted:The 1999 perustuslaki is a failure. Kuntien itsemääräämisoikeus therein apparently prevents any meaningful healthcare or most other reforms. They should scrap the loving thing but that is essentially impossible so guess we are just hosed. Why don't they know or research that though? Why attempt something that can't be done before you scrap the 1999 law?
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Feb 19, 2016 21:24
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doverhog posted:What kind of loving moron enshrined municipal rights in the constitution? Oh right it was Kepu. Carry on... Municipal or... "mun isi" PAL ?!?!?!?
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Feb 19, 2016 21:28
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DarkCrawler posted:Why don't they know or research that though? Why attempt something that can't be done before you scrap the 1999 law? The law has to be interpreted each time, by perustuslakilautakunta. Can't know beforehand what is legal.
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Feb 19, 2016 22:40
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SnowblindFatal posted:Can you name some successful integrations of very different cultures in world history and how we might apply their teachings in our context? Roman Empire. What we need is an god emperor. And would you know it, Paavo Väyrynen is back in the game!
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Feb 19, 2016 23:10
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doverhog posted:The law has to be interpreted each time, by perustuslakilautakunta. Can't know beforehand what is legal. keitä siihen kuuluu ja kuka valitsee ne
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Feb 19, 2016 23:10
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Hogge Wild posted:keitä siihen kuuluu ja kuka valitsee ne https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perustuslakivaliokunta https://www.eduskunta.fi/FI/lakiensaataminen/valiokunnat/perustuslakivaliokunta/Sivut/default.aspx
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Feb 19, 2016 23:53
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Parties choose their representatives, and the number of seats a party has is derived from how many seats in parliament they have. No one really knows how politicized the decisions they make are, however they do appear to try to follow the letter of the law, and actually listen to legal scholars. Who decides who these perustuslaki asiantuntijas are is more opaque, I dunno how it's done really. Anyway, the problem appears to be mainly with the text itself. 121 § Kunnallinen ja muu alueellinen itsehallinto Suomi jakaantuu kuntiin, joiden hallinnon tulee perustua kunnan asukkaiden itsehallintoon. Kuntien hallinnon yleisistä perusteista ja kunnille annettavista tehtävistä säädetään lailla. Kunnilla on verotusoikeus. Lailla säädetään verovelvollisuuden ja veron määräytymisen perusteista sekä verovelvollisen oikeusturvasta. Itsehallinnosta kuntia suuremmilla hallintoalueilla säädetään lailla. Saamelaisilla on saamelaisten kotiseutualueella kieltään ja kulttuuriaan koskeva itsehallinto sen mukaan kuin lailla säädetään. That right there is the bit that has hosed up every sote attempt so far.
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Feb 20, 2016 06:33
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Cerebral Bore posted:You remember when I made fun of you for being a credulous moron who uncritically swallows every story that reinforces your prejudices? Because you're doing it again. Everyone has prejudices. Yours is that everything reported by non-"progressive" media is twisted or an outright fabrication to undermine the dream of a borderless world. quote:Leaving aside the fact that that article you just posted is talking about a different ship altogether, let's factcheck the whole Ocean Gala thingy. While Aftonbladet itsa bit tabloidy, they're still miles better than the Daily Heil, so let's see what they have to say about this: Listen, you're kind of missing the point here. Proving to me that there are TWO ships planned to house refugees (the majority of whom are economic migrants anyway), doesn't make the situation less ridiculous. quote:Bolding mine. So in other words, they're paying not only for the ship, but for full room and board as well as maintenence and other assorted costs. 453 Swedish crowns is about 47€ per person a day, which doesn't strike me as ruinously expensive in this case. For some strange reason that article you thought important enough to share doesn't mention this, but rather spends a hella lot of time talking about how fancy and nice and whatever and aren't you angry about all this? Strange how spin can change a story, huh? It's almost like a critical stance towards media is important. One would think that you of all people would get this, what with your blasting of "state sanctioned" and "censored" media, but for some strange reason you seem to make an exception when refugees are involved. Look, Mr. Butthurt. You are completely missing the point here, so I'll make it really simple. The issue is not whether they get to live in whatever level of perceived luxury people can gather from this story, but rather how completely unprepared and chaotic Sweden is when it comes to the logistics side of things. You can't say dumb poo poo like "we have no limits how many immigrants we can take" and expect people not to take a piss when the poo poo comes tumbling down just two months later. quote:But hey, the tabloid trash are reporting that them loving refugees get to live the high life, so we should all be really upset, right? It seems like all the European countries are running really low on resources, so we'll see more drastic extremes, people who get lucky and get to live on a cruise ship and people who are forced to sleep outside. quote:Seriously, I don't give a gently caress about your skin colour, sexuality or religion if you follow the general principle "live and let live". Rexroom posted:Since you're our resident Estonian, would you like to comment on this blog post? It certainly paints a bleak view of our brotherly neighbors and their worldview. Let's just say that the leader of this little group is one of the more talentless and gross people in my country. He recently wrote a disgusting short story full of child rape and got all surprised when people told him that he could get prosecuted for that poo poo. His Divine Shadow posted:Nato is gay and stupid and doesn't help any. No it isn't, Finland should join ASAP. kikkelivelho posted:Joining NATO isn't going to stop Russia from applying economic and political pressure. I guess it would be cool if they gave us nukes, but that's not going to happen so what'evs No one ever claimed it would. NATO is there to collectively protect each member state's territorial integrity. BrienneGetsHanged posted:ligur: doesn't matter if they are a friend of the family, spic, gook, or a white man from Australia, we would think the same on immigration: Finland for the Finns, gently caress the sami, they're sweden's problem now bitch You should do standup, I think your talents are wasted on this forum. Ligur posted:Ei pysty sanoon. Pajautus, viina vai liima? Could be all three...
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Feb 20, 2016 12:22
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OhYeah posted:Let's just say that the leader of this little group is one of the more talentless and gross people in my country. He recently wrote a disgusting short story full of child rape and got all surprised when people told him that he could get prosecuted for that poo poo. So in other words he's one of the few interesting Estonians around. Can't have that, now can we? 
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Feb 20, 2016 13:01
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Rexroom posted:So in other words he's one of the few interesting Estonians around. Can't have that, now can we? No, he's not "interesting", he's a wanker.
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Feb 20, 2016 13:09
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OhYeah posted:No, he's not "interesting", he's a wanker. Sometimes they are one and the same. However, it does show rather poor form for a country to prosecute someone for a fictional short story. That reeks of censorship of the arts, and I doubt any liberal democratic country is down for that.
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Feb 20, 2016 13:18
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Can't spell Estonia without Hitler you know. Makes you think...
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Feb 20, 2016 14:00
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OhYeah posted:Let's just say that the leader of this little group is one of the more talentless and gross people in my country. He recently wrote a disgusting short story full of child rape and got all surprised when people told him that he could get prosecuted for that poo poo. Sounds like some sort of degenerate art.
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Feb 20, 2016 14:23
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I have a small confession for the thread. I'm actually Väyrynen. Vote for me to fix Europe.
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Feb 20, 2016 14:25
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I thought you were Auer. Now I don't like you anymore 
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Feb 20, 2016 14:27
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Jerry Cotton posted:I thought you were Auer. Now I don't like you anymore You didn't notice the similarity in the media pictures?
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Feb 20, 2016 14:29
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You know, I can't really see much of a point with joining NATO considering most of the NATO member countries have nothing to contribute in case of actual war. Finland has a pretty good military right now, and cheap too. Sweden's right wingers managed to dismantle the national defense in favor of having a small army for foreign interventions and now the Swedes are panicking about not actually having a military worth a poo poo, and similar things happened in the UK, Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands. I am sure as hell that the same would happen here too in case we'd join Nato.
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Feb 20, 2016 15:13
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Herman Merman posted:https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perustuslakivaliokunta poliittisesti näyttää olevan melko tasaisesti valittuja, tosin pj:n paikka näyttääkin olevan tai olleen cockin läänitys melkoisia kehareita sinne on kyllä valittu joku tsättijuontaja guzenia-richardson-pingopango ei tiedä kyllä vittuakaan mistään perustuslaista tai lainsäädännöstä muutenkaan
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Feb 20, 2016 15:16
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Nauta posted:brienne kannattaa käydä lääkärillä tyhjentämässä hiekat pillusta tämä on muuten saman verran kuin saa tappouhkauksista uskookohan nuo kaiken mitä kirjoitan reportaaseihin vai käyttääköhän ne jotain käännösohjelmaa
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Feb 20, 2016 15:21
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Hogge Wild posted:tämä on muuten saman verran kuin saa tappouhkauksista Tuo ava on muuten niin justiinsa sopiva postauksiinisi
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Feb 20, 2016 15:24
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Darkest Auer posted:Tuo ava on muuten niin justiinsa sopiva postauksiinisi kiitos kiitos pidän myös klassisesta muumiavataristasi
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Feb 20, 2016 15:27
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Hogge Wild posted:tämä on muuten saman verran kuin saa tappouhkauksista Apparently telling a man to get the sand out of his vagina is sexist? You learn something new every day.
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Feb 20, 2016 15:29
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Geriatric Pirate posted:Apparently telling a man to get the sand out of his vagina is sexist? You learn something new every day. sinun tulisi tarkistaa etuoikeutesi miehelläkin voi olla tänä päivänä hiekkaa vitussaan
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Feb 20, 2016 15:33
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Cake Smashing Boob posted:Sounds like some sort of degenerate art. I think it was graphic enough to break some the child pornography law in some form. Some people protested against the prosecution, some people just called him an attention-seeking retard, some people just shrugged and didn't really care. Kemper Boyd posted:You know, I can't really see much of a point with joining NATO considering most of the NATO member countries have nothing to contribute in case of actual war. Finland has a pretty good military right now, and cheap too. Sweden's right wingers managed to dismantle the national defense in favor of having a small army for foreign interventions and now the Swedes are panicking about not actually having a military worth a poo poo, and similar things happened in the UK, Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands. I am sure as hell that the same would happen here too in case we'd join Nato. http://www.defenseone.com/politics/2015/06/nato-members-defense-spending-two-charts/116008/ Some interesting numbers here.
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Feb 20, 2016 16:00
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Kemper Boyd posted:You know, I can't really see much of a point with joining NATO considering most of the NATO member countries have nothing to contribute in case of actual war. Finland has a pretty good military right now, and cheap too. Sweden's right wingers managed to dismantle the national defense in favor of having a small army for foreign interventions and now the Swedes are panicking about not actually having a military worth a poo poo, and similar things happened in the UK, Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands. I am sure as hell that the same would happen here too in case we'd join Nato. Yeah nato is great if you got poo poo for brains. Like was said in the article linked earlier, Nato can't even defend the baltic states even if they wanted in their current state.
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Feb 20, 2016 16:17
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