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"Your character is dead, but their previously unmentioned twin brother/sister who followed an identical path in life will by coincidence arrive to avenge them 1d4 rounds after you cross out the old first name on your character sheet and write the new one." Problem solved. (Addendum: "They come bearing a notarised will that states all the dead character's belongings are now theirs.") The idea that death means starting again from L1 when all the other characters are at a considerably higher level is just moronic, especially considering how long it takes to create a new character compared to B/X or 1e.
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Feb 20, 2016 00:12
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Payndz posted:"Your character is dead, but their previously unmentioned twin brother/sister who followed an identical path in life will by coincidence arrive to avenge them 1d4 rounds after you cross out the old first name on your character sheet and write the new one." Problem solved. (Addendum: "They come bearing a notarised will that states all the dead character's belongings are now theirs.") Even in liberal apostate 4E this was an epic destiny.
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Feb 20, 2016 00:14
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Even in liberal apostate 4E this was an epic destiny. All the epic destinies except for a few really lovely ones had a way to cheat death once per day.
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Feb 20, 2016 00:23
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Payndz posted:"Your character is dead, but their previously unmentioned twin brother/sister who followed an identical path in life will by coincidence arrive to avenge them 1d4 rounds after you cross out the old first name on your character sheet and write the new one." Problem solved. (Addendum: "They come bearing a notarised will that states all the dead character's belongings are now theirs.")
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Feb 20, 2016 00:26
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Kurieg posted:All the epic destinies except for a few really lovely ones had a way to cheat death once per day. Yes, but a couple had "your best friend replaces you," which was hilarious. One specifically was "Your best friend replaces you completely if you die, unless you come back to life, at which point he returns to being Robin."
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Feb 20, 2016 00:31
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Yes, but a couple had "your best friend replaces you," which was hilarious. One specifically was "Your best friend replaces you completely if you die, unless you come back to life, at which point he returns to being Robin." Not quite, the one you're thinking of was 'your body double from your giant but at this stage irrelevant (because you're fighting gods and they're still mere mortals) army replaces you'. My favourite one was 'you can literally walk anywhere, you start walking and a day or so later you get there. Including other dimensions, and including 'back from death'.
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Feb 20, 2016 00:33
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I am starting a new arc with my players. If they die a demon will give them the option of going back the prime material on his dime. If they agree I will give them a level in warlock. And now they work for a demon with their souls in the line. I think "Big loving Edward" I'd a good demon name. They can refuse, but it will be their choice so that way it's more fun. Plus I get to play with the narrative in a way that both makes fun of and punishes them for being murder hobos while encouraging it.
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Feb 20, 2016 00:34
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thespaceinvader posted:Not quite, the one you're thinking of was 'your body double from your giant but at this stage irrelevant (because you're fighting gods and they're still mere mortals) army replaces you'. Yea it was basically "you have the biggest fanboy stalker who knows you so well that he becomes you if you die to maintain your legacy."
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Feb 20, 2016 01:08
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Generic Octopus posted:Yea it was basically "you have the biggest fanboy stalker who knows you so well that he becomes you if you die to maintain your legacy." It works best on a kobold character, I find.
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Feb 20, 2016 01:21
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goatface posted:There's a couple of level-1-fucker enemies in there. A specter who does 10 HP-max drain, and kills if you're reduced to 0? A group of 5 shadows that drain 1d4 Str and kill if it hits 0? If the end-boss double hits a guy (for 26 average damage), they're down, unable to make saving throws, and so dead unless the party are killing it this round. There's so much crap here that will one-shot a 1st-2nd level PC if not party-wipe everyone that it's really making me want to run a Punch Dracula adventure that's basically Castlevania just to avenge the poor dumb characters that this module is going to murder. Generic Octopus posted:Yea it was basically "you have the biggest fanboy stalker who knows you so well that he becomes you if you die to maintain your legacy." At that point you where basically cosmic superheroes, so it was more like "Guy Gardner is dead, John Stewart is the new Green Lantern" and the game moves on.
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Feb 20, 2016 01:25
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Crasical posted:There's so much crap here that will one-shot a 1st-2nd level PC if not party-wipe everyone that it's really making me want to run a Punch Dracula adventure that's basically Castlevania just to avenge the poor dumb characters that this module is going to murder. That sounds pretty interesting. Wouldn't mind playing in a Punch Dracula adventure. Actually maybe someone should try running this Ravenloft starter as well. See how badly it turns out. Mostly I want to get in on some 5e games, despite my disappointments with the system I still, mostly, enjoy playing it.
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Feb 20, 2016 01:53
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I'm game: I'm a huge Ravenloft fanboy.
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Feb 20, 2016 02:17
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I know it has been written into some of the homebrewed Fighters that I've seen goons post in here, but I kinda want to see some actual discussion about this: Is part of the fix for Fighters (and/or Rangers, or similar) to just remove features when you MC out of them? Gating cool features to higher levels doesn't seem to have the desired effect, and making everything frontloaded just leads to dipping/poaching. The example I would use is when we tried to make the Champion Fighter "better but still simple," with things like "add double your Prof bonus to any d20 roll that includes your STR mod." It's a boring +math but does make the class flatout statistically better at melee combat (including grapple/shove) than another class can be. If you then say "this bonus only applies if you do not have levels in another class" does this go far enough into make the class good on its own? Probably you would need to apply this to even more features, which would be needed to add onto the class in order to give it comparable narrative agency to a caster, but you get where I'm going. Thoughts?
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Feb 20, 2016 07:55
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P.d0t posted:I know it has been written into some of the homebrewed Fighters that I've seen goons post in here, but I kinda want to see some actual discussion about this: I am constantly amused by the thought that the nerds who made DnD maybe didn't fully appreciate physical prowess. I like that it does give it a nice to RP differentiation. Barbarian for straight up melee and fighter for being real good with their hands. Grappleing, or lassoing, or hauling something like that. I always let my fighters switch up STR, dex and con on rolls. Just narrative it makes more sense someone good at body stuff could find subtle ways to do things. But I might try this nextime.
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Feb 20, 2016 08:24
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P.d0t posted:I know it has been written into some of the homebrewed Fighters that I've seen goons post in here, but I kinda want to see some actual discussion about this: Splicer fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Feb 20, 2016 |
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Feb 20, 2016 13:03
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Splicer posted:I think the point is that Adventurer's league says you start at level 1 if your guy dies. The fact that you don't start at the lowest level of that tier instead is loving retarded.
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Feb 20, 2016 20:44
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I don't think stopping other classes from dipping fighter actually makes fighters better. You need desirable class features at all milestones to do that.
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Feb 20, 2016 21:15
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I think the best way to fix the Fighter is to start by making the all features of the Battle Master Fighter into default Fighter features. Having to take an archetype to get the only unique loving feature of the class is ludicrous. Then, instead of a single pool of Maneuvers you keep picking increasingly lovely leftovers from, you have escalating tiers of Maneuvers. When you pick new Maneuvers at 7th, 10th, 15th, etc., you can pick from higher tiers with cooler and more effective Maneuvers. Archetypes would get access to Archetype-specific Maneuvers on top of the main list--maybe Commandin' Fighter, Fightin' Fighter. and Castin' Fighter. If you want to be lazy with Castin' Fighter, maybe he doesn't get unique Maneuvers does gets a limited Wizard spell list. Finally, as a general 5e-wide improvement, take "Per Short Rest" out back and shoot it in the loving head and just start saying "Per Encounter" like everyone knows it's supposed to mean.
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Feb 20, 2016 22:05
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Solid Jake posted:I think the best way to fix the Fighter is to start by making the all features of the Battle Master Fighter into default Fighter features. Having to take an archetype to get the only unique loving feature of the class is ludicrous. This except also give Fighters (and other Martials) access to non-combat abilities. You know poo poo like... I don't know, "Inspiring Leader: The Fighter gains Advantage on any rolls to inspire others towards a course of action that reflects the Fighter's alignment. Targets inspired in this way gain Advantage on the next ability roll to carry out the suggested course of action. In addition, the Fighter may use this ability during combat as a bonus action, targeting an ally within 30 feet. The affected target immediately gains temporary hit points equal to the 2x the Fighter's level, and they may use their reaction to move up to ten feet. This ability may be used once per encounter."
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Feb 20, 2016 22:17
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Solid Jake posted:I think the best way to fix the Fighter is to start by making the all features of the Battle Master Fighter into default Fighter features. Having to take an archetype to get the only unique loving feature of the class is ludicrous. I dunno. Although I don't share the sentiment, a "simple Fighter" is a legitimate desire so you can't make dice management and maneuvers mandatory for all Fighters. I would absorb most of the Champion into the base class Fighter and then make the following adjustments: * Make the new Champion center around crit-triggered abilities. As it stands the Champion is the one who crits most often, but also has the least reason to want to crit in the first place. (Compare with e.g. Barbarians who get extra damage dice.) Start with extra damage, then move on to taking the Shove or Help action immediately and freely whenever they crit, then later on maybe recharge powers like Indomitable or Second Wind. * Keep Battle Masters as they are, except introduce more and better maneuvers. Eldritch Knights have five tiers of power (cantrips and four spell levels) so the maneuvers ought to follow a similar scheme. * Eldritch Knights need casting like Warlocks, per short rest/encounter. And they need their own, special spell list with plenty of effects like Smite spells or those new cantrips from SCAG instead of lazily being mini-wizards. Ideally they would have a unique cantrip that zaps a guy for a low amount of auto-hitting damage (like a very weak Magic Missile), but they can cast it as a bonus action and also for free whenever they score a critical hit - and remember that all Fighters have improved crit ranges under this scheme. Of course in a perfect world I'd completely overhaul all of 5e from the ground up, but if I were limited to just Fighters then it would look something like that. If I were allowed to go a bit further I would also bake in more extensive follower/henchmen/morale rules and give Fighters the option to be really good at that. Remember how Fighters used to get their own private armies? Maybe an actual army is a bit overkill for a dungeon crawling game but they could use something close to it. Maybe as a fourth subclass called, oh I don't know... Warlord or something? E: More non-combat stuff would also be welcome but I might bake that into the followers/henchmen stuff. Rogues gather information by spying on people, Fighters gather information by setting up a military intelligence division. Sage Genesis fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Feb 20, 2016 |
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Feb 20, 2016 22:26
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Sage Genesis posted:I would also bake in more extensive follower/henchmen/morale rules and give Fighters the option to be really good at that. Remember how Fighters used to get their own private armies? Maybe an actual army is a bit overkill for a dungeon crawling game but they could use something close to it. Maybe as a fourth subclass called, oh I don't know... Warlord or something? "Commander" or "Captain" or something military and take-charge sounding. You get a henchman when you take the archetype at level 3, then another at whatever levels (5, 10, 15, 20?) Attacks targetting henchmen use your defenses and reduce your HP. You still can't be affected twice by any one attack, even if an AoE touches 2 or more of you / your henchmen). Basic abilities (orders) would work like stances. Maybe changing the order is an action. You give all your henchmen an order and they do it until you give them all a different order. You can't have some doing one thing and some doing another at the same time. 1: Battle Formation : "You" occupy your space and (number of henchmen) adjacent spaces. "Your" attacks (and OAs) can happen from any of those spaces. 2: Fight In The Shade : Your henchmen hang back within bowshot. Once on each of your turns, designate a number of spaces equal to the number of henchmen you have. Anything in those spaces takes (some) damage. Your OA can be used on a space not adjacent to you. 3: Shield Wall: Your henchmen occupy a space adjacent to an ally, granting that ally a defense bonus and blocking enemies from moving through that space. They stick with that Ally until you give your henchmen a different order. In a Shield Wall, each henchman can make their own OA, using your to-hit number and doing (something like) half your damage. Then there's a list of in and out of combat stuff you can use your dudes for. e: You could extend this to a Rogue archetype, with different basic abilities? e2 Go with "Soldiers" or something for Fighters instead of Henchmen. Use Henchmen for a rogue's followers. Or homies. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Feb 21, 2016 |
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Feb 20, 2016 23:28
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Solid Jake posted:Finally, as a general 5e-wide improvement, take "Per Short Rest" out back and shoot it in the loving head and just start saying "Per Encounter" like everyone knows it's supposed to mean. THIS. Besides fixing a lot of class problems, it would make playing a Bladesinger even more ridiculous. Savidudeosoo fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Feb 21, 2016 |
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Feb 21, 2016 00:20
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The real issue is that fighters are mechanically disempowered. Consider the old joke about a kid with a gun. If in real life you could stabed guy with a knife four or five times he'd bleed out after a short rest, not recover a few hit die.
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Feb 21, 2016 01:43
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Sage Genesis posted:* Make the new Champion center around crit-triggered abilities. As it stands the Champion is the one who crits most often, but also has the least reason to want to crit in the first place. (Compare with e.g. Barbarians who get extra damage dice.) Start with extra damage, then move on to taking the Shove or Help action immediately and freely whenever they crit, then later on maybe recharge powers like Indomitable or Second Wind. Don't base it around crits, they don't happen often enough to matter even if the campaign lasts long enough for the Champ to get its extended range. If you want to make a simple fighter, Mearl's only has to looks as far as his own contribution to 4e, Essentials, and give them some stances they can toggle to enhance their basic attacks/improve defenses & saves/allow access to new reactions/etc.
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Feb 21, 2016 02:25
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Extend your crit range by your level in fighter minus one. A level 20 legendary fighter *always* hits his enemy in the vitals with his sword on account of being a guy whose ability to hit things with a sword is legendary.
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Feb 21, 2016 04:22
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Generic Octopus posted:Don't base it around crits, they don't happen often enough to matter even if the campaign lasts long enough for the Champ to get its extended range. If you want to make a simple fighter, Mearl's only has to looks as far as his own contribution to 4e, Essentials, and give them some stances they can toggle to enhance their basic attacks/improve defenses & saves/allow access to new reactions/etc. You can tweak the crit rates to make it work. Stances would be better but not if the goal is explicitly a subclass for those people who just want to roll dice and don't make any decisions about powers and abilities. It's not my cup of tea, but that was the goal. Possibly you can season it with a bit of 13th Age, introducing a few other effects which depend on the die roll but not just crits.
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Feb 21, 2016 10:42
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So it turns out that a level 4 Half-Orc Barbarian is not as good at fist fighting as a level 6 NPC Goliath Monk. Learn something every session.
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Feb 21, 2016 12:10
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Hello, was just wondering something. I am currently playing an Arcane Trickster Rogue and our group has just hit level 4. Now I have been given the choice of +2 to any attribute, +1 to two attributes or an extra feat. Now considering my char is: STR: 12, DEX: 14, CON: 14,. WIS: 11, CHA: 10 . I went with a noble background and my focus is mainly investigation and perception . I am not quite sure where I want to go but would I be harming myself if I didn't take the stat increase? I mean it feels nice but an extra feat sounds immensely appealing too. I have been mainly using a bow and I've been using the spells of Colour Spray & Burning Hands.
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Feb 21, 2016 15:28
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What's your int?
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Feb 21, 2016 15:37
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Splicer posted:What's your int? Sorry, my INT is 14. I picked Alert and Dungeon Delver as my initial feats.
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Feb 21, 2016 15:53
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What do you mean your initial feats? What feat were you planning to grab? Why is your Dex only a 14? If you focus on Perception your Wis is a bit low, your Dex is a bit low for using a bow or dex based weapon, and your Int is a bit low for casting spells like Colour Spray and Burning Hands, though a 16 Int would only effect the DC by 1.
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Feb 21, 2016 18:01
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Ryuujin posted:What do you mean your initial feats? What feat were you planning to grab? Why is your Dex only a 14? If you focus on Perception your Wis is a bit low, your Dex is a bit low for using a bow or dex based weapon, and your Int is a bit low for casting spells like Colour Spray and Burning Hands, though a 16 Int would only effect the DC by 1. I picked Alert and Dungeon Delver. Roll wise I think it was the standard system where you roll four 6-sided dice etc. None of the feats in the handbook are really that appealing so I'm just on the verge of picking +2 to DEX or INT.
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Feb 21, 2016 18:10
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SkySteak posted:I picked Alert and Dungeon Delver. Roll wise I think it was the standard system where you roll four 6-sided dice etc. None of the feats in the handbook are really that appealing so I'm just on the verge of picking +2 to DEX or INT. Compared to being 5% better on nearly everything you attempt to do, feats have to be extremely good to justify picking them.
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Feb 21, 2016 18:12
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How did you pick Alert and Dungeon Delver was what I meant. Unless you are a Variant Human, which should only have 1 feat, you should have no feats before fourth level. Is this a houserule? Also standard stat generation is point buy, not roll 4d6 drop the lowest.
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Feb 21, 2016 18:14
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Ryuujin posted:How did you pick Alert and Dungeon Delver was what I meant. Unless you are a Variant Human, which should only have 1 feat, you should have no feats before fourth level. Is this a houserule? Also standard stat generation is point buy, not roll 4d6 drop the lowest. House Rule that we could all pick one feat+Variant Human character. Also I understand Impact and I feel that I'm probably going to go with +2 in DEX, bringing it up to 16.
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Feb 21, 2016 18:25
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There was some discussion on how levels 1-2 suck earlier, but I'm currently having my players run through them to what I think is good effect. We're basically blitzing through them, and I'm using them to sort of introduce the players to my homebrew adventure. Setting up the world a little bit and introducing events/npcs. Small encounters to let the players get the hang of how the math works. It's funny, though, because it's also highlighting why low levels suck. Nothing about the system right now is why these sessions are good. It's completely because I'm allowing them to be involved in the backstory before poo poo hits the fan vs. me telling them what happened up until the point where the real campaign starts. Everyone is enjoying it, but in the future, I'm going to start everyone at level 3 and probably just have a singular roleplay-heavy session to kick the campaign off.
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Feb 21, 2016 20:40
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Ryuujin posted:What do you mean your initial feats? What feat were you planning to grab? Why is your Dex only a 14? If you focus on Perception your Wis is a bit low, your Dex is a bit low for using a bow or dex based weapon, and your Int is a bit low for casting spells like Colour Spray and Burning Hands, though a 16 Int would only effect the DC by 1. Yeah, that stat block is pretty horrible for what you're trying to achieve. Or just in general, really. Maybe it's just the min-maxer in me, but I would have gone with High Elf for my race so that I could get a bonus to my two most important stats. a harpy posted:There was some discussion on how levels 1-2 suck earlier, but I'm currently having my players run through them to what I think is good effect. We're basically blitzing through them, and I'm using them to sort of introduce the players to my homebrew adventure. Setting up the world a little bit and introducing events/npcs. Small encounters to let the players get the hang of how the math works. Dude, props to you for that idea. It's pretty brilliant.
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Feb 22, 2016 00:47
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a harpy posted:There was some discussion on how levels 1-2 suck earlier, but I'm currently having my players run through them to what I think is good effect. We're basically blitzing through them, and I'm using them to sort of introduce the players to my homebrew adventure. Setting up the world a little bit and introducing events/npcs. Small encounters to let the players get the hang of how the math works. That's sort of how I treated levels 1/2 when I ran 5e. I was basically asked at the last minute to run 5e because our regular GM for it had to move, so I said gently caress and decided to do "RNG-World" and used a recommended leveling system from somewhere in the DMG (a level a session until 4th, then a level every other session) for progression. I randomly generated a world, and the first session had the party introduced to that world and their characters existence defining things about the world. First level thus was an introduction to the city and the one rng'd quest on offer by the city. And the second level was an introduction to their characters in combat with the first couple meaty combat and rp sessions. If I were to ever run 5e again (which I pray never to), I plan on using a system similar to that, because it works with both experienced players and newbies to the system since it is more about how the world is affected by their existence and shaking things down.
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Feb 22, 2016 01:28
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Savidudeosoo posted:Dude, props to you for that idea. It's pretty brilliant. It was actually a lot of fun to see things like the bard using minor illusion to scare an orc out of hiding, or the druid using their quarterstaff to shoo a grey ooze away, or have them explore an old ritual ground like a tactical squad after a single orc downed the monk in one attack. The highlight was the druid diffusing a supposed ambush by a swarm of rats using Speak with Animals. They ended up learning about all the hidden goodies in the dungeon from the rats, as well as how many people were in the dungeon. I even tested their motives by having them encounter an unarmed orc. They ended up giving him a mug of ale and sending him on his way. Everyone loved it, and it allowed all the first-time players to learn what a proficiency bonus is or how modifiers matter without them having to also be making tactical decisions at the same time. Overall we had a really insightful run. They got to experience death saving throws first hand to get familiar with the mechanics, and the bard ended up writing a rather hilarious ballad about their triumph, earning her an inspiration point, allowing us to test that mechanic too. They'll always have the story of an orc critting his wisdom save against Viscious Mockery, where the bard called him ugly and his only response was, "So what?" They've all been hired to break a man out of prison in a city about a week's travel away, and I plan to get them to level 3 right as they enter that town so I can start to have some pretty serious plot happen. Right now, to go from 2 to 3, they're going to find a noble at a nearby cleric hall that can write them a letter of permission for express access to the city. The players are getting along really well, and it's pretty promising that we'll be able to move outside of D&D without any hitches and play a large variety of TRPGs. opulent fountain fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 06:53
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a harpy posted:The players are getting along really well, and it's pretty promising that we'll be able to move outside of D&D without any hitches and play a large variety of TRPGs. That's always the jackpot, getting a group together that'll last through many different systems. Do you mind giving the rundown on the party's composition?
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Feb 22, 2016 07:45
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