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peak debt posted:If your dps can't keep up with the adds you need to get people that don't suck It just asks you if you want to restart it iirc. If you've got that many you probably didnt kill the first 2 avatars quick enough or your dudes just suck. Get more psi troopers and mind contol andromedons and have your own personal meat shields and sometimes shoots where you want them too.
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Feb 22, 2016 11:48
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Ramadu posted:It just asks you if you want to restart it iirc. If you've got that many you probably didnt kill the first 2 avatars quick enough or your dudes just suck. Get more psi troopers and mind contol andromedons and have your own personal meat shields and sometimes shoots where you want them too. Overall I had fun, but the game still feels like a bummer. There's so much potential for it to be one of the all-time best strategy/tactical games, but the bugs and some really bizarre design decisions made it a ton more frustrating than it should be (and not even from a difficulty perspective). I'd like to do another playthrough on Commander+, but I think I'll wait for a better patch and maybe a few more quality-of-life mods.
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Feb 22, 2016 11:59
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A gatekeeper hit my team with its aoe zap/zombifier bomb. One member of my team died, came back as a zombie. THEN THE ZOMBIE PANICED AND SPLIT INTO TWO ONE BEING UNDER MY CONTROL AND THE OTHER BEING A ZOMBIE  AND THEY WERE BOTH WEARING CHICKEN MASKS
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Feb 22, 2016 12:09
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peak debt posted:If your dps can't keep up with the adds you need to get people that don't suck Yeah, you're turtling too much if you end up irretrievably outnumbered, at that stage of the game the only thing that should be stopping you from wiping 1-2 pods per turn is they're out of range, so close and engage. Maxed out psi troops have massive range on some abilities too though so you don't have to play particularly risky, just aggressively take ground with the blue move and murder pods with the gold.
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Feb 22, 2016 12:11
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I haven't messed with any game balance mods yet, but I am starting to be a curious on tweaking the difficulty curve. How most of my games end is that I have some bad luck and have my best people wounded, and then important missions pop up where I have to try to complete them with people better than squaddies. I do wish the game would soften the difficulty on missions a bit based on my highest ranking available soldier or something. It's all personal preference, but it's the one feedback loop in this game that I don't find as enjoyable, since it's incredibly negative. (And I say that as someone that just loves playing ironman and cringing as I lose people.)
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Feb 22, 2016 13:17
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You also really, really want to dominate the gatekeepers before you get to that area. Try not to use any classes have have consumables for the last mission (basically, grenadiers are loving poo poo for that mission because of the sheet amount of enemies).
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Feb 22, 2016 13:18
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dogstile posted:You also really, really want to dominate the gatekeepers before you get to that area. Try not to use any classes have have consumables for the last mission (basically, grenadiers are loving poo poo for that mission because of the sheet amount of enemies). Jesus, gently caress no. Take Grenadiers, ensure they got Volatile Mix, pack Proximity Mines, and you got dudes that can gently caress up a reinforcement wave on their lonesome.
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Feb 22, 2016 13:38
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Volatile Mix proxies are ludicrous, they are doubly ludicrous in concealment.
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Feb 22, 2016 13:58
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Mrit posted:Well, sorta. I have to trace the path of my soldier if he is running parallel to the alien and its a hassle and not always correct. I've yet to find it to be wrong assuming i have LOS to all aliens and I use way points. You can use waypoints by the way. It's pretty great.
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Feb 22, 2016 14:05
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Affi posted:That doomsday clock is stressful as hell. The trick is that you can game the doomsday clock like crazy (at least until they patch it). Once it maxes out, you'll have 14-21 days (depending on your difficulty level) before you actually lose. If you can assault a facility or do a story mission (like the Alien Blacksite you've probably been nagged by Bradford to do), you'll stop the countdown and knock a pip or two off of the Avatar Project counter. As long as you always make sure you have a story mission or alien facility available, you never really have to worry that much about it. That said, it can jump ahead faster than you might expect. It gained four pips in about five in-game days in my Commander campaign and I had to scramble to make contact with a region to assault a facility immediately. I really wasn't expecting that.
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Feb 22, 2016 14:08
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Operation: Dismal Engine its becoming aware
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Feb 22, 2016 14:26
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Mind controlling an Andromedon is pretty much a "push-to-win" button. Also it's pretty great when you've got an Andromedon, throw insanity on someone else, and MC them as well.
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Feb 22, 2016 14:38
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Orgophlax posted:Mind controlling an Andromedon is pretty much a "push-to-win" button. I was grinning like an idiot when I've revealed a pod with a Lancer, a Trooper and a Sectopod with my pet Andro, got the Sectopod hacked and MC-d the Lancer via Insanity. Imagining how that motherfucker in the black armor felt seeing all his friends charge at him was goddamn rewarding.
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Feb 22, 2016 14:44
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I've grown to like to use the first Blacksite (where you get the mystery vial) as the first thing to knock down the avatar timer, because an early shadow chamber is incredibly useful. Knowing enemy composition lets you tailor your loadout (gas for biologicals, acid and AP for armoured, bluescreen for MECs and Codexes, medkits for Vipers, dominators for Andromedons, incendiaries and 'nade spam for Archons). Knowing enemy numbers also helps you plan out your approach, you can kind of make educated guesses on the distance between packs depending on when you first meet them. Once the first blacksite is down, you should be in a good position intel and radio tower wise to expand towards the Facilities with the most pips.
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Feb 22, 2016 14:48
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Jim DiGriz posted:I was grinning like an idiot when I've revealed a pod with a Lancer, a Trooper and a Sectopod with my pet Andro, got the Sectopod hacked and MC-d the Lancer via Insanity. Imagining how that motherfucker in the black armor felt seeing all his friends charge at him was goddamn rewarding. When I did the Forge mission, the first pod I encountered with my Specialist and Psi Operative on the team was an Andromedan and a Sectopod. They then wrecked face for me through over half the map.
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Feb 22, 2016 15:03
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toasterwarrior posted:Jesus, gently caress no. Take Grenadiers, ensure they got Volatile Mix, pack Proximity Mines, and you got dudes that can gently caress up a reinforcement wave on their lonesome. Yeah this was fine for three waves then he became pseudo useless and the last fight is a slog that will take more than three turns. Take more psi/shotgun rangers/heavy gunners/specialists instead. Also a sniper with bluescreen rounds to make codex waves trivial.
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Feb 22, 2016 15:03
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Anyone else finding implacable to be buggy?
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Feb 22, 2016 15:07
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dogstile posted:Yeah this was fine for three waves then he became pseudo useless and the last fight is a slog that will take more than three turns. Grenadier is the most useless class for final mission, you could just skip them entirely, it's an endurance run, but after spending the grenades they're just infantry with poo poo aim.
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Feb 22, 2016 15:19
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Affi posted:Anyone else finding implacable to be buggy? Define buggy? I do know that if you try to reflexively hotkey-overwatch or reload with the Implacable move you're going to get stuck.
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Feb 22, 2016 15:20
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That's why you take more than one Grenadier, two will clean house on adds and the rest of your squad can murder the big bads. Hell, dump Proximity Mines on them too: IIRC, multiple mines can pop before they do their teleport-away bullshit on hit, so in an emergency you can alpha-strike one and any idiot stupid enough to stand beside him as long as you got Salvo (you should have Salvo).
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Feb 22, 2016 15:27
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SynthOrange posted:A gatekeeper hit my team with its aoe zap/zombifier bomb. One member of my team died, came back as a zombie. Gotta get a grip! 
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Feb 22, 2016 15:35
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toasterwarrior posted:That's why you take more than one Grenadier, two will clean house on adds and the rest of your squad can murder the big bads. Hell, dump Proximity Mines on them too: IIRC, multiple mines can pop before they do their teleport-away bullshit on hit, so in an emergency you can alpha-strike one and any idiot stupid enough to stand beside him as long as you got Salvo (you should have Salvo). They will still be infantry with poo poo aim. So you take two, that means you're down two actual useful classes for the rest of the mission (because you can't use their consumables). If you alpha strike (and get close enough to do so) you are using half your nade load on just one avatar. This also means you aren't using them to deal with reinforcements, which is why you said to take them earlier. Instead, I could take a sniper with the AOE overwatch (which will wipe out most pods), a gunslinger, a shotgun ranger for continuous double tapping, psi troopers who ignore armour and status scary enemies and medics with aid protocol, which is a loving godsend. Every single one of these classes is better at a sustained firefight, which is what's going to happen unless you happen to get the perfect mission where absolutely nothing goes wrong. This isn't even touching the value of dominated units and meme beacons for when that sniper needs a second to reload.
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Feb 22, 2016 15:36
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Pyromancer posted:Grenadier is the most useless class for final mission, you could just skip them entirely, it's an endurance run, but after spending the grenades they're just infantry with poo poo aim. You shouldn't be spending any grenades before the last room though. Having three plasma grenades to clear out cover, set up Serial chains and cause an Avatar teleport when one of them hides in a particularly annoying place is great. Also Shredder is a great ability too, it strips three armor when used with a Plasma chaingun.
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Feb 22, 2016 15:45
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How much will does a soldier gain from recovering from being shaken? I managed to pull off a flawless mission by having a phantom ranger Big Boss his way behind lines, snatching the item, then pincering the entire alien force. Had three soldiers recover in one mission 
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Feb 22, 2016 15:48
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In fairness, I take those dudes too, except for the psi trooper and gunslinger. I'm not advocating something crazy like 3 or more Grenadiers, but 2 was the sweet spot for me on that final mission, where being able to annihilate a pod with one consumable and shooting stretched all the way to the end (had one left for the final spawn but I just went for the kill) and made several mandatory reinforcement waves a breeze. Out of all the standard classes, only the Kill Zone/Serial sniper has the ability to wreck pods like a pimped-out proximity mine can, and waves come too quickly for them to be off cooldown every time you need a wipe.
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Feb 22, 2016 15:54
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Early on in my 2nd Commander playthrough. Sniper getting promoted to Sergeant just got Shredder. I AM GOING TO LIVE THE DREAM.
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Feb 22, 2016 15:57
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peak debt posted:You shouldn't be spending any grenades before the last room though. Having three plasma grenades to clear out cover, set up Serial chains and cause an Avatar teleport when one of them hides in a particularly annoying place is great. Also Shredder is a great ability too, it strips three armor when used with a Plasma chaingun. Then you're still using an infantry with poo poo aim all the way to final room. Limited use items and abilities just aren't as good in a mission that's 4 times bigger than regular ones.
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Feb 22, 2016 15:58
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Dogen posted:Early on in my 2nd Commander playthrough. Sniper getting promoted to Sergeant just got Shredder. I AM GOING TO LIVE THE DREAM. My condolences in advance for when they die due to bullshit on the next outing
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Feb 22, 2016 16:03
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Pyromancer posted:Then you're still using an infantry with poo poo aim all the way to final room. Limited use items and abilities just aren't as good in a mission that's 4 times bigger than regular ones. The final level is fairly straightforward aside from that final room, really. Your avatar could probably solo it.
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Feb 22, 2016 16:06
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toasterwarrior posted:In fairness, I take those dudes too, except for the psi trooper and gunslinger. I'm not advocating something crazy like 3 or more Grenadiers, but 2 was the sweet spot for me on that final mission, where being able to annihilate a pod with one consumable and shooting stretched all the way to the end (had one left for the final spawn but I just went for the kill) and made several mandatory reinforcement waves a breeze. Out of all the standard classes, only the Kill Zone/Serial sniper has the ability to wreck pods like a pimped-out proximity mine can, and waves come too quickly for them to be off cooldown every time you need a wipe. Thats fine, I tried two the first time I did the mission and I ran into problems because while I could take out pods, I had some lovely loving luck with avatar teleporting and the fight took me a good 15 turns to deal with. Granted I didn't realise the mind control was temporary and a loving gatekeeper turned on me halfway through, but i digress.
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Feb 22, 2016 16:07
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Danaru posted:My condolences in advance for when they die due to bullshit on the next outing Given my track record with snipers so far, this reeks depressingly of accurate forecast.
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Feb 22, 2016 16:08
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Dogen posted:Given my track record with snipers so far, this reeks depressingly of accurate forecast. OOooh, important question, does a sniper with Shredder shred armor with the pistol too?
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Feb 22, 2016 16:10
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Speedball posted:OOooh, important question, does a sniper with Shredder shred armor with the pistol too? Sniper with holo targeting only proced it with the rifle, so probably not.
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Feb 22, 2016 16:17
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Pyromancer posted:Then you're still using an infantry with poo poo aim all the way to final room. Limited use items and abilities just aren't as good in a mission that's 4 times bigger than regular ones. Speedball posted:OOooh, important question, does a sniper with Shredder shred armor with the pistol too?
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Feb 22, 2016 16:19
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I'll vouch for scopes and aim PCSes being ridiculous for gunner Grenadiers. I got a pair of advanced upgrades for my SGT Grenadier right now, and he's basically a frontline sniper. Can't wait to put Saturation Fire on him and see the results, even if he sets himself on fire.
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Feb 22, 2016 16:31
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I'm never going to see an aim pcs in this game. Or AP rounds. 
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Feb 22, 2016 16:34
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toasterwarrior posted:I'll vouch for scopes and aim PCSes being ridiculous for gunner Grenadiers. I got a pair of advanced upgrades for my SGT Grenadier right now, and he's basically a frontline sniper. Can't wait to put Saturation Fire on him and see the results, even if he sets himself on fire. Make his second item a hazmat.
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Feb 22, 2016 16:34
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dogstile posted:Make his second item a hazmat. Finally, a use for the experimental armors 
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Feb 22, 2016 16:35
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RBA Starblade posted:I'm never going to see an aim pcs in this game. Or AP rounds. I just finished my initial veteran run and I didn't see a single aim PCS or tracer rounds. Unrelated, but are the armor vests ever really worth building? I guess the hellweave might potentially be handy against chrysalids, but it just seems like there are almost always better uses for the items slot.
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Feb 22, 2016 16:37
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toasterwarrior posted:Finally, a use for the experimental armors If you ever feel like having a "gently caress it" runthrough and actually using a blademaster ranger, give him a hazmat suit + aim pcs, open up on a pack of chrysalids with a fire grenade and watch as he becomes a scarily broken fire demon. Hulk Krogan posted:I just finished my initial veteran run and I didn't see a single aim PCS or tracer rounds. "The Stasis Vest provides 2 health to the wearer as well as regenerating 2 health per turn to a maximum of 8 health per mission.". I can see this being pretty handy.
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Feb 22, 2016 16:39
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