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Baronjutter posted:Allied planets has one planet, their name is a bit optimistic I guess. I've wanted this mechanic for Switzerland in EU4 for a while. It would be pretty fun for it to be a federation of cantons that essentially can't expand due to bickering and rotating presidency but which is also very hard to attack due to each canton being surprisingly powerful when mobilized.
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Feb 22, 2016 20:40
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I know there won't be mechanics for it, but I wish I could annex smaller factions and break apart big empires by playing as a race of shapeshifters and replacing key leaders with doppelgangers. I really just want a moment where I can imagine the horror of an entire planet as their dashing and beloved federation president orders the fleet standing guard to another sector, leaving a clear path for my encroaching invasion craft.
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Feb 22, 2016 20:42
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Arrath posted:Well, maybe not quite to that degree but I think it's an intriguing idea. Like with a Federation, that isn't just a little treaty you sign saying "yeah I'll maybe help you out in a war", it's some fairly in depth integration of societies and administrative functions. Breaking away from that seems like it should be a little troublesome, causing problems with the government for a while, maybe triggering some loyalist groups that want to stay in the Federation, that kinda thing.
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Feb 22, 2016 20:50
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Dibujante posted:I've wanted this mechanic for Switzerland in EU4 for a while. It would be pretty fun for it to be a federation of cantons that essentially can't expand due to bickering and rotating presidency but which is also very hard to attack due to each canton being surprisingly powerful when mobilized. Now you mention it, I'm suddenly excited for all the features from Stellaris that'll get back-ported into EU4. They did a bunch of that for CK2 didn't they?
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Feb 22, 2016 20:51
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popewiles posted:I know there won't be mechanics for it, but I wish I could annex smaller factions and break apart big empires by playing as a race of shapeshifters and replacing key leaders with doppelgangers. Star Trek modders' wet dream.
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Feb 22, 2016 21:00
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They're going to have to put in some sort of Federation internal politics. It's going to be awfully hard to convince players to give up control of their foreign policy 3/4 of the time. It's like a semi permanent opt in regency council. Oh boy! 
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Feb 22, 2016 22:07
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Fintilgin posted:They're going to have to put in some sort of Federation internal politics. It's going to be awfully hard to convince players to give up control of their foreign policy 3/4 of the time. if it makes it more viable to play small, focused civilizations it might be worth it. This kind of mechanic in EU4 would definitely get used by most players doing OPM starts.
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Feb 22, 2016 22:09
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From one of Doomdark's responses in the Paradox forums it sounds like while they won't be taking the concept further before the game is released they are leaving the door open to future refinement. May be reading too much into the respone though. Maybe they're going to see how people react to it first before throwing more resources at what would likely be a fairly complex problem to solve if they were to introduce a whole new layer of internal politics? As it currently stands it doesn't seem like a thing a human player would use with a bunch of AI empires - in the example shown the player is giving up control of their empire for up to 15 years at a time... who would want to do that?
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Feb 22, 2016 22:22
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Psychotic Weasel posted:From one of Doomdark's responses in the Paradox forums it sounds like while they won't be taking the concept further before the game is released they are leaving the door open to future refinement. It depends on whether or not the peacetime game is engaging. I could definitely see piggybacking off of a federation while I built my empire up internally. In any case, I am confident in Paradox' mechanic design, but even more confident that they will recognize what works and what doesn't and iterate on it.
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Feb 22, 2016 22:34
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Psychotic Weasel posted:From one of Doomdark's responses in the Paradox forums it sounds like while they won't be taking the concept further before the game is released they are leaving the door open to future refinement. I agree with Dibujante that it may be something that smaller players may need or want to do depending on what kind of game they are playing or the situation they are in. If the game is sufficiently balanced that the AI is a threat over the course of the whole game (rather than until you hit a certain point like in EU4), joining a federation may be more appealing.
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Feb 22, 2016 23:01
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I could imagine joining a federation as is if the late game invasions are actually a dire threat. It'd be a compelling choice if I had to give up sovereignty in order to not be left out on my own against a huge enemy.
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Feb 22, 2016 23:12
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If some of the late-game scenarios are real doomsday scenarios then the federation may be the only chance at survival, which would be amazing. Imagine a bunch of AI who all hate each other forced into a federation.
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Feb 22, 2016 23:17
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Even if the realpolitik reasons to join a federation are lackluster, noones mentioned the most important reason to join one yet: for the achievements.
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Feb 22, 2016 23:24
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Danann posted:A fun option would be to have them go rogue and go take over a nearby system or two and create a new nation out of that. Give them massive tech boosts and casus belli on all former nations belonging to the Federation and you've got an interesting midgame scenario. Maybe have them change governments, too. So basically what I'm saying is let them go Clanner as gently caress on us and that would be amazing.
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Feb 22, 2016 23:34
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Tuskin38 posted:If there was it wouldn't be allowed on the PDox forums. I figured it was more like, if there are aliens around, they'd better be slaves, not equals. But if there aren't any, xenophobes wouldn't really want you to import them.
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Feb 23, 2016 00:04
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Having alien slaves around reminds you how you are superior to them and also probably makes your life easier because they can do work which would otherwise have to be paid for, or perhaps is highly dangerous or unpleasant. I mean I'm pretty sure a lot of white plantation owners supported bringing more black slaves into the southern US while also being racist.
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Feb 23, 2016 00:50
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Xenophobic in the context of alien lifeforms seems more like a simple "don't want them around" than it does a full analogue to racism. Wanting to round up beings from somewhere to work in the mines strikes me as an expression of materialism, rather than xenophobia. Like, even in your analogy, while the wealthy plantation owners may have wanted that, the poorer whites probably did not, even though they would have shared roughly the same racial politics.
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Feb 23, 2016 01:06
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Eh the poorer white were fine with it because they sure as poo poo didn't want to do plantation labor.
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Feb 23, 2016 01:09
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https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/699986655806169088 https://twitter.com/dril/status/384408932061417472
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Feb 23, 2016 01:12
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It looks like they have a phaser rifle project that has gone full F-35 in terms of boondogglement. 
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Feb 23, 2016 01:17
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That wint guy has it backwards though, the AI is actually spending 4.081 on it's army. A very tiny amount.
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Feb 23, 2016 01:21
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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CharlestheHammer posted:Eh the poorer white were fine with it because they sure as poo poo didn't want to do plantation labor. Mind you, this doesn't necessarily tell us what the actual opinions were on the subject. It's actually kind of an interesting question. I'm going to poke around on google, see if I can find anything illuminating.
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Feb 23, 2016 03:26
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PittTheElder posted:That wint guy has it backwards though, the AI is actually spending 4.081 on it's army. A very tiny amount. Unless, hypothetically, the game is using Swedish notation...? (not recommended)
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Feb 23, 2016 04:23
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It's interesting that space game can have genocides and slavery because it's a fantasy setting, no specific historical crimes against humanity to anger anyone.
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Feb 23, 2016 04:28
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Baronjutter posted:It's interesting that space game can have genocides and slavery because it's a fantasy setting, no specific historical crimes against humanity to anger anyone. It's more no specific European laws to break.
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Feb 23, 2016 04:28
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PleasingFungus posted:Unless, hypothetically, the game is using Swedish notation...? (not recommended) No, because the total wouldn't add up were that the case.
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Feb 23, 2016 04:29
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Strudel Man posted:They wouldn't be doing the plantation labor, though, surely. A lack of slaves would have hindered the plantation owners, not forced small-scale white farmers onto the plantations themselves. Depending on the economy yeah they would. Places like the south and Haitians whole economy rested on that poo poo. Plus plantations had jobs low class whites could do that wasn't the labor force. Mainly administrative.
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Feb 23, 2016 05:07
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PittTheElder posted:No, because the total wouldn't add up were that the case. Oh, I didn't see the total. Curses...
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Feb 23, 2016 05:13
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Kavak posted:It's more no specific European laws to break. Day 1: Someone mods in the star of David as a possible banner emblem. Day 2: Hilarity ensues.
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Feb 23, 2016 05:14
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CharlestheHammer posted:Eh the poorer white were fine with it because they sure as poo poo didn't want to do plantation labor. If it paid well, I'm sure they would. People worked in pretty awful mills in the north.
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Feb 23, 2016 05:35
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I can't wait to make this my flag: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqQ-6mEbyu4
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Feb 23, 2016 06:44
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Strudel Man posted:They wouldn't be doing the plantation labor, though, surely. A lack of slaves would have hindered the plantation owners, not forced small-scale white farmers onto the plantations themselves. This isn't my field of study but my understanding was that poor southern whites were generally pro-slavery, because this meant that they weren't at the very bottom of the social hierarchy. It was a self-destructive vice.
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Feb 23, 2016 07:51
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Dibujante posted:This isn't my field of study but my understanding was that poor southern whites were generally pro-slavery, because this meant that they weren't at the very bottom of the social hierarchy. It was a self-destructive vice. CharlestheHammer posted:Depending on the economy yeah they would. Places like the south and Haitians whole economy rested on that poo poo. Plus plantations had jobs low class whites could do that wasn't the labor force. Mainly administrative. Or I suppose, in our counterfactual, the system doesn't get established in the first place.
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Feb 23, 2016 09:40
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Koramei posted:Now you mention it, I'm suddenly excited for all the features from Stellaris that'll get back-ported into EU4. They did a bunch of that for CK2 didn't they? For sure, can't wait for the robot uprising.
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Feb 23, 2016 11:09
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That's better saved for Rome 2.
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Feb 23, 2016 11:17
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Black Griffon posted:For sure, can't wait for the robot uprising. 
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Feb 23, 2016 11:17
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Strudel Man posted:Xenophobic in the context of alien lifeforms seems more like a simple "don't want them around" than it does a full analogue to racism. Wanting to round up beings from somewhere to work in the mines strikes me as an expression of materialism, rather than xenophobia. My race had a trait that made them want slaves but didn't like enslaving their own. Xenophobia can mean different things depending on the traits and ethoses it's combined with.
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Feb 23, 2016 11:35
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Wiz posted:My race had a trait that made them want slaves but didn't like enslaving their own. Xenophobia can mean different things depending on the traits and ethoses it's combined with. That's pretty cool. Is there a point pre-release where you guys would consider releasing a full government and ethos list for us to wildly speculate about?
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Feb 23, 2016 11:48
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I want the Space Rome government where you enslave alien races but 50 years down the line they are the same as your starting race trait-wise, just with different portraits.
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Feb 23, 2016 14:15
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Strudel Man posted:That's better saved for Rome 2. You kept your redtext all these years just to make that one joke, didn't you? 
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Feb 23, 2016 16:05
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