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field balm posted:Having said that, anyone know a shop in Brisbane Australia that will give me cash? I dont mind taking like 2/3 of the value if its fast. Good luck with that. You're lucky to get 50% in my experience, especially cash. Your best bet is like a GP or something but I can't imagine there's a ton of them around you.
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Feb 24, 2016 05:19
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rabidsquid posted:Five color Mystical Teachings, look at some Pauper 8post decks from the past to get an idea. Thanks for that, I checked both out but I think in a singleton format there's just not going to be much consistency (I suppose that's the point) and I'm not sure how the deck would sit without four-ofs. Mystical Teachings definitely seems like a good choice as a single card though, especially since I'm considering running a UR goodstuff/burn deck at this point. field balm posted:Yeah this one of the places I went. Rude staffer and basically 0 stock, no odea why they bother. It's a real shame when that happens. Town Hall and Chatswood in Sydney both have excellent staff and great stock. Central is pretty good too, but the regulars can be a bit more competitive, and just a little more standoffish in general. Across those three stores, the staff are all pretty brilliant.
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Feb 24, 2016 05:21
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anglachel posted:Actually the original art had each of the Warchiefs wear their Colors Mox (I guess to explain the cost reduction they provided). It was still generic as gently caress though. I never noticed this before. 
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Feb 24, 2016 05:24
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anglachel posted:Actually the original art had each of the Warchiefs wear their Colors Mox  how did i not notice that?!
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Feb 24, 2016 05:25
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anglachel posted:Actually the original art had each of the Warchiefs wear their Colors Mox (I guess to explain the cost reduction they provided). It was still generic as gently caress though.  Was that ever in an Arcana or anything, because that seems like the sort of thing they'd do there but I can't remember ever having seen it
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Feb 24, 2016 05:31
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Gridlocked posted:Really surprised they never got reported to WotC for running rare redrafts at what should be sanctioned events like FNM. This was like 3-4 years ago mind so maybe they changed. Rare redrafts can be sanctioned. The rares are considered "tournament materials" and if a player leaves a tournament with them, even if they drop, they can be disqualified. There is a huge gap between what the WPN tells stores they can or can't do and what judges are told can or can't be done at tournaments. The problem is that Wizards is unwilling to put themselves in the middle of the relationship between players and their clients because they are afraid to expose themselves to potential legal ramifications, not the least of which are taxes and regulation as a sport or, heaven forbid, gambling. It feels like judges needs to have a bit of a savior complex in order to justify the sort of hoops they jump through in order to have a non-lovely local scene or fair compensation. You can be a great, friendly, by the book judge and suffer because TOs either don't know or don't care what the MTR or IPG says. I saw a good working relationship between a TO and one of the most personable judges in the region fall apart because there was a new player at FNM who potentially cheated. The judge investigated and decided it was unintentional, but suggested to the TO that a DQ was a very real possibility if that sort of thing happened in the future. The TO didn't want to lose potential new customers (or new Magic players for that matter) and said he wouldn't have let him enter the DQ even though the judge was in as head judge at the event.
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Feb 24, 2016 05:32
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Emerson Cod posted:Rare redrafts can be sanctioned. The rares are considered "tournament materials" and if a player leaves a tournament with them, even if they drop, they can be disqualified. There is a huge gap between what the WPN tells stores they can or can't do and what judges are told can or can't be done at tournaments. This is in fact quite wrong. This is from section 2.10 of the Magic Tournament Rules: "Players who drop during limited events own the cards that they correctly have in their possession at that time. This includes any unopened or partially drafted boosters."
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Feb 24, 2016 05:43
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Emerson Cod posted:Rare redrafts can be sanctioned. The rares are considered "tournament materials" and if a player leaves a tournament with them, even if they drop, they can be disqualified. There is a huge gap between what the WPN tells stores they can or can't do and what judges are told can or can't be done at tournaments. That's awful but not really surprising; I can see that most TOs and store-owners would prefer to keep business interests over enforcing the rules on a local level. I'm really disgusted at that rare redraft thing. It is something that is sooooo easy to abuse. The number of times my mate would tell me about how they had this "great" draft where PersonName won with this awesome deck; and PersonName2 came 2nd and both of them are GP players AND store employees who share a collection and then took all the money/playables for them selves and left the bulks for the guys who lost was disgusting. It's like they are raking in the money form the drafters, not letting them take and keep cards that could be worth something to cash in for store credit but rather telling them if they want good prizes they have to win AND THEN having really experienced people play against FNM goers for the easy way to scoop up the good rares that do appear. I'm honestly not surprised my friend liked it though cause he was a) buddy buddy with a bunch of those guys and b) was willing to vomit money at the shop because it made him popular with said guys. Brownhat posted:This is in fact quite wrong. This is from section 2.10 of the Magic Tournament Rules: Yeah this is what I was remember as per this blog post http://blogs.magicjudges.org/rulestips/2013/07/tournament-tuesday-dropping-after-opening-limited-product/. I'm sure this has been answered before but: what happens if you say open a Oath pack with an expedition and a nice rare in pack 2 and want do drop to secure those cards for yourself? Do you just throw up the hand; call for a judge and say you wish to drop taking your drafted cards, your unopened BFZ pack and your opened pack of Oath with you? What happens to your draft spot then? Do people carry on and just end up with an extra card each? Gridlocked fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Feb 24, 2016 |
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Feb 24, 2016 05:46
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suicidesteve posted:Good luck with that. You're lucky to get 50% in my experience, especially cash. Your best bet is like a GP or something but I can't imagine there's a ton of them around you. Yeah I figured really, which is why I was not that surprised that shops apparently offering cash were not. I shifted a bunch of stuff locally pretty easily but struggling to shift the last few hundred bucks of value (a set of aether vials payed for 2 nice dinners with my partner and a few cartos of cheap beer, amazing). If Good Games had better stock I might have traded a bit in and got some board games or something, but meh. After hearing about the redrafting poo poo I wont be going there to draft ever! Any point in buying boosters with credit and selling those instead, or would that be harder again? field balm fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Feb 24, 2016 |
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Feb 24, 2016 06:21
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Brownhat posted:This is in fact quite wrong. This is from section 2.10 of the Magic Tournament Rules: But what defines correctly being in their possession? Basic lands are part of tournament materials - if a player refuses to return their lands that could be considered stealing tournament materials. If a store, at the beginning of the tournament states that all rares and mythic rares opened during the draft are part of the prize support and effectively tournament materials, there's nothing in the MTR that can prevent them from doing that. That's exactly what a sanctioned rare redraft is. We can say that's stretching the definition, but Wizards isn't likely to step in and make a clear statement one way or another. That's the problem - they let stores and judges and players point fingers at each other where they can clear things up with a single, clear statement. We've seen more than enough of that over the past couple of months. EDIT: And that article is exactly what the problem is. Wizards isn't going to make a real ruling on it so they rely on the player who decided to drop getting properly shunned by their peers. Great way to run organized play. Why expose the company to risk when the angry mob can sort things out just fine? Emerson Cod fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Feb 24, 2016 |
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Feb 24, 2016 06:23
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Do you mean buying boosters with credit, opening them then selling them or selling them as unopened product cause that will be getting you a poo poo return. You'd be better off e-baying your cards away.
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Feb 24, 2016 06:23
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Gridlocked posted:
Pretty much. They shouldn't end up with any extra cards, since you're taking those 45 cards (including basic lands) with you.
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Feb 24, 2016 06:25
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Gridlocked posted:Do you mean buying boosters with credit, opening them then selling them or selling them as unopened product cause that will be getting you a poo poo return. You'd be better off e-baying your cards away. I meant selling the boosters, but thanks. EBay is my next port of call!
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Feb 24, 2016 06:27
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Emerson Cod posted:But what defines correctly being in their possession? Basic lands are part of tournament materials - if a player refuses to return their lands that could be considered stealing tournament materials. If a store, at the beginning of the tournament states that all rares and mythic rares opened during the draft are part of the prize support and effectively tournament materials, there's nothing in the MTR that can prevent them from doing that. That's exactly what a sanctioned rare redraft is. There is a section in 7.2 that specifically states that TOs can require the basic lands they provide to be returned. There is no such rule in the MTR about drafted rares. You own any cards you draft, and any cards/boosters given to you as part of a limited event. Rare redraft isn't enforceable in the structure of the tournament rules. EDIT: There is no legal or rules based way to force somebody to hand over their rares after a draft. In fact, the section I quoted from 2.10 specifically prevents them from declaring rares tournament materials. Brownhat fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Feb 24, 2016 |
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Feb 24, 2016 06:33
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Gridlocked posted:I'm sure this has been answered before but: what happens if you say open a Oath pack with an expedition and a nice rare in pack 2 and want do drop to secure those cards for yourself? Do you just throw up the hand; call for a judge and say you wish to drop taking your drafted cards, your unopened BFZ pack and your opened pack of Oath with you? What happens to your draft spot then? Do people carry on and just end up with an extra card each? Some stores will let you buy the pack for yourself and give you a replacement to draft with. This is probably the best solution for everyone involved, since it both lets you keep the cards you cracked and lets the tournament continue properly. The tournament rules allow but do not require judges to let you do this: quote:7.4 Abnormal Product
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Feb 24, 2016 06:41
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Some stores will let you buy the pack for yourself and give you a replacement to draft with. This is probably the best solution for everyone involved, since it both lets you keep the cards you cracked and lets the tournament continue properly. That's not relevant to the subject. A pack with an expedition is not "abnormal". Some stores let you rebuy a pack in those cases, but you are also allowed to take that pack, and any other drafted cards and unopened packs and drop.
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Feb 24, 2016 06:44
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Emerson Cod posted:But what defines correctly being in their possession? Correctly in your possession: you drafted it and it's in your card pool. Not correctly in your possession: you grabbed your opponent's deck and ran for the door. I hope that helps clear up your philosophical question of whether we can ever be truly said to have the cards we have, man
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Feb 24, 2016 06:45
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Traditional Games > Magic: The Gathering: I hope that helps clear up your philosophical question of whether we can ever be truly said to have the cards we have, man Yeah, probably too long to be the thread title.
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Feb 24, 2016 06:47
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The only reason some places let you buy a new pack when you open something nuts that you don't want to pass is to keep you from dropping and making the draft lopsided. It has nothing to do with abnormal packs. Abnormal packs are poo poo like packs with no Rares (guy at my LGS opened a Fat Pack and one of his packs actually had no Rare  ).
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Feb 24, 2016 06:49
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Don't forget JOU God packs.
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Feb 24, 2016 06:51
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Brownhat posted:That's not relevant to the subject. A pack with an expedition is not "abnormal". And if you're the head judge, you're free to make that call. If someone else is the head judge, they're free to make the opposite call. "Abnormal" is intentionally left undefined in the tournament rules to leave it up to the judge's discretion. Packs with expeditions have a different rarity distribution than other packs and contain cards that officially aren't even part of the set being drafted; it's hardly unreasonable to view them as abnormal. Brownhat posted:Some stores let you rebuy a pack in those cases ...and the Abnormal Product rule is what lets them do that. Lottery of Babylon fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Feb 24, 2016 |
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Feb 24, 2016 06:53
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The Shortest Path posted:Don't forget JOU God packs. Our store made people draft them, and wouldn't let people drop. I argued until I was blue in the face that they can't do that. I don't think I ever drafted JOU so I didn't care but it was still pretty dumb.
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Feb 24, 2016 06:58
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Lottery of Babylon posted:And if you're the head judge, you're free to make that call. If someone else is the head judge, they're free to make the opposite call. You should really read 7.4 again. Also, replacing a pack because you opened cash isn't actually supported by the rules. At Competitive REL your choices are to drop and take the money or pick a card and pass. Also, you're specifically allowed to play with expeditions you draft, so that's a huge stretch.
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Feb 24, 2016 06:59
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Is this poo poo on the bingo card?
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Feb 24, 2016 08:06
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I can tell you guys really hate rare redraft since you spend pages slapfighting over the minutiae of the possible ways to "sanction" a redraft
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Feb 24, 2016 09:41
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A big flaming stink posted:I can tell you guys really hate rare redraft since you spend pages slapfighting over the minutiae of the possible ways to "sanction" a redraft Keep me updated, OP
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Feb 24, 2016 09:47
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suicidesteve posted:Our store made people draft them, and wouldn't let people drop. I argued until I was blue in the face that they can't do that. I would have just drafted the pack if the store was insistent on it It's not like any of the Gods were ultra valuable, but it would have made the draft fun as hell to have a bunch of people trying to draft around them. I'd take a picture of it and then slam Thassa 
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Feb 24, 2016 09:56
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I started out at a rare redrafting place and didn't mind it. Losing money cards was a bitter pill to swallow at first but I chalked it up as the cost of getting better at the game. I don't think there's anything blatantly unethical about it, it's just a different style of play. Honestly sometimes it's refreshing. Making card evaluations crowds up enough headspace as it is. I don't need to add "Is this card worth a lot of money on the secondary market" to all the other factors like "Is this card worth splashing or pivoting for"/"What does this pack indicate about which colors are open"/etc. Compare and contrast with the crowd that showed up for MM15 at a different store and literally checked every card on their phone, then dropped and left with the money cards before the event started.
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Feb 24, 2016 13:15
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anglachel posted:Actually the original art had each of the Warchiefs wear their Colors Mox (I guess to explain the cost reduction they provided). It was still generic as gently caress though. I thought they were the Tempest medallions. If they are moxes that's much cooler.
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Feb 24, 2016 13:34
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Errant Gin Monks posted:I thought they were the Tempest medallions. If they are moxes that's much cooler. Fact: Power makes everything better. Play Vintage Today! Oh god I sound like Randy Buhler. I just love power guys wow. Did you know if you play a Black Lotus on turn 1 you can go off and win?! AMAZING!
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Feb 24, 2016 13:37
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It doesn't have the same impact without his insanely unbearable voice.
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Feb 24, 2016 13:44
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Errant Gin Monks posted:I thought they were the Tempest medallions. If they are moxes that's much cooler. They're not either, they're just generic gems   
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Feb 24, 2016 14:26
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gonadic io posted:It doesn't have the same impact without his insanely unbearable voice. Sif not read it in his voice.
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Feb 24, 2016 14:47
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This rules lawyering re: rare redrafting is some Freeman on the Land level poo poo. I guess I shouldn't be surprised given the magic/bitcoin link
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Feb 24, 2016 15:50
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Continuing Pauper chat from before, I went and built myself a U/R Prowess-But-Better deck with 4 each of Delvers, Kiln Fiends, and Nivix Cyclopes. The Gitaxian Probes were the most expensive part of the build, but I got the rest of the cards for a song and had the most fun I've had playing Magic in months. Gitaxian Probe into Gitaxian Probe into Ponder into Bolt into Slip Through Space into Mutagenic Growth into oops I just did like 40 damage
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Feb 24, 2016 15:56
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To clear things up, per Toby Elliot you absolutely can sanction a rare-redraft tournament. It just isn't "realistically enforceable" because any store that tries to stop players from dropping and keeping their opens will lose their WPN.
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Feb 24, 2016 16:39
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Oh man, the Chris Rush episode of Maro's podcast... 
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Feb 24, 2016 16:59
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Announcing Conspiracy: The Empty Throne! Set NameConspiracy: The Empty Throne Number of Cards
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Feb 24, 2016 16:59
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BizarroAzrael posted:Announcing Conspiracy: The Empty Throne! OK I like the marketing for this set.
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Feb 24, 2016 17:04
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BizarroAzrael posted:Announcing Conspiracy: The Empty Throne! I hope they just keep changing the set name and number of cards every time a thing happens
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Feb 24, 2016 17:04
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