X-Wing: Let's Fly Some Wangs

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > X-Wing: Let's Fly Some Wangs

guts and bolts: May 16, 2015; Have you heard the Good News?

Strobe posted:

In a vacuum, I think either Han, Wedge, or Vader has the best pilot abilities in the game, measured without any upgrades included

Have you heard the Good News?

# ? Feb 25, 2016 05:53

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 12:17

Owlbear Camus: Jan 3, 2013; Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?

guts and bolts posted:

Have you heard the Good News?

Holy poo poo imagine if pilots were portable like STAW, even just in-faction.

Why yes I will put Omega Leader on a Phantom, please and thank you.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 05:56

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

Even with Omega Leader in the pool of candidates I'm sticking with those ones. Omega Leader's ability is Cool and Good, but it's strictly limited to one target at a time and lacks a lot of versatility that the PS9 group has.

His ability is hands down better than Talonbane's though!

Otisburg posted:

Holy poo poo imagine if pilots were portable like STAW, even just in-faction.

Why yes I will put Omega Leader on a Phantom, please and thank you.

Every time this line of conversation comes up I want Corran Horn and Tycho in X-wings again. :argh:

# ? Feb 25, 2016 05:57

General Battuta: Feb 7, 2011; This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

The E-Wing's dial is exactly like the T-70s except with the green banks at speed 2 instead of 1, a 5-straight, more flexible K-turns, and no Tallon Rolls.

The E-Wing picks up a green die, barrel roll, and evade, but loses a point of hull and boost.

The E-Wing gets a system upgrade instead of a tech upgrade.

A Knave comes in for 27 points, a Blue Squadron for 24. Nobody flies either of them. Most of the difference, as far as I can tell, is in those three green dice.

Good generic astros would be *awesome* and would help make E-Wings and X-Wings better. But what can you do with the E-Wing to make it more viable and economical while keeping it separate from the T70?

The ATC fix for the TIE Advanced was perfect because it was thematically (Vader using his targeting computer in ANH) and mechanically interesting (holding a target lock without spending it is a cool mechanic). The X7 Defender is great because it rewards the Defender's niche of 'going fast' with a cool new mechanic, speed-linked evades. The TIE/D Defender is great because it fits the Defender's niche of 'supership' by letting it pair up lasers/ion cannons or lasers/tractor beam, like back in TIE Fighter.

What's a similar theme/mechanics fix for the E-Wing? The ship's niche is 'high-tech boondoggle', the EU's premonition of the F35. It can't be simply 'fast X-Wing' because that's the T-70. The astromech slot is a great chance for a Rebel Veterans pack to buff X/Y/E, but the systems slot seems like an opportunity to buff the E-Wing and maybe even the Starviper.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 05:58

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Otisburg posted:

Holy poo poo imagine if pilots were portable like STAW, even just in-faction.

Why yes I will put Omega Leader on a Phantom, please and thank you.

I feel like brobots would be pretty amazing if you could choose any pair of abilities in the game to put on them.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:02

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

Any E-wing systems upgrade fix has to be measured against the Fire Control System being an excellent upgrade that is already well worth taking on a 3 attack ship. I think a title is the right way to go for the E-wing (and generic astros in general for Rebel ships that use them). A title that adds a tech slot isn't an awful idea, but it definitely needs to come with a points discount associated (and leads back into the lack of tech upgrades available right now).

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:04

Chill la Chill: Jul 2, 2007; Don't lose your gay

General Battuta posted:

What's a similar theme/mechanics fix for the E-Wing? The ship's niche is 'high-tech boondoggle', the EU's premonition of the F35. It can't be simply 'fast X-Wing' because that's the T-70. The astromech slot is a great chance for a Rebel Veterans pack to buff X/Y/E, but the systems slot seems like an opportunity to buff the E-Wing and maybe even the Starviper.

Something like the ATC but in reverse. If it has a target lock on the target, it gets one free evade token against it as long as it keeps it. :3:

e: oh wait nvm, it already has FCS in that slot. :ohdear:

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:06

Owlbear Camus: Jan 3, 2013; Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?

General Battuta posted:

The ship's niche is 'high-tech boondoggle', the EU's premonition of the F35.

~~Lockheed Martin~~ FreiTek Inc. Gets Rich

Title, E-Wing Only, 0 points.

If your squadron includes Leia Organa, she can have a cushy consultant position at the conclusion of her senatorial career.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:07

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

Also that sounds like a strictly worse Comm Relay that only works against one target and takes away any offensive use for target locks.

Also R7 Astromechs use the 'have target lock on attacker, get defense bonuses' and they're not great.

EDIT: that said, you could be on to something.

Title, E-wing only, 0 points

You may maintain an unlimited number of target locks (limit one per enemy ship).

Strobe fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Feb 25, 2016

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:08

General Battuta: Feb 7, 2011; This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Otisburg posted:

~~Lockheed Martin~~ FreiTek Inc. Gets Rich

Title, E-Wing Only, 0 points.

If your squadron includes Leia Organa, she can have a cushy consultant position at the conclusion of her senatorial career.

Concurrency Program

Title, E-Wing Only, 6 points

Each turn, reduce the cost of this upgrade by 2 points and add 3 points of upgrades to your ship.

Defense Contractor Kickbacks

Title, E-Wing Only, 0 points

For each E-Wing in your list, reduce the cost of this card by 1 point.

Strobe posted:

Also that sounds like a strictly worse Comm Relay that only works against one target and takes away any offensive use for target locks.

Also R7 Astromechs use the 'have target lock on attacker, get defense bonuses' and they're not great.

Has anyone done the math on them? Every reroll has a 50% chance of landing on a hit again, 75% if they've got a focus...how does rerolling an attack die compare to throwing a defense die? 50% chance of nullifying a hit is decent...

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:21

Chill la Chill: Jul 2, 2007; Don't lose your gay

Strobe posted:

Also that sounds like a strictly worse Comm Relay that only works against one target and takes away any offensive use for target locks.

Also R7 Astromechs use the 'have target lock on attacker, get defense bonuses' and they're not great.

It was a dumb throwaway F35 bad joke. But it doesn't work nearly as well if I said it was an astromech upgrade instead of systems, even though that would work better~ :3:

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:27

The Lord of Hats: Aug 22, 2010; Hello, yes! Is being very good day for posting, no?

General Battuta posted:

Defense Contractor Kickbacks

Title, E-Wing Only, 0 points

For each E-Wing in your list, reduce the cost of this card by 1 point.

"Hm, that seems pretty solid, I wonder how many you could squeeze into a list, the generic can't be that exp-27 points for PS 1? :stare:

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:28

General Battuta: Feb 7, 2011; This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

A negative cost astromech would actually be kind of interesting...it could do something like regen one shield when discarded for synergy with Integrated Astro, it wouldn't make Corran any stronger, and you could run it on your T65/T-70/E-Wing generics.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:33

Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; "LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

Next-Gen Pilot
Title. E-Wing Only

Your upgrade bar gains one system symbol.

You can't equip two of the same system upgrade. You can't equip this card if your pilot skill value is "4" or higher.

-2 points

Edit: Along with some cool E-Wing only system upgrade, probably?

Some Numbers fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Feb 25, 2016

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:34

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

I would like to see E-wings turned into defensive juggernauts. Ways to keep evades, R7 Astromech synergy, etc.

I think that's how you keep low pilot skill useful on an expensive ship. It has to be able to survive to shoot.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:36

The Lord of Hats: Aug 22, 2010; Hello, yes! Is being very good day for posting, no?

Otisburg posted:

Holy poo poo imagine if pilots were portable like STAW, even just in-faction.

Why yes I will put Omega Leader on a Phantom, please and thank you.

Zeta Ace in a YT-2400, just loving teleport sideways completely out of arcs.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:37

Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; "LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

The Lord of Hats posted:

Zeta Ace in a YT-2400, just loving teleport sideways completely out of arcs.

Don't large ships barrel roll with the short side of the template?

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:38

The Lord of Hats: Aug 22, 2010; Hello, yes! Is being very good day for posting, no?

Some Numbers posted:

Don't large ships barrel roll with the short side of the template?

Yes, but in my dream scenario Zeta Ace would overcome that for maximum stupid.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:41

General Battuta: Feb 7, 2011; This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Some Numbers posted:

Next-Gen Pilot
Title. E-Wing Only

Your upgrade bar gains one system symbol.

You can't equip two of the same system upgrade. You can't equip this card if your pilot skill value is "4" or higher.

-2 points

Hey, that's pretty cool. A free FCS, a Stealth Device, and a Sensor Jammer on each Knave gives you a 99 point list...but they're still all PS1, ugh. Still, I think this is the right direction for an E-Wing fix, the whole fun of the ship is loading it up with gizmos.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:41

hooman: Oct 11, 2007; This guy seems legit.; Fun Shoe

The star viper suffers the same issues as the e-wings except the generics don't even get a system or astromech slot

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:43

ConfusedUs: Feb 24, 2004; Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!

**Reverse Thrusters**

Modification -- 0 points -- E-Wing only

When you reveal your dial, if you are not stressed, you may instead perform a red [Full Stop] maneuver. Then, receive one focus token. You may only attack once this turn.

(picture shows an E-Wing bristling with forward-facing thrusters instead of guns)

Something like this could turn low-PS E-Wings into amazing blockers. Combine it with Targeting Astromech, and you have something that can just stop in your face and unleash hell.

Edit: Add advanced sensors and you could evade (or roll), full stop, focus, and target lock.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:48

General Battuta: Feb 7, 2011; This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

You know, it just occurred to me that Sensor Jammer is useful even if the attacker's got focus! You can turn crits into regular hits.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:57

Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; "LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

General Battuta posted:

Hey, that's pretty cool. A free FCS, a Stealth Device, and a Sensor Jammer on each Knave gives you a 99 point list...but they're still all PS1, ugh. Still, I think this is the right direction for an E-Wing fix, the whole fun of the ship is loading it up with gizmos.

27+3+4 = 34, meaning you're at 102.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 07:01

General Battuta: Feb 7, 2011; This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Oh, ugh, sensor jammers are expensive.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 07:35

KongGeorgeVII: Feb 17, 2009; Flow like a
harpoon
daily and nightly.

General Battuta posted:

You know, it just occurred to me that Sensor Jammer is useful even if the attacker's got focus! You can turn crits into regular hits.

You can only jam hits in the first place. If your opponent rolls all crits you can't turn anything to focuses.

e: It still is useful though. They have to spend the focus to get that hit through that they otherwise would not have had to. It makes your return fire more potent.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 08:35

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Strobe posted:

I would like to see E-wings turned into defensive juggernauts. Ways to keep evades, R7 Astromech synergy, etc.

I think that's how you keep low pilot skill useful on an expensive ship. It has to be able to survive to shoot.

R7 synergy would be very thematic as well. You could always give them a system card identical to Tarn Mison's pilot ability.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 09:44

Panzeh: Nov 27, 2006; "..The high ground"

Strobe posted:

Even with Omega Leader in the pool of candidates I'm sticking with those ones. Omega Leader's ability is Cool and Good, but it's strictly limited to one target at a time and lacks a lot of versatility that the PS9 group has.

His ability is hands down better than Talonbane's though!

Every time this line of conversation comes up I want Corran Horn and Tycho in X-wings again.

I actually think RAC's ability is more useful than Han's, but Han is better than RAC because he's PS9.

Also, while a free system would probably help E-wings a lot, I don't think FFG is going to go to the same fix twice.

Panzeh fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Feb 25, 2016

# ? Feb 25, 2016 13:04

Slab Squatthrust: Jun 3, 2008; This is mutiny!

Yeah, I'd actually say Han's ability is only good because of the ship it's on. Toss it on anything without a crew slot and....meh. It works because you have the crew and upgrades to be durable and modify all at once, without actions really. Take away part of that and he wouldn't be so hot.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 13:12

Archenteron: Nov 3, 2006

The Lord of Hats posted:

"Hm, that seems pretty solid, I wonder how many you could squeeze into a list, the generic can't be that exp-27 points for PS 1?

That theoretical upgrade would enable EEEEZ though, which would be amusing.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 15:41

hoiyes: May 17, 2007

Talonbane is a top tier pilot in the wrong ship. He should've been a PS 9 StarViper.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 16:14

thespaceinvader: Mar 30, 2011; The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

General Battuta posted:

Definitely. The E-Wing challenge is to buff the generics without buffing Corran, which is a tough design problem.

Otisburg posted:

Refined Tibanna Refit

Title, E-Wing Only, like 3-5 points probably?

During the combat phase, if there is not a stress token next to your ship when declaring an attack, you may place a stress token next to your ship and roll one additional attack die. You may not make any additional attacks this round.

Potent, backed by the (now defunct lol) fluff, and Coran doesn't want it.

Nah, Corran loves this, he just uses it on his second shot in the round and merrily greens away to regen.

I've seen a very nice suggestion for an e-wing fix, which is an upgrade that uses both the System and Astromech slot - Corran almost certainly won't want it because he loves FCS and RegenDroid too much, but it would let other e-wings work well. Not sure what it would do though.

hoiyes posted:

Talonbane is a top tier pilot in the wrong ship. He should've been a PS 9 StarViper.

gently caress yes. That pilot ability and that pilot skill in a ship that can actually MOVE and DODGE. Goddamn that would be awesome.

I'm really hoping for good things from Scum Vets when it's eventually announced.

What's everyone's hopes for the unspoiled stuff from Wave 8? I'm really hoping for 18 point elite generics for the TAP, and for it to be possible to get 4 G1As into a jousting list, ideally with a Z as well, so Scum can do BBBBZ...

# ? Feb 25, 2016 19:08

Slab Squatthrust: Jun 3, 2008; This is mutiny!

hoiyes posted:

Talonbane is a top tier pilot in the wrong ship. He should've been a PS 9 StarViper.

Yeah, this exactly. And Guri should have been the PS 7 ace, with Xizor at 5. Who has a bodyguard that's *worse* at flying and fighting than you? Xizor wasn't even a good pilot. Guri was a literal superhuman android.

Ah well, wishes and fishes I guess. Would love to see Guri get her freighter at some point though. Could be another forward arc only large ship, but with a turret slot like the VCX.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 19:26

Brunas: Nov 5, 2012

thespaceinvader posted:

Nah, Corran loves this, he just uses it on his second shot in the round and merrily greens away to regen.

Second shot would be during the end phase, not combat.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 19:31

thespaceinvader: Mar 30, 2011; The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

Brunas posted:

Second shot would be during the end phase, not combat.

Ah, fair enough, yeah, that would work.

I feel like awkwardly writing around Corran to make something cool that he doesn't want to use because it's arbitrarily restricted is a bit 'No Corrans Club'. I'd far rather they design something that doesn't help his current strong build by competing in slots that his current strong build uses, and maybe make the rest of the e-wings good AND give Corran an alternative to his current build that's also competitive.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 19:38

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; "From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.; Buglord

Astromech that only works if you don't use a pilot ability that turn.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 19:43

Slab Squatthrust: Jun 3, 2008; This is mutiny!

E-Wing only astromech or system, plus some sort of title maybe. I could see a title removing some slots similar to the x7 title, for a cost reduction plus <do cool thing>. E-wing's aren't quite as overcosted as the Defender, but they're not very good either.

Or, have a title that gives a bonus while an astromech is slotted, again, some sort of bonus action to help it out would be nice.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 19:44

Chill la Chill: Jul 2, 2007; Don't lose your gay

So eddie aikau is GO today. ( http://quiksilver.com/surf/events/eddie-aikau/ ) . Clyde says it's the best waves in 40 years. :swoon:

I'm gonna have to commemorate and paint a ship for it. The decimator and 2400 will prob do. Gonna paint some cool waves on there~

e: I'm prob gonna model a tiny surfboard to put on the 2400 on a rack

# ? Feb 25, 2016 19:46

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; "From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.; Buglord

The ability to launch your astromech as a missile

# ? Feb 25, 2016 19:46

alg: Mar 14, 2007; A wolf was no less a wolf because a whim of chance caused him to run with the watch-dogs.

Ewings need a title that gives them a dial worthy of the New Republic's ~next gen fighter~. They can't even one turn

# ? Feb 25, 2016 19:46

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 12:17

thespaceinvader: Mar 30, 2011; The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

thespaceinvader posted:

Nah, Corran loves this, he just uses it on his second shot in the round and merrily greens away to regen.

I've seen a very nice suggestion for an e-wing fix, which is an upgrade that uses both the System and Astromech slot - Corran almost certainly won't want it because he loves FCS and RegenDroid too much, but it would let other e-wings work well. Not sure what it would do though.

Thinking about it, making E-Wings double attack gurus generally would be cool.

System/Astromech, you may attack twice in the combat phase. Fairly low points.

Sure, Corran CAN equip it and get three attacks in one round in exchange for losing TWO in the next, but he also loses his regen and his FCS to do it.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 19:49

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