The BSS Q&A Thread: It's Time For Arkhamaniacs

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > The BSS Q&A Thread: It's Time For Arkhamaniacs

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Gavok: Oct 10, 2005; Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?

WickedHate posted:

That arc was...depressing.

I thought it was pretty great because it was Tom Taylor going, "I'm leaving this series, so gently caress it, I'm going with a happy ending. Let the next guy bring us back to the cynical status quo."

# ? Feb 25, 2016 20:26

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# ? May 25, 2024 20:18

FilthyImp: Sep 30, 2002; Anime Deviant

Ryoshi posted:

- What is up with the Unknown Men in 7S, particularly their relationship with Slaughter Swamp and Solomon Grundy? I understand how the swamp and Grundy are all tied together by Sheeda blood but what's with that part at the end where the guy from DC is sewing someone (the reader?) up into something (Grundy's body?)?

They're a stand-in for editorial interference. I think they're incorporating the reader in the universe (using the Grundy Body as a Fiction Suit) to effect change somehow. Or he was resurrecting the slain member of their group in a new body.

quote:

While I loved the idea of a team that doesn't know they're a team, most of them don't do much of significance.

It's all a Rube Goldberg-esque series of events that leads to (Bulleteer?) putting an end to the Sheeda. The Spear of Aurakles (the First Hero) that defeats the villains is basically his progeny, in the form of the soldiers.

quote:

-I can follow basically everything in FC that deals with Darkseid and it's one of my favorite metaphysics/multiverse stories, but...what the hell is up with Mandrakk?

He's the classic Best of Us became The Worst of All character. I think he's one of the first Monitors to try and map the multiverse, but he becomes tainted by Bleed. He is a stand in for the GRIMDARKK state of DC fiction, in contrast to Superman's continued position as a paragon of idealism. He's there at the end to show that the ridiculous triumphs over the darkest of darks -- Superman defeats the embodiment of Evilest Evil with song, but we need to end the meta-threat of stories without hope. Nix Uotan, the stand in for a new guard free of the limitations of the old, does this by assembling the most over the top team imaginable (The GL Corps, the Superman Analogue Squad from beyond time, Heaven's army of angels, the goddamn Captain Carrot and his Amazing Zoo Crew which were cast adrift from the company's publishing line, etc) and reminding us that all these characters have a place in the stories to be told.

quote:

Also if anyone can give a really quick explanation of the caveman/Metron stuff I'd appreciate it.

Anthro is taught the spark of creativity (Fire) by Metron-- marking a slight interference with the evolution of humanity. Coincidentally, it turns out that the sigils that Metron wears guard against Anti-Life. As the walls of time break down, Anthro is able to go forward and teach this protective spell to others (though this happens in a side-story). Anthro at the beginning marks the start of humanity's hope and ingenuity that eventually gives Superman the will to destroy Darkseid. His death at the end sets ups Batman's time-hop, having passed on his knowledge to subsequent generations.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 22:18

CapnAndy: Feb 27, 2004; Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Ryoshi posted:

Okay I know Morrison leaves a lot open to interpretation, but I'm going to ask some dumb 7 Soldiers/ Final Crisis questions anyway and hope for the best.

- What is up with the Unknown Men in 7S, particularly their relationship with Slaughter Swamp and Solomon Grundy? I understand how the swamp and Grundy are all tied together by Sheeda blood but what's with that part at the end where the guy from DC is sewing someone (the reader?) up into something (Grundy's body?)?

Okay, so the most important thing you need to learn if you're gonna read Morrison is that motherfucker loves metafiction. The Unknown Men, who exist outside of time and create stories they force characters into (no matter how good a fit those characters are), are comic book writers. Seven Soldiers is kicked off when an Unknown Man goes rogue and introduces an annihilation-level threat from completely out of nowhere, which is defeated when the good Unknown Men take existing characters and have each of them act in a small, in-character way to defeat the threat. It is Grant Morrison rebelling against hacky crossover events that get forced on you out of nowhere, and his suggestion for how they should be dealt with. At the end, the bad Unknown Man gets his ultimate punishment by being shoved into the DC Universe and forced to live as Solomon Grundy -- a mindless zombie controlled by smarter people who have power over him. (Once you learn to see the subtext, you'll notice that it's rarely subtle.)

quote:

- While I loved the idea of a team that doesn't know they're a team, most of them don't do much of significance. Also, it really plays up that the team was put together by the newspaper magnate, but he only influenced the Manhattan Guardian - not only that, but there were some members like Klarion that he could have had no possible way of knowing about. Is this explained somehow? I feel like it might have something to do with the magnate's childhood adventure gang encountering either the Sheeda or the Unknown Men in the past but the whole thing seemed a little shaky.

It wasn't the newspaper magnate, it was the good Unknown Men playing an extremely complicated bank shot, nudging each of the Seven Soldiers so that a set of coincidences suddenly get pulled back on to reveal one grand, intricate plan happening where nobody was looking. Frankenstein destroys the majority of the Sheeda forces and then seizes control of their flagship. Klarion binds Frankenstein, gaining the flagship as well, removing the rest of the Sheeda troops. Zatanna casts the spell in the middle of the road, which Carla has to swerve to avoid. This causes her to run into the Guardian, whom she runs out and embraces. The Shining Knight destroys Glorianna's cauldron and then fights her to a specific rooftop, which she is shot off of by I, Spyder, sending her plummeting to the streets of New York City. Mister Miracle gives his own life to free Aurakles, who goes back in time and becomes Bulleteer's ancestor. And Bulleteer, swerving her car through roads which are blocked off in a very specific way, crashes into the weakened and wounded Glorianna, completing the seventh strike and killing her.

quote:

-Other than the Mister Miracle arc, are there any other references or tie-ins to FC?
-Also, are there other good Klarion books because that was my favorite arc (and the art was great)

Sadly, no, to both questions.

quote:

-I can follow basically everything in FC that deals with Darkseid and it's one of my favorite metaphysics/multiverse stories, but...what the hell is up with Mandrakk? From my understanding the Monitors were once just a formless intelligence but got infected by "stories" from the Orrery, which splintered them into a race with names and personalities and time. Mandrakk like...eats the stories or something and grows powerful while he transforms entire worlds into static hellscapes without stories of their own. My two questions I guess boil down to 1) how does he tie into anything really, is he just chilling at the bottom of the Orrery in the Darkseid hole or what, and 2) why is he there at the end for the GL Corps to stake when Supes chumped him in the Superman Beyond issues with all the freaky 3D before Supes went back to Darkseid-earth? Or am I misremembering that?

Okay, remember the metafiction I mentioned in 7S? It's much thicker in Final Crisis. The Monitors are comic book writers, who've been "infected" by their own creations and now exist somewhat in actual comic book space, with the comics influencing reality and reality influencing the comics until you're not sure where, exactly, the point is between real and fiction any more (another popular Morrison theme). Mandrakk was once the greatest Monitor (writer) of them all, but he fell to darkness. Though he doesn't directly act on the universes (comics) any more, he's become a literal vampire, a cancer at the core of all stories that's slowly draining their lifeblood, and his pervasive influence makes itself felt by turning everything dark and depressing and unoriginal.

In other words, he's Alan Moore.

Nix Uotan is the youngest of the Monitors, the one most willing to interact with the universes as though they're "real" and they matter to the Monitors instead of being something they can just watch and act on however they want. He's a direct descendant of Mandrakk, and the one who has to confront Mandrakk and remove his entire toxic influence from all of the stories.

He's Grant Morrison.

What happens in the final issue is that Darkseid has mortally wounded reality itself, and the only solution is to destroy everything and then rebuild it. (This is prefaced by Superman literally putting Lois into a refrigerator with the promise that in the new, better universe, she can come back out of it. Morrison is really not subtle.) When the DC Universe is destroyed and all that's left is the metafictional space of the Monitors, that's when Morrison stages a grand battle for the soul of the new DCU between himself, representing Comics Should Be Fun, and Moore, representing Grim 'N Gritty.

"Bwahahahaha! Look what I've got! I've got some minor characters who were killed off-panel to show you that the stakes are really high," says Grim 'N Gritty. "And I've got a female hero who I'm putting in a damsel in distress role and menacing, vaguely sexually, no less! What've you got?" "Well," says Comics Should Be Fun, "I've got 52 different versions of Superman, and I've got cartoon animals with super-powers, and I've got a bunch of Japanese teenagers so wrapped up in their petty personal bullshit they don't realize they're gods, and I've got an entire army of space aliens with magic wishing rings, and I've got more cool stuff too, but look at that, you just exploded. Guess I win."

And so with Grim 'N Gritty and his poisonous legacy banished, the DCU is rebuilt into a stronger place, one where the good guys always get a happy ending in the end. (Which... well, it was a nice try, anyway.)

quote:

Also if anyone can give a really quick explanation of the caveman/Metron stuff I'd appreciate it.

The cavemen are uplifted into proper human beings by fire/knowledge from the gods. That one's a pretty simple Prometheus/Adam riff.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 22:24

Teenage Fansub: Jan 28, 2006

For the Klarion question, there's Robin #157-158 that Klarion guest starred in, and you might enjoy Return of Bruce Wayne #2 (no Klarion, but a puritan/pilgrim witch trials setting) Both have Frazer Irving art.

Then, again it's not Klarion, but 2011 Xombi is more Frazer Irving with magic based characters.

e: If you can find it, you could go back to Jack Kirby's Demon where Klarion stated. I haven't gotten to reading it, but it's probably awesome.

Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Feb 25, 2016

# ? Feb 25, 2016 22:32

bessantj: Jul 27, 2004

Gavok posted:

Read it the correct way:

- Check out the first two issues.

- Get your hopes up.

- Wait about three years.

- Finish the series.

- Try to remember what all the hype was about.

You know I love having a plan.

Also who has the best in comic history out of Captain America and Iron man?

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:15

bobkatt013: Oct 8, 2006; Youâre telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?

If you like klarion bum bum the witch boy I highly suggest Young Justice sins of the youth

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:18

X-O: Apr 28, 2002; Long Live The King!

Ultragonk posted:

You know I love having a plan.

Also who has the best in comic history out of Captain America and Iron man?

I'd say Captain America, hands down no contest. Outside of Demon in a Bottle you never really hear anyone talk about great Iron Man stories from the comics.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:18

DivineCoffeeBinge: Mar 3, 2011; Spider-Man's Amazing Construction Company

Ultragonk posted:

You know I love having a plan.

Also who has the best in comic history out of Captain America and Iron man?

Easily Cap; there are dozens of all-time great Cap stories but Iron Man, despite being my favorite character, doesn't have as many of those stand-out brilliant arcs.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:20

Lurdiak: Feb 26, 2006; I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.

It's easy to forget ever since RDJ made him Marvel's Number One Guy, but Iron Man's mostly had embarrassingly corny or stupid adventures. Sure, Cap was a werewolf for a hot minute, but Tony turned into a teen version of himself for a few years.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:21

Air Skwirl: May 13, 2007; Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.

Ultragonk posted:

You know I love having a plan.

Also who has the best in comic history out of Captain America and Iron man?

Did Iron-Man punch Hitler? Was Iron Man there when Richard Nixon killed himself after revealing he was the leader of a fascist organization bent on taking over the world?

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:25

X-O: Apr 28, 2002; Long Live The King!

Iron Man was always a part of the Avengers sure, but really until Bendis changed the game in regards to the Avengers Iron Man was not a marquee guy. Look no further than Infinity Gauntlet where he does nothing and is killed in the background of a panel while Cap gets the big showcase moment. People say it was RDJ that made Iron Man huge, and that's true, but in the comics Iron Man was kind of a nothing until Bendis did his thing on Avengers.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:29

bessantj: Jul 27, 2004

See I read a bit of Ion Man when I was younger but never really read Cap. I did like the Mandarin so always liked Iron Man. But this is why I ask you guys. What about Hulks history is that pretty good? Very patchy or really just read 5 stories and then run away type deal? And Superman?

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:34

X-O: Apr 28, 2002; Long Live The King!

There are a number of good older Hulk comics. If a Hulk book has Peter David as the writer you can't go wrong. For newer stuff you've got Pak which is quality stuff.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:38

Lurdiak: Feb 26, 2006; I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.

Iron Man was sort of a marquee guy in the very early days, when he and Thor (and Hulk, when he felt like playing nice) were the "heavy hitters" of the Marvel Universe. But then like 8000 more guys got added and Iron Man fell by the wayside until Bendis and Ellis revamped him.

Ultragonk posted:

See I read a bit of Ion Man when I was younger but never really read Cap. I did like the Mandarin so always liked Iron Man. But this is why I ask you guys. What about Hulks history is that pretty good? Very patchy or really just read 5 stories and then run away type deal? And Superman?

Hulk is very hit or miss. He has a lot of great stories but also a lot of skippable ones.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:39

CapnAndy: Feb 27, 2004; Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Ultragonk posted:

See I read a bit of Ion Man when I was younger but never really read Cap. I did like the Mandarin so always liked Iron Man. But this is why I ask you guys. What about Hulks history is that pretty good? Very patchy or really just read 5 stories and then run away type deal? And Superman?

There are more great Superman stories than any other character, yes including Batman, come at me Bat-fans.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:46

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Daredevil always seemed like he had a fantastic ratio of good runs : crap runs.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:52

Lurdiak: Feb 26, 2006; I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.

CapnAndy posted:

There are more great Superman stories than any other character, yes including Batman, come at me Bat-fans.

Spider-man beats Superman out easily due to What Ifs.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:53

X-O: Apr 28, 2002; Long Live The King!

Doctor Spaceman posted:

Daredevil always seemed like he had a fantastic ratio of good runs : crap runs.

Yes, this is true. Daredevil has somehow amassed a number of great runs by several different writers. And one run by Kevin Smith to balance it out.

I'd say that Spider-Man and Superman have the best ratio of good stories to bad. Both have some really bad stuff but a ton of great stuff too. Of course that's probably just a byproduct of being the most popular characters and having more books total.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:58

Teenage Fansub: Jan 28, 2006

Ultragonk posted:

And Superman?

Get this immediately
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1401232051?keywords=all-star%20superman&qid=1456445891&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

# ? Feb 26, 2016 01:18

bessantj: Jul 27, 2004

I went on a bit of a buying spree over the past few months and got a ton of comics I don't have any experience with The Flash for example, I liked him in the Justice League cartoon but don't know any comic work. I don't have any Daredevil so I'll start getting some.

Teenage Fansub posted:

Get this immediately
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1401232051?keywords=all-star%20superman&qid=1456445891&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

I loved the movie they did of that.

bessantj fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Feb 26, 2016

# ? Feb 26, 2016 01:24

Teenage Fansub: Jan 28, 2006

Mark Waid and then Geoff Johns have the major Flash runs.
You can get Geoff Johns Flash omnibuses now, but I think I read that DC are about to put the Waid comics out in big collections. Since that came first, maybe start there.

E: It might be a while away. Amazon says September http://www.amazon.com/Flash-Mark-Waid-Book-One/dp/1401267351
That stuff is all on Comixology.

Ultragonk posted:

I loved the movie they did of that.

That kind of stinks, cause the comic will be very familiar.
Morrison also did the New52 origin in Action Comics trades 1-3 and like X-O said Greg Pak's run has been super strong, which starts in trade #5.

Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Feb 26, 2016

# ? Feb 26, 2016 01:27

FilthyImp: Sep 30, 2002; Anime Deviant

bobkatt013 posted:

If you like klarion bum bum the witch boy I highly suggest Young Justice sins of the youth

Actually, I would caution against that if you were into the Gothic horror vibe that permeated Klarion 7S.

YJ Klarion (bum bum bum) is more like a mischievous sprite than an outcast apocalyptic figure. Though in fairness, it's fun as all hell.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 01:49

X-O: Apr 28, 2002; Long Live The King!

Geoff Johns best work is on Flash, by virtue of being some of his only good work. But it's really good.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 01:57

bobkatt013: Oct 8, 2006; Youâre telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?

X-O posted:

Geoff Johns best work is on Flash, by virtue of being some of his only good work. But it's really good.

Jsa

# ? Feb 26, 2016 02:02

Mover: Jun 30, 2008

Everyone saying iron man hasn't had any great stories has clearly never read The Crossing :smaug:

# ? Feb 26, 2016 02:10

CapnAndy: Feb 27, 2004; Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

I'll defend Johns' GL stuff up through Sinestro Corps War.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 02:14

purple death ray: Jul 28, 2007; me omw 2 steal ur girl

FilthyImp posted:

Actually, I would caution against that if you were into the Gothic horror vibe that permeated Klarion 7S.

YJ Klarion (bum bum bum) is more like a mischievous sprite than an outcast apocalyptic figure. Though in fairness, it's fun as all hell.

If you like Klarion (Bum Bum Bum) he had some fun guest star issues in Stephanie Brown's Batgirl series.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 02:15

Dunbar: Feb 21, 2003

Oddly I always felt like Superman had the least good stories of any major character. Maybe it's that most of them I've read are part of one-off miniseries or trades rather than being part of the main series like you usually get with Batman, GL, Flash, Spiderman, Daredevil, etc. runs.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 02:30

Rockman Reserve: Oct 2, 2007; "Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

Thanks for all the info (and recommendations), you all rock.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 02:32

DivineCoffeeBinge: Mar 3, 2011; Spider-Man's Amazing Construction Company

Mover posted:

Everyone saying iron man hasn't had any great stories has clearly never read The Crossing

He's had one all-time great (Demon in a Bottle) and at least two really, really good (Armor Wars, Fraction's run). I think he's had a pretty good run, all things considered. But comparing him to Captain America, who's had just a ton of really, really good stories (and that's not even bringing up Kirby - how do you not love the Madbomb?) is a tough row to hoe.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 02:47

WickedHate: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

Every single Iron Man story as far as I can tell involves his alcoholism or using past armors.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 02:48

Mr. Maltose: Feb 16, 2011; The Guffless Girlverine

Ironman had Doomquest and Reoccuring Knightmare, both of which owned and had nothing to do with old armor or booze. Just lots of King Arthur.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 02:54

WickedHate: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

Booze, old armor, or Doom.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 02:57

DivineCoffeeBinge: Mar 3, 2011; Spider-Man's Amazing Construction Company

Mr. Maltose posted:

Ironman had Doomquest and Reoccuring Knightmare, both of which owned and had nothing to do with old armor or booze. Just lots of King Arthur.

Both were seriously good stories, too. Reoccuring Knightmare was one of my first Iron Man stories that I really fell in love with.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 02:57

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

Years ago, the wisdom floating around was that if you had a box of back issues and wanted a good Marvel comic, pull out an issue of Daredevil, and if you wanted a good DC comic, pull out an issue of Flash. Both had and frankly still have an impressive ratio of good:bad over the years, especially since the early '80s.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 02:59

Mr. Maltose: Feb 16, 2011; The Guffless Girlverine

DivineCoffeeBinge posted:

Both were seriously good stories, too. Reoccuring Knightmare was one of my first Iron Man stories that I really fell in love with.

Yuppie Merlin and ANDROS STARK, EVIL GEAR MAN are some of the best one off characters ever. Not to mention the future's snootiest Radio Shack employee.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 03:00

Teenage Fansub: Jan 28, 2006

Squizzle posted:

still have an impressive ratio of good:bad

We're talking Flash comics?

# ? Feb 26, 2016 03:13

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

DivineCoffeeBinge posted:

He's had one all-time great (Demon in a Bottle) and at least two really, really good (Armor Wars, Fraction's run). I think he's had a pretty good run, all things considered. But comparing him to Captain America, who's had just a ton of really, really good stories (and that's not even bringing up Kirby - how do you not love the Madbomb?) is a tough row to hoe.

I have yet to see a good story involving Steve Rodgers.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 03:28

Gaz-L: Jan 28, 2009

Teenage Fansub posted:

We're talking Flash comics?

Messner-Loebs, Waid and Johns alone get you a fairly solid hit:miss ratio.

CharlestheHammer posted:

I have yet to see a good story involving Steve Rodgers.

Winter Soldier.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 03:29

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# ? May 25, 2024 20:18

WickedHate: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

CharlestheHammer posted:

I have yet to see a good story involving Steve Rodgers.