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MonsieurChoc posted:While X-Wings are already super cool, they'd be even cooler if they could turn into giant robots. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Luke_Skywalker
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Feb 28, 2016 06:23
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lmao wat
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Feb 28, 2016 06:28
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Is Bigger Luke... a Transformer?
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Feb 28, 2016 06:31
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In another world Luke became the Zeta Gundam it seems.
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Feb 28, 2016 06:36
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Empress Theonora posted:Is Bigger Luke... a Transformer? No, that would be Metal Luke. Rey sees him in a vision.
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Feb 28, 2016 09:22
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Canemacar posted:Got a link to the post? It sounds like a cool observation that makes sense in the context of the movie. Luke has trouble letting go of his preconceptions, so seeing the rocks "fall" as they should would be a good way for Yoda to get Luke to open his mind. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3755790&userid=118075&perpage=40&pagenumber=6#post454900660
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Feb 28, 2016 09:29
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BrianWilly posted:Well, if you destroy a planet, or destroy a star...bam. No more gravity, at least on a mid-cosmic level if not the macro-cosmic level. You can't destroy the influence of the Force without also destroying all life. It's a nonsensical concept.
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Feb 28, 2016 13:25
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MrMojok posted:http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3755790&userid=118075&perpage=40&pagenumber=6#post454900660 Ah, thanks. In true SMG fashion, he starts with a cool, interesting take but kinda goes off the rails with it. "He bears a striking resemblance to a young Mark Hamill." I wonder why...
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Feb 28, 2016 14:53
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Off topic, sure, but there's a part of me that wishes that Mark Hammil was in Amadeus like so many people thought he was--just so he could have had a great film like that under his belt. I remember being about 11 or 12 thinking that it was Mark Hammil and not Tom Hulce so I would watch it for that reason (before I could really appreciate it as a film). I also kind of wish Tom Hulce would play a twin version of Mark Hammil in some kind of storyline but that's just random thinking.
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Feb 28, 2016 15:12
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Now imagine you've never seen a Star Wars movie before, and TFA is your introduction to the franchise. This was undoubtedly the case with plenty of people who went into theatres this winter. In A New Hope, the force is about relying more on your ears than on your eyes, becoming aware of everything around you. Note that even the little bat-faced dude fits this theme. Empire Strikes Back is obviously about altering your perception of reality and treating objects around you as extensions of your will. It's basically the "there is no spoon" from The Matrix. So how does TFA (re)define and illustrate the concept of 'the force?'
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Feb 28, 2016 15:15
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:So how does TFA (re)define and illustrate the concept of 'the force?' It was sleeping and wakes up!
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Feb 28, 2016 15:24
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Canemacar posted:Ah, thanks. In true SMG fashion, he starts with a cool, interesting take but kinda goes off the rails with it. The TF wiki is humorous like that, it isn't a legitimate clueless wiki editor statement.
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Feb 28, 2016 15:29
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dialhforhero posted:I also kind of wish Tom Hulce would play a twin version of Mark Hammil in some kind of storyline but that's just random thinking.
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Feb 28, 2016 15:41
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Canemacar posted:Ah, thanks. In true SMG fashion, he starts with a cool, interesting take but kinda goes off the rails with it. The Muppet Show clearly establishes that they're cousins. It's no surprise.
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Feb 28, 2016 16:15
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Now imagine you've never seen a Star Wars movie before, and TFA is your introduction to the franchise. This was undoubtedly the case with plenty of people who went into theatres this winter. Finn suggests trusting each other and figuring something out (i.e., how Luke wins in Return of the Jedi), but as Han quicklyy informs us, in this film "THAT'S NOT HOW THE FORCE WORKS!"
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Feb 28, 2016 16:26
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Now imagine you've never seen a Star Wars movie before, and TFA is your introduction to the franchise. This was undoubtedly the case with plenty of people who went into theatres this winter. Despite being largely a remake of ANH, it's treatment of the force is far more in line with ESB's. Kylo stops blaster bolts in mid-flight("You're saying I can dodge bullets?" "No. I'm saying that when you're ready, you won't have to."); removes people's ability to control their own bodies; and is able to dominate people's minds whether to torture them, invade their memories, or force them to sleep. He spends the entire movie enforcing his will on everything and everyone around him even as he himself is unsure of who he is or what he wants. Neurolimal posted:The TF wiki is humorous like that, it isn't a legitimate clueless wiki editor statement. Ah. My bad. Poe's Law and all that. Jack Gladney posted:The Muppet Show clearly establishes that they're cousins. It's no surprise. But how does Bigger Luke play into this mystery? Is there another as-of-yet unknown cousin, Bigger Hamill? Canemacar fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Feb 28, 2016 |
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Feb 28, 2016 16:26
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MrMojok posted:http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3755790&userid=118075&perpage=40&pagenumber=6#post454900660 How do you create a page like that, that stacks all of someone's posts?
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Feb 28, 2016 17:06
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Hit the question mark under their name and then copy the URL. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3755790&userid=46556
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Feb 28, 2016 17:11
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Canemacar posted:Despite being largely a remake of ANH, it's treatment of the force is far more in line with ESB's. Kylo stops blaster bolts in mid-flight("You're saying I can dodge bullets?" "No. I'm saying that when you're ready, you won't have to."); removes people's ability to control their own bodies; and is able to dominate people's minds whether to torture them, invade their memories, or force them to sleep. He spends the entire movie enforcing his will on everything and everyone around him even as he himself is unsure of who he is or what he wants. I agree with this. TFA does a pretty good job using Kylo to show that the dark side of the Force is all about imposing your will on others. But at the same time, TFA doesn't really have a coherent philosophy of what the light side is all about. I don't feel like Rey's growth in the Force throughout the film is clearly tied in with any separate character growth she undergoes. In ANH, Luke grows in strength in the Force as a result of his increasing faith in himself and his friends. Whereas in TFA, Rey grows in strength in the Force as a result of her increasing faith in the Force. There's no metaphor. The Force is literally just an energy field that gives you superpowers if you believe in it. It's science fiction. Pretty ironic, given how much hay was made about TFA suppposedly going back to a more "spiritual" interpretation of the Force than the prequels. The Force of the prequels was based around a central metaphor of life forms living together for mutual advantage. TFA doesn't have anything like that.
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Feb 28, 2016 17:16
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Neo Rasa posted:Finn suggests trusting each other and figuring something out (i.e., how Luke wins in Return of the Jedi), but as Han quicklyy informs us, in this film "THAT'S NOT HOW THE FORCE WORKS!" Finn had faith in the plot - there's another Death Star - he's with Han Solo - this will be easy. Han's death is the price paid for this arrogance.
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Feb 28, 2016 17:31
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Cnut the Great posted:I agree with this. TFA does a pretty good job using Kylo to show that the dark side of the Force is all about imposing your will on others. But at the same time, TFA doesn't really have a coherent philosophy of what the light side is all about. I don't feel like Rey's growth in the Force throughout the film is clearly tied in with any separate character growth she undergoes. True. When I was writing that I tried to give a parallel example of Rey's force use and I couldn't come up with anything. Her character arc is a bit muddled and her use of the force is similarly missing a consistent thread. Instead of growing throughout the film, say making peace with the past and embracing the force, a binary switch is flipped 10 minutes from the end of the film. Except, after using the force to free herself from captivity(symbolism!) and literally drawing the sword from the stone(snow), she has to have another belated moment where she learns to trust the force.
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Feb 28, 2016 17:50
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Canemacar posted:True. When I was writing that I tried to give a parallel example of Rey's force use and I couldn't come up with anything. Her character arc is a bit muddled and her use of the force is similarly missing a consistent thread. Instead of growing throughout the film, say making peace with the past and embracing the force, a binary switch is flipped 10 minutes from the end of the film. Except, after using the force to free herself from captivity(symbolism!) and literally drawing the sword from the stone(snow), she has to have another belated moment where she learns to trust the force. The symbolism when she first uses the mind trick isn't that strong anyway. Like, what? The chair represents Jakku? And Rey comically mind-tricking a cretinous stormtrooper into undoing her restraints represents.....uh....her letting go of Jakku? Yeah, I don't really buy it. But yeah, the sword in the stone symbolism is on point. The question is, why has she suddenly, just now, become worthy of pulling the sword out of the stone? Taking the concept of the Force itself completely out of the equation, what about her character has actually changed? Nothing really substantial. I mean, she's been put into a situation where she has to take charge and use her abilities to save Finn from death....but that's exactly the dynamic that's been in place between them since they first met. Rey's always been a heroic, take-charge kind of gal. I mean, this shot really says it all:  It's probably my favorite shot of the entire movie, since it so strongly visually communicates who Rey is as a character. The problem is, that character never changes. Rey starts off the movie as a strong, self-actualized person, and also ends the movie as a strong, self-actualized person. Her inability to leave Jakku behind emotionally is supposed to be her big defining character flaw. But this is only ever expressed occasionally through a few tossed-off lines of dialogue, and then at all other times it's forgotten. The only time it ever causes Rey to stumble as a character is when the script comes up with an incredibly contrived Refusal of the Call situation for her. Rey literally hears the script calling to her in Maz's Castle, finds a box which inexplicably contains a magic, talking, exposition-delivering lightsaber which was last seen disappearing into a bottomless pit thirty years ago, and is then suddenly overcome with the impulse to run wildly into the woods and right into Kylo Ren's arms. I know this is Star Wars and all, but this is really really clumsy, contrived writing. Like, way beyond anything in any of the original movies. It's the one thing about TFA that I will say is downright, cringe-inducingly horrible. It's just bad. And that's our big moment of insight into Rey's inner emotional life. Which is then later paid off with the sword in the stone moment, even though that moment has absolutely no conceivable thing to do with her Jakku hang-ups. It has a lot to do with the talking lightsaber, but the only reason the talking lightsaber represents her Jakku hang-ups is because the script stuck an arbitrary label on it, like the cinematic equivalent of a lazy political cartoon. There's no real reason for Luke Skwyalker's lightsaber to mean anything to Rey. The only reason it does is because the script decided to ham-handedly tell us that it does, suddenly, in a contrived scene occurring halfway through the movie. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Feb 28, 2016 |
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Feb 28, 2016 19:51
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computer parts posted:Subverting expectations would've been something like Kylo Ren capturing Rey and dragging her back to Starkiller...when they find out that the Resistance already blew it up before they got there. How about having Rey behead Kylo during the fight in the snow, snarling with anger and only barely in control, then recover enough (after being hailed and reassured by comrades who weren't there during the fight) to be sent to Luke filled with ambition, surprise at her capabilities and a heavy helping of self loathing. It would reprise elements of the Anakin story, but then the whole movie is a sort of reprise, and it would certainly run counter to expectations. If you wanted to venture further off the beaten path, in light of those Kill Bill stairs at the end, you could have her meet a fallen and embittered Luke and then begin training with him, with uncertain results to come in the next movie.
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Feb 28, 2016 20:08
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Those are some great ideas for making the movie worse. Well done.
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Feb 28, 2016 20:15
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E: nvm
Red Dad Redemption fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Feb 28, 2016 |
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Feb 28, 2016 21:25
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Imagine watching Galaxy Quest....without knowing about Star Trek (and on mute) Wrap it up, Farce Awakeners.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:39
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Neurolimal posted:Imagine watching Galaxy Quest....without knowing about Star Trek (and on mute) I did (well not on mute) and it was still pretty cool.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:48
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computer parts posted:I did (well not on mute) and it was still pretty cool. I didn't have a great memory of Star Wars before TFA and loved it. In fact I'm certain someone with 0 Star Wars knowledge would be interested in the ambiguous but interesting old characters, cool ship designs, and visually appealing planet environments. My general point was that it's pretty silly to say "this episodic series entry that commentates on its fandom should be judged in a vacuum".
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Feb 28, 2016 21:55
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Hit submit by mistake. Post is under construction.
Canemacar fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Feb 29, 2016 |
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Feb 28, 2016 23:49
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Galaxy Quest is already a good movie independent of Star Trek, called The Three Amigos.
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Feb 29, 2016 00:20
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Canemacar posted:Despite being largely a remake of ANH, it's treatment of the force is far more in line with ESB's. Kylo stops blaster bolts in mid-flight("You're saying I can dodge bullets?" "No. I'm saying that when you're ready, you won't have to."); removes people's ability to control their own bodies; and is able to dominate people's minds whether to torture them, invade their memories, or force them to sleep. He spends the entire movie enforcing his will on everything and everyone around him even as he himself is unsure of who he is or what he wants. There's a pretty major difference between Neo's realization that the bullets cannot hurt him if he does not fear them, and what happens in TFA. The former is a familiar concept from Nightmare On Elm Street, Galaxy Of Terror, and that gunslinger episode of Star Trek... What you have with Ren blocking the bullet is a straightforward metaphor: he's powerful, unstable, liable to snap at any moment - just like a bullet held back by a leash. But there's otherwise no logic to it - neither the OT's "it's all in your head" nor the PT's psychic-mutant literalism. Neurolimal posted:I didn't have a great memory of Star Wars before TFA and loved it. In fact I'm certain someone with 0 Star Wars knowledge would be interested in the ambiguous but interesting old characters, cool ship designs, and visually appealing planet environments. You still haven't explained what you believe the film to be subverting.
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Feb 29, 2016 00:29
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Cnut the Great posted:The symbolism when she first uses the mind trick isn't that strong anyway. Like, what? The chair represents Jakku? And Rey comically mind-tricking a cretinous stormtrooper into undoing her restraints represents.....uh....her letting go of Jakku? Yeah, I don't really buy it. True, it's not. I was trying to highlight a big missed opportunity to tie her force "awakening" to her moving past the Jakku baggage by literally using the force to escape from bondage. Seems like a no brainer. Cnut the Great posted:But yeah, the sword in the stone symbolism is on point. The question is, why has she suddenly, just now, become worthy of pulling the sword out of the stone? Taking the concept of the Force itself completely out of the equation, what about her character has actually changed? Nothing really substantial. I think this is what was at the root of the Mary Sue accusations when the film first came out. She doesn't really have enough of an arc to fail, be challenged, or have to work to improve herself in any way. That combined with the break-neck pace of the film causes Rey to go from basically the same as when we first saw her to mind-tricking people and out-dueling Kylo within 10 minutes. It's such a sudden shift that it feels artificial. It would be like if we saw Luke go from whining about Toche station and playing with model ships to immediately blowing up the Death Star. Cnut the Great posted:I mean, she's been put into a situation where she has to take charge and use her abilities to save Finn from death....but that's exactly the dynamic that's been in place between them since they first met. Rey's always been a heroic, take-charge kind of gal. I mean, this shot really says it all: I'm pretty forgiving of TFA because I know a lot of their focus was on establishing the "new" Star Wars under Disney and the pressure from the suits must have been unimaginable, but it was really light on character and world-building. Finn is pretty much the only one with a character arc and, aside from Jakku and Starkiller base, none of the environments have much of an identity. My great hope is that Rian will slow things way down in Episode VIII and give us some real development. Skipping over the Rey and Luke stuff would be downright criminal given the mystery and hints dropped in TFA. As an aside, would you say that perhaps Finn's character has run it's course like Harrison Ford was saying about how Han's journey was complete in ESB? SuperMechagodzilla posted:There's a pretty major difference between Neo's realization that the bullets cannot hurt him if he does not fear them, and what happens in TFA. The former is a familiar concept from Nightmare On Elm Street, Galaxy Of Terror, and that gunslinger episode of Star Trek... I'd say the Matrix comparison is a valid one. Neo realizing the bullets couldn't hurt him wasn't because he learned they weren't real- Morpheus knew the Matrix wasn't real but would still die from being shot. What set Neo apart was him learning to shed his preconceptions about how things should be and to exert his will on the world around him. Just like Luke did with Yoda. Luke thought the X-wing was too heavy to lift and that was why he failed. Yoda knew that it didn't matter how heavy the ship should be and so he could. A lot of Kylo's force use does convey an undercurrent of sniffled energy. Poe and Rey both bristle when he invades their mind, and the people he holds in stasis struggle against it. There is a logic though; it's an extension of his emotional state same as the unstable lightsaber he carries. He's a maladjusted teenager who found his grandfather's gun. It gives him the sense of power and control he craves, so he waves it around carelessly. This plays into his interrogation with Rey. During the conversation, he tells the bound woman that he can just "take what he wants." He's the nerd who never had a girlfriend, but with his Canemacar fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Feb 29, 2016 |
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Feb 29, 2016 00:52
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Cnut the Great posted:The only time it ever causes Rey to stumble as a character is when the script comes up with an incredibly contrived Refusal of the Call situation for her. The Force manifests in ways that appear to be chance ("in my experience, there's no such thing as luck"). She Refuses the Call when Han backhandedly offers her a co-pilot position. She Refuses the Call again with the lightsaber thing. Does she deny the Force three times?
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Feb 29, 2016 01:06
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While a strong moment, I feel not enough came from this. Finn repeatedly takes her hand and she yells at him, not realizing it was for his benefit not her's. She reaches out to take his hand, but still doesn't see through his act.
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Feb 29, 2016 01:10
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Cnut the Great posted:You can't destroy the influence of the Force without also destroying all life. It's a nonsensical concept. It's not as if killing God is some kind of strange unthinkable thing, though. Cnut the Great posted:But yeah, the sword in the stone symbolism is on point. The question is, why has she suddenly, just now, become worthy of pulling the sword out of the stone? Taking the concept of the Force itself completely out of the equation, what about her character has actually changed? Nothing really substantial. When Rey was first offered the lightsaber, she had essentially finished her mission. Everyone was safe, BB-8 was going to go home, Finn had chosen his path. There was absolutely no reason for Rey to take an old lightsaber -- one that literally caused her to relive the biggest trauma of her life -- and go off to find Luke or whatever Maz wanted her to do instead of simply going back to Jakku like she was compelled to. But then an extraordinary thing happens in Rey's life; someone she cared about actually came back for her, just like she's always wanted, and abolishes any remaining emotional hangups Rey had about embracing her greater destiny. Also, Han Solo just got killed and she is angry about it. Anger gives power. All incredibly logical. Cnut the Great posted:The only time it ever causes Rey to stumble as a character is when the script comes up with an incredibly contrived Refusal of the Call situation for her. Rey literally hears the script calling to her in Maz's Castle, finds a box which inexplicably contains a magic, talking, exposition-delivering lightsaber which was last seen disappearing into a bottomless pit thirty years ago, and is then suddenly overcome with the impulse to run wildly into the woods and right into Kylo Ren's arms. I know this is Star Wars and all, but this is really really clumsy, contrived writing. Like, way beyond anything in any of the original movies. It's the one thing about TFA that I will say is downright, cringe-inducingly horrible. It's just bad.
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Feb 29, 2016 01:39
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
It's set up to appear to be a return to Old Star Wars, when in reality not only is it New Star Wars, but characters and imagery from Old Star Wars repeatedly fails when opposing New Star Wars. It leads the viewers into believing that they're going to watch what they think they want (a nostalgic trip with a derivative story) and not only doesn't go in that direction, but actively persuades the audience into giving new Star Wars ideas a chance. How much talk do you see about Han Solo outside his death and Ford's enjoyment, or C3PO, or Leia? How much do you see about Hux, Kylo, Knights of Ren, Poe, Finn, Rey, BB-8, etcetera?
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Feb 29, 2016 02:06
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Neurolimal posted:It's set up to appear to be a return to Old Star Wars, when in reality not only is it New Star Wars, but characters and imagery from Old Star Wars repeatedly fails when opposing New Star Wars. It leads the viewers into believing that they're going to watch what they think they want (a nostalgic trip with a derivative story) and not only doesn't go in that direction, but actively persuades the audience into giving new Star Wars ideas a chance. The Millennium Falcon, Anakin's lightsaber, and Vader's mask don't fail.
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Feb 29, 2016 02:24
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homullus posted:The Millennium Falcon, Anakin's lightsaber, and Vader's mask don't fail. The first one (piloted by New Star Wars, and I think the gunner pod is new? Don't remember it from OT) succeeds against Old Star Wars vehicles and troops. I guess you have a point about the saber, Vader's mask depends on how Ren develops.
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Feb 29, 2016 02:27
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Luke uses the gun in episode 4
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Feb 29, 2016 03:02
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Neurolimal, people would take your criticism of SMG more seriously if you didn't literally have more posts than him in the star wars Cinema Discusso thread while also being so blithely, demonstrably unconcerned with the actual contents of said movies like drat
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