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I remember reading about how on the Lewis and Clark expedition, they met up with some natives who decided that they were cool guys and worth throwing a party for. Said party consisted of lighting a bunch of trees on fire and watching them explode.
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Feb 29, 2016 07:15
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Its so dependent on many factors- severity of the fire, geographical location, weather at the time- The idea is that its more to provide a refuge for YOU as the occupant so you can survive the passage of a bushfire going across your property- Its radiant heat that kills people, rather than smoke, so if you can get out of that heat in a building, your chances of survival are much much higher. Hence why you want the house to survive as long as possible. The energy in the radiant heat isnt anything to laugh at either- my house in a small country town just outside of Adelaide is rated at BAL (Bushfire Attack Level) 12.5, which means that the house has been built to survive a fire thats putting out 12.5KW of energy for every meter of fire front- so across the 30m width of my block, my house has to withstand 375KW of radiant heat energy without burning to the ground. However, my parents place further into the bushland (theyre on a small farm not far from here) is a BAL40- so their house is built a LOT more resiliant to fires. For me, it just meant things like using hardwood doors and frames, aluminiuim flyscreens instead of fiberglass, all glass within 400mm of the ground is toughened rather than standard glass, i cant have any gap in the external cladding greater than 3mm and my gutters must have a gutter mesh to keep leaves from building up. When you step up to BAL40, you have to do things like must have a sprinkler system on the house, minimum water storages, access for fire vehicles and if your in an area where you will get direct flame contact with your house, your at the stage of bronze flyscreens, all glass is toughened, steel door frames, no external timber and things like that on top of everything else. Its all come about because its been demonstrated in numerous cases that its not generally direct flame contact that sets your house on fire and burns it to the ground, its ember attack- Most of the houses in the 2003 Canberra bushfires were lost to ember attack, where you get little burning embers blowing into gaps in the house and smouldering and smouldering until it sets the entire loving thing on fire. By having a sprinkler system it helps you maintain that defensive space around your home where you can reduce the ember attack on your house and hopefully survive. We certainly dont do all of this to save the houses, they can burn down for all we care. What we do it for is so people can use the house to shelter for the 20-30 mins it takes for a bushfire to pass, and then they can either just gently caress off out of there or stay and put out spot fires around the house and keep defending it. And they arent kidding about what our bushfires do, our entire continent EVOLVED to be flammable, and it takes maximum advantage of that... 2003 Canberra bushfires. The fires were so ferocious and intense that it spawned a fire tornado that tore roofs off houses, then filled them with embers and burnt them down. 4 lives lost, more than 500 homes destroyed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqYEeivt8Eg 2009 Black Saturday Bushfires. Mixture of lightning strikes and arson set fire to a MASSIVE area of victoria- 1.1 Million acres of land was burnt in more than 400 individual fires. 173 people died, 3500 homes and structures were destroyed. Currently stands as the worst bushfire in recorded history in Australia. The fire moved with such speed and intensity that nothing escaped- It set fire to the tar in the roads, melted the aluminium street signs... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT0u7JrmlxQ I spent a week over in Victoria putting out the fires... a MONTH after the fires started, and there were two more weeks of deployment after that before rains finally appeared and put it out. 2015 Sampson Flat Bushfires- 27 houses, 49,000 acres. Fortunately this one didn't kill anyone, but it was insane to work on. Normally when you get a bushfire you'll get a defined head fire being pushed by the wind and then flanks and backing fires from that. Because of the topography, Sampson flat was expanding in all directs at the same rate. (dunno if this vijeo will work, its off my mates facebook account) https://www.facebook.com/timothy.c.howard/videos/10205947677155318/ 2016 Pinery Bushfire. This one was a shocker- It was an odd one because it was up in the Mid North of South Australia, so it was all cropping land rather than scrub. When the fire started, it travelled south easterly with a north east wind behind it and it was insane- 100kph was recorded. It travelled 40kms in about 4hrs. THEN the wind turned to the south east as a cold front rolled over the state and we went from a fire that had a front about 1km wide and 40km flanks to a fire that had a 40km long fire front and it took off HARD., In 12hrs it had burnt 202,000 acres of scrub, 91 homes were lost, 2 people were killed and millions of dollars of livestock, crops and machinery were destroyed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COCc36sVXcY (pure wank media video but it shows how loving insane this was...) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioYGFIvNScg and yes, All of us here think that Californians are loving stupid for not having ANY bushfire prevention systems whatsoever....
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Feb 29, 2016 08:56
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Ferremit posted:and yes, All of us here think that Californians are loving stupid for not having ANY bushfire prevention systems whatsoever.... As a blanket statement this is kind of silly, because California has a huge number of different kinds of terrain and only a specific part of it is prone to catching on fire. But I can't claim that we aren't loving stupid either, because we do keep building McMansions in areas that used to be zoned as "don't loving build here, dumbass" until someone lobbied to override the building restriction. Because gently caress safety, I want my awesome huge house and giant yard, and that means building where nobody else is building. Even if nobody else builds there because it keeps catching on fire (or falling into the ocean, or getting flooded out, etc.).
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Feb 29, 2016 15:55
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:catching on fire (or falling into the ocean, or getting flooded out, etc.). If all of those happen at once, they cancel each other out, yeah?
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Feb 29, 2016 16:17
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peanut posted:Hello construction thread. Now I'm scared of basements and glad they don't exist in my area. The lighter shades compliment the load bearing drywall most builders have perfected on new construction. Whichever shade you go with, please go out and take lots of pictures for us during the build process so we can advise you on how to best match the shades of mold caused by incorrect vapor barrier installation. Ashcans posted:I have some pictures from when my parents had a house built (in Kenya). I have considered posting them here to see how bad the reactions are, but I am not sure I want to know the truth. Please do! 
Catatron Prime fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Feb 29, 2016 |
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Feb 29, 2016 16:41
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Safety Dance posted:If all of those happen at once, they cancel each other out, yeah? I bet the insurance wouldn't cover if it did - they're probably two contradicting clauses for just such a purpose.
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Feb 29, 2016 16:57
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Motronic posted:Putting clothes hangers through wall mounted sprinklers in hotel rooms is probably the #1 "malfunction". As a partially related tangent: One time my rifle team was headed to a competition at the Naval Academy in Annapolis, and we were passed on the highway by a bunch of firetrucks, that all exited at the same exit we were going to. We didn't think much of it, until we got to the campus, and found out we couldn't shoot yet, because someone had set their pellet rifle off pointing up in the air, and it shot the sprinkler head, which flooded the range. 
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Mar 1, 2016 00:11
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How's a firetruck going to put out water
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Mar 1, 2016 00:50
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^^^ Sprinklers going off sends a signal to the fire station and they send trucks regardless of if there is a fire or not. Better to get there and immediately turn back then let a fire burn for however long it would take to confirm it's not a false alarm. TooMuchAbstraction posted:As a blanket statement this is kind of silly, because California has a huge number of different kinds of terrain and only a specific part of it is prone to catching on fire. But I can't claim that we aren't loving stupid either, because we do keep building McMansions in areas that used to be zoned as "don't loving build here, dumbass" until someone lobbied to override the building restriction. Because gently caress safety, I want my awesome huge house and giant yard, and that means building where nobody else is building. Even if nobody else builds there because it keeps catching on fire (or falling into the ocean, or getting flooded out, etc.). I'm remembering something about giant lawns are huge wastes of water but needed firebreaks but...
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Mar 1, 2016 00:56
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moist turtleneck posted:How's a firetruck going to put out water With fire obviously, why do you think they call it a fire truck
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Mar 1, 2016 01:43
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Ferremit posted:2009 Black Saturday Bushfires. Mixture of lightning strikes and arson set fire to a MASSIVE area of victoria- 1.1 Million acres of land was burnt in more than 400 individual fires. 173 people died, 3500 homes and structures were destroyed. Currently stands as the worst bushfire in recorded history in Australia. The fire moved with such speed and intensity that nothing escaped- It set fire to the tar in the roads, melted the aluminium street signs... I remember this one particularly well despite living in the inner city, everything was grey and smoke flavoured for ages. Also didnt help that the temperatures were insane, hitting 45'c and remaining over 40'c for four days in a row.
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Mar 1, 2016 01:52
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I find it curious that Australia has those kind of regulations. Is it only for new construction? When I was in Brisbane for a couple of years there were firetrap Queenslander type houses everywhere, +/- asbestos in the wall. We had fire safety briefings as part of school orientation and the Fire Marshall/whatever he was asked who lived in a Queenslander. Then he went on a rant about how we should all move out of them and they're fiery death traps etc. Only found about the asbestos when my (also American) was bitching about having to go buy a drill to hang some pictures. All the Australians in the room basically shouted at once not to do it. Something about "fibro houses" full of asbestos. The place also had the bonus of a detached, outdoor toilet. Last bit he didn't notice, he just assumed it was a bonus toilet until he got up to piss one night and realized there was no toilet in the bathroom.
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Mar 1, 2016 21:39
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Uuuuuuh, how were you guys going to the bathroom before that til you noticed?
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Mar 1, 2016 21:42
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SynthOrange posted:Uuuuuuh, how were you guys going to the bathroom before that til you noticed?
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Mar 1, 2016 21:55
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Not sure what thread is best to ask this. We're considering building a home. Besides asking around / referrals, how do I pick a home builder to avoid being featured here? Any questions you'd ask?
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Mar 1, 2016 22:12
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Gounads posted:Not sure what thread is best to ask this. Ask the builder whether he has stairs in his house and whether he would like to be featured on the interwebs!
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Mar 1, 2016 22:13
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Gounads posted:Not sure what thread is best to ask this. Ask him to show you some of his previous work. Then find out as much as you can about the houses they built, maybe even speak to what ever inspector signed off on it.
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Mar 1, 2016 22:24
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Gounads posted:Not sure what thread is best to ask this. Do you know anyone who's built anything or had any additions done? Find out who did theirs and what they think. Check how long they've been in business, longer is generally better. Check online reviews. A lot of good contractors will have a list of recent/featured projects they did and are proud of, you can go check those out too. Also who ever is designing your house might have some insight too, be they an architect or just a "building designer". Also make sure your house looks nice and isn't a tasteless mish-mash of tending suburuban styles clad in what ever's cheapest. It's hard though, so many contractors are lovely, or mean well but end up subcontracting to lovely people. Avoid any sort of big corporate house building company, get an actual contractor, avoid anyone who mostly works on tract houses.
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Mar 1, 2016 22:28
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Gounads posted:We're considering building a home. Besides asking around / referrals, how do I pick a home builder to avoid being featured here? Any questions you'd ask? Look for "green" builders, and put a maximum ACH50 blower door test result in the contract. Designing & building super-insulated homes requires a strong understanding of building science, and getting an ACH50 of 1.0 or less requires serious attention to detail. Even if you don't go "net-zero ready" (IMO you should, but that's a separate matter), anyone who can do it is performing at a quality far beyond the typical tract home builder.
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Mar 1, 2016 22:35
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Zhentar posted:Look for "green" builders, and put a maximum ACH50 blower door test result in the contract. Designing & building super-insulated homes requires a strong understanding of building science, and getting an ACH50 of 1.0 or less requires serious attention to detail. Even if you don't go "net-zero ready" (IMO you should, but that's a separate matter), anyone who can do it is performing at a quality far beyond the typical tract home builder. Have builders gotten better at making those super airtight homes less moldy?
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Mar 2, 2016 01:00
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SynthOrange posted:Uuuuuuh, how were you guys going to the bathroom before that til you noticed? It was move in night. It was one of those things were we saw the bathroom, saw that it had a sink, saw that it had a tub and must have mentally edited the toilet in. The landlord showed us the outside toilet and we thought it was like a bonus toilet or whatever until then.
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Mar 2, 2016 02:25
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kid sinister posted:Have builders gotten better at making those super airtight homes less moldy? Add a dehumidifier and positive pressure. Have your garage double as a cleanroom.
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Mar 2, 2016 02:36
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Gounads posted:Not sure what thread is best to ask this. Link payments to completion of building objectives. Don't just keep giving them money without results.
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Mar 2, 2016 02:55
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The Gardenator posted:Link payments to completion of building objectives. Don't just keep giving them money without results. In my experience, last steps of whatever objective are going to be rushed like they are on fire. I worked for a GC who negotiated a similar deal and we prioritized those milestones on the job site, while ignoring or delaying other tasks. It was a shitshow to say the least. He ultimately ended up getting fired from the project.
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Mar 2, 2016 03:09
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canyoneer posted:Add a dehumidifier and positive pressure. Yeah no poo poo, it's not expensive to put in a whole home dehumidifier especially at build. gently caress, add an air cleaner, ventilator, humidifier and a stat controlling them all while you're at it.
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Mar 2, 2016 03:17
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Nitrox posted:In my experience, last steps of whatever objective are going to be rushed like they are on fire. I worked for a GC who negotiated a similar deal and we prioritized those milestones on the job site, while ignoring or delaying other tasks. It was a shitshow to say the least. He ultimately ended up getting fired from the project.
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Mar 2, 2016 03:22
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Thanks for all the advice. The Gardenator posted:Link payments to completion of building objectives. Don't just keep giving them money without results. Bank requires that for the construction loan, have to pay for a bank inspector to come out each milestone too. kid sinister posted:Have builders gotten better at making those super airtight homes less moldy? My question too, I'm really sensitive to allergens. Found out today the land is ours if we want it and the bank pre-approval came in, so.. it might actually be happening. Spent the day looking at plans. I'll probably start a thread to document the process.
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Mar 2, 2016 03:26
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Gounads posted:Found out today the land is ours if we want it and the bank pre-approval came in, so.. it might actually be happening. Spent the day looking at plans. I'll probably start a thread to document the process. Good luck! Please link the thread here if/when you start it.
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Mar 2, 2016 03:43
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canyoneer posted:Add a dehumidifier and positive pressure. Have your garage double as a cleanroom. If the HVAC is properly sized and a proper dry-in is done there isn't a "moldy" problem. AC is a dehumidifier. A proper engineer and architect knows it's better to undersize a bit so that the AC runs more. The opposite causes the AC to run in bursts and it doesn't dehumidify the air (it lowers the temperature quickly and doesn't change over the air) as well. This is where hopefully the person sizing it realizes actual R-values versus the nominal ones. Ex. An R-20 SIP would perform better than a normal batt filled wall even at R-30. And this: Zhentar posted:Look for "green" builders, and put a maximum ACH50 blower door test result in the contract. Designing & building super-insulated homes requires a strong understanding of building science, and getting an ACH50 of 1.0 or less requires serious attention to detail. Even if you don't go "net-zero ready" (IMO you should, but that's a separate matter), anyone who can do it is performing at a quality far beyond the typical tract home builder. ... is utter horseshit. Blower door testing is becoming the norm because it's part of the International codes that are the basis of most US codes now. If it's required in your area, they'll do it. And your home can be "net-zero" with just a poo poo-ton of PV panels on the roof. My last firm had a deal with a local "tract home" builder that made garden variety houses. Absolutely nothing special except they manipulated every possible credit and tax incentive to put as many PV panels as possible up on the roof. You can make a normal builder home and it'll be "net-zero" in a year with enough panels on the roof. Gounads posted:Found out today the land is ours if we want it and the bank pre-approval came in, so.. it might actually be happening. Spent the day looking at plans. I'll probably start a thread to document the process. I'm incredibly biased because I'm an Architect, but go to an Architect. Architects are going to be easier to evaluate in a "cold" situation because they'll generally be better on having example works. You can go to some GC's first and ask what they're getting in general for prices, but selecting a GC before the designer locks you in. What incentive will the GC have to give you the best price if you don't bid it? Going to an Architect that deals with homes in your area should know multiple contractors that can bid it and do good work. If you choose to forgo an Architect realize that you're at the mercy of the GC. An engineer doing home plans sure as hell won't visit the site to check their doing it right, a GC with "in-house designers" is often even worse. They may be great you may also get a contractor that will undercut everywhere to increase his profit... or one who will change order the ever living crap out of you. A good Architect doesn't recommend these people because it messes with their own business. For the GC, whichever way you decide to go. Ask for pictures of recent projects and references. Insist that you have a supervisor assigned to your project. Direct oversight is important. The lovely stuff that happens is usually subs who don't know better and don't care. If someone is on their rear end they don't slack and do a better job.
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Mar 2, 2016 04:49
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xwing posted:
This. When my parents had their addition built, the architect they worked with had several contractors they regularly worked with submit bids for the project and walked my parents through their choices. If you get a GC yourself and they screw you over...well how many times in your life do you build a house? Your architect, on the other hand, does lots of business with them and can put the hurt on if their customers get screwed.
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Mar 2, 2016 05:46
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kid sinister posted:Have builders gotten better at making those super airtight homes less moldy? Yes. There are several popular approaches that work quite well. canyoneer posted:Add a dehumidifier and positive pressure. Have your garage double as a cleanroom. At least in cold climates, positive pressure can contribute to mold problems (in winter, relatively moist interior air forced outwards can condense in the sheathing). xwing posted:If the HVAC is properly sized and a proper dry-in is done there isn't a "moldy" problem. AC is a dehumidifier. A proper engineer and architect knows it's better to undersize a bit so that the AC runs more. The opposite causes the AC to run in bursts and it doesn't dehumidify the air (it lowers the temperature quickly and doesn't change over the air) as well. This is where hopefully the person sizing it realizes actual R-values versus the nominal ones. Ex. An R-20 SIP would perform better than a normal batt filled wall even at R-30. AC dehumidification does little to help with mold risks. In cold climates, the highest risk of mold is in early spring, when it's above freezing (and winter condensation in sheathing melts; if there is too much condensation or it's too slow to dry, mold will grow), well before it is warm enough to need air conditioning. In warm climates, the risk is exterior air condensing on cool interior surfaces; that air never goes through the AC so it won't ever be dehumidified. xwing posted:... is utter horseshit. Blower door testing is becoming the norm because it's part of the International codes that are the basis of most US codes now. If it's required in your area, they'll do it. And your home can be "net-zero" with just a poo poo-ton of PV panels on the roof. My last firm had a deal with a local "tract home" builder that made garden variety houses. Absolutely nothing special except they manipulated every possible credit and tax incentive to put as many PV panels as possible up on the roof. You can make a normal builder home and it'll be "net-zero" in a year with enough panels on the roof. No IBC edition requires a 1.0 ACH50. The strictest that has been adopted in the US is a 3.0, and even that isn't widely adopted (or enforced). And I said net zero ready because that implies a home designed to have low loads; PV need not be present (I also said it because there isn't any official standard that targets the level I would recommend; most standards, including the EPA "Zero Energy Ready" standard, don't go far enough, and then Passivhaus standards go too far).
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Mar 2, 2016 06:45
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Zhentar posted:AC dehumidification does little to help with mold risks. In cold climates, the highest risk of mold is in early spring, when it's above freezing (and winter condensation in sheathing melts; if there is too much condensation or it's too slow to dry, mold will grow), well before it is warm enough to need air conditioning. In warm climates, the risk is exterior air condensing on cool interior surfaces; that air never goes through the AC so it won't ever be dehumidified. If properly designed and built mold is a complete non-issue. If the vapor barrier is placed at the proper spot and everything is done as it should you won't have mold issues. The only places I've ever been in with mold had other serious construction issues that were causing mold. Moisture shouldn't condense in the sheathing, there should be proper cavities for weeping moisture and a vapor barrier properly installed. And then during construction the contractor needs to simply not be an idiot... like cover any wood being used on the project so it doesn't get wet. Yes, 1.0 ACH50 is strict... and causes it's own issues! There might have to be mechanical ventilation to compensate for the tightness of the construction. You're right though that it's mostly been ignored. They delayed it for a year here in Florida because it is IMO too strict and ruins small project costs.
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Mar 2, 2016 15:01
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xwing posted:If properly designed and built mold is a complete non-issue. If the vapor barrier is placed at the proper spot and everything is done as it should you won't have mold issues. The only places I've ever been in with mold had other serious construction issues that were causing mold. Moisture shouldn't condense in the sheathing, there should be proper cavities for weeping moisture and a vapor barrier properly installed. And then during construction the contractor needs to simply not be an idiot... like cover any wood being used on the project so it doesn't get wet. As you raise the level of insulation, it gets harder to avoid mold; simply putting in a vapor barrier is not always sufficient (nor is it always necessary). In a cold climate, you will get condensation in sheathing unless you put enough continuous rigid insulation over it to keep it above the dew point all winter. The question is just how much condensation and how quickly it can dry. xwing posted:Yes, 1.0 ACH50 is strict... and causes it's own issues! There might have to be mechanical ventilation to compensate for the tightness of the construction. Yes, you definitely want mechanical ventilation at that point. The cost of it can often be more than offset by reductions in heating/cooling sizing.
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Mar 2, 2016 17:29
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Zhentar posted:As you raise the level of insulation, it gets harder to avoid mold; simply putting in a vapor barrier is not always sufficient (nor is it always necessary). In a cold climate, you will get condensation in sheathing unless you put enough continuous rigid insulation over it to keep it above the dew point all winter. The question is just how much condensation and how quickly it can dry. There was a test done where they cooled a house below 20 celsius during a hot summer day and that got the dew point to the vapor barrier causing it to get moldy
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Mar 2, 2016 18:32
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Jusupov posted:There was a test done where they cooled a house below 20 celsius during a hot summer day and that got the dew point to the vapor barrier causing it to get moldy I briefly read this as they cooled it to minus 20 Celsius, and was wondering what kind of horrific house-sized freezer system they had just lying around to play with.
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Mar 2, 2016 19:08
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I was browsing diy failure and came across this. I don't understand. http://i.imgur.com/BHKp1ZX
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Mar 2, 2016 20:15
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Zhentar posted:unless you put enough continuous rigid insulation over it to keep it above the dew point all winter. What type of wall assembly are you talking about? The higher effective insulation assemblies I'm aware of always include rigid insulation. EX: Siding, furring, rigid insulation, building paper, sheathing, studs with blown in insulation and finally GWB. Jusupov posted:There was a test done where they cooled a house below 20 celsius during a hot summer day and that got the dew point to the vapor barrier causing it to get moldy 20 degrees Celsius is pretty cold. Uncomfortable for most people.
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Mar 2, 2016 20:33
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xwing posted:20 degrees Celsius is pretty cold. Uncomfortable for most people. That's a joke, right? That's about 68 degrees Fahrenheit.
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Mar 2, 2016 20:45
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xwing posted:20 degrees Celsius is pretty cold. Uncomfortable for most people. This is pretty much your normal Finnish summer. It's around -2 - +2 outside now and I'm wearing a t-shirt.
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Mar 2, 2016 20:48
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20-21 is typical indoor temperature though??? Are people sitting in their house naked expecting to be perfectly warm? Where I'm from you wear pants, a shirt, socks, maybe even a little "home sweater" and slippers or "home shoes" of some sort to stay comfortable. Then if temperatures get to something ungodly like 25 you can strip those off while complaining about the heat wave on social media.
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Mar 2, 2016 20:51
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