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Pimpmust
Oct 1, 2008

The 1.45 AI mod tweaks certain enemies reaction to mimic beacons, either to treat them as any soldier rather than a piority or to ignore them entirely(?). Like Captains, MECs, Codex and Gatekeepers. Chryssalids might smell the difference too?

Mimic beacons would be a little more balanced if it was split into two, a beacon that tricks biologicals and one that tricks AI - and didn't come with so much health.

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PoizenJam
Dec 2, 2006

Damn!!!
It's PoizenJam!!!
I think I used maybe 1 mimic beacon in my entire ironman run. I'm guessing I just didn't notice how abuseable they are?

For ~immersion~ I don't think they should fool psionic enemies at all, and maybe not chrysalids, but I can buy them fooling humanoids and even AI. Perhaps that's a better approach to balance than splitting AI and Biological mimic beacons? We already have a few mechanics and items based around the bio vs. AI contrast, whereas I can't think of many psionic specific/exempt items.

Synthbuttrange
May 6, 2007

Wheres the mod for chrysallid boobs

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
Do your advance troopers have like four hp with five armor,? Because that's insane. Also I had to cheese a device Defense mission because of IESS+ it's health isn't balanced for being pun memes by five stunlancers.

SynthOrange posted:

Wheres the mod for chrysallid boobs

I think most people are happy with snektits. But help yourself.

peak debt
Mar 11, 2001
b& :(
Nap Ghost
Is there a way to fail a UFO intercept evasion on purpose? My soldiers are all fit, I've got fully buffed up turrets and I want to get that sweep XP.

Away all Goats
Jul 5, 2005

Goose's rebellion

peak debt posted:

Is there a way to fail a UFO intercept evasion on purpose? My soldiers are all fit, I've got fully buffed up turrets and I want to get that sweep XP.

Seems like a random chance honestly. I've had UFOs literally fly right over me as I was scanning.

Morzhovyye
Mar 2, 2013

The UFO's position in relation to the Avenger means nothing. You can be on the opposite side of the globe when Bradford pipes up and tells you "THERE'S A UFO CLOSING IN ON OUR POSITION!!!", only to fly directly into it (aka. Evasive Maneuvers) as it barrels towards you. I imagine every time you get a warning that the UFO is chasing you it rolls a 50/50 chance of taking you down.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss

🍖🍖😛🍖🍖
So I was a little disappointed that faceless appearing outside of terror missions in my custom enemy config weren't disguised, and didn't seem like much of a threat. But then I ran into a pod of 3 faceless and a viper. Pre magnetic weapons, mind you. :stare:

Synthbuttrange
May 6, 2007

Argh gently caress. I started work on putting in a baseball bat weapon and was utterly baffled by how the weapon sounds were assigned. Surely swapping the slash sound with a baseball bat crack couldnt be that hard?

Turns out they arent assigned simply by weapon in code. They're built into animations. :cripes:


And theres seperate ones for male and female soldiers :cry:

Annointed
Mar 2, 2013

Just why

Synthbuttrange
May 6, 2007

loving hell there's a lot of poo poo going into animating weapons. This is hideously complex.

edit oh god a weapon spawns a bullet object

The bullet object emits the burst fire noise thats why I couldnt find it earlier.

I mean I can see that this might make sense in a development pipeline but it doesnt make it easy for animation/sound changes

Synthbuttrange fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Mar 1, 2016

Thyrork
Apr 21, 2010

"COME PLAY MECHS M'LANCER."

Or at least use Retrograde Mini's to make cool mechs and fantasy stuff.

:awesomelon:
Slippery Tilde
Synth, you're a treasure and I hope you're making "BUT WHY?!" notes to share with others and help them along the way. :unsmith:

Synthbuttrange
May 6, 2007

Also uncovered a few things while digging around. Cato, referenced by shen, appears to have been cut pretty early and had only 4 recorded lines, all to do with geoscape stuff that Central does in the finished game. Also there's a whole bunch of tactical lines voiced by one of the devs, and a whole bunch of text to speech lines for the rest of the game's voicework. There's also some placeholder Ethereal endgame lines which is pretty much spelling poo poo out like you're a slow dumb baby. :v:

Synthbuttrange
May 6, 2007

AAAH JESUS gently caress THIS IS HORRIBLE

Fuuuuuuuck I can just tell this evolved as the project was going along arrrghhhghghhbbnnb

Synthbuttrange
May 6, 2007

Me 2 hours ago: Okay lets crack open some files and see about getting a new weapon in. How hard could it be?

I HAVE ENTERED A WORLD OF UNCEASING TORMENT.

Thyrork
Apr 21, 2010

"COME PLAY MECHS M'LANCER."

Or at least use Retrograde Mini's to make cool mechs and fantasy stuff.

:awesomelon:
Slippery Tilde
Synth's resolve is being tested in a new and exciting way! :unsmigghh:

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011
SynthOrange has panicked!

Jintor
May 19, 2014

please keep posting wordnotes

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

SynthOrange posted:

Also uncovered a few things while digging around. Cato, referenced by shen, appears to have been cut pretty early and had only 4 recorded lines, all to do with geoscape stuff that Central does in the finished game. Also there's a whole bunch of tactical lines voiced by one of the devs, and a whole bunch of text to speech lines for the rest of the game's voicework. There's also some placeholder Ethereal endgame lines which is pretty much spelling poo poo out like you're a slow dumb baby. :v:
There's a map in the SDK containing Cato's "model" assembled out of the various model parts in the game. He's the Spokesman, I guess he had a nickname at some point.

Synthbuttrange
May 6, 2007

Nah the voice was for a completely different character altogether.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

SynthOrange posted:

Nah the voice was for a completely different character altogether.
The first few lines of the Cato introduction conversation are kind of similar to the Councilman's introduction, just less formally worded and voiced by a random developer.

There's also dialogue for the Commander as a character - I think someone mentioned there's also leftovers in the Lagvenger menus from a period where you created your own Commander character?

Lunethex
Feb 4, 2013

Me llamo Sarah Brandolino, the eighth Castilian of this magnificent marriage.
If you verify the game cache does it undo all the ini edits you make?

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss

🍖🍖😛🍖🍖

SynthOrange posted:

Also uncovered a few things while digging around. Cato, referenced by shen, appears to have been cut pretty early and had only 4 recorded lines, all to do with geoscape stuff that Central does in the finished game. Also there's a whole bunch of tactical lines voiced by one of the devs, and a whole bunch of text to speech lines for the rest of the game's voicework. There's also some placeholder Ethereal endgame lines which is pretty much spelling poo poo out like you're a slow dumb baby. :v:
Can you upload them somewhere? I'm super curious.
Also possibly the Commander lines if those exist too.

EvilSlug
Dec 5, 2004
Not crazy, just evil.
^^^ If I'm thinking about the same stuff he's talking about, what he's referring to is all housed in AKBanks for the Wise engine. It isn't actually a soundfile, so to speak. He'd need to record them and then save them as something else for you to hear them. Alternately, if you have the SDK installed just go into the content browser and search the game content and sound folders for AKBanks and associated soundcues. You can rightclick the soundcue to have it play whatever is associated with it in the various soundbanks.

RBA Starblade posted:

I'm not sure what you mean by redscreen though.
It's a debug code that pops whenever something in the game doesn't work correctly. Lot of times when the game is hanging up or something is taking a while to process, it is generating those codes to tell you what actually broke in the logic or animation trains, but you won't see them. Even the raw source kicks out a lot of them in normal gameplay, so adding mods can only serve to further de-stabilize things.

RBA Starblade posted:

Did anyone ever figure out what causes the screen to go black and just play a load of sound effects at once? I've seen it happen to Beagle too.
This is an artifact of the camera system. Enemies you can't see are somewhat truncated. They perform their actions, but it doesn't process those actions like it does for actors within your field of view and does not generate camera tracks for them. In the black screen Alien Movement bug, the game goes to follow something that it knows will potentially enter your FOV and does the standard, full animation train in spite of the fact that you can't actually see the actors. Causes the game to wig the hell out because it is told to follow something it cannot follow. If you notice, a large portion of the time that happens it ultimately ends with the pod or enemy unit entering your FOV. I don't know how they'll fix that, but I'm sure it is up there on their list because it happens far too often and is incredibly obnoxious.

SynthOrange posted:

Me 2 hours ago: Okay lets crack open some files and see about getting a new weapon in. How hard could it be?

I HAVE ENTERED A WORLD OF UNCEASING TORMENT.
You're already well past this point, but people putting new weapons into the game could likely benefit from Kwahn's "how to make a new weapon" tutorials. Number 3 is where he actually starts building the thing, but he has some solid advice for budding modders in his earlier videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_mcrx1ZTJE

Welcome to my world, though. The fact that all the ingame sound is AKBank dependent is a giant pain in the rear end when they don't supply tools to build proper AKBank or sound Archetype stuff. Don't even get me started on the private variables, or the "poo poo we never thought about people needing to modify", or the AKBank dependent case/switch logic for poo poo like covert or personality driven speech (meaning we as modders actually cannot access those functions). :bang: They included a soundcue for covert movement speech, but it can't be used because there is no logic for covert movement due to them building that poo poo into a switch statement that points directly to things that we cannot access or use. Also, you can't import a new voicebank archetype and you can't alter existing ones (as far as I can tell). So even though you can create new triggers and import new sounds, there is really limited functionality in that regard.

Furism
Feb 21, 2006

Live long and headbang
XP is divided among all the soldiers even if some of them are maxed right? Like, I can't get a Rookie in a squad with 5 Colonels and expect her to get crazy XP?

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss

🍖🍖😛🍖🍖

Furism posted:

XP is divided among all the soldiers even if some of them are maxed right? Like, I can't get a Rookie in a squad with 5 Colonels and expect her to get crazy XP?
As near as I remember, it's a pretty strange, vague system because XP doesn't really exist in this. Kills are XP. But each kill gives the entire squad "partial kill" XP based on class. Specialists get the most, since they're expected to do more support and fewer kills, while rangers get very little. You could track how close you are to a rank up by comparing your soldier's kills to a list of kills required by rank, but then there's no way to see all the additive kills they got from being on missions.
Either way, no, that idea won't work.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Odobenidae posted:

The UFO's position in relation to the Avenger means nothing. You can be on the opposite side of the globe when Bradford pipes up and tells you "THERE'S A UFO CLOSING IN ON OUR POSITION!!!", only to fly directly into it (aka. Evasive Maneuvers) as it barrels towards you. I imagine every time you get a warning that the UFO is chasing you it rolls a 50/50 chance of taking you down.

Officer John "Central" Bradford - A Bad Commander, A Worse Pilot

quote:

It's a debug code that pops whenever something in the game doesn't work correctly. Lot of times when the game is hanging up or something is taking a while to process, it is generating those codes to tell you what actually broke in the logic or animation trains, but you won't see them. Even the raw source kicks out a lot of them in normal gameplay, so adding mods can only serve to further de-stabilize things.

RBA Starblade posted:

Did anyone ever figure out what causes the screen to go black and just play a load of sound effects at once? I've seen it happen to Beagle too.

This is an artifact of the camera system. Enemies you can't see are somewhat truncated. They perform their actions, but it doesn't process those actions like it does for actors within your field of view and does not generate camera tracks for them. In the black screen Alien Movement bug, the game goes to follow something that it knows will potentially enter your FOV and does the standard, full animation train in spite of the fact that you can't actually see the actors. Causes the game to wig the hell out because it is told to follow something it cannot follow. If you notice, a large portion of the time that happens it ultimately ends with the pod or enemy unit entering your FOV. I don't know how they'll fix that, but I'm sure it is up there on their list because it happens far too often and is incredibly obnoxious.

Ah, thanks for the info! You're right, I did notice that with the black screen thing. The first time it happened it came back and half the map was exploded and on fire from sectopods and my proxy mines. :haw:

I wonder if despite how simple they are Evac All and Overwatch All are causing some weirdness. Suppress worked fine the last campaign, for example.

e: For reference it's lowering their aim (I think, they kept missing), but they never stop the shooting animation even after they've moved, and they never take the shot.

RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Mar 1, 2016

Fuzz
Jun 2, 2003

Avatar brought to you by the TG Sanity fund

Tom Tucker posted:

This is about the closest we'll get to stepping one foot out of the skyranger in the original XCOM and having a green blob fly from halfway across the night to melt your star-eyed rookie before he even looked around.

This, but a blaster bomb, and it goes inside the skyranger. :xcom:


Finally had a landed UFO mission. Was all excited hoping I'd get some cool new research opportunities for the Avenger or something, but nope!

I'm currently just biding time in my game trying to level up my one super Hack the Planet Specialist that somehow managed to get the +20 bonus more than once and now is rocking a 200 Hack Rating with a Skulljack equipped, by far my highest. Sadly he got Kill Zone for his AWC skill and not something extra awesome like Run and Gun or Serial, but oh well, can't have everything. My #2 Hacker can only hit 180 and has Ever Vigilant, and I've decided I'm only going to take one Specialist for the final mission, so I want to take my top dog.

I'm thinking for the final run I'll have him, one of my two Officer Gunslingers, two Grenadiers (I use lots of prox mines and acid bombs), a Rapid Fire shotgun Ranger, and one of my Magi (they both have all the powers). Not enough drat troopers (no I don't want to use the 8 man mod, the game is just right for me with the default pod sizes and that's a slippery slope with balance), I keep wanting to take another Ranger or two Specialists.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

My specialists are all dead in this campaign except the lucky medic lieutenant reward I got to replace the medic that last died. Who replaced another one. And the combat specialist died. Please shoot someone else, aliens. I need combat protocol again and everybody sucks at hacking hard now.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011

Fuzz posted:

This, but a blaster bomb, and it goes inside the skyranger. :xcom:


Finally had a landed UFO mission. Was all excited hoping I'd get some cool new research opportunities for the Avenger or something, but nope!

I'm currently just biding time in my game trying to level up my one super Hack the Planet Specialist that somehow managed to get the +20 bonus more than once and now is rocking a 200 Hack Rating with a Skulljack equipped, by far my highest. Sadly he got Kill Zone for his AWC skill and not something extra awesome like Run and Gun or Serial, but oh well, can't have everything. My #2 Hacker can only hit 180 and has Ever Vigilant, and I've decided I'm only going to take one Specialist for the final mission, so I want to take my top dog.

I'm thinking for the final run I'll have him, one of my two Officer Gunslingers, two Grenadiers (I use lots of prox mines and acid bombs), a Rapid Fire shotgun Ranger, and one of my Magi (they both have all the powers). Not enough drat troopers (no I don't want to use the 8 man mod, the game is just right for me with the default pod sizes and that's a slippery slope with balance), I keep wanting to take another Ranger or two Specialists.
The final mission is long. I would bring a gunner-specc'd Grenadier and an extra mage instead of a second Grenadier if you can.

Loel
Jun 4, 2012

"For the Emperor."

There was a terrible noise.
There was a terrible silence.



Vib Rib posted:

Modding :words: incoming.

HAPPY LANDINGS.

Awesome :D Now, I saw that you said faceless won't be in disguise on standard missions? Why is that?

Pyromancer
Apr 29, 2011

This man must look upon the fire, smell of it, warm his hands by it, stare into its heart

RBA Starblade posted:

My specialists are all dead in this campaign except the lucky medic lieutenant reward I got to replace the medic that last died. Who replaced another one. And the combat specialist died. Please shoot someone else, aliens. I need combat protocol again and everybody sucks at hacking hard now.

Are you using them as some kind of overwatch specialized front-liner? They can be perfectly safe in the back, most of their abilities don't even need the specialist to see target with own eyes, just needs line of sight.

Furism
Feb 21, 2006

Live long and headbang
Holy poo poo if you enable Kill Zone before coming out of Concealment, then break it, you get Overwatch shots on your turn AND on the enemies' turn? My sniper just had a turn where he shot 6 loving times.

Vib Rib posted:

Either way, no, that idea won't work.

Yeah I figured, that would be probably too easy to level up dudes. Oh well.

Fuzz
Jun 2, 2003

Avatar brought to you by the TG Sanity fund

Ravenfood posted:

The final mission is long. I would bring a gunner-specc'd Grenadier and an extra mage instead of a second Grenadier if you can.

Noted. Guess I should bring fewer grenades on my other troops too, then, and aim more for useful ammo types and mimic beacons for emergencies?

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011

Furism posted:

Holy poo poo if you enable Kill Zone before coming out of Concealment, then break it, you get Overwatch shots on your turn AND on the enemies' turn? My sniper just had a turn where he shot 6 loving times.

Yeah, Kill Zone lasts for one whole turn, which consists of your active turn and the enemy's. Basically if you take Kill Zone, always put an Expanded Magazine on that rifle.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011

Fuzz posted:

Noted. Guess I should bring fewer grenades on my other troops too, then, and aim more for useful ammo types and mimic beacons for emergencies?
In general, probably. I went in with 4 WAR suits, but I also went in with 3 mages and ended up not using them all because Null Lances are just so good. Cooldown-based combat limitations only work as a limiting factor if there is a mission timer, and there isn't in the finale so you can hit every pod with fully refreshed Psi-Ops.

Sloober
Apr 1, 2011

RBA Starblade posted:

My specialists are all dead in this campaign except the lucky medic lieutenant reward I got to replace the medic that last died. Who replaced another one. And the combat specialist died. Please shoot someone else, aliens. I need combat protocol again and everybody sucks at hacking hard now.

What are you doing with these guys to make them so appealing to shoot? Using half cover? Moving them to the frontline? Usually the reason any of my guys get murdered is they just flat out had a poor position, or I took a stupid 30% chance shot instead of hunkering down.

PantsBandit
Oct 26, 2007

it is both a monkey and a boombox
Yeah specialists are specifically designed to be as far away from the front line as possible. They're the one class whose abilities will work from pretty much anywhere on the map.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Pyromancer posted:

Are you using them as some kind of overwatch specialized front-liner? They can be perfectly safe in the back, most of their abilities don't even need the specialist to see target with own eyes, just needs line of sight.

No, midline, and unlucky flashbang criticals. Lately though haywire protocol has been having LOS issues so I had to move them closer. The one wouldn't be captured right now if not for that!

quote:

What are you doing with these guys to make them so appealing to shoot? Using half cover? Moving them to the frontline? Usually the reason any of my guys get murdered is they just flat out had a poor position, or I took a stupid 30% chance shot instead of hunkering down.

Getting critically hit through full cover, mostly. The one shot was completely my fault though; I shot a sectoid with DB rounds and didn't realize what my sniper had just done.

I think I have two dead specialists, one captured specialist, and a dead ranger (the ranger got doomed by the sniper I mentioned).

Commander's not going so hot but I haven't lost a mission yet, I'm a week from my exo suits, spider suits, plasmas, and battlefield medicine, and I'm in Tier 2 weapons and armor and ready for the blacksite. Five days from being able to build a psi-lab too. Really, it could be going worse. The last mission where the supressions kept bugging out was tense as poo poo between that and the LOS issues triggering two sectoids and a viper. I had to run and gun my ranger to get the item from the train to not lose, the medic got shot through full cover from a disoriented officer (gently caress). The next turn the ranger double-move slashed the viper to death (reconfirming for me that swords are pro as gently caress) then a sectoid MC'd the ranger. An extremely clutch shot on the sectoid released the ranger, who sauntered up and finished the other off. A combination of Grenadier Killzones and suppressions locked down the officer and an advent trooper (at least from hitting me, they moved wherever), until I could finish them off. The mission before, to free the same ranger from a viper (they were in the middle of a roof, it was a bad activation), I had to move a gunslinger into a completely open area to make the pistol shot to release the guy. My sniper then hit a 25% chance and shot the only thing that could hit him.

The killzone grenadier, the gunslinger (It's Lowtax :haw:), and the blademaster are carrying the campaign on their backs. I don't feel bad about reloading the one mission so only one guy got captured; it's bullshit that someone farther back activates the pod, which was already activated anyway.

RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Mar 1, 2016

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many johnnys
May 17, 2015

I like that rockets have infinite range, same as squadsight but without any kind of aim penalty (since they don't use aim).

Blue-moved a concealed ranger up to the beacon on the UFO Defense mission. Two squad-sight sniper shots nearly destroyed it, so I figured "gently caress it" and had my exo suit try a rocket from all the way back at the ramp. Bullseye, thingy destroyed, now I can use my yellow-move to start heading back to the avenger instead of waiting a turn (and hoping the chryssalids don't wander into me).

This will be useful info for missions going forward

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