Star Citizen: Big MoMA's House

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Mirificus: Oct 29, 2004; Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

Mirificus posted:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6421089/#Comment_6421089

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6421481/#Comment_6421481

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6421677/#Comment_6421677

# ? Mar 1, 2016 22:49

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 23:59

Samizdata: May 14, 2007

MilesK posted:

I've actually met a grown adult, in his 40s, who lived on expired bags of Halloween candy, bought with food stamps, and played some Star Wars mmo all day. He was actually a cool dude who shared his awful weed with me. Point is, gently caress the common excuse they need to eat. Look for a new job now. To me, anything sounds better than CIG.

Unless, I am completely mistaken (and I might well be), I am pretty sure the CIG offices are in areas with pretty brutal housing markets. These folks might not have the savings to live without a paycheck.

And I think CandyDude is more an outlier than something to base such an argument on, frankly.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 22:49

TTerrible: Jul 15, 2005

Is that Karl showing dissent

:staredog:

# ? Mar 1, 2016 22:50

Blunderstorm: Mar 1, 2016; my grandfather just posts and all i got was this lousy joke, so what

TTerrible posted:

Is that Karl showing dissent

The banning of karl will be a national holiday in the stimpire

# ? Mar 1, 2016 22:53

Blunderstorm: Mar 1, 2016; my grandfather just posts and all i got was this lousy joke, so what

Loiosh posted:

You had a nice talk with Tipp about this which covered the issues with lasers being used as direct weapons. They're not good for it (because of beam divergence, coherence of photons, and most important, slow effect). What I was referencing is things in the future when some future technology has far better ability to focus energy coherently. The point I was making, and what general relativity tells us, is that all energy is mass.

At the energy levels of *magic future weapons* you begin to encounter those issues. Remember that the reason lasers do 'only' thermal is that the electromagnetic force (whose force carrier is the virtual photon) is the second weakest of the fundamental forces. Any energy weapon of sufficient power will have kinetic energy. Mass is Energy. The more energy, the more mass, the more force required to move the energy.

Lasers have such a small kinetic component because they're (relatively) weak, based on the electromagnetic force of photon transfer. Things based on the nuclear force (fission/fusion bombs) are far more powerful. Those based on the strong force would be immensely more powerful than that. For reference, the nuclear force is the residual strong force, the energy left over from gluon/color interactions.

Here's a weird side-effect of how strong the strong force is: The binding energy of quarks is so powerful (there is so much potential energy tied up in those bonds) that when impacts are done in colliders, the potential and kinetic energy of the impact is converted into matter (of large particles like hadrons) before quarks would be seen unbound. In fact, the strong force is so powerful that could you pull a quark out of its hadron via some means, the energy required would create a quark/anti-quark pair that would annihilate before you would get that unbound quark on its own. The famous bubble chamber image of the charm quark discovery - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6d/Charmed-dia-w.png does not show a quark, but rather the ejection of hadrons, baryons, (unseen neutrinos), and photons. It was used to predict that for a femtosecond a charm quark existed within a 4-quark baryon before it continued its decay into more stable forms of matter. The quark is never seen. (Someone correct me if that is inaccurate).

tl;dr - Lasers are weak, that's why they don't have (much) of a force acting on them when active. In magic future weapon time, we'll have enough energy in energy weapons that we'll see kinetic force when using them.

PS: Star Citizen is still dumb about it and this absolutely does not excuse their stupid energy weapons.

Did you get a refund

# ? Mar 1, 2016 22:54

ZenMaster: Jan 24, 2006; I Saved PC Gaming

EightAce posted:

I just hope you are all looking forward to a 15 hour long wing commander movie with vanduul instead of those cat men in it. Interspersed with a couple of escort missions and a swarm fight thrown in to break up the intense drama . ............. on the xbox one .........available in a buggy almost unplayable format q4 2017

I for one, welcome our Vanduul overlords

# ? Mar 1, 2016 22:57

his nibs: Feb 27, 2016; Welcome to the
Dream Factory; Grimey Drawer

re: eightace I'm wondering if hobo santa was the guy going to leave. He's got that 1000 yard stare thing going on (although it could just be for show), and probably one of the few people CIG would throw money at to hang around for more of the poo poo show. Whether he's any good or not is maybe not important - the important bit is that he is on the front line. Loose a programmer/designer and the Citizens can put it down to 'just moving on'. Loose chief community person and the community focus is deeply destabilised.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 22:57

MilesK: Nov 5, 2015

Samizdata posted:

Unless, I am completely mistaken (and I might well be), I am pretty sure the CIG offices are in areas with pretty brutal housing markets. These folks might not have the savings to live without a paycheck.

And I think CandyDude is more an outlier than something to base such an argument on, frankly.

I'm just saying MMOs and P2W games have generated for real addicted (like heroin or gambling) players. Star Citizen exploits both markets without a product. You should feel great shame if you work there.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 22:59

Blunderstorm: Mar 1, 2016; my grandfather just posts and all i got was this lousy joke, so what

his nibs posted:

re: eightace I'm wondering if hobo santa was the guy going to leave. He's got that 1000 yard stare thing going on (although it could just be for show), and probably one of the few people CIG would throw money at to hang around for more of the poo poo show. Whether he's any good or not is maybe not important - the important bit is that he is on the front line. Loose a programmer/designer and the Citizens can put it down to 'just moving on'. Loose chief community person and the community focus is deeply destabilised.

It was probably money that threatened to leave and sandi was forced to take out the tap dancing clause in his contract

# ? Mar 1, 2016 22:59

xanif: Nov 3, 2010; Beer: Who was your first kill, not counting old men?
Eonwe: One of the outlaws in the Brotherhood.
Seraph84: I was there that day. You were only a squire, sixteen years old.
Eonwe: You killed Friendly Tumour with a counter-post. Best move I ever saw.; Oven Wrangler

Loiosh posted:

- Does a charged flash light weight more or less than an uncharged one?
The flash light loses weight as the potential energy is lost by the emitting of light.

Posting from the past but this is not true. The electrons aren't leaving the flashlight, they are moving from one terminal to the other. The only way the flash light could lose mass, and thereby weight, would be if the tungsten (I am assuming an incandescent flashlight) is exposed to atmosphere and thus loses mass to atmosphere while heating. Tungsten enclosed in a glass bulb would not lose mass to atmosphere.

What you're saying is the equivalent of "Does a 2 pound box weigh more on the ceiling or the floor? It weighs less on the floor because it has less potential energy."

Now, if the flashlight were nuclear powered that would be a different story.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:01

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

Beet Wagon posted:

That's what's loving astonishing. I wouldn't have been shocked to see someone throw down 20 bucks to buy back in or whatever - in fact if I thought there was a chance in hell of getting a refund now that's exactly what I would do, get a refund and buy back in at the minimum for griefing and enjoying this broken janky piece of poo poo.

But $2500?! Like... how does that thought even enter your head?

When I read his posts I got the impression that he was in for $2500, got a refund and then bought back in for a lower figure when 2.0 came out, not the other way around.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:02

Mirificus: Oct 29, 2004; Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

MeLKoR posted:

When I read his posts I got the impression that he was in for $2500, got a refund and then bought back in for a lower figure when 2.0 came out, not the other way around.

The draft of their recent refund letter stated $2500.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:03

D1E: Nov 25, 2001

HotSauceShoTYME: please post some more fresh Urban Dictionary lingo, that way I can be "with it" and "hip" with the cool kids.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:04

Lime Tonics: Nov 7, 2015; by FactsAreUseless

Colostomy Bag posted:

Another day, another patch.

There's yet another fix for that rifle.

Good to see the door enemy is back.

P4-AR? Parp? ha.

The whole wanted level 5 kick/ ban thing will never not be funny.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:05

G0RF: Mar 19, 2015; Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

ZenMaster posted:

Trying to eff(g0rf)t post, but... the mess is too far gone... I am trying conceptualize how turrets SHOULD work in the SC universe. As they are now, I can't even believe it was implemented. It's literally like having a calculator to solve a complex math problem in space or you die, and then eating it and pulling out a piece of paper and a pencil. Why? Star Citizen is set 900 years in the future and Chris created a world that is more like maybeee 100 years ahead with massive technological set backs (apparently) or just plain dumb decisions. Auto turrets must exist because they exist in 2016 (and have for sooo much longer). The reason they exist are many fold:

1) No risk of human causality.
2) Unparalleled speed and accuracy
3) No fatigue, panic, fear, just coldly directed death

The problem: If attacked, in SC, a player must run to a turret spot, hit USE and then wait for the player model to get into a seat, boot up, and then begin to manually track and shoot at a target. That is some astronomically nonsensical game play. Auto turrets could already be firing, mere mili-seconds after the hull is struck. Alternatively, a player can sit in a turret for hours doing nothing. Whee!

Computers in 900 years should be track targets with ease from 10,000 km out and beyond... with zero human interaction, a slow human analogue sitting in a chair trying to score hits seems like the dumbest of all solutions. No one would do this, ever. A pirate with one computer controlled turret would be far superior to a capitol ship with a dozen human controlled turrets. "Oh, do you have to guess how far to lead that Vanduul warship with your human brain?"

Once computers can fly planes and drive cars with 99.9% accuracy, no human will be allowed to do this anymore since the disadvantages are too great (lots of mistakes/death).

Solution:

I thought it was a good read, ZenMaster.

I think Chris Roberts distinctly Anachrofuturist� vision of space ship design, combined with his coercive view of immersion and his complete obliviousness about WHAT MAKES GAMES FUN, will consign turret combat to the sad fate of so much of the gameplay. What could be a blast will be a chore for the sake of verisimilitude as defined by a person who actually thinks the more work you have to do to achieve even the most perfunctory of tasks while gaming, the more realistic your gameplay experience will be therefore SUCCESS.

I mean, 60 minutes ago, Lando said that obscuring the view of players (as in the Freelancer) with space-blinder cockpits was a big part of their game balancing philosophy. Surely that came right from Roberts himself. I get that merchant ships might have less visibility than a nimble little dogfighter but game balancing via space horse-blinders that block 70% of your view of space?

I know that's a tangent to your point but UGH, it all is just so idiotic it still sometimes amazes me. Sadly, I think there's a particularly futility in theory crafting improvements to gameplay mechanics, which I'm sure many of his talented developers have faced first-hand. It shouldn't be that way of course, because for a man in his right mind, the gameplay mechanics are the very heart of any game. That they seem such a tertiary concern for Roberts below "Immersion", and "Fidelity" speaks volumes.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:09

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

If you want to add another layer of idiocy onto turrets, you are supposed to go through an airlock when you are in them so you are essentially 'outside' the ships hull so if you get shot to poo poo you won't gently caress up the pressure of the hull :lol:

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:12

Tijuana Bibliophile: Dec 30, 2008; Scratchmo

xanif posted:

Posting from the past but this is not true. The electrons aren't leaving the flashlight, they are moving from one terminal to the other. The only way the flash light could lose mass, and thereby weight, would be if the tungsten (I am assuming an incandescent flashlight) is exposed to atmosphere and thus loses mass to atmosphere while heating. Tungsten enclosed in a glass bulb would not lose mass to atmosphere.

What you're saying is the equivalent of "Does a 2 pound box weigh more on the ceiling or the floor? It weighs less on the floor because it has less potential energy."

Now, if the flashlight were nuclear powered that would be a different story.

He's not talking about electrons but about photons

Photons don't have rest mass, but the potential energy lost by radiation has a non-zero weight

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:12

The Walrus: Jul 9, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

EminusSleepus posted:

no that guy is not a dev, he was at first in the Customer Support department then now I think he is the community whatever cig wants to call it

then theres no way they don't have an actual roadmap, right? hes just saying they don't want to make it public? I mean there must be some sort of plan or structure to development? it can't literally be 100% piss in the wind, can it?

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:14

MedicineHut: Feb 25, 2016

LGD posted:

fyi you can say "gently caress" or anything else you want (though note you can and will be banned/probated for unfunny uses of racial slurs), the word filters are only for unregistered users

(also there are a few comedy word filters for registered users to filter out overused memes, namely im gay, cuck and cuckservative [quote this post to see what they are])

(the last one is by far the best imo)

Good to know lol, thanks. I was wondering why all the great word filtering, which I had grown very acustomed to (it was actually kind of cool to read patrons often say "go gently caress yourself", had all of a sudden started to disappear!

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:14

Tijuana Bibliophile: Dec 30, 2008; Scratchmo

And yes, this means a warmer object is heavier than a cold one and that a moving object is heavier than a stationary one

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:15

ZenMaster: Jan 24, 2006; I Saved PC Gaming

dogsupremacy posted:

Why do we have a gigantic wall of text about lasers every page. My eyes glaze over as I scroll past this poo poo just like the fine folks at robutts industries skip past any sc stimpire fan fiction.

I didn't read it beacuse I'm not designing a space game so I don't give a gently caress but the sad part is I'm sure CRI shares the sentiment.

My wall of text had nothing to do with lasers!

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:16

Thoatse: Feb 29, 2016; Lol said the scorpion, lmao

fuctifino posted:

Welcome. Have you attempted to get a refund or tried a chargeback?

That is a goode catte

Thanks. No attempt at a refund or chargeback and likely won't even try. Some of that was gifts already given, the rest on a few LTI ships I may junk on the gray market someday.

I want to keep my account in good standing for my own whale-milking purposes, I've been working on some projects that people want to throw some money at
plus it leaves me with decent sleeper potential.

Got a good reddit one too (several years, plenty of karmas, decent range of post subjects) for that matter.. those circlejerking twats get on my nerves and deserve all
the pain in the stimpire. Would be glorious if you guys could pull another r/mwo, that was nothing short of loving beautiful.

Not sure who I hate worse, scummy scammers or their self appointed sycophant bootlickers that run cover for them...

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:16

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

dogsupremacy posted:

Why do we have a gigantic wall of text about lasers every page. My eyes glaze over as I scroll past this poo poo

Sounds like someone may need laser eye surgery :smug:

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:17

Blunderstorm: Mar 1, 2016; my grandfather just posts and all i got was this lousy joke, so what

The Walrus posted:

then theres no way they don't have an actual roadmap, right? hes just saying they don't want to make it public? I mean there must be some sort of plan or structure to development? it can't literally be 100% piss in the wind, can it?

Doesn't even matter cause according to Chris roberts if it doesn't come from himself it's just speculation

So like literally anything that anyone at cig says can't be taken at face value

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:17

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

I can't play star citizen any more it is just too poo poo

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:17

Variable 5: Apr 17, 2007; We do these things not because they are easy, but because we thought they would be easy.; Grimey Drawer

The Walrus posted:

then theres no way they don't have an actual roadmap, right? hes just saying they don't want to make it public? I mean there must be some sort of plan or structure to development? it can't literally be 100% piss in the wind, can it?

A while back someone there talked about how objectives and priorities changed hourly, so, yeah, the plan is that there's no plan. :v:

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:18

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

The Walrus posted:

then theres no way they don't have an actual roadmap, right? hes just saying they don't want to make it public? I mean there must be some sort of plan or structure to development? it can't literally be 100% piss in the wind, can it?

Look into your heart, what does it tell you?

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:19

Tijuana Bibliophile: Dec 30, 2008; Scratchmo

The Walrus posted:

then theres no way they don't have an actual roadmap, right? hes just saying they don't want to make it public? I mean there must be some sort of plan or structure to development? it can't literally be 100% piss in the wind, can it?

I think every department has its own roadmap that they don't show chris or any other departments, because they would just get in the way and ruin it all. Also they have to change priorities all the time because chris found something insufficiently fidelitous

If they had a roadmap for overall development they'd have no reason to claim otherwise

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:19

Daztek: Jun 2, 2006

woah, I got out of my stardew valley induced coma and pgabz has my dumb gif as avatar, what a great day

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:19

Scruffpuff: Dec 23, 2015; Fidelity. Wait, was I'm working on again?

The Walrus posted:

then theres no way they don't have an actual roadmap, right? hes just saying they don't want to make it public? I mean there must be some sort of plan or structure to development? it can't literally be 100% piss in the wind, can it?

That's what so amazing about this project. There is no roadmap. They designed ships on paper, threw together a space station, most of the paper ships didn't translate to in-game assets, so we have lovely ships and a lovely station. Gameplay isn't even on their radar until they can get the physics working. Chris thinks if you just throw ships and environments together with guns and all that other poo poo, a game will pop out of the other end.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:19

G0RF: Mar 19, 2015; Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

The Walrus posted:

it can't literally be 100% piss in the wind, can it?

It can, it is. They have stated as much. They had a big meeting of the minds earlier this year to plan out some kind of roadmap for PTU updates but my guess is that really meant lining up their planned ship sales for the rest of the year. They use the term 'incremental development' as shorthand for 'we're making it up as we go along', and as Scruffpuff noted in a post 100 pages ago, they've shown just how true that suspicion is with their PTU updates.

I am quoting it in full because it's the answer to your question in elaborately damning detail.

ScruffPuff posted:

"We've all read the stretch goals, and we all had ideas in our minds of what this project could have been back during the Kickstarter. Many here, including myself, backed it. Some were so taken in by the possibilities offered that they continued to back it even once the problems started to surface. Very few people wanted to consider that the game would outright fail; I assert that the latest PTU patch instead indicates the direction I personally feared the project would take: the path to mediocrity.

Players had dreams of being pirates, merchants, miners, mercenaries - anything they could dream up. Early iterations of CIG's promises, "10 For the Chairman" notwithstanding, reinforced these ideas. I think many people saw this game as an evolutionary step beyond a hybrid of Eve and Elite Dangerous - the freedom and depth of the former, with the polish and attention to detail of the latter, with the added bonus of full immersion by allowing the universe to be experienced from a seamless first-person perspective.

Over the years, the most common cited cause being gross mismanagement from Chris Roberts himself, the development took on a laser-like focus on the "seamless first-person perspective" aspect of the game. A poor engine choice, combined with the absolute refusal to compromise on that vision, began to cripple the entire project. Instead of how, or even if, such a scheme could be made to work on such a grand scale, instead faith was placed in the idea that with enough money, studios, and developer talent, it just had to be possible. It was simply a matter of assigning resources.

The result of that mindset became evident when the first iteration of the PTU was released. A horribly broken mess that barely qualifies as a tech demo, much less a game. As the money ran down, Chris turned 100% of his attention to SQ42 (the project he actually wanted to release, which he funded through the promises made for a project he does not care about, or know how to play), leaving the rest of his teams to keep backers happy with continued attempts to get the PTU in working order.

Whether or not those teams are able to technologically achieve that goal is not relevant. What is relevant is that with this latest patch, they have taken the first step on what will become an irreversible path: they are no longer creating the game they planned. Instead, they are designing the game in response to the behavior and experiences of the players currently in the Alpha. Ignoring the rhetoric of whether or not the PTU qualifies as a "true alpha", this is not how you design game systems. Player behavior in a game environment is completely irrelevant if no game systems are yet in place - player behavior is only valuable as a metric once you study that behavior within a completed set of interwoven gaming systems.

The result is as hilarious as it is disappointing. New rules that give players "criminal ranks" for ramming ships on the landing pads. "Time outs" in your room for being killed as a criminal. These are systems that took development time to design, code, implement, test, and release. You will not find these gaming systems in the original pitch, the expanded pitch, or even in the stretch goals. Yet it is here nonetheless - the first actual game elements are now in place - and they were instituted not as an action by CIG, but as a reaction.

Star Citizen, as a game, is finally beginning to take shape. It is not being shaped by the vision of Chris Roberts, nor by design documents. It is not being shaped by the hopes and dreams of backers, nor the promises in 10 For the Chairman. It is instead being shaped by the reactions to chaotic player behavior in a closed pre-alpha environment - systems in place to curb behavior seen as undesirable, yet in no way moving toward any of the promises of what this game could have been. We can expect more such systems to be introduced over the coming months, each one intended to either fix or balance the previous patch, or introduce a new system in order to address some new concern about player behavior.

So now we have an answer to What is Star Citizen? Star Citizen is a game where every action you take is going to be limited by artificial constraints; all put in place to restrict player behavior to what people imagine that behavior should be. The "game" will be to learn the systems, and the constraints, and either work within them, or find a way around them. In other words, Star Citizen is the ultimate metagame. And that's the opposite of immersion."

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:19

Mirificus: Oct 29, 2004; Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/320511/security-thoughts

Somehow, I am not surprised that Captain B'tak would want the comfort of a physical dongle

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:21

Risc1911: Mar 1, 2016

Hey everyone, CIG exile here.

Name has been changed to protect the innocent from the stimperor. Lowtax was generous enough to give me an account so i will be spreading dissent against Croberts from here now.

I was really impressed by some of the Art that was posted and i started to make my own series of Book covers.

Here is one of them, i got more but i don't want to blow all of my load on our first date.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:21

Daztek: Jun 2, 2006

Risc1911 posted:

Hey everyone, CIG exile here.

Name has been changed to protect the innocent from the stimperor. Lowtax was generous enough to give me an account so i will be spreading dissent against Croberts from here now.

I was really impressed by some of the Art that was posted and i started to make my own series of Book covers.

Here is one of them, i got more but i don't want to blow all of my load on our first date.

hello friend, post cattes

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:22

xanif: Nov 3, 2010; Beer: Who was your first kill, not counting old men?
Eonwe: One of the outlaws in the Brotherhood.
Seraph84: I was there that day. You were only a squire, sixteen years old.
Eonwe: You killed Friendly Tumour with a counter-post. Best move I ever saw.; Oven Wrangler

Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

He's not talking about electrons but about photons

Photons don't have rest mass, but the potential energy lost by radiation has a non-zero weight

Hmmm, I was under the impression that even losing photons the system wouldn't lose mass as you can account for the energy loss without mass ever entering the equation via E=p/c but from every single google result I get I'm wrong. Learn something new every day.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:26

D1E: Nov 25, 2001

Risc1911 posted:

Hey everyone, CIG exile here.

Name has been changed to protect the innocent from the stimperor. Lowtax was generous enough to give me an account so i will be spreading dissent against Croberts from here now.

I was really impressed by some of the Art that was posted and i started to make my own series of Book covers.

Here is one of them, i got more but i don't want to blow all of my load on our first date.

Welcome. Much better first post than HotSauceShoTYME. GOOD JOB!

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:27

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

ZenMaster posted:

did u get a refund citizen

Whoa, whoa! do not be hasty, they have still not proved beyond any doubt that they are a complete scam.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:29

Colostomy Bag: Jan 11, 2016; C-Bangin' it

Speaking of B'Tak

This is a good thread that has plenty of B'Tak type people in it trying to avoid shooting each other.

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/320481/will-you-shoot-first-breaking-fps-habits

To many good ones to grab.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:30

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

Risc1911 posted:

Hey everyone, CIG exile here.

Name has been changed to protect the innocent from the stimperor. Lowtax was generous enough to give me an account so i will be spreading dissent against Croberts from here now.

I was really impressed by some of the Art that was posted and i started to make my own series of Book covers.

Here is one of them, i got more but i don't want to blow all of my load on our first date.

Do you have cattes in your house?

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:32

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 23:59

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

But as soon and CRoberts produces a notarized document where he explains how the game is just not going to come out I'm sure Loiosh will be the first to double-check it and then ask for a refund, after waiting a week or so to see if they post a retraction.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 23:32

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