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sandoz posted:Anyone ever been to Pima? I'm going to be in Tucson for vacation and I was planning to set aside a day for it. I haven't been for years, but really need to get down there again. Totally worth it. Also, there is a museum south of Tucson where you can walk down inside of an old Titan II missile silo. Also completely worth going to see. http://www.titanmissilemuseum.org/ Edit - National Geographic video about the Titan missile museum. The Locator fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Mar 1, 2016 |
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Mar 1, 2016 22:57
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I liked it a lot. They have a lot of strange stuff -- that super-silent muffled observation plane I posted earlier, the NB-52 that dropped all the X-15 missions, all the century-series fighters, a few old MiGs, early helicopters that look absolutely terrifying. A bunch of the collection is outdoors, so the canopies are taped over and things are weathered, but you can walk right up to everything and get underneath it. Definitely worth spending at least half a day there. Also they have one of these: 
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Mar 1, 2016 22:59
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sandoz posted:Anyone ever been to Pima? I'm going to be in Tucson for vacation and I was planning to set aside a day for it. Yup, the Museum is solid, huge collection. But the really interesting part, and the best pictures, is taking the 8$ bus tour around the boneyard. You'll probably want to be on the Left side of the bus, but when I was there it wasn't too crowded to jump back and forth.
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Mar 1, 2016 23:17
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sandoz posted:Anyone ever been to Pima? I'm going to be in Tucson for vacation and I was planning to set aside a day for it. Yes. Definitely worth it. If I remember correctly, they have some old AF1 aircraft (707?) circa 1960s. It's not far from Davis-Monthan and their boneyard, much of which you can see from the public side of the fence, so if you can't get on base, no biggie. Pinal Air Park (about 25 minutes north of Tucson) is also worth a visit. They've only started doing tours in the past year or two -- prior to that, the only way in was to fly your own aircraft there. You have to call in advance (Google will direct you) to set up a tour, so you can't just show up. Cool way to get up close to some mothballed airliners and aircraft in various stages of scraping. Also, it's the old base for Air America/CIA, so it's got some history.
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Mar 2, 2016 03:26
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Sagebrush posted:Also they have one of these:    Also Seattle air goons, the 727 prototype will make its final flight tomorrow, departing KPAE at 10:30 and arriving at KBFI 10:45(Real glad random thread happenstance sent me to the website today)
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Mar 2, 2016 03:50
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sandoz posted:Anyone ever been to Pima? I'm going to be in Tucson for vacation and I was planning to set aside a day for it. If you're lucky you will get to see some "models" wearing costumes from Red Alert 3 posing next to various aircraft.
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Mar 2, 2016 04:10
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HookedOnChthonics posted:
Somebody PLEASE post the inevitable video.
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Mar 2, 2016 04:28
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Alas I only have potato-quality video equipment but I will eloquently regale u w/ a firsthand account tomorrow  (MoF videography tends to be pretty on-point, they'll likely have a good vid up after)
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Mar 2, 2016 04:46
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I had no idea the 727 prototype was still airworthy 
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Mar 2, 2016 04:52
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slidebite posted:I had no idea the 727 prototype was still airworthy Don't tell Delta or they'll put it in service.
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Mar 2, 2016 04:55
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Jealous Cow posted:Don't tell Delta or they'll put it in service. Don't tease me. I remember flying Alaska Airlines' 727s from Juneau to Seattle for family vacations.
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Mar 2, 2016 04:59
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slidebite posted:I had no idea the 727 prototype was still airworthy It's only very temporarily airworthy as that was logistically the simplest way to transit from MoF restoration at Paine Field to the museum itself. God knows how they're planning to handle our Linebacker B-52 when it moves in a few years... The Comet is still much further out at this point but I'm pretty sure will not be flown. e: Also, it'll be in good company--the prototype 737, 747, and 757 all already live at KBFI. Gotta complete the set 
HookedOnChthonics fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Mar 2, 2016 |
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Mar 2, 2016 05:06
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Oh that makes sense.They did a similar thing up in Edmonton a few years ago when the fired up and flew an old PWA 737-200 about 20 miles because they couldn't truck it. I think that's cool as hell.
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Mar 2, 2016 06:02
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HookedOnChthonics posted:
I'll bring my telephoto but I don't have a great angle on the waterfront. I'll do what I can do though. Psion fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Mar 2, 2016 |
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Mar 2, 2016 07:10
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Isn't the proto 787 there as well now too? Edit: nvm 002 is at the factory, 003 is at the MoF SeaborneClink fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Mar 2, 2016 |
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Mar 2, 2016 07:51
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Nagoya got the 'technical' first prototype 787, ZA001, in recognition of Japanese support for the program. (for those who don't know, the 787 carries the designation it does because 8 is lucky in Eastern numerology--it had previously been the 7E7) HookedOnChthonics fucked around with this message at 08:29 on Mar 2, 2016 |
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Mar 2, 2016 08:10
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I'm sure that it being sequentially next in the Boeing 7x7 progression had nothing at all to do with it.
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Mar 2, 2016 08:39
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Now granted I get this stuff third-hand at best (and I'm sure there's some Boeing worker bees in thread who could say better than I) but I heard there was a real big internal push for 7E7 as a conscious departure, with the E standing for economical or eco-friendly or e-commerce or whatever other buzzword you care to name--IE they wanted to sell it as different from all those old jets, a full paradigm shift, to the extent that there were people passionately opposed to the 8. It's definitely 100% fact that the change immediately preceded the ANA deal, and that still represents both the first + largest 787 order. e: https://books.google.com/books?id=8...0number&f=false not a definitive answer, but a discussion of both the 7E7 designation (the E turns out to be for either Efficiency or Everett) and the significant Japanese involvement/luckiness of 8. HookedOnChthonics fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Mar 2, 2016 |
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Mar 2, 2016 09:04
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ANA already had 50+ orders in several months before the name change. Supposedly it was to attract Chinese orders, though.
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Mar 2, 2016 09:16
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That stupid superstition matters when buying consumer level products is  That it should matter when buying loving airliners is just  But how did Boeing come up with (and stick with) the 7x7 scheme anyway?
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Mar 2, 2016 09:40
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It's much less superstition than cultural ornamentation. And as far as I know 707 was simply the internal Boeing model number for that aircraft with 727 consciously being numbered as the 'sequel' to capitalize on the massive name recognition and success of the 707, establishing the tradition (note that 717 went unused until it got slapped on the MD-95 after the acquisition). e: everyone interested in the 727 please proceed immediately to http://www.rbogash.com/ual727tx.htm, the adorably amateur webzone of the restoration lead, and leave the man some nice comments and congratulations.  They've done a beautiful job  HookedOnChthonics fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Mar 2, 2016 |
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Mar 2, 2016 09:55
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Some new planes from certain customers are still being placarded without a row 13. The 2nd 737 Max is scheduled to fly on Friday, too.
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Mar 2, 2016 09:57
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 717 is actually the internal Boeing designation of the KC-135, which is basically a military version of the 707. They chose to re-use the designation on the MD95 for some reason.It's basically just marketing, though. Boeing jet transports were all coded 7xx. Marketing thought that using "700" for their first jet transport didn't sound good, so they chose "707" instead. As they were getting ready to introduce the 727, marketing decided that okay, now this is our thing and all our passenger jets are 7x7.
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Mar 2, 2016 10:03
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They'll have to revisit letters once they run out of numbers. They've still got 797 and after that, either they recycle old numbers or they change their naming scheme.Ola posted:That stupid superstition matters when buying consumer level products is http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/archive/2004/february/i_history.html quote:After World War II, Boeing was a military airplane company. William Allen, Boeing president at the time, decided that the company needed to expand back into commercial airplanes and pursue the new fields of missiles and spacecraft. To support this diversification strategy, the engineering department divided the model numbers into blocks of 100 for each of the new product areas: 300s and 400s continued to represent aircraft, 500s would be used on turbine engines, 600s for rockets and missiles and 700s were set aside for jet transport aircraft.
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Mar 2, 2016 10:03
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e: haha I found the exact same site as ^^^ posted to back up my earlier post.
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Mar 2, 2016 10:04
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Cat Mattress posted:They'll have to revisit letters once they run out of numbers. They've still got 797 and after that, either they recycle old numbers or they change their naming scheme. nah man its like software version numbers, just increment to 10 7107 7117 etc
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Mar 2, 2016 10:29
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Clearly they should just append an iteration number to the front and start the series over again--so the first jet of the new generation, the second 707 if you will, would be the 2-707. 
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Mar 2, 2016 10:38
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HookedOnChthonics posted:It's much less superstition than cultural ornamentation. And as far as I know 707 was simply the internal Boeing model number for that aircraft with 727 consciously being numbered as the 'sequel' to capitalize on the massive name recognition and success of the 707, establishing the tradition (note that 717 went unused until it got slapped on the MD-95 after the acquisition). Ah, so they have two 727s? I didn't realize this was another 727. There's an American Airlines one that flew until 2003. Will they have both on display?
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Mar 2, 2016 11:30
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727 you say? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzcWZ7j1iTg e: remember to reattach your jaw when you are finished watching folks. I would blow Dane Cook fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Mar 2, 2016 |
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Mar 2, 2016 11:55
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Jumpingmanjim posted:727 you say? God drat. I didn't know about that.
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Mar 2, 2016 12:52
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Sagebrush posted:
And then you have the E-8C which was built out of actual 707s instead of re-using a KC-135 airframe. quote:Also in April 1988 the Defense Acquisition Board made major changes to the program. It increased the number of E-8 aircraft to be built to 22 from the 10 originally planned, and approved a plan to use new Boeing 707 aircraft instead of used platforms. The first two E-8A development airplanes were 20-year-old commercial Boeing 707s, whose conversion difficulties and questions of remaining service life pushed the board towards the new-build option. By late 1989, however, the cost of newly built E-8B airframes jumped because the 707 production line was due to close in May 1991. This led to the decision in November 1989 to build the E-8C on used 707 airframes. The sole new-build 707 which had been procured was exchanged for five used 707s from Omega Air. Including two 707s that were seized from drug smugglers and one that was use to fly cattle. And a German Air Force 707.
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Mar 2, 2016 15:23
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Jumpingmanjim posted:727 you say?  Holy poo poo, I have never seen this before. Amazing.
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Mar 2, 2016 16:23
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Been in El Centro the last couple weeks, El Centro is generally boring but it is at least pretty.
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Mar 2, 2016 16:54
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CharlesM posted:Ah, so they have two 727s? I didn't realize this was another 727. There's an American Airlines one that flew until 2003. Will they have both on display? The AA was explicitly there as a placeholder for the prototype and will be scrapped. (The Museum actually owned at one point three 727s--the prototype, the placeholder, and a parts donor)
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Mar 2, 2016 17:03
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Jumpingmanjim posted:727 you say? I seem to have misplaced my jaw. How have I never heard of this?
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Mar 2, 2016 17:09
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I propose Boeing head into a new 800-series the next plane after, 808's got a nice ring to it. Spruce it up a bit with some letter codes, like Transport, Regional, or TR for short. Hell, it's already got a soundtrack!
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Mar 2, 2016 17:13
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How common are Dassault Falcon 2000s because I've been seeing a lot of them lately? Or I just see the same one perpetually orbiting my house  I mean I see them here, this morning, and I was down in California the other week and saw a couple there, and I don't know. I didn't think it was that common of a bizjet model, but there you go. e: look at the 727 flightcrew: https://twitter.com/museumofflight/status/705058472916709376 By the way they're early: takeoff now scheduled for 10:15 Psion fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Mar 2, 2016 |
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Mar 2, 2016 17:34
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Sevenses chat: The 757 was named 7N7 for a significant period of time during development. There's precedence for Boeing trying to break the format, but the name recognition that comes from the 7x7 format is probably really hard for the marketing department to resist... Now, dash numbers are completely marketing magic, going back as long as there have been dash numbers. The DC-10-40 was originally the DC-10-20, but Northwest Orient didn't want it to seem like the -20 was in some way inferior to the -30 (an almost totally identical aircraft, except with CF-6s instead of JT9s,) so Douglas renumbered it. Boeing is doing something similar with the 787 dash variants, instead of starting from -100, they started with the 787-8 and -9. Also, the 737 is now out of dash codes, and is going to have to start putting pictures of dinosaurs or something after the name to differentiate models.  Customers are a pain in the rear end.
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Mar 2, 2016 18:35
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Mar 2, 2016 19:29
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MrYenko posted:Sevenses chat: The 757 was named 7N7 for a significant period of time during development. There's precedence for Boeing trying to break the format, but the name recognition that comes from the 7x7 format is probably really hard for the marketing department to resist... The next is the 737-MAX
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Mar 2, 2016 19:52
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