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Ferremit posted:I want a lathe and a mill for my workshop, but it would sting me nearly AU$5K to get both Having worked in the powertool and machinery retail, I can confirm this is a common problem in Australia. Even small "handy man" mills and lathes fetch a large price brand new, and they are all cheap imports. In fact, even the best quality plant you can buy here comes out of Taiwan at best.
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Feb 26, 2016 08:46
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Action Jesus posted:I like making knives and doing random (mostly gunsmithing related) machining tasks on my tiny little Grizzly 7x lathe in my garage workshop. Curious, as I'm looking to pick up a lathe for exactly this purpose as well as making one-off fasteners, etc. What do you think about the size of that for gunsmithing? Like, what kind of jobs are you successfully doing on it? I feel like it would be awesome to be able to thread a rifle barrel, but that seems like one of the only jobs I'd need something larger than that for, so it may be a waste of space and money. Also, how's the quality of that unit? The price is sure right.
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Feb 26, 2016 17:20
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Motronic posted:Curious, as I'm looking to pick up a lathe for exactly this purpose as well as making one-off fasteners, etc. What do you think about the size of that for gunsmithing? Like, what kind of jobs are you successfully doing on it? So, I have the G0765 7x14. The gunsmithing tasks I've done on it, so far have been making form 1 silencers (.22lr and working on a QD .30 silencer) Threading the barrel of a marlin model 60 .22 rifle, making a variety of brakes (QD mounts for my .30 silencer) as well as random pins and parts for different guns, and non gun things like knobs for a bass guitar, brass pens, etc. I have a small youtube channel with videos of some of these but I feel wierd pimping it out on the forums The lathe is probably a little small for what I've done on it, but that said, I mean I've accomplished those tasks reasonably well. It comes with a 3/4hp motor which is the largest one offered by any distributor of these 7x lathes as far as I can tell (most are 1/2 or 2/3hp) and the accessories that come with it make it better than the competitors as well (big beefy tailstock with camlock lever, steady rest) The spindle bore is .787 which makes it too small to thread most rifle barrels, but for barrels of a standard AR thickness or thinner, you can mount them through the spindle bore. I even made a spider for the back-end of my spindle for aligning barrels. I purchased a 5" 4 jaw chuck and a quick change tool post from little machine shop, they're pretty key accessories/upgrades, along with all the other standard measuring/indicating equipment and tooling. The build quality is decent (enough) I suppose. The change gears for threading/powerfeed are plastic which a lot of people fret over, but they don't seem to bear enough load to worry about them stripping. The two main issues with this lathe are that the transmission inside of the headstock is comprised of 2 plastic gears, which absolutely do strip (my first one went back to grizzly and was replaced, and I think this one is getting a chip in it) Luckily, littlemachineshop.com sells metal replacements which I've ordered and will be doing that upgrade soon. The second real issue with the lathe is that it is a variable speed. Combined with the DRO on the spindle speed, it's very handy to have but at the same time it's not perfect and you lose a lot of torque at the low end, where you really need it. I would happily trade the variable speed for a limited number of different speeds I could choose between that offered the full power of the motor with a 70 or 100rpm spindle speed. Don't get me wrong, I can and have single-point threaded O1 and 17-4ph steels on this thing, but you can really feel its loss of rear end at the low end. There are a couple other small 9x and 10x grizzly lathes that really aren't that much more than this one (ok like 2x the price) that are probably worth it, but IIRC the 9x20 can't do reverse feed with the lead screw which kinda limits your options (can't do left hand threads) and at the time of purchase, the 10x lathe was out of my price range (not sure if it can do left hand threads either)
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Feb 26, 2016 18:32
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Motronic posted:Curious, as I'm looking to pick up a lathe for exactly this purpose as well as making one-off fasteners, etc. What do you think about the size of that for gunsmithing? Like, what kind of jobs are you successfully doing on it? I'm no machinist, but I looked in to this and apparently putting the lands and grooves in a rifle barrel is something that is next to impossible without built-for-the-purpose machines and tooling. I poked around and saw maybe one build that was theoretically capable of rifling a barrel, but he'd put a ton of work into large extra custom gearing. Apparently barrel rifling is known for being exceptionally difficult for anything but an actual factory.
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Feb 26, 2016 18:54
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AbsentMindedWelder posted:The past week I've spent packing up "everything else" in the old Garage and Basement and transporting it car-load by car-load to the new shop. I've lost track of how many trips I've made. Within in the next week I should have the basement finished and be ready to make another pass to check for anything left in the ground level of the Garage. Tomorrow I'll buy a small truck load of small plastic bins to begin sorting and organizing everything in the large plastic bins that I've been moving poo poo in. Also hope to get an assessment of what my hand tool collection looks like after it's been raped and pillaged from years of disorganization, theft, dad moving poo poo on me, and moving into a new shop... Gotta start that shopping list. Hey AMW, What model of Lagun do you have? I can't quite make it out off the ram. FTV-2L? I'm looking at a FTL-2 to replace my old J-Head Bridgeport.
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Feb 26, 2016 19:01
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Uncle Enzo posted:I'm no machinist, but I looked in to this and apparently putting the lands and grooves in a rifle barrel is something that is next to impossible without built-for-the-purpose machines and tooling. I poked around and saw maybe one build that was theoretically capable of rifling a barrel, but he'd put a ton of work into large extra custom gearing. Apparently barrel rifling is known for being exceptionally difficult for anything but an actual factory. I think motronic was talking about cutting screw threads on the OD for accessories. That said, the way really huge companies make barrels is metal as hell and I was fortunate to get to see it on the FN factory tour. Screw trying to cut those grooves, they start with a short fat blank about 1 1/2 times the finished diameter, slap a plug with the shape of the rifling through the oversize hole in the middle, and then spin it through a power hammer like so much play-dough getting squeezed around a pencil. And all that forging is done cold.
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Feb 26, 2016 19:49
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the spyder posted:Hey AMW, I'm almost positive it's a FTV-2S. I'll double check when I get back out to the shop next time and change my answer if I'm wrong.
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Feb 26, 2016 20:52
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shame on an IGA posted:I think motronic was talking about cutting screw threads on the OD for accessories. I always liked seeing the old school musket way. Have a pipe with a spiral slot cut in it, put an arm in the pipe, slam a rod through the slot perpendicular to the arm, and put some kind of hardened tool on the business end of the arm that will engage the inside of the barrel. Then you just run it through a few dozen times and you've got basic rifling.
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Feb 26, 2016 21:54
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Action Jesus posted:[all awesome information] Hell yeah, so for the price it sounds like a very useful baby's first lathe. Please do pimp you channel here, or at least PM it to me. Would be nice to be able to thread a 30 cal bull barrel, but that's not exactly something I would do frequently. But it sounds like you're saying I can probably get my .17 HMR in there......... Uncle Enzo posted:I'm no machinist, but I looked in to this and apparently putting the lands and grooves in a rifle barrel is something that is next to impossible without built-for-the-purpose machines and tooling. I poked around and saw maybe one build that was theoretically capable of rifling a barrel, but he'd put a ton of work into large extra custom gearing. Apparently barrel rifling is known for being exceptionally difficult for anything but an actual factory. I'm just talking about threading the end of a barrel for muzzle brakes/suppressors. And use some of the leftover to make a threaded cap. No way I'm actually thinking of trying make an entire barrel.
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Feb 27, 2016 02:14
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Motronic posted:Hell yeah, so for the price it sounds like a very useful baby's first lathe. Please do pimp you channel here, or at least PM it to me. Yeah it's surprisingly useful! And small enough if you gently caress up you're slightly less likely to kill yourself (just a moderate maiming maybe) Of course, obviously if you can find a serviceable South Bend or Atlas lathe in the same price range, jump on that instead. I also know the 10x series lathe from grizzly has a 1" spindle bore so you could thread just about any rifle barrel you could think of...
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Feb 27, 2016 02:19
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Keep in mind that 7x12 etc lathes the second number is just the length of the bed and not the length of the longest workpiece that you can fit on there. If you're trying to do rifle barrels, you pretty much need a lathe that's as long as the barrel is, plus some extra room for the tool holder. Otherwise you're going to have to do it in parts by mounting the barrel -through- the head and then working on only half at a time.
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Feb 27, 2016 17:52
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CrazyLittle posted:Keep in mind that 7x12 etc lathes the second number is just the length of the bed and not the length of the longest workpiece that you can fit on there. If you're trying to do rifle barrels, you pretty much need a lathe that's as long as the barrel is, plus some extra room for the tool holder. Otherwise you're going to have to do it in parts by mounting the barrel -through- the head and then working on only half at a time. Yeah, that's the idea. You're only working on the last 1/2" of the barrel for what I'm talking about.
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Feb 27, 2016 18:55
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Sorry, meant to post in the woodworking thread.
His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Feb 27, 2016 |
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Feb 27, 2016 20:40
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FTV-2S indeed. I got all the tools in the toolbox, which made space on the table. So I emptied the big cardboard box that was sitting on the pallet, which yielded this stuff. One thing is for sure, the 2 DRO rails are shot.  And I removed all the non-mill stuff from this thing thing on wheels. Talk about a true basket case. Tomorrow I'll be bringing the manual with me to the shop and see if I can locate the hardware that holds the head to the pedestal. I may or may not start de-rusting, we'll see. 
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Feb 28, 2016 00:55
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AbsentMindedWelder posted:FTV-2S indeed. Wow that's in a lot of pieces. We have a 1978 Bridgeport NC that's in the same shape- except missing a LOT more paint. Did you buy it as a project? We've used Evaporust with great success. My brother has even made a giant dip tank for the knee and table. Hopefully it will get painted and reassembled here soon.
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Feb 28, 2016 04:51
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How many amps would you recommend for welding sheet metal with 1/16" 6011?
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Feb 28, 2016 05:35
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the spyder posted:Wow that's in a lot of pieces. We have a 1978 Bridgeport NC that's in the same shape- except missing a LOT more paint. Did you buy it as a project? We've used Evaporust with great success. My brother has even made a giant dip tank for the knee and table. Hopefully it will get painted and reassembled here soon. DreadLlama posted:How many amps would you recommend for welding sheet metal with 1/16" 6011?
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Feb 28, 2016 13:44
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I retrieved this 5 gallon bucket of Purple solvent from the old garage today. A buddy left this behind after he did some work on his car years ago. I'll use this for cleaning up all the dirt and grime off the mill parts. A buddy with his van helped me get some lumber. I will use the 2x8's along with some plastic sheeting to make a little tub for the big mill parts so I can hose them down and not have water go all over the shop floor. I'll use one of the 2x4's to rig up something to chain my compressed gas cylinders to.  While I had access to a van today I figured I'd pick up a trash can. Also got some supplies I'll need for de-rusting.  Every shop should have a microwave. When I moved into my apt it already had a built in microwave, so I had a spare. I have a small fridge in my storage unit I'll be bringing along too.  I was able to decipher the manual and figure out what parts I need to attach the head to the pedestal, and actually locate the parts. Once I de-rust the two mating surfaces I'll be able to lift the head into place and bolt it down. I will have to buy some washers, could not find them. They call this thing a "spider". It's amazing to think that when you lift the mill as per the manual, the entire weight of it would rest on these 4 bolts and casting. 
AbsentMindedWelder fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Feb 29, 2016 |
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Feb 29, 2016 01:57
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AbsentMindedWelder posted:
High strength steel bolts general have a tensile strength of 170,000 psi. If those are ~ 5/8 bolts and the mill weighs ohh... 3 tons, each bolt is supporting 1,223 psi of stress. Granted, that's on top of any axial pretension from being properly torqued.
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Feb 29, 2016 03:00
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Random Number posted:High strength steel bolts general have a tensile strength of 170,000 psi. If those are ~ 5/8 bolts and the mill weighs ohh... 3 tons, each bolt is supporting 1,223 psi of stress. The load on the bolts is pretty much insignificant next to the preload. Tension spec for grade 8 5/8" bolts is around 20000 pounds, roughly 65000 psi. If the preload isn't vastly larger than the actual load than it can move under vibration. Bolts are fun.
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Feb 29, 2016 03:59
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Karia posted:The load on the bolts is pretty much insignificant next to the preload. Tension spec for grade 8 5/8" bolts is around 20000 pounds, roughly 65000 psi. If the preload isn't vastly larger than the actual load than it can move under vibration.
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Feb 29, 2016 04:03
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So this followed me home....... It's a South Bend C9-10JR, missing a bunch of the threading gears. Best build date I can figure from online sources using the serial number is 1946. Old school machinist friend checked it over including runout on the spindle bearing and said "let's go talk about this" so he could excitedly tell me that everything was better than he would have expected (but still no guarantees) away from the seller. Got it at at a good price and even pried the extra chuck out of his hands (he wanted to sell it with one or the other and I told him that's a deal breaker and by the way most of the threading gears are missing I need $200 off). Ways are filthy but look largely undamaged. Entire machine is covered in oil, which is a good thing since most of the paint is gone. Reverse does not work, but the new-ish Dayton motor indicates it should. So it's either miswired or the switch is bad. This isn't a terribly desirable model. No transmission, no power cross feed. But it's baby's first very own spinny thing (finally). Current plan is to read, read, read and then set it up and lube it, test to make sure it's worth the work then tear it back down to clean it up and paint it.
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Feb 29, 2016 06:11
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Nice lathe! I can guarantee you it's older then 1946 because it's missing the quick change gear box. Probably 20's or 30's. If there's no clutch for powerfeed then you can use the half nuts. Those change gears are expensive, may want to ask your machinist friend if they can make some for you. If you haven't already found this site: http://www.wswells.com/ AbsentMindedWelder fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Feb 29, 2016 |
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Feb 29, 2016 11:42
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Sealey supermig 180: how much would you pay for one without a gun or accessories?
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Mar 1, 2016 12:24
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So I'm not familiar with that brand or welding machines across the pond in general, but I would advise you to look up the cost of the gun and your accessories, subtract that from the cost of a new unit, then take a ~50% discount for used poo poo, and there you go.
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Mar 1, 2016 13:05
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My dad helped me move a small steel cabinet into the shop tonight. While he was there I had him help me install the head/turret assembly onto the pedestal, which as I expected, did required two people because the assembly was out of balance while lifting. I didn't clean up the mating surfaces yet... I chose to do this because I realized I had to remove the head from the turret, and the turret from the round thingy that rotates on the pedestal (don't know what it's called) in order to clean everything properly. Mounting the assembly on the pedestal will make it much easier to work on, which I should be able to do by myself.  This is the hardware used to attach it as I showed earlier. It took a little bit of finagling to get the bolts to line up into the spider. In other news, I decided to buy a 5 gallon bucket full of Evapo-rust, I should be able to do the table, saddle, vise, and some other small parts with it. Also got a bunch of small hand tools that need some work to. The pedestal and knee will still get the naval jelly treatment.
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Mar 2, 2016 03:41
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I'll use this double post to suggest that Motronic should probably get a felt kit for the lathe, but at the very least, you should pull the spindle to inspect it's lubrication felts before you turn it on and gently caress up your bearings.
AbsentMindedWelder fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Mar 2, 2016 |
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Mar 2, 2016 03:51
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Tried to do some welding last night, got a project (belt sander) that would really be helped if I did some parts in metal. I want to weld an M12 nut to an M10 (metric 3/8" equivalent) and having one nut rotated 90 degrees to the other. I'm seeing a lot of welding of nuts and threaded rods and stuff in my future, it's just the kind of thing I do and will have a use for. Basically all nuts and rods are galvanized. I took an angle grinder last night to the two pieces I was gonna test on. Small things like this isn't the easiest to grind. So now I am soaking a few in vinegar since last night, some muriatic acid would be better. What kind of size welding rod would be suitable for small things like this? I tried with a 5/64th last night but had too much current so it spattered a lot and melted the threads a bit on one side, enough that it wasn't usable. Perhaps a 1/16th would be better for small things like these. Really just need to tack them together.
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Mar 2, 2016 07:53
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AbsentMindedWelder posted:So I'm not familiar with that brand or welding machines across the pond in general, but I would advise you to look up the cost of the gun and your accessories, subtract that from the cost of a new unit, then take a ~50% discount for used poo poo, and there you go. That seems reasonable, thanks. Any UK goons who can advise on a cheap starter mig? I need to make a trailer frame for starters, I've someone at work who can teach me in the meantime.
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Mar 2, 2016 08:14
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Also I hate my welding helmet, it's an auto helmet and that function works fine but what I hate is that every time I pull it down and then up, I need to remember to tighten it back up, it loosens up every single time. It fell back down on me like a dozen times last night, I wanted to throw the thing into the wall. My dads old non auto helmet is way more comfortable to use despite being really primitive.
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Mar 2, 2016 08:34
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His Divine Shadow posted:What kind of size welding rod would be suitable for small things like this? I tried with a 5/64th last night but had too much current so it spattered a lot and melted the threads a bit on one side, enough that it wasn't usable. Perhaps a 1/16th would be better for small things like these. Really just need to tack them together. Cakefool posted:Any UK goons who can advise on a cheap starter mig? I need to make a trailer frame for starters, I've someone at work who can teach me in the meantime.
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Mar 2, 2016 12:09
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Yeah those 6010s... still haven't found any 6010s here, I think if I want to try some I'll have to import from abroad. I'll try my 3/32" 7018s then I guess. I'll have to try some 6013s though, just to see what it's about. EDIT: My dads MIG, it's a good welder, though the brand isn't as well liked as say Kemppi or ESAB.  Way easier than a stick welder, but I am convinced it's worth "sticking" to for the simplicity and versatility. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Mar 2, 2016 |
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Mar 2, 2016 12:20
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AbsentMindedWelder posted:I'll use this double post to suggest that Motronic should probably get a felt kit for the lathe, but at the very least, you should pull the spindle to inspect it's lubrication felts before you turn it on and gently caress up your bearings. Thank you for the advice. As part of my reading on how to set this thing up properly I've come across the lube info. It's obvious it was being run with whatever rather than the correct lubricants. It's also so filthy it needs to be torn down just to clean it and the wrong lubricants off properly. With that in mind it's coming apart for cleaning and paint before I run it. Felt kit/wicks have already been ordered along with the 4 correct lubricants. May as well delay the fun and do it right. Plus I've found there's a bit more to setting it up properly than slapping it on a table and roughly leveling it, and I don't really want to do that twice.
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Mar 2, 2016 16:24
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That's the best course of action. I would advise against paint tho right now from my own lathe experience. Painting it and doing a proper job is tons of work. To start with I would just clean it, de-rust it, lube her up with new felt, start making chips, and have some fun. You may find not having a quick change gear box is a pain in the rear end and be looking for another lathe in the future anyway to supplement this one. That would be the good time to paint this one. I'd like to paint my milling machine very much, but I learned my lesson. Also with your taper pins, do yourself a favor and use a dial caliper to identify the skinny end to punch out. Just looking at them can be deceiving, and you don't want to punch in the wrong direction and make them tighter. The only part that I had trouble with disassembly was the clutch in the apron, which required making a bushing on my buddies lathe to use as a tool. You'll also need a hydraulic press if you don’t' have one. I'm assuming you got the felt kit on ebay along with a book. That book is very very useful. Edit: (The reason I got the mill so cheap was the previous owner decided to paint it, took it apart, and then when he realized all the work involved in actual stripping and painting, decided gently caress it and then sold it to me for scrap value.) AbsentMindedWelder fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Mar 2, 2016 |
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Mar 2, 2016 16:46
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AbsentMindedWelder posted:That's the best course of action. I would advise against paint tho right now from my own lathe experience. Painting it and doing a proper job is tons of work. To start with I would just clean it, de-rust it, lube her up with new felt, start making chips, and have some fun. You may find not having a quick change gear box is a pain in the rear end and be looking for another lathe in the future anyway to supplement this one. That would be the good time to paint this one. I'd like to paint my milling machine very much, but I learned my lesson. Yep, that's the kit/book. I know the paint will take time, but this thing barely has any paint at all left on it, and what's there appears to be house paint that basically scrapes off with a fingernail. So I'm gonna bite the bullet. I've got to degrease it anyway, may as well use that opportunity to finish prep and paint. I'll report back on how it sucked thoroughly and that you were right in a few years. Also, I've been looking at "C to A" conversions. Not making any decisions right now, but it seems entirely reasonable (borrowing some time on a friend's lathe to modify my lead screw or just buying an A/B lead screw) to put a gear box and apron with a clutch on this one. The prices on the parts vary wildly, but it appears there are some deals to be had if you're patient.
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Mar 2, 2016 16:57
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Something to keep in mind if you do paint it... under the paint is alot of putty type stuff that they put on the castings to make them smooth. If you use a chemical stripper you will soften it and have to remove it which is a pain. I chose not to reapply any putty and leave the casting defects as is. If it's missing alot of paint and it's flaking off, I would avoid a chemical based stripper. Otherwise you'll have alot of elbow grease in removing the softened stuff and left with the choice of whether to put bondo on and sand it, or leave it as is.
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Mar 2, 2016 17:03
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AbsentMindedWelder posted:Something to keep in mind if you do paint it... under the paint is alot of putty type stuff that they put on the castings to make them smooth. If you use a chemical stripper you will soften it and have to remove it which is a pain. I chose not to reapply any putty and leave the casting defects as is. If it's missing alot of paint and it's flaking off, I would avoid a chemical based stripper. Otherwise you'll have alot of elbow grease in removing the softened stuff and left with the choice of whether to put bondo on and sand it, or leave it as is. That's drat good advice. I'm going to start on the motor stand, and am hoping to be able to get this done with mostly just TSP and some light sanding. I'm not restoring this thing to sit in a showroom, it's gonna be a worker. So loose paint and rust off with a light sand to blend edges will be sufficient for me. While I want it to look nice, this is mostly a functional coat - keep that pig from rusting.
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Mar 2, 2016 17:13
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AbsentMindedWelder posted:Something to keep in mind if you do paint it... under the paint is alot of putty type stuff that they put on the castings to make them smooth. If you use a chemical stripper you will soften it and have to remove it which is a pain. I chose not to reapply any putty and leave the casting defects as is. If it's missing alot of paint and it's flaking off, I would avoid a chemical based stripper. Otherwise you'll have alot of elbow grease in removing the softened stuff and left with the choice of whether to put bondo on and sand it, or leave it as is. You might also find new and exciting potential failure points! Who remember that lovely little flypress I bought? 
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Mar 2, 2016 18:19
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Slung Blade posted:You might also find new and exciting potential failure points! Home_Alone_2_Marv_Wow_What_A_Hole.jpeg
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Mar 2, 2016 19:32
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Welding two small nuts together isn't easy! Whenever I manage it I seem to have ruined the threads as well.
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Mar 2, 2016 19:54
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