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CIG programmers will feel at home at CERN http://motherboard.vice.com/read/cern-engineers-have-to-identify-and-disconnect-9000-obsolete-cables
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Mar 2, 2016 14:33
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quote:Form over function always wins when the CEO is autistic Platform masters works better than Star Citizen And will be released first. yes I know Ulillillia is not autisitc, I believe his diagnosis is closer to some kind of OCD
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Mar 2, 2016 14:34
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Scruffpuff posted:Take a look at the character models. Of particular note are the animations in It's actually a very solid foundation that will offer no resistance to addition of innumerable gameplay elements
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Mar 2, 2016 14:36
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latest video. Do you see all that unnecessary mo-cap animation - all the little movements and poo poo that nobody in their right minds pays attention to? They had to hack the FPS engine into oblivion just to get it to look that way. Form over function always wins when the CEO is autistic. So now the developers are faced with attempting to "fix" something that's broken by its very design. The engine they have now isn't really tailored to do anything any more, except fulfill Chris' "vision" in screenshots or short bursts of video - contiguous gameplay does not exist in his vision. So the way to fix the engine is to remove all the player models, all the motion-captured animations, and all the weird physics, and just start over from scratch and do it properly. If Chris vanished tonight, and the programmers had the freedom to do anything they wanted without adhering to his outdated design principles, they could get this working by cutting out all his sacred cows. That's why I, for one, don't blame them for not being able to accomplish the impossible.
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Scruffpuff posted:Take a look at the character models. Of particular note are the animations in OK, fair enough. EightAce: serious question - would swapping engines RIGHT NOW to UE4 or Unity (or I dunno... RPGmaker) make it more or less conducive to actually shipping an actual game? I understand your company does not believe in roadmaps... so let's just say within two years?
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Mar 2, 2016 14:38
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alphabettitouretti posted:Not particle weapons, but Old Man's Sky had a neat idea for sci-fi guns - rifles used blocks of metal which the gun turned into different rounds on the fly. If you ran out of ammo you could stuff random junk in the gun at the cost of reduced efficiency. The original Mass Effect (ME 1) did this as well. The gun was functionally a linear accelerator (compact rail gun) and the ammo was thin slices of a metal alloy primer. For each shot the gun sliced an incredibly thin (grain of sand) bit of the primer off, generated a mass effect field and projected the now low-mass object out the accelerator. It was a really cool idea they ended up killing in ME2/3 so they could have gameplay that was more comfortable for shooter fans.
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Mar 2, 2016 14:38
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Loiosh posted:The original Mass Effect (ME 1) did this as well. The gun was functionally a linear accelerator (compact rail gun) and the ammo was thin slices of a metal alloy primer. For each shot the gun sliced an incredibly thin (grain of sand) bit of the primer off, generated a mass effect field and projected the now low-mass object out the accelerator. It was a really cool idea they ended up killing in ME2/3 so they could have gameplay that was more comfortable for shooter fans. I really liked ME1's ammo system, too. I was annoyed they took it out.
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Mar 2, 2016 14:40
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D1E posted:Ummm. Everyone in this thread keeps saying that the programmers at CIG are GODS. I'm not really seeing it? Imagine you have a fleet of supercars all with talented drivers and it's a straight Speedway. It all looks absolutely great. Cause you paid for it all. Then you have Chris Roberts and his wife fill the entire stretch with spike strips.
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Mar 2, 2016 14:41
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Crazy_BlackParrot posted:Well let me use this analogy. +o7 The most destructive thing to a code base is poorly defined and constantly changing requirements. Which is to say, Chris Roberts.
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Mar 2, 2016 14:42
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What's the problem? Looks like a perfectly fideltious simulation of soldiering in the Stimpire. silvergoose posted:I really liked ME1's ammo system, too. I was annoyed they took it out. Agreed. I preferred the heat management mechanic to having to run around picking up extra ammo, that was a pointless change that added nothing.
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Mar 2, 2016 14:47
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Crazy_BlackParrot posted:Well let me use this analogy. Also, there is a nest of raccoons in the server room somewhere.
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Mar 2, 2016 14:48
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Crazy_BlackParrot posted:
Now pour a can of gas all over that room and light it on fire. That is Chris programming at midnight.
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Mar 2, 2016 14:48
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Can someone repost/quote the comic that featured the Stimperial Chain Chomp Vessel? I want to laugh at it again and give the artist more time in the limelight. Even when this game crumbles into the worst kind of dust, it will have been worth it for giving sickening birth to the glorious Fourth Stimpire.
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Mar 2, 2016 14:51
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D1E posted:OK, fair enough. It's too late for that, they can't just scrap everything and start over. For once there is no money.
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Mar 2, 2016 14:52
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Banging out an RPGMaker adventure in the stars and calling it Star Citizen would be a solid Plan B Someone would have to lock up Chris so he doesn't make them redo the pixel art over and over though
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Mar 2, 2016 14:55
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D1E posted:OK, fair enough. Hoooly poo poo. An engine swap right now would DOOM any hope of even SQ42 coming out within the next two centuries. The backers would revolt. Chris would lose his mind. Their incredibly expensive in-house CryEngine team would dress in white robes and Adidas sneakers and throw themselves from the roof of the Onyx Tower. Great fissures would open in the loam beneath the Frankfurt office and belch forth caustic gas as the wails of the eternally damned rose to the sky borne on winds fanned by the fires of once great civilizations. God I hope they do it.
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Mar 2, 2016 14:58
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D1E posted:OK, fair enough. I'd like to hear EightAce's answer too, but I'll offer my own in the meantime. An engine switch might get them closer, but the problem from the beginning was this: - A seamless universe - FPS, Ship Flight, and EVA - Everything modeled accurately with localized physics - All in one map - No loading screens - No tricks - Everything persistent and in real-time This is what doomed the project before it even started. There are countless creative ways Star Citizen could have come to fruition, but insisting that the game engine recreate the complexities of physical reality itself was why this project could never succeed. Every inch of that is on Chris Roberts. What we think of as the "Star Citizen Experience" will come about by playing the upcoming glut of excellent space games made by everyone who isn't him.
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Mar 2, 2016 14:59
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MeLKoR posted:It's too late for that, they can't just scrap everything and start over. For once there is no money. Actually, i think if they would release all the assets/code out in the open this project might succeed. Let some indie developers/students have a go at it.
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Mar 2, 2016 15:02
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silvergoose posted:I really liked ME1's ammo system, too. I was annoyed they took it out. Same. Ammunition management was a superfluous and unnecessary burden that took away from the fun parts of gameplay, and personally I really liked the lore explanation they used. Meanwhile 900 years in the future Star Citizens are still using cartridge-based firearms.
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Mar 2, 2016 15:07
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Crazy_BlackParrot posted:Actually, i think if they would release all the assets/code out in the open this project might succeed. The most valuable thing to come out of Star Citizen will likely be the concierge email address list.
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Mar 2, 2016 15:09
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Scruffpuff posted:I'd like to hear EightAce's answer too, but I'll offer my own in the meantime. An engine switch might get them closer, but the problem from the beginning was this: they already admitted to having to fake the physics wont be long until they have to fake everything like a non retarded dev team
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Mar 2, 2016 15:10
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Toops posted:+o7 The more you think about it, the sadder it becomes. The biggest threat to SC isn't the goon squad, no Derek Smart but Chris himself.
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Mar 2, 2016 15:10
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AP posted:The most valuable thing to come out of Star Citizen will likely be the concierge email address list. How so? Or am I missing a witty joke?
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Mar 2, 2016 15:11
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D1E posted:OK, fair enough. Initially when Chris pitched all this he got some space ship meshes and then had a small team re texture and topologise them to look cool. he then bought an off the shelf engine (At the time a seat of the cry engine cost a small fortune for full spec) Then he produced some very brief flashes of those ships moving around with no levels of detail in them, spergs came in their pants. The cry engine is designed to move character models around the environment to this day that is why the ships themselves feel like Characters and not ships. He then interspersed lots of pre rendered footage and marketing with absolutely no consideration for things like vert counts, texture budgets, animation ,joints VFX etc etc. Very early on in development it was realized that cry engine was not the way to go ; so what happened. Get a more suitable engine? Try and use something like Unity or UR4? No ......... His minions had obviously failed the Stimporer so he simply raped and pillaged Crytech. When those guys came on board they were ordered to make everything work properly to realize the vision. Then came the FPS dream , the Star marine that never really existed and annoys him so much. At this point the brains he had stolen from Crytech had finally got a smooth workflow and decent toolchain going for a modified Cry engine. The Stimporer meanwhile had passed the Star marine game to the Ilfonic guys who were using early iteration of the modified Cryengine. When the two things were expected to seamlessly slot together guess what happened. The existing Cryengine worked as intended with the FPS, the modified one that was and still is a WIP didn't work with the submitted stuff retrospectively. Thats when the Stimporer lost his poo poo. Add to that the completely broken animation system and the none existent anchor to a spawn point system and voila !! Best drat space sim ever with better than COD or battlefront FPS elements. To answer your question look at Angels fall first $12 on steam and they have pretty much ripped off any half decent UI off SC. At this point if they were to optimize all the existing assets and start again , with the original pitch using the UR4 engine they could pull off SOME of what was promised ... Remember Chris is trying to make heavy rain in space with seamless No mans sky vehicle access and 3 movies worth of his visionary sci fi story telling
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Mar 2, 2016 15:12
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:they already admitted to having to fake the physics One of the early tell all rage quits talked about months of wasted effort just to prove something couldn't be done. Chris probably stamped his feet and yelled about his thrusters for months. From what 8Ace says it sounds like he's in just made it work panic mode now though
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Mar 2, 2016 15:13
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I don't think it would be too hyperbolic to say that the fastest way that Chris could complete the closest thing remotely possible to his original conception of Star Citizen would be to wait until Frontier has FPS in E:D, and license the entire engine off of them wholesale.
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Mar 2, 2016 15:16
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EightAce posted:Initially when Chris pitched all this he got some space ship meshes and then had a small team re texture and topologise them to look cool. he then bought an off the shelf engine (At the time a seat of the cry engine cost a small fortune for full spec) Then he produced some very brief flashes of those ships moving around with no levels of detail in them, spergs came in their pants. The cry engine is designed to move character models around the environment to this day that is why the ships themselves feel like Characters and not ships. So when is the next date for the diary in terms of the slow progression of this car wreck? Are they planning on moving the goalposts again any time soon?
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Mar 2, 2016 15:16
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EightAce posted:Initially when Chris pitched all this he got some space ship meshes and then had a small team re texture and topologise them to look cool. he then bought an off the shelf engine (At the time a seat of the cry engine cost a small fortune for full spec) Then he produced some very brief flashes of those ships moving around with no levels of detail in them, spergs came in their pants. The cry engine is designed to move character models around the environment to this day that is why the ships themselves feel like Characters and not ships. What about if he went back to the drawing board and re made Outrun?
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Mar 2, 2016 15:18
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It is simply panic stations. gently caress everything else; SQ42 is the ONLY thing of importance. Wheel out the missus and Fatso once a week and let them say and do literally anything they like to make it look like procedural birds etc are still being worked on . Anyone mouths off on the forums shut them down instantly.
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Mar 2, 2016 15:20
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EightAce posted:It is simply panic stations. gently caress everything else; SQ42 is the ONLY thing of importance. Wheel out the missus and Fatso once a week and let them say and do literally anything they like to make it look like procedural birds etc are still being worked on . Anyone mouths off on the forums shut them down instantly. And they're gonna try to keep this up till mid 2017? Or are they internally still trying to get something finished and out before the end of the year?
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Mar 2, 2016 15:23
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Crazy_BlackParrot posted:How so? Or am I missing a witty joke? they're all prime suckers with cash to burn, and the list could be sold to scammers and criminals for a large amount of money
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Mar 2, 2016 15:28
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EightAce posted:It is simply panic stations. gently caress everything else; SQ42 is the ONLY thing of importance. Wheel out the missus and Fatso once a week and let them say and do literally anything they like to make it look like procedural birds etc are still being worked on . Anyone mouths off on the forums shut them down instantly. I don't see how this can be sustained indefinitely. In just the last couple of months even whales are starting to wake up. Once E.D. isn't the only viable competition any more, SC will fall further and further behind the curve. I can imagine Chris and Ben having their heads too far up their own asses to realize this, but I bet Sandi suspects it - she's too much of a narcissist to not look at this from the detached clinical perspective of how it can benefit her. It's obvious the devs know it. What's so awesome about this spectacle is that it's like going back in time to watch the Daikatana release, but knowing the result in advance. It's getting hard to wait for the fireworks.
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Mar 2, 2016 15:31
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Scruffpuff posted:I'd like to hear EightAce's answer too, but I'll offer my own in the meantime. An engine switch might get them closer, but the problem from the beginning was this: And to me one of the greatest ironies is Chris needs almost none of these to deliver SQ42, the thing he actually wants to do. Maybe some combined FPS and Flight play...but in the end everything points to Chris wanting to make a bog standard "cinematic" action game that's no different from the first person shooters and third person shooters and open world action/explorers that dominate AAA titles right now, aside from some fighter pilot play. Even if you add in some amount of multiplayer, there's still plenty of this fat that could be chopped to deliver a perfectly serviceable-to-good game. And if it had been chopped, he'd have the bonus of having released this game maybe around the same time as Elite, and could have claimed to be part of the return of the space fighter genre. Now SQ42 and SC are probably going to be "released" as a disappointing mess to try and keep it in the same generation of releases as No Man's Sky and the CCP game. With this vision bloat, Roberts has taken the game from being part of the vanguard to being an elderly man hobbling his way through a 5k charity run.
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Mar 2, 2016 15:33
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Same. Ammunition management was a superfluous and unnecessary burden that took away from the fun parts of gameplay, and personally I really liked the lore explanation they used. I read somewhere that the justification was it was meant to encourage people to move more around the battlefield. In ME1 you could sort of sit down and stay put throughout the whole firefight, while in ME2/3 you'd run out of ammo, so you'd need to venture out to scavenge it mid battle.
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Mar 2, 2016 15:35
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Fatkraken posted:they're all prime suckers with cash to burn, and the list could be sold to scammers and criminals for a large amount of money D'oh.
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Mar 2, 2016 15:40
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:And to me one of the greatest ironies is Chris needs almost none of these to deliver SQ42, the thing he actually wants to do. Maybe some combined FPS and Flight play...but in the end everything points to Chris wanting to make a bog standard "cinematic" action game that's no different from the first person shooters and third person shooters and open world action/explorers that dominate AAA titles right now, aside from some fighter pilot play. That's the saddest/funniest part of this. His belief that he's a visionary developer is singlehandedly behind the fact that his game is going to be a forgotten, low-quality "me-too" title, easily upstaged by every game it will be compared to. Star Citizen will go down in history, at best, as an "also-ran".
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Mar 2, 2016 15:40
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Fatkraken posted:they're all prime suckers with cash to burn, and the list could be sold to scammers and criminals for a large amount of money It probably already has. There's a couple of Swedish guys in tracksuits out hunting whales right now, I'd imagine.
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Mar 2, 2016 15:42
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Gerblyn posted:I read somewhere that the justification was it was meant to encourage people to move more around the battlefield. In ME1 you could sort of sit down and stay put throughout the whole firefight, while in ME2/3 you'd run out of ammo, so you'd need to venture out to scavenge it mid battle. I just replayed the whole trilogy last month. While I definitely had some situations in ME2 where I had to look for ammo, in ME3, I don't think I ever even came close to running out. There were a lot of big piles of ammo in every single room. To be fair, I didn't use my guns much in ME3, I played as a vanguard, so everyone died as soon as I looked at them. Still, I kind of felt that there was so much ammo in ME3 that the whole ammo system had no point.
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Mar 2, 2016 15:43
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Beet Wagon posted:It probably already has. There's a couple of Swedish guys in tracksuits out hunting whales right now, I'd imagine. Here in Sweden gangsters usually dont' wear track suits. They are far classier than that. 
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Mar 2, 2016 15:46
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EightAce posted:It is simply panic stations. gently caress everything else; SQ42 is the ONLY thing of importance. Wheel out the missus and Fatso once a week and let them say and do literally anything they like to make it look like procedural birds etc are still being worked on . Anyone mouths off on the forums shut them down instantly. How often does Chris rage impotently at Braben and the progress they're making with Elite?
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Mar 2, 2016 15:47
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Gerblyn posted:I read somewhere that the justification was it was meant to encourage people to move more around the battlefield. In ME1 you could sort of sit down and stay put throughout the whole firefight, while in ME2/3 you'd run out of ammo, so you'd need to venture out to scavenge it mid battle. That seems silly when you could just consider the layout of the maps and distribution of enemies to encourage players to move around. Though Mass Effect did have some pretty bad map designs so that may have seemed sensible to them.
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Mar 2, 2016 15:47
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