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Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

I think it's for mice.

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DrSunshine
Mar 23, 2009

Did I just say that out loud~~?!!!
In the last desperate years of the war, the Germans refocused their tank designs from ever-larger monstrosities such as the Maus and Ratte, to ever-smaller ones, eventually culminating in an experimental design involving up to a million micro-tanks 6 cm long, controlled by remote control. It is believed that Nazi scientists even had plans for tanks the size of a human red blood cell, which would be capable of executing a Blitzkrieg against an enemy's immune system.

Fututor Magnus
Feb 22, 2016

by FactsAreUseless
Is there anyone else who thinks that Paradox hosed Sengoku when it was perfectly possible for them to have made it far more interesting than it was? I can respect if the problem was lack of funding for the project or lack of time, but aside from that, there was so much possibility.

There are few historical periods as awesome as Sengoku Japan, and few historical characters as inspiring as Tokugawa Ieyasu (others consider Nobunaga more interesting, but I have to disagree). There was just so much to the culture and dynamics of the period, especially when it comes to how different warlords interacted with each other and how cultural minutiae played into greater geopolitical outcomes. I mean, just read Morgan Pitelka's Spectacular Accumulation or his blog and see if you disagree that Paradox had a wealth of possibilities for interesting game mechanics directly congruent with the very set-up of the game (playing a noble interacting with other nobles).

Aside from the literature, I've also come to this conclusion through listening to the podcast by the Samurai Archives people and some other blogs by specialist historians.

It's sad that the other game based on the period and similar gameplay, Samurai Total War, was even worse in this regard.

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011

Sengoku was a weird departure from previously complex games. I remember buying it thinking I was getting EU3, the Japanese edition and was pretty disappointed. But I did it on assumptions and hadn't researched the game at all besides a screenshot or two so probably my own drat fault.

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010

They should have made it more anime.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Sengoku was a cash grab/test for CK2 while it and EUIV were still in development.

The Mantis
Jul 19, 2004

what is yall sayin?

DrSunshine posted:

In the last desperate years of the war, the Germans refocused their tank designs from ever-larger monstrosities such as the Maus and Ratte, to ever-smaller ones, eventually culminating in an experimental design involving up to a million micro-tanks 6 cm long, controlled by remote control. It is believed that Nazi scientists even had plans for tanks the size of a human red blood cell, which would be capable of executing a Blitzkrieg against an enemy's immune system.

owns

wargames
Mar 16, 2008

official yospos cat censor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N8V_eWCMIM

Koramei
Nov 11, 2011

I have three regrets
The first is to be born in Joseon.

Fututor Magnus posted:

It's sad that the other game based on the period and similar gameplay, Samurai Total War, was even worse in this regard.

:eyepop:

Shogun 2 Total War is one of the best strategy games ever made, hope this helps

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

Fututor Magnus
Feb 22, 2016

by FactsAreUseless

Koramei posted:

:eyepop:

Shogun 2 Total War is one of the best strategy games ever made, hope this helps

The gameplay and strategy was fine, but I'm speaking in terms of the geopolitical aspects of the Sengoku era which could have been been inspiration for more interesting content. Granted this would have been more Sengoku's domain than Shogun 2's, with Total War being generally facile when more complex aspects of geopolitics are concerned.

Pimpmust
Oct 1, 2008

DrSunshine posted:

In the last desperate years of the war, the Germans refocused their tank designs from ever-larger monstrosities such as the Maus and Ratte, to ever-smaller ones, eventually culminating in an experimental design involving up to a million micro-tanks 6 cm long, controlled by remote control. It is believed that Nazi scientists even had plans for tanks the size of a human red blood cell, which would be capable of executing a Blitzkrieg against an enemy's immune system.

Reminded me of a... Superman comic? from the 80ies where some Teddy Bear inventor-turned-supervillain (Toyman?) litters the city with various deadly toys, including a tiny tank that a garbage man finds in the opening - it promptly blows his head off when he picks it up for a closer look.

Explosive Teddy Bears were also involved (to tie into that HoIIV AAR with Pacifist Germany airdropping Teddy Bears on the Soviet Union).

Gantolandon
Aug 19, 2012

Fututor Magnus posted:

Is there anyone else who thinks that Paradox hosed Sengoku when it was perfectly possible for them to have made it far more interesting than it was? I can respect if the problem was lack of funding for the project or lack of time, but aside from that, there was so much possibility.

Wasn't there a mod remaking Sengoku in CK2?

Mans
Sep 14, 2011

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Russian bias strucks again

GrossMurpel
Apr 8, 2011

Fututor Magnus posted:

The gameplay and strategy was fine, but I'm speaking in terms of the geopolitical aspects of the Sengoku era which could have been been inspiration for more interesting content. Granted this would have been more Sengoku's domain than Shogun 2's, with Total War being generally facile when more complex aspects of geopolitics are concerned.

Who cares, install FotS and watch Samurai run into your gatling guns.

Psychotic Weasel
Jun 24, 2004

Bang! You're dead.

GrossMurpel posted:

Who cares, install FotS and watch Samurai run into your gatling guns.

I like Fall of the Samurai because it's the closest we've gotten to some modern era in a Total War game.

I wish they would try creating a game that covered parts of the late 19th and/or early 20th century in Europe or the Americas but I don't know how they'd get the gameplay systems they've developed to work with things like long range artillery or aircraft.

But I digress; still looking to this weekend's Stellaris event to see if we have anything new to talk about.

Psychotic Weasel fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Mar 3, 2016

Nicodemus Dumps
Jan 9, 2006

Just chillin' in the sink

Psychotic Weasel posted:

I like Fall of the Samurai because it's the closest we've gotten to some modern era in a Total War game.

I wish they would try creating a game that covered parts of the late 19th and/or early 20th century in Europe or the Americas but I don't know how they'd get the gameplay systems they've developed to work with things like long range artillery or aircraft.

But I digress; still looking to this weekend's Stellaris event to see if we have anything new to talk about.

Warhammer should give us an idea of how they're gonna handle more diverse unit types like that in the future.

Finally getting around to watching the world war Wednesdays, I really like how this Troy Goodfellow fellow explains the game.

Ms Adequate
Oct 30, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling



popewiles posted:

Warhammer should give us an idea of how they're gonna handle more diverse unit types like that in the future.

Finally getting around to watching the world war Wednesdays, I really like how this Troy Goodfellow fellow explains the game.

Troy's good people, so are his nerdy friends at Three Moves Ahead, it's one of the few places that has strategy opinions I give a poo poo about.

EasternBronze
Jul 19, 2011

I registered for the Selective Service! I'm also racist as fuck!
:downsbravo:
Don't forget to ignore me!

Fututor Magnus posted:

Is there anyone else who thinks that Paradox hosed Sengoku when it was perfectly possible for them to have made it far more interesting than it was? I can respect if the problem was lack of funding for the project or lack of time, but aside from that, there was so much possibility.

There are few historical periods as awesome as Sengoku Japan, and few historical characters as inspiring as Tokugawa Ieyasu (others consider Nobunaga more interesting, but I have to disagree). There was just so much to the culture and dynamics of the period, especially when it comes to how different warlords interacted with each other and how cultural minutiae played into greater geopolitical outcomes. I mean, just read Morgan Pitelka's Spectacular Accumulation or his blog and see if you disagree that Paradox had a wealth of possibilities for interesting game mechanics directly congruent with the very set-up of the game (playing a noble interacting with other nobles).

Aside from the literature, I've also come to this conclusion through listening to the podcast by the Samurai Archives people and some other blogs by specialist historians.

It's sad that the other game based on the period and similar gameplay, Samurai Total War, was even worse in this regard.

Sengoku was straight up a ripoff. At least EU:Rome got an expansion.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Just watched about an hour of a Master of Orion early access stream. I know it's early access but it looks like they took the worst fiddly bits of moo2's planet management, combined it with the shallow real time combat of moo3, and Civ5's tech tree. Great voice cast though.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
What lines do they actually get though? Does the game have a plot or do you just get the Joker and Worf yelling at you about resource shortages?

Bel Monte
Oct 9, 2012

Gort posted:

What lines do they actually get though? Does the game have a plot or do you just get the Joker and Worf yelling at you about resource shortages?

Seems you have an adviser per race, and each adviser has a decent voice actor.

Like, I can give the game lots of poo poo for bad design. But the UI and voice acting? Pretty awesome. Shame prolly most of their budget went to getting Mark Hamal as bird dude, rather than getting more in depth gameplay. I know it's a stereotype to get dread over "updating and bringing a game into a new era of gameplay" but it's real. It's not good. It's not bad, but it's not good.

It really suffers from the same "I wish it was simcity in 3d" problems.

Honestly, I suspect paradox is snatching up discarded and trashed genres and hoping to "monopolize" the genre that other studios/publishers won't invest in. I mean, I doubt EA can release a competitor to Cities Skylines to be honest. It's just not in their business to compete. Competition in the software world isn't good for EA, only in the hardware world do they compete. Whereas, Paradox is great at strategy....and that's probably it for now. But they're branching. They're finding out what they can do. The canceled strategy/RPG nordic game they were working on? That's just the beginning. I don't expect great strides in the RPG genre, but if they can somehow expand within the CK2 model to other forgotten or unloved game genres that has a market long forgotten, I think Paradox will get in on it.

Edit: Speaking of, didn't they buy up White Wolf?
Yeah, they're definitely trying to expand outside strategy.

Bel Monte fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Mar 4, 2016

Koramei
Nov 11, 2011

I have three regrets
The first is to be born in Joseon.
The new HOI4 dev diary is on China. I was a little concerned when Podcat said they weren't getting a national focus tree, but it looks like they're still getting some attention, so that's good.

GrossMurpel
Apr 8, 2011

Psychotic Weasel posted:

I like Fall of the Samurai because it's the closest we've gotten to some modern era in a Total War game.

I wish they would try creating a game that covered parts of the late 19th and/or early 20th century in Europe or the Americas but I don't know how they'd get the gameplay systems they've developed to work with things like long range artillery or aircraft.


It would have to be very early 20th century though. TW would stop being TW as soon as you stop using line formations.

Dibujante
Jul 27, 2004

GrossMurpel posted:

It would have to be very early 20th century though. TW would stop being TW as soon as you stop using line formations.

So you can use it for the American Civil War to hilariously destructive effect.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Koramei posted:

The new HOI4 dev diary is on China. I was a little concerned when Podcat said they weren't getting a national focus tree, but it looks like they're still getting some attention, so that's good.

Yeah, sounds like they're getting intensive event-chains rather than national focuses.

I guess this is part of the limitations of national focuses - certain things have to be "set in stone" to some degree in order for them to work. For example, if China had a national focus tree where they joined the Axis, a lot of Japan's national focuses wouldn't work - EG: Sever Sino-German ties. Someone has to be "in charge" and I guess out of Japan and China they chose Japan.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

Gort posted:

I guess this is part of the limitations of national focuses - certain things have to be "set in stone" to some degree in order for them to work. For example, if China had a national focus tree where they joined the Axis, a lot of Japan's national focuses wouldn't work - EG: Sever Sino-German ties. Someone has to be "in charge" and I guess out of Japan and China they chose Japan.
Germany has a "Befriend Japan" vs. "Befriend China" decision in their national focus tree though, meaning Germany can already seemingly override Japan. I don't see a reason why China and Japan couldn't both have the option to suck up to Germany, and then have it be up to Germany what it will do. I mean, they have requirements, so China's could be one that basically means Japan clearly isn't going to have much if any luck in China anyway.

Empress Theonora
Feb 19, 2001

She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.
There's so many mutually contradictory things in the National Focus trees I'm sure there's some kind of system in place to resolve what happens if e.g. both France and Germany take their pro-Soviet options and then go to war with one another, or whatever.

EDIT: Dev diary link.

Empress Theonora fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Mar 4, 2016

Pimpmust
Oct 1, 2008

It seems decision triggers an event in the affected country (at least for players, who can choose to not accept annexations), and/or modifies the AI response choice % so it takes into account what the other big countries are "supporting" through their choices (Japan might still say "gently caress it" if both Germany and the Soviets are supporting China, but maybe they don't end up allying with Germany then). So for example the base % of an event might look something like Germany will Annex Latveria 95% of the times (option A) but if the Soviet Union picks "Support Latveria" in their Focus tree then the Germany AI switches to 25% Choice A and 75% Choice B (Stay Away).

MP will play out differently and I guess players will simply choose to either come to agreement between each other before going down Focus trees or simply pick paths that will simply be denied by the recieving player (forced annexation).
Although it would be funny if players could agree to annexation and then the game would automatically place them in joint control of the unified country (Germany and Austria for example).


Brainstorming for the part with rail-roady events dictating how post war China looks, a later expansion could put in some mechanics to give better direct control over how it turns out. For example let Communist China build up hidden support in chinese regions which dictates what parts they get control of (with a lean/bonus towards border states with a surviving Soviet Union), while Nationalist China tries to keep a lid on it. Outside major nations can use the diplomatic or later spy interfaces to lend their own support to whatever faction they prefer (also raising relations). Something like the Vicky II influence mechanics (but more streamlined) or even colonisation mechanics. Preferably generalized to work with any large nation divided in civil war (ala Rome?).

Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Mar 4, 2016

Shark Sandwich
Sep 6, 2010

by R. Guyovich
It's gonna be fun to see what crazy focus trees the Kaiserreich folks cook up

Enjoy
Apr 18, 2009
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/as-a-newcomer-here-theres-something-disturbing.911929/

lmao, it has 28 neo-downvotes

PleasingFungus
Oct 10, 2012
idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

hm. i don't want to overreach, but it seems to me that the people responding to that thread are very bad.

Soup du Jour
Sep 8, 2011

I always knew I'd die with a headache.


:lol: A guy transparently named after David Duke talking about how real racism is towards white people

Average Lettuce
Oct 22, 2012


quote:

If you don't agree I don't care, you can probably get me banned, but you cannot intimidate me.

The guy spoke as respectfully as he could and this guy responds as if it was a personal attack on him lol

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Soup du Jour posted:

:lol: A guy transparently named after David Duke talking about how real racism is towards white people

Don't forget such a gem as:

quote:

Oh and just so you know, Islam is not a race, so that word you keep using - racism - is invalid.

See! It's not actually racism. :colbert:

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

Camoes posted:

The guy spoke as respectfully as he could and this guy responds as if it was a personal attack on him lol
PDX forums .txt

Ham Sandwiches
Jul 7, 2000

Camoes posted:

The guy spoke as respectfully as he could and this guy responds as if it was a personal attack on him lol

Every forum ever.txt.

If you disagree with someone you are doing like the worst thing in the world and are so loving maaaaaaaaaaaaaad, why are you starting poo poo bro?

Kaza42
Oct 3, 2013

Blood and Souls and all that

Rakthar posted:

Every forum ever.txt.

If you disagree with someone you are doing like the worst thing in the world and are so loving maaaaaaaaaaaaaad, why are you starting poo poo bro?

That's stupid and wrong, why don't you go take your forums-equivalence bullshit nonsense somewhere else? Skeleton warriors like you ruin everything

Empress Theonora
Feb 19, 2001

She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.

quote:

No one talked about muslims in a wrong way, we just expressed a positive reaction at the idea that Islam could disappear.

Agree x 15 / Respectfully Disagree x 3

Paradox should really fix their loving community.

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Brandon Proust
Jun 22, 2006

"Like many intellectuals, he was incapable of scoring a simple goal in a simple way"

Empress Theonora posted:

Agree x 15 / Respectfully Disagree x 3

Paradox should really fix their loving community.

Paradox should replace their forums with a link to this thread :getin:

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