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Berke Negri posted:i think you need to willfully insert personal feelings to think that jesus did not think of himself as divine, as there is no proof he didn't okay, i get that. I still think you should read him btw, i really enjoyed "Did Jesus Exist?: The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth" a lot
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Mar 4, 2016 02:27
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Berke Negri posted:he still is really defensive about having a tiny dick though and tiny fingers
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Mar 4, 2016 02:27
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Sinnlos posted:Yes. Ehrman's assertion that Jesus was merely a apocalyptic cult leader who expected to die in the apocalypse himself, has no real ground to stand on. Yeah, there's a lot of revisionism that smacks of, even from an atheist stand point, trying to rehabilitate jesus or the gospels and i think that's kind of wrong but i can get the politics behind it
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Mar 4, 2016 02:28
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Isn't revising Jesus to just be some guy just basically trying to poo poo on Christianity.
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Mar 4, 2016 02:29
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it's very interesting reading about jesus mythicists b/c the loops they tie themselves into can get very intellectually dishonest in a very complex way
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Mar 4, 2016 02:30
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Rollofthedice posted:okay, i get that. i mean it isn't really my scene anymore, but i've been reading this all for awhile instead of getting laid i spent a lot of high school reading pagels et al the question of did jesus exist is typically a non-starter as "yes" outside of a very dedicated fringe though
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Mar 4, 2016 02:30
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Rollofthedice posted:so does every lonely teenager on the face of the goddamn earth, venom snake hey i didn't bring it up
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Mar 4, 2016 02:30
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Berke Negri posted:getting real mad about paul as well, comes off as revisionist to me towards some kind of imagined good times before things went bad kind of thinking the good times is before christianity was an established church and part of the imperial power structure and thus did exist, from a certain point of view
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Mar 4, 2016 02:32
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Rollofthedice posted:it's very interesting reading about jesus mythicists b/c the loops they tie themselves into can get very intellectually dishonest in a very complex way Same with the writings of Ehrman. How Jesus Became God is, quite frankly, a load of crock, that willfully ignores what we know about the Levant in the early Common Era.
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Mar 4, 2016 02:32
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we need more jesus scholars imo
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Mar 4, 2016 02:33
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Venom Snake posted:hey i didn't bring it up yes you did Venom Snake posted:i wish i had dates
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Mar 4, 2016 02:33
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site posted:Isn't revising Jesus to just be some guy just basically trying to poo poo on Christianity. it depends how you're framing this but a lot of people involved in bible criticism and studies can be former very devout christians so you can sometimes get this like feedback loop where they still try to rehabilitate Christ while trying to parcel out all the religion/mythology around him
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Mar 4, 2016 02:33
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UberJew posted:the good times is before christianity was an established church and part of the imperial power structure and thus did exist, from a certain point of view also wrong i think
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Mar 4, 2016 02:33
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Rollofthedice posted:yes you did he meant the fruit of the date palm
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Mar 4, 2016 02:35
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Berke Negri posted:it depends how you're framing this but a lot of people involved in bible criticism and studies can be former very devout christians so you can sometimes get this like feedback loop where they still try to rehabilitate Christ while trying to parcel out all the religion/mythology around him Well okay, I guess my question is what is the end goal of making him just a loony but charismatic guy?
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Mar 4, 2016 02:35
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"everything going wrong once the church was institutionalized apart of rome" is another big red flag of mine
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Mar 4, 2016 02:35
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UberJew posted:the good times is before christianity was an established church and part of the imperial power structure and thus did exist, from a certain point of view Getting brutally tortured and executed: good times. 
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Mar 4, 2016 02:36
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so this was my internal monologue for the past 7 hours https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3utP44UWmY
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Mar 4, 2016 02:37
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Berke Negri posted:"everything going wrong once the church was institutionalized apart of rome" is another big red flag of mine i didn't know many people still followed the edward gibbon way of looking at things
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Mar 4, 2016 02:37
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site posted:Well okay, I guess my question is what is the end goal of making him just a loony but charismatic guy? i mean politely you generally leave the interpretation open to "maybe he was right" but otherwise i mean how else do you parse it
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Mar 4, 2016 02:37
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Berke Negri posted:"everything going wrong once the church was institutionalized apart of rome" is another big red flag of mine no im saying it became bad because rome was unjust and awful in specific and established churches are bad in general
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Mar 4, 2016 02:37
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the baptist approach
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Mar 4, 2016 02:38
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Rollofthedice posted:i didn't know many people still followed the edward gibbon way of looking at things my man have you read an SA thread on religion, or anywhere, ever
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Mar 4, 2016 02:38
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Berke Negri posted:my man have you read an SA thread on religion, or anywhere, ever actually i try not to, but okay, let me rephrase that i didn't know many people who wrote books about christianity still followed the edward gibbon way of looking at things
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Mar 4, 2016 02:40
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Am I going to watch this debate or play video games
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Mar 4, 2016 02:40
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Berke Negri posted:i mean politely you generally leave the interpretation open to "maybe he was right" but otherwise i mean how else do you parse it Sorry, I need to start closing down at work but I mean, does that kind of revisionism "help" his message or the church somehow in the eyes of the people doing the revising? What are they trying to accomplish by saying ”look he wasn't really divine, but...”?
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Mar 4, 2016 02:41
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:Am I going to watch this debate or play video games play video games, the debates have all been really boring outside of a handful of soundbites you can watch the next day
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Mar 4, 2016 02:42
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Ehrman: Jesus Christ
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Mar 4, 2016 02:42
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UberJew posted:no im saying it became bad because rome was unjust and awful in specific and established churches are bad in general i mean yeah sure though the thing is even before constantine the church was already very integrated and woven through roman society there's a reason why it became the state religion, in a way, and it wasn't like throwing poo poo at dart boards
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Mar 4, 2016 02:42
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Berke Negri posted:i mean yeah sure or maybe Constantine did witness a divine miracle
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Mar 4, 2016 02:43
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site posted:Sorry, I need to start closing down at work but I mean, does that kind of revisionism "help" his message or the church somehow in the eyes of the people doing the revising? i don't think biblical criticism should be generally concerned with "helping" jesus and his message
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Mar 4, 2016 02:43
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:play video games, the debates have all been really boring outside of a handful of soundbites you can watch the next day My thing is that my sinuses make me want to die right now and I'm not sure I can concentrate on games, but I'm also not sure that I can stand to watch the debate
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Mar 4, 2016 02:44
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Avshalom posted:are you going to keep throwing babby tantrums every single time i'm mentioned for the next twenty years because i once insulted you in ladythread Avshalom posted:but yes what this forum needs is less jokes, more: Avshalom posted:in closing, no woman will ever love you as much as i love ariel sharon, and no woman will ever even love you as much as i love bibi lol
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Mar 4, 2016 02:45
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Berke Negri posted:i mean yeah sure yeah for obvious reasons I do not actually have strong opinions or significant knowledge of the early church so I wouldn't make any claim more specific than I just did
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Mar 4, 2016 02:45
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Jagchosis posted:does trump consider himself divine no thats a word he'd use to describe his daughter
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Mar 4, 2016 02:46
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bill oreilly and dana perino arzying it up on the pre-debate show
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Mar 4, 2016 02:47
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sinnlos is there a halfway decent general history of christianity out there
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Mar 4, 2016 02:49
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UberJew posted:yeah for obvious reasons I do not actually have strong opinions or significant knowledge of the early church so I wouldn't make any claim more specific than I just did i mean the early church definitely existed differently for two and a half centuries prior to i guess you could say recognition but generally i lean on the side of when it did become official it wasnt like "actual" christianity was being tarnished but just finally codified though there were deffo disputes left and right what that christianity "was" before
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Mar 4, 2016 02:49
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dana perino that's a name that takes me back
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Mar 4, 2016 02:50
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Berke Negri posted:dana perino
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Mar 4, 2016 02:51
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