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pathetic little tramp posted:Allowing Spriggans to eat meat would make them game-breakingly overpowered.
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Mar 3, 2016 19:20
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Spriggans vegetarian downside seems like it might be a bit outdated. A few years back it was more annoying, but at some point it seems like food spawns got increased. Since I started playing again I don't think I've ever been in danger due to lack of food. (thank god, that sucked)
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Mar 3, 2016 19:22
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I starved a deep elf to death the other week. Right after Firestorm got castable too, drat it. (my fault, I foolishly made an armour shop that proved useless rather than a food shop. gozaaaag  )
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Mar 3, 2016 19:26
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neongrey posted:I starved a deep elf to death the other week. Right after Firestorm got castable too, drat it. Why were you using gozag on a DE caster
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Mar 3, 2016 19:34
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I feel like the only caster who would want to worship Big G is a mummy. (Or a transmuter but they don't really count.)
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Mar 3, 2016 19:47
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PleasingFungus posted:Hypothetical Optimal Man would be a very good enemy for the April Fool's branch. A monster with permenant haste, smite, and orb spider AI.
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Mar 3, 2016 19:49
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Gozag more like go zig!!!
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Mar 3, 2016 19:50
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Floodkiller posted:A monster with permenant haste, smite, and orb spider AI. It's hilariously dangerous and has an incredibly nasty spell set, but has something like a 90% chance to cantrip instead, and all its cantrip messages are stuff like "the Optimal Man obsessively fiddles with his jewelry" and "the Optimal Man counts seconds under his breath."
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Mar 3, 2016 19:54
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:I feel like the only caster who would want to worship Big G is a mummy. (Or a transmuter but they don't really count.) Or a Spriggan. If you commit to spending money on food shops it probably makes high-level casting manageable. And if the only reason that Gourmand can't be changed to make all food more nutritious is that it would make a spriggan able to eat meat, just keep it so they can't eat meat, right? There's so much food now that it almost wouldn't make a difference either way.
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Mar 3, 2016 19:58
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Floodkiller posted:A monster with permenant haste, smite, and orb spider AI. Make a unique centaur with exactly the same stats as other centaurs but AI that actually avoids melee.
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Mar 3, 2016 20:03
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That's pretty close to Nessos (he will take an occasional swing if he's adjacent but he's more likely to either Blink or just shoot you again). And he's a pretty nasty encounter for most combinations.
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Mar 3, 2016 20:09
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Superterranean posted:Why were you using gozag on a DE caster Felt like fiddling with him, wanted to see how well gaining spells via book shops was relative to spells via sif books/veh offers worked; DE doesn't need a lot of help on the casting end either so I felt okay with the decision and it was doing nicely right up until I made the bad decision that condemned me to a slow, agonizing death. Not a hypothetically optimal choice but I was throwing stuff at the wall to see what stuck. neongrey fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Mar 3, 2016 |
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Mar 3, 2016 20:21
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I'm glad HAM is dead
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Mar 3, 2016 20:24
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The Pallekas treasure trove is super good. Walking out of a joint with HW, haste, 2 rods, a phantom mirror, 3 recharge scrolls, and a bunch of other stuff is nice instead of the usual grab bag of disappointment.
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Mar 3, 2016 21:11
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Casters that might want to worship Gozag: My own opinion: Draconian Venom Mages. Poison magic is relatively easy to manage hunger for, maxing out at level six. Excerpts from the lg bots counting recently won games with the god Gozag: #1: 117 Fighters #7: 25 Enchanters (huh?) #8: 21 Wizards #10: 19 Transmuters (why?) #11: 18 Skald (I would have guessed a little higher, but I guess okawaru and/or ash #12: 17 Venom Mage Anyways, there are 12 spriggan enchanters and 7 spriggan venom mages (not like you're eating chunks anyways). Also, six octopode transmuters of Gozag that surprised me. The majority easily consists of fighters, gladiators, wanders, assassins, monks, and artificiers, however. A racial breakdown on its own is a little boring, with the lead going to mummies taking a big lead with spriggans, on roughly the same level as demonspawn, minotaurs and humans for second place.
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Mar 3, 2016 21:15
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Gold-confused enemies are vulnerable to stabbing, which I assume is why Enchanters are on that list.
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Mar 3, 2016 21:20
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LordSloth posted:Casters that might want to worship Gozag: I'm guessing Enchanters are just because Sp and Vp can deal with Gozag food problems relatively easily. Well Sp can at least. Vp runs into problems if you get low on HP and have no easy stabs to vampirize from, but you can backtrack to your single blood shop and pay like 50 gold to heal to full. Maybe this is a bit of a dumb optimal mechanic, since you can't just buy !blood or it'll eventually spoil but shops have magic refrigerators. Maybe "home-bottled" blood should rot away but shop blood should last forever, but that might be OP. RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Mar 3, 2016 |
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Mar 3, 2016 21:21
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Gozag is really good for enchanters. They're pretty hunger efficient unless you're branching out into big hexes, and even then. And gold stabs do stuff. Only issue is what to spend all the money on. SpEn especially with reduced gear slots.
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Mar 3, 2016 21:45
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LordSloth posted:Casters that might want to worship Gozag: Having recently played an 'pode transmuter of gozag, it's pretty simple: Octopode ring bonus works well with transmutations, Gozag is very good at gifting rings, the hunger issue is pretty minor early on and later you can wield |energy that gets melded into your blade/hydra/dragon hands, and Gozag is a Good God with Nice Benefits with little drawback. Gold paralysis is useful even if you're not stabbing dudes or megazigging, potions on demand is a good emergency button, and infinite consumables via shops is great. e: Octopodes & Vinestalkers are really good Gozag races imo, I think mummies are overrated. One of the dangers of Gozag is leaning too heavily on petitions in the early game because you are weak, and running into a vicious cycle of poverty. Mummies lovely early game doesn't mesh well with that. Darox fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Mar 3, 2016 |
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Mar 3, 2016 22:28
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IronicDongz posted:Would it? What would it affect, exactly? I don't play them much but I've never ran out of food as a spriggan(or even come that close, actually) and I always cast spells with them. Matlock Birthmark posted:Spriggans vegetarian downside seems like it might be a bit outdated. A few years back it was more annoying, but at some point it seems like food spawns got increased. Since I started playing again I don't think I've ever been in danger due to lack of food. (thank god, that sucked) What this guy said - I've not played in a while (0.15 I think?) but it used to be pretty tough to get their food cost per spell down to last you through to lair and the S branches.
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Mar 3, 2016 22:56
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Hives' noble sacrifice brought about the addition of several early game food-vaults, so food is basically irrelevant for most characters now, including spriggans who are halfway careful about spells (and gozag worshippers). Hive, you shining star.
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Mar 3, 2016 23:08
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Darox posted:Hives' noble sacrifice brought about the addition of several early game food-vaults, so food is basically irrelevant for most characters now, including spriggans who are halfway careful about spells (and gozag worshippers). Then I'm thankful for its sacrifice. Hive was so boring, so it's nice food is more scattered now.
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Mar 3, 2016 23:11
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Obviously the solution is to introduce a couple red wasp/deep water vaults.
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Mar 4, 2016 02:28
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IronicDongz posted:remove hunger as a mechanic 2k16 Bring back Nausea 2016 All this 'quality of life' stuff is making us lazy and weak as players, gotta return to the old days of having to fiddle with Scrolls of Detect Curse to avoid starvation deaths. Because that was good and fun, obviously. edit, gonna clarify this excessively because people on the internet usually can't understand sarcasm: I'm agreeing that hunger is boring and rarely adds any challenge or tactical decisions outside of heavy casting/berserking in which case it mainly adds tedium and annoyance, so it can be safely removed without ruining the game. silentsnack fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Mar 4, 2016 |
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Mar 4, 2016 03:03
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it was cool when you'd starve because you wielded some cursed poo poo on d:1
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Mar 4, 2016 03:15
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How bad is the aspd penalty for a melee fighter wearing a shield they are underskilled for?
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Mar 4, 2016 08:59
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It's moderately randomized, but assuming you have some skill, it's not so bad- though that depends on race and shield size. I may also be wrong guessing what you mean by aspd.
LordSloth fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Mar 4, 2016 |
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Mar 4, 2016 09:10
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Attackspeed, yeah. I guess I more meant how bad are the downsides in general (are there others?) Medium size race, large shield, 15 skill
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Mar 4, 2016 09:17
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You're losing some more EV also (and probably stealth?), not getting as much SH as if you had more skill, and it affects spellcasting. I'd usually be fine with it, but want to get to 20 Shields when feasible.
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Mar 4, 2016 09:22
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Thanks - think it's probably worth the trade offs in this case. Playing as Zin for the first time - i'm at 21 invocations after clearing Dungeon1-15, Lair, and Swamp. I'm almost never seeing salt pillars and it's making me deeply sad. Does it just check your invocation skill to determine the power of the result? Or is it Invo vs HD?
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Mar 4, 2016 10:29
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Nique posted:Thanks - think it's probably worth the trade offs in this case. It's a combination of Invo, HD, and monster type (e: and piety). The effectiveness of your recital depends on the kind of monsters affected by it. I can't remember the exact order of effectiveness, but it's something like Chaotic > Demonic/Undead > Heretical > Natural. You won't get salt pillars on natural enemies, so lair and swamp have very little that cares about recite except bog bodies/vamp mosquitos, unless you get one of the demon/undead endings. e2: by 'Natural' I mean intelligent unaffiliated monsters, like centaurs. Hydras don't care about the good word. Darox fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Mar 4, 2016 |
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Mar 4, 2016 10:48
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Ah that makes sense, thanks. I was diving into Vaults so lots of orcs and humans. Side note: Zin is the bomb. Got banished and watching Wretched Stars ineffectually pulse at me was deeply satisfying. Nique fucked around with this message at 10:59 on Mar 4, 2016 |
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Mar 4, 2016 10:52
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Yeah I'm a big fan of switching to Zin for extended, generally for Tomb (usually I get side 1, side 2, vault, abyss, and slime first). It can go wrong though, I chain-salted a bunch of mummies and was rendered brainless by the resulting stat loss.
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Mar 4, 2016 14:25
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I'd be awfully wary of eating multiple simultaneous Agony death curses that way. I try never to do Tomb without SustAb, but even my rN+++, Torment-resistant, mana-shielded Demonspawn ended up nosediving straight into the red a few times by casting Shatter on greater mummies and priests. Granted, that was mostly in zigs, and zig mummy levels are reliably among the worst clusterfucks you can wander into, but I had a couple of close calls in Tomb itself doing the same thing. That was with Darkness, too. Seriously considering converting to Kiku next time I want to do Tomb.
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Mar 4, 2016 14:55
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If you're doing Tomb with Zin you can just vitalize yourself before killing mummies since it stops nearly every bad thing that can happen to your character. (not death, of course  )
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Mar 4, 2016 20:44
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Scaramouche posted:Yeah I'm a big fan of switching to Zin for extended, generally for Tomb (usually I get side 1, side 2, vault, abyss, and slime first). It can go wrong though, I chain-salted a bunch of mummies and was rendered brainless by the resulting stat loss. Why didn't you Vitalise to become immune to stat loss?
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Mar 4, 2016 21:01
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He was brainless before the stat loss. I'll show myself out.
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Mar 4, 2016 21:23
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Just found the Mask of the Dragon, the Book of the Dragon, and Gold Dragon Armour from a Labyrinth. Is this a pre-programmed stash or did I just get really lucky?
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Mar 4, 2016 23:01
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You got lucky; I can't think of any pre-genned stashes that don't have their own vault and they're only dedicated to a single item.
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Mar 4, 2016 23:07
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So what's the tactic for when you're in the abyss? Do you kill the enemies in sight and then press O or just run around in away from them? I tried the former and my very powerful GrEE ended up dead in Abyss:3... It seemed like I was there forever but it was only about 4000 turns. Never saw the rune, only saw one exit the whole time.
Unimpressed fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Mar 5, 2016 |
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Mar 5, 2016 05:36
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