|
GreyjoyBastard posted:What about the  Spot East Germany and the Czech Republic.
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2016 21:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 07:58 |
|
|
HEY GAL posted:lol no ...actually, it was really about secularized bishopric's rights...
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2016 21:04
|
|
|
Tevery Best posted:COSSACKS: A warlike Russian tribe, known for charging the enemy with the battle cry "YOB TVOYU MAT'", meaning This is the first time that something I learned from a Tom Clamcy book has helped me to understand a post in this thread. I wonder if the poor interpretation is intentional.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2016 21:09
|
|
|
P-Mack posted:...actually, it was really about secularized bishopric's rights... edit: there's at least one battle from late in the war where forces working for Hesse-Cassel fought against some working for Hesse-Darmstadt, and you're like who caaaares HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Mar 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2016 21:19
|
|
|
Nebakenezzer posted:Jesus, von Falkenhayn has already forgotten his brilliant master plan? I'm not sure I'd say he's forgotten it, but there's a major disconnect between "here is what is happening at the moment" and "here is how it helps us achieve the objective". Generals are boring, but it's relatively interesting to compare this to e.g. Joffre's mindset during the 1915 offensives, or Haig's mindset on the Somme (or at Loos, or Passchendaele...). In isolation Haig looks like a uniquely deluded butcher, but in context he just looks desperately unexceptional.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2016 22:01
|
|
|
Trin Tragula posted:I'm not sure I'd say he's forgotten it, but there's a major disconnect between "here is what is happening at the moment" and "here is how it helps us achieve the objective". Generals are boring, but it's relatively interesting to compare this to e.g. Joffre's mindset during the 1915 offensives, or Haig's mindset on the Somme (or at Loos, or Passchendaele...). In isolation Haig looks like a uniquely deluded butcher, but in context he just looks desperately unexceptional. It's because that breakthrough is right round the corner guys!!!
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 00:43
|
|
|
Kemper Boyd posted:You couldn't really do 20th century style propaganda in the 30 Years War either. this has me curious what early modern propaganda would have looked like, at least in the military sense. it seems like the average civilian during the 30 years war hated basically all soldiers -- would there have been any point to propaganda that tried to paint enemy soldiers in a negative light? or was it more propaganda that played up the actual atrocities that occurred? My gut assumption is most propaganda would have been aimed at the elite - trying to weaken alliances, etc. Was there anything similar aimed at "commoners" ? Or maybe propaganda that tried to hamper recruitment efforts? Don't sign up with Wallenstein, he's an rear end in a top hat kind of thing?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 01:06
|
|
|
shallowj posted:this has me curious what early modern propaganda would have looked like, at least in the military sense. it seems like the average civilian during the 30 years war hated basically all soldiers -- would there have been any point to propaganda that tried to paint enemy soldiers in a negative light? or was it more propaganda that played up the actual atrocities that occurred? My gut assumption is most propaganda would have been aimed at the elite - trying to weaken alliances, etc. Was there anything similar aimed at "commoners" ? Or maybe propaganda that tried to hamper recruitment efforts? Don't sign up with Wallenstein, he's an rear end in a top hat kind of thing?  "Swedish Rescue of the Christian Churches" from 1631. The seven-headed dragon is the Pope.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 01:26
|
|
|
HEY GAL posted:WATCH THE ELECTOR PALATINE START A loving WAR germans still call it the Magdeburg Wedding, by the way. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdeburger_Hochzeit fun times (Magdeburg means "maiden city" and Tilly was a 72-year-old virgin. If you're a terrible person, the jokes write themselves.) Edit: I have seen some broadsheets making fun of the Imperialist general Holck for enriching himself shamelessly through plunder, but that was about him, not about his soldiers. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Mar 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 02:07
|
|
|
The question is, how old was the city?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 02:23
|
|
|
Mrs Magdeburg, you're trying to seduce me, aren't you?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 02:28
|
|
|
Waci posted:The question is, how old was the city?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 02:29
|
|
|
There's a lot of anti-Irish propaganda in England after the rebellion. http://www.hallamor.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Wenceslaus_Hollar_%E2%80%93_supposed_Irish_atrocities_during_the_Rebellion_of_1641.jpg Also, it's not about military matters, but Middleton's Game at Chess is awesome, and was probably only allowed to be shown because the Master of Revels was being pressured by Buckingham to give a pass to pro-war material.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 02:32
|
|
|
Illegal Username posted:Tiger, tiger, burning bright Ensign Expendable posted:Someone did the entire poem in an old WoT forums thread that was swiftly deleted, I only remember the first stanza: A bit rough, but if I apply the very few things I still remember about poesy from school: Tiger, tiger, burning bright In the forests of the night What slavic shell or yankee round Could pierce thy krupp steel frame? Tiger, Tiger, burning bright in the middle of the fight What Belorussian hand or eye could rend thy fearful symmetry? (My reasons: "impenetrable" is far too clunky sounding for that last line in the first verse. Too many syllables, too. And "nerf" in a poem about WWII is 100% out of place, that had to go, too.) Now we just need at least one more verse to get a nice ballad!
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 03:02
|
|
|
HEY GAL posted:it only looked young, it was actually a 5,000 year old demon, which makes this fine. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 03:05
|
|
|
Trin Tragula posted:Mrs Magdeburg, you're trying to seduce me, aren't you? Here's to you, Mrs. Magdeburg, Jesus loves you more than you can know oh oh oh
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 03:17
|
|
|
JcDent posted:So how did the light infantry operate in front of their line company? Because now I'm imagining a company marching in line and pairs of light infantry running around (skirmishing) 10 to 20 meters in front of them. Well, it would usually be a battalion deployed in line or column of companies with the light company in skirmish order in front of the other companies. There would be quite a bit more space - Up to a couple hundred meters or so between the battalion front and the skirmishers. Depends on the position of enemy cavalry. Skirmishers fall back before cavalry until they are close enough to form square with the rest of the battalion. In an advance, the light company would rejoin the battalion (by letting the battalion catch up) before volley range and take the far left company position.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 03:32
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Well, it would usually be a battalion deployed in line or column of companies with the light company in skirmish order in front of the other companies. There would be quite a bit more space - Up to a couple hundred meters or so between the battalion front and the skirmishers. Depends on the position of enemy cavalry. Skirmishers fall back before cavalry until they are close enough to form square with the rest of the battalion. In an advance, the light company would rejoin the battalion (by letting the battalion catch up) before volley range and take the far left company position. ... On a related note, why were the Spanish armies so goddamned terrible during the Napoleonic wars? I mean, "led by corrupt aristocrats" only goes so far when it applies to everyone else (besides the French)
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 03:51
|
|
|
Libluini posted:A bit rough, but if I apply the very few things I still remember about poesy from school: Tiger, Tiger, burning bright In the forests of the night What poor bastard conscript crew Must ride thee when the Reds come through? Also maybe that second couplet could be "What slavic shell has made thee tame; what yankee round has pierced thy frame"? Davin Valkri fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Mar 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 03:54
|
|
|
Xander77 posted:Apparently the Sharpe series is actually full of lies, but how good were light rifle companies at taking out enemy officers, really? The Spanish army was insanely underfunded because of the empire's corroded economy so you had a lot of companies that had crappy equipment and were badly paid. Also the Latin American colonies demanded a lot of manpower to pacify (the peninsular war also triggered the various independence movements in Latin America too so they had their hands full there as well).
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 04:08
|
|
|
Libluini posted:[b]Tiger, tiger, burning bright Davin Valkri posted:Tiger, Tiger, burning bright The best I could do. Hope it ain't too derivative. Needs a verse about tank destroyers.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 04:09
|
|
|
and Bears.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 07:53
|
|
|
HEY GAL posted:-or if the British are talking about what's happening in Europe, they're consistently awed and terrified by the normal way of going to war I remember reading something about how propaganda from the 30 YW actually contributed to the whole English Civil War thing. Essentially, it made the English protestants and especially the hardliners, nervous about ending back under catholic power so they might have somewhat overreacted at King Charles being an idiot.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 09:37
|
|
|
Hogge Wild posted:When did field artillery stop using grapeshot, and when did tanks start to use them? Also, can we talk about flechettes and beehives? I'm reading a lot on vietnam at the moment, and apparently flechette "shotgun" rounds were liberally fired from both M-79s and 2.75 FFAR warheads. How effective were they? Troops in the field swore by them, but I also read on wikipedia that they didn't penetrate well at angles. That is, if the things hit you point first it would ruin your whole day, but if they struck you cross-body they would just bounce off.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 10:20
|
|
|
Kemper Boyd posted:I remember reading something about how propaganda from the 30 YW actually contributed to the whole English Civil War thing. Essentially, it made the English protestants and especially the hardliners, nervous about ending back under catholic power so they might have somewhat overreacted at King Charles being an idiot. Well, he was married to a Catholic and some of his advisors were pretty much known to be secretly Catholic, and he was trying to rule without Parliament, and he was openly pushing as high-church a version of Anglicanism as he could, and the last time the country went Catholic under Mary things were not exactly great for leading Protestants. Given the time period, their concern is understandable.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 11:17
|
|
|
Ensign Expendable posted:Would Trump use tank destroyers or towed guns, discuss Trump always wants the joogest most luxurious stuff that eventually always goes down in flames under it's own weight, so my money is on the Elefant.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 12:27
|
|
|
Ratte, duh. And he'll get Russia to pay for it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 13:13
|
|
|
Random diversion: So I'm doing up a sci-fi infantry combat force, and I'm trying to warn my fellow designers (its a collaborative effort) about weight as a combat factor. Amid that, I'm noticing something. IRL, what's the average combat load of an infantryman today? Like, how much stuff are they carrying? And how much did they carry, say, back in the 30 years war? (I know that'd vary hugely between, say, pike people and musket people, but as an average) What I have currently: "100 lbs being *about* what the average infantryman carries today *more or less* IIRC. (Yes I'm rounding off.) If it goes *heavier* you *really have to explain why*. 100 lbs has been the soldier's load going back at least 500 years IRL. The composition of it has varied, but the infantryman? Lugs around 100 lbs." Accurate? Not accurate?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 13:17
|
|
|
As an aside, you'll also want to be looking at ground pressure in your sci-fi infantry combat scenario. *future not-Waffen SS company sinks in a bog and dies while invading future not-Soviet Union planet*
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 13:35
|
|
|
Spacewolf posted:Random diversion: Does it matter for the story being told? IIRC current militaries are already dreaming up all kinds of weight suspension schemes, from robotic mules to exoskeletons - unless it's really what you want to talk about, you could handwave it away, even in a reasonably hard sci-fi setting.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 13:44
|
|
|
MrBling posted:This is going back a few pages, but since nobody replied to you I figured I could give it a go but I doubt you will find many books in English about the invasion (such as it was) and occupation of Denmark. Im a few days(and pages) late getting back to this, but thank you.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 13:47
|
|
|
Davin Valkri posted:Tiger, Tiger, burning bright Grand Prize Winner posted:The best I could do. Hope it ain't too derivative. The Ballad of the Tiger Tiger, tiger, burning bright, in forests shrouded by night What slavic shell or yankee thunder, could rend thy Krupp Steel asunder? Tiger, Tiger, burning bright, in forests shrouded by night What poor bastard conscripts green, must ride thee where Reds are seen? Tiger, tiger, burning bright, in the middle of the fight What slavic shell or yankee flame, could pierce thy Krupp Steel frame? Tiger, Tiger, burning bright, in the middle of the fight What Belorussian hand or eye, could mar thy fearful symmetry? Edit: Even though I'm most likely to be the worst poet ever, I spend some time on smoothing out verse meters and poo poo. Now you could probably stick this little ballad into a poetry collection book and no-one skimming it will notice something awry. Edit2: For the life of me, I couldn't think of a verse about Tank Destroyers. Sorry!
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 14:48
|
|
|
The Tyger happens to fit the 1980s song 'Cult of Personality' and when you know the verses of one and only the music of the other and happen to be knocked out with a fever holy poo poo do you end up with the most bizarre earworm.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 14:55
|
|
|
Tiger, Tiger, burning bright, in the middle of the fight Who dared to jump their station Sending tank destroyers at thee?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 14:55
|
|
|
Spacewolf posted:Random diversion: A big caveat is going to be the difference between combat weight and marching weight. Going into a fight they know is coming you tend to see a lot of extra crap dropped off. The current loaded march weight for basic training in the US is iirc something like 75lbs. [url=http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:C2P3JOBMBJkJ:dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc%3FAD%3DADA212050+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari] According to that document that I just googled it varies a lot from time to time, but somewhere in the 35-75kg range for total equipment that people are expected to haul around on the march is the basic window. One thing I'm noticing looking at the tables is that soldiers in areas with effective supply networks or in relatively static positions have significantly reduced loads - a US soldier in Vietnam or a French soldier in WW1 are looking at the ~35kg range, while a US soldier in North Africa is hauling about 50. There are also individual jobs that are going to be more heavily loaded down because they're carrying a big weapon and lots of equipment. Machinegunners are notorious for this, something noted in that article as well. Really, though, I think the most important thing to remember is that no one carries poo poo if they can avoid it. Going into combat? Your mess kit and bed roll get left behind. Being staged out of a fire base? You have a foot locker and don't move that poo poo nearly as much as a soldier on the march.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 15:15
|
|
|
You hear a lot about people intentionally misplacing gas masks and stuff like that in WWII. Does anyone come to regret that?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 15:20
|
|
|
Cyrano4747 posted:A big caveat is going to be the difference between combat weight and marching weight. Going into a fight they know is coming you tend to see a lot of extra crap dropped off. The current loaded march weight for basic training in the US is iirc something like 75lbs. Oooh, this is useful. As is a lot of the stuff other people are mentioning. Thanks guys!
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 15:51
|
|
|
Cyrano4747 posted:A big caveat is going to be the difference between combat weight and marching weight. Going into a fight they know is coming you tend to see a lot of extra crap dropped off. The current loaded march weight for basic training in the US is iirc something like 75lbs. Wasn't one of the issues in Black Hawk Down that the soldiers had left their night vision at home since they assumed it was going to be a quick snatch and grab?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 15:55
|
|
|
feedmegin posted:Well, he was married to a Catholic and some of his advisors were pretty much known to be secretly Catholic, and he was trying to rule without Parliament, and he was openly pushing as high-church a version of Anglicanism as he could, and the last time the country went Catholic under Mary things were not exactly great for leading Protestants. Given the time period, their concern is understandable. Mary's persecution of protestants was fairly lame, all things being equal. Anyway, my point was more about how continental stuff and propaganda influenced the whole ECW shebang.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 15:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 07:58 |
|
|
Cyrano4747 posted:a French soldier in WW1 is looking at the ~35kg range Just to get even more granular, even this is going to depend on exactly what year it is and what he's doing at the time. In 1914 he's likely to be closer to 20kg/40lbs in battle order because this is a war of movement and he's expected to be mobile; by the back end of 1915 battle order is moving up into the region of 60lb/30kg as bite and hold starts to catch on, and for that you need attacking waves to carry heavy entrenching gear for the "hold" part to work; 1916 is probably the apogee of people having difficulty getting over the top while hauling endless supplies of bombs and spare ammunition and spare parts for the machine gun and stakes and fresh barbed wire and shovels and the Colonel's tea/coffee urn; and by 1918 it goes right back the other way and everyone's stripping battle order down as much as possible so the men can follow up and consolidate breakthroughs. Here, have 14 pages of an MOD assessment (pdf!) on how much poo poo British soldiers (and others) have had to haul around with them since 1860. "PLCE" stands for Personal Load Carrying Equipment, the modern formal name for webbing, the assortment of pouches and packs that the said poo poo gets carried inside.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 16:04
|
|