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Germstore posted:I hate the chipped credit cards. Instead of pull out card, swipe, put back. It's pull out card, stick in card, wait, wait, wait for like a drat minute, put back. I assume there's a security benefit but from a usability perspective it's a huge step back. What backwards caveman country are you living in where cards with a chip take longer than four or five seconds?
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Mar 8, 2016 14:51
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Gorilla Salad posted:What backwards caveman country are you living in where cards with a chip take longer than four or five seconds? yeah but that's like 5x longer than swiping... those chip readers are kind of crap technology let's face it.
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Mar 8, 2016 14:53
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"Minute" is an exaggeration, but sometimes it can take like ten seconds and that's too loving long.
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Mar 8, 2016 14:53
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Gorilla Salad posted:What backwards caveman country are you living in where cards with a chip take longer than four or five seconds? In the US using a chipped card now takes 15-60 seconds. It's infuriating. It's faster if the store has internet rather than dialup, but it's still 5-10x slower than credit cards used to be. loving sucks.
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Mar 8, 2016 14:53
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u dont get it im doing this by myself with no tech
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Mar 8, 2016 14:53
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revmoo posted:In the US using a chipped card now takes 15-60 seconds. It's infuriating. It's faster if the store has internet rather than dialup, but it's still 5-10x slower than credit cards used to be. loving sucks. I wouldn't mind so much if I didn't have to still write my signature.
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Mar 8, 2016 15:15
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ArmZ posted:I wouldn't mind so much if I didn't have to still write my signature. I don't remember why, but I'm pretty sure the signature is less secure than the PIN used in other countries, negating a lot of the benefits of the chip system to boot!
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Mar 8, 2016 15:20
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Signatures suck because no-one gives a poo poo if the signature doesn't match. It puts the onus on the cashier who is most likely underpaid, overworked, sleep deprived and long past caring. Anyone can fake a signature on a card with the tiniest effort. A PIN is a whole other matter. thathonkey posted:yeah but that's like 5x longer than swiping... those chip readers are kind of crap technology let's face it. Wait are you saying that the act of insert card, select account, type in PIN and press enter then wait five seconds and remove card is somehow 5x longer than swipe card, etc? Plus, with the chip you now have a backup way to use the card - swiping. And when you have contactless, you have two backup ways to use your card - inserting and swiping. Given how many people I've seen with hosed cards (usually when I'm in a hurry and just want to pay and leave), having a couple of backup ways to pay makes everyone's life easier. revmoo posted:In the US using a chipped card now takes 15-60 seconds. It's infuriating. It's faster if the store has internet rather than dialup, but it's still 5-10x slower than credit cards used to be. loving sucks. Good lord, that's ridiculous. Can you at least have your cards auto-accept for small purchases under $40? In Australia you inster the card, press credit, it approves it less time than it takes the person behind the counter to say, "Okay, it'll just take a moment. And done!" and you leave. I remember when EFTPOS first arrived in the mid 80s, even then it didn't take a minute. Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Mar 8, 2016 |
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Mar 8, 2016 15:37
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Gorilla Salad posted:Wait are you saying that the act of insert card, select account, type in PIN and press enter then wait five seconds and remove card is somehow 5x longer than swipe card, etc? LMAO. Yeah how could that process possibly take longer than simply swiping? Also you're forgetting the fact that there is a challenge/response between the card and processor that adds time. Gorilla Salad posted:Plus, with the chip you now have a backup way to use the card - swiping. Not really, that's being phased out. Merchants are liable for fraud if they allow swiping, so expect that to be pretty much gone within the next year.
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Mar 8, 2016 15:40
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Okay, it's obvious now your country does things very differently. Are you saying that when you swipe you don't need to enter the account and PIN?
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Mar 8, 2016 15:42
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At my bank's ATMs, the machine now eats the card if it has a chip on it and won't give it back until the transaction is over. What purpose this serves is beyond me, but it is kind of annoying because the moment you have to wait while the machine loads up all your information is now spent staring at the thing instead of putting your card back in your wallet.
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Mar 8, 2016 15:46
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In the US you swipe, and then the machine spits out two receipts. One to sign and give back to the merchant, and one to keep. We only use PINs on ATMs (and I think certain debit transactions, but it's extremely uncommon)
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Mar 8, 2016 15:46
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revmoo posted:In the US you swipe, and then the machine spits out two receipts. One to sign and give back to the merchant, and one to keep. It's different depending on your bank. I have to enter in my pin number for nearly every transaction I make with my debit card. On the contrary, having to physically sign a receipt is something I basically never have to do except for at old school mom and pop shops.
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Mar 8, 2016 15:47
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CJacobs posted:It's different depending on your bank. I have to enter in my pin number for nearly every transaction I make with my debit card. On the contrary, having to physically sign a receipt is something I basically never have to do except for at old school mom and pop shops. Weird, I have never in my entire life entered a PIN on anything other than an ATM.
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Mar 8, 2016 15:48
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CJacobs posted:At my bank's ATMs, the machine now eats the card if it has a chip on it and won't give it back until the transaction is over. What purpose this serves is beyond me, but it is kind of annoying because the moment you have to wait while the machine loads up all your information is now spent staring at the thing instead of putting your card back in your wallet. This is for a technical reason. The machine cannot store the information contained in the card any more. For each transaction, there is a call and response to and from the chip.
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Mar 8, 2016 16:09
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Well, I can accept that then. At least it's not just doing it because someone somewhere thought it would be a better idea.
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Mar 8, 2016 16:11
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revmoo posted:Weird, I have never in my entire life entered a PIN on anything other than an ATM. That used to be how it was here maybe a decade ago or so. Now everything is Chip and Pin and now Contactless. There's some resistance because it put the onus on the card holder to be aware of fraud not the vendor but it's pretty much universal now. I can go weeks without ever having cash on hand because contactless is so much faster and more convenient.
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Mar 8, 2016 16:11
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Don't worry Amerigoons, in another 10-15 years you'll get contactless cards and then payment will be finally near-instant for you.
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Mar 8, 2016 16:13
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mobby_6kl posted:Don't worry Amerigoons, in another 10-15 years you'll get contactless cards and then payment will be finally near-instant for you. Indeed, I was in the Western Isles last year at a Harris Tweed Weaver's house and I could use contactless payment to pay for things. Chip and Pin and contactless payment solutions have revolutionised the way these small producers can do business.
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Mar 8, 2016 16:17
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Gorilla Salad posted:Wait are you saying that the act of insert card, select account, type in PIN and press enter then wait five seconds and remove card is somehow 5x longer than swipe card, etc? Each of these 10-15 second delays is also the exact amount of time you get distracted and decide to look up instead of staring at the screen.
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Mar 8, 2016 16:17
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Gorilla Salad posted:What backwards caveman country are you living in where cards with a chip take longer than four or five seconds? What backwards caveman country are you living in where cards with a chip take longer than one or two seconds?
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Mar 8, 2016 16:18
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All I want is a credit card I don't have to take out of my pocket somehow. Maybe use my body as a conduit, I don't know; I'm just an ideas guy someone else is gonna have to bang out the details.
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Mar 8, 2016 16:25
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Gorilla Salad posted:Good lord, that's ridiculous. Can you at least have your cards auto-accept for small purchases under $40? I never sign at, say, the gas station (though it does ask for my zip code for verification). I only sign at the grocery store if it's over $50. Other places, I sign every time. Phyzzle posted:This is for a technical reason. The machine cannot store the information contained in the card any more. For each transaction, there is a call and response to and from the chip. Weird. ATMs recently started spitting your card back out before even asking for your PIN. There was a spate of card thefts where the criminals would jam the card reader, you'd do your transactions, and then wouldn't get your card back (I don't remember if this kept you logged into the system or not). You'd have to abandon the machine and the criminal would come in and steal the card.
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Mar 8, 2016 16:56
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Contactless payment cards scare me. What is preventing somebody from building a portable scanning unit, walking into a crowd, and skim all the payment data?
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Mar 8, 2016 17:00
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Gorilla Salad posted:Okay, it's obvious now your country does things very differently. 1. cashier scans all my poo poo 2. I take out card 3. I swipe card 4. I scribble on the pad 5. I get receipt and leave If I'm using my card with a chip, replace 3 with "I insert card into reader and wait around for the loving carrier pigeon to complete its round-trip from mastercard world HQ or whatever the gently caress it's doing".
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Mar 8, 2016 17:01
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Onkel Hedwig posted:Contactless payment cards scare me. What is preventing somebody from building a portable scanning unit, walking into a crowd, and skim all the payment data? The transactions would go through your merchant account.
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Mar 8, 2016 17:04
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revmoo posted:The transactions would go through your merchant account. ...and the moment someone complains about being robbed, the person who owns the account is getting locked up for a while. ...and the transaction limit is low enough to make the whole thing not worth the risk.
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Mar 8, 2016 17:07
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If you're close enough to someone's contactless card to read it, you're close enough to just steal the card and make anonymous online transactions
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Mar 8, 2016 17:09
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Yawgmoth posted:What do you mean "enter the account"? Here's how it goes in the US, start to finish: Yeah, it seems the US is vastly different from Australia. EFTPOS never used signatures here, only credit cards did that. Here, when you insert your card, you select from savings, cheque or credit and then put your PIN in. If the amount is under $35 (up to the retailer I think what the limit is), you don't need to use a PIN, it'll go straight through. If you use contactless, you "tap and go" as they say in the obnoxious commercials they ran when the tech was first brought in. Although, if the amount's over $100 you will need to enter your PIN. No-one uses a signature because they're so unsecure.
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Mar 8, 2016 17:17
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Tsaedje posted:If you're close enough to someone's contactless card to read it, you're close enough to just steal the card and make anonymous online transactions Not with modern challenge/response cards.
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Mar 8, 2016 17:17
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revmoo posted:Not with modern challenge/response cards. That's the system where the retailer asks "who's got trouble?" and the transaction doesn't go through until you yell back "we've got trouble!", right?
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Mar 8, 2016 17:21
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Germstore posted:All I want is a credit card I don't have to take out of my pocket somehow. Maybe use my body as a conduit, I don't know; I'm just an ideas guy someone else is gonna have to bang out the details. have you heard about this revolutionary new currency called bitcoin my good man? you could get your bitcoin wallet address tattooed as a qr code on your forehead so all you have to do is stare at something, wait an hour or two for the transaction to be confirmed, and BAM you're done. Unless you forgot to put an exorbitant fee on top of the transaction to make sure it actually got processed, in which case it's your fault for not reading the wiki.
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Mar 8, 2016 17:47
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Gorilla Salad posted:No-one uses a signature because they're so unsecure. The US's brand new, built from the ground up, now is the time to get things right, system does!
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Mar 8, 2016 18:00
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therattle posted:There are a few everyday designs which absolutely infuriate me because they are poo poo. The classic example is the rod-operated bathroom sink plug mechanism: This is a good post. I would rate it a "5" if I knew how to do it.
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Mar 8, 2016 18:10
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revmoo posted:In the US using a chipped card now takes 15-60 seconds. It's infuriating. It's faster if the store has internet rather than dialup, but it's still 5-10x slower than credit cards used to be. loving sucks. The security is fairly simple in concept - the card number isn't actually transmitted (or even read from the chip). It's all token based, the same way Apple pay works. For example, if you use Apple pay, you aren't sending your card number anywhere, same with the chip. Your phone doesn't have to store the number. EMV style authentication also shouldn't pass through the POS system at all, so there is no chance of a merchant storing unsecured credit card information.
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Mar 8, 2016 18:21
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Vitalis Jackson posted:This is a good post. I would rate it a "5" if I knew how to do it. I don't want a vote from someone who can't figure out how to do it, but thanks. I'm glad you feel my pain.
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Mar 8, 2016 18:26
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mobby_6kl posted:Don't worry Amerigoons, in another 10-15 years you'll get contactless cards and then payment will be finally near-instant for you. Lol nope, the bottleneck is in the connection to the credit company servers and since Comcast and Time Warner outright own like half of congress that's only going to get worse.
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Mar 8, 2016 18:28
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Aramoro posted:That used to be how it was here maybe a decade ago or so. Now everything is Chip and Pin and now Contactless. There's some resistance because it put the onus on the card holder to be aware of fraud not the vendor but it's pretty much universal now. I can go weeks without ever having cash on hand because contactless is so much faster and more convenient. Oh i get it so ultimately it's a scam to gently caress over the card holder. makes sense
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Mar 8, 2016 18:40
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mobby_6kl posted:Don't worry Amerigoons, in another 10-15 years you'll get contactless cards and then payment will be finally near-instant for you. They had those for a while but literally nobody liked them so they actually downgraded back to non-RF cards and instead now we get these retarded chip things
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Mar 8, 2016 18:42
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The real bad design is that the readers in the us right now stick the card out so anyone can read the last 12 digits or so pretty easily while it's authorizing.
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Mar 8, 2016 18:45
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