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He seems a little alarmist about all this, but I guess of all people he has an axe to grind with our new computer overlords. I think the Chicken Littles of the Go and Chess worlds are a bit odd. It's not like they're going to start letting computers into international tournaments.
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Mar 10, 2016 03:25
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o.m. 94 posted:i wonder if it's just because go AI research was done by men in basements until google actually decided to throw some money at it? Basically true, but also important were the recent advances in methods and GPU hardware for training neural networks. Any earlier than about 4-5 years ago, nobody could have actually implemented the ideas behind AlphaGo successfully, even if they had seen the paper write-up (imho)
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Mar 10, 2016 04:36
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Is there anywhere on the forums to discuss the live alphago games or is this it?
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Mar 10, 2016 04:59
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Booyah- posted:Is there anywhere on the forums to discuss the live alphago games or is this it? This is p much where to go. Ha ha. Go. Also it's way too late on the east coast, friggen Korea.
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Mar 10, 2016 04:59
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Overwined posted:He seems a little alarmist about all this, but I guess of all people he has an axe to grind with our new computer overlords. I think the Chicken Littles of the Go and Chess worlds are a bit odd. It's not like they're going to start letting computers into international tournaments. Yes but you're going to have eventually everyone with just a phone in their pocket access to strength that's higher than any human could hope to reasonably achieve. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
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Mar 10, 2016 05:36
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I spaced out for a minute; what did Alphago do that was so surprising? Apparantly prompting Lee Sedol to need to take a short break?
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Mar 10, 2016 05:53
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most recent move at O10
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Mar 10, 2016 05:55
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5th line shoulder hit i guess
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Mar 10, 2016 05:55
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In my expert opinion, Lee Sedol should flip the board soon because AlphaGo has no hands to pick up the stones.
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Mar 10, 2016 06:07
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Rip game #2 for sedol
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Mar 10, 2016 09:28
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Oh man, even the Korean commentators don't know where it all went wrong, they thought Lee had a good midgame going.
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Mar 10, 2016 09:31
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Does he have any chance of pulling this back? The first game was much closer than this one...
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Mar 10, 2016 11:48
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Lee said after the game that there was no point at which he felt like he was leading. One of AlphaGo's developers said that AlphaGo was confident of a win from early midgame.
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Mar 10, 2016 14:42
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Chas McGill posted:The first game was much closer than this one... That's just, like, your opinion, man. AlphaGo may have made moves that seemed like mistakes to us, but maybe that's just it maximizing its winrate instead of trying to play well. I think this'll be 5-0. Today's game proved that its normal play is at a very high level. To beat it you'd need to find a specific weakness but that's probably beyond mere mortals by now. uXs fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Mar 10, 2016 |
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Mar 10, 2016 15:30
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I honestly agree, I think 5-0 is likely. Much much better games than the other match, but man.
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Mar 10, 2016 15:36
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Did anyone ask Lee Sedol about the o15 move that made him stand up from the table? Of course I have no idea what the implications of the move were, but they seemed to disturb Lee and indeed the game started to collapse from there.
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Mar 10, 2016 15:58
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IIRC, Michael Redmond said it was unexpected, unusual, [but upon reflection] a very beautiful move. Maybe Lee had invested a lot into the assumption that AlphaGo would have made a more conventional move. - Ok, so maybe AlphaGo is better than Lee Sedol. But Ke Jie is better than Lee Sedol, too, right? Has Ke Jie said anything about these games?
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Mar 10, 2016 16:01
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Michael Redmond's impatience with his co-commentator has grown so gradually over the course of 9 hours. He seems like a very polite person. Stop interrupting the strong professional mid-sentence with your inane blather, dude.
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Mar 10, 2016 16:18
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dirby posted:Ok, so maybe AlphaGo is better than Lee Sedol. But Ke Jie is better than Lee Sedol, too, right? Has Ke Jie said anything about these games? AlphaGo can't beat me, says Chinese Go grandmaster Ke Jie
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Mar 10, 2016 16:29
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http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_international/734275.html posted:“I had just assumed that AlphaGo would have some trouble at the beginning, but its ability to open up the game was astonishing. And then I thought we were both playing a challenging game of Go when the program blew me away by coming up with these completely impossible moves - that also appeared to be winning moves,” Lee recalled.
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Mar 10, 2016 16:32
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this is so awesome. i know some people are feeling really down about it, but i feel like go is so deep that we'll never get to the bottom of it, and having this ai explore it for us is like using a telescope to see farther into the galaxy or something. im sure it will discover things i'll never understand but thats what the pros are there for, to explain it to us kyus lol
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Mar 10, 2016 18:23
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LouDog004 posted:Michael Redmond's impatience with his co-commentator has grown so gradually over the course of 9 hours. He seems like a very polite person. Stop interrupting the strong professional mid-sentence with your inane blather, dude. That guy is actively interfering with my enjoyment of the match. Is there any alternative English coverage?
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Mar 10, 2016 19:02
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Yeah I wish they'd gotten another English speaking professional to comment with Redmond
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Mar 10, 2016 19:14
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Some twitter posts from Japan are quite interesting: "...AlphaGo didn't have solid openings, but from midgame to endgame, it seems very strong. I'm beginning to wonder whether fuseki is important or not." - Takanashi Seiken "Seems just like Mr. Satan vs. Cell, no?" - Okuma Yuto
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Mar 10, 2016 19:16
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I don't like the guy alongside Redmond, either. Though I am enjoying the frequent shots Redmond makes across his bow. He's a 3d himself, but Redmond will constantly chide him for lovely reading ability or what have you. In the first match, Redmond wished that AlphaGo would teach humans new things and felt that didn't happen. I think we got that at least twice in game 2 with the shoulder hit and the later invasion circa move 102.
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Mar 10, 2016 19:26
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http://www.clickhole.com/clickventure/youre-computer-can-you-pass-turing-test-4009
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Mar 10, 2016 19:29
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King Pawn posted:That guy is actively interfering with my enjoyment of the match. Is there any alternative English coverage? The official AGA YouTube channel has the coverage you want.
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Mar 10, 2016 19:41
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every 5 min: "I would like to welcome those of you just tuning in, blah blah blah blah blah" For a youtube stream. Please shoot him into the sun.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:29
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I have to say, this match has really sparked my intellect. I have been thinking about Go all day.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:57
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Yeah, my interest in Go has been rekindled as well. Ive been playing like six or seven games a day lately
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Mar 10, 2016 21:15
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Rated PG-34 posted:every 5 min: "I would like to welcome those of you just tuning in, blah blah blah blah blah" Yes probably told to say that stuff. He has an ear piece and people keep telling him to do stuff. Its be nice to have a pro anchor who knows when to ignore that stuff but I doubt you have a bunch of people clamoring to be AGA editors either.
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Mar 10, 2016 21:15
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His name is Chris Garlock and why he was chosen, I have no idea. It's not hard to imagine that broadcast-eligible personalities would not be easy to find among the professional Go ranks, but it's so obvious that for both Garlock and the people putting on this stream, that no forethought has gone into its presentation. I definitely won't be tuning away, though. Michael Redmond is very dry and not good enough to MC this thing, but his explanations and play-throughs of variations are clear, concise, and helpful even to a slovenly amateur like myself.
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Mar 10, 2016 21:21
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Isn't Redmond there just because he's the highest ranked native English speaker or something? Who else could they choose from?
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Mar 10, 2016 21:33
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Chas McGill posted:Isn't Redmond there just because he's the highest ranked native English speaker or something? Who else could they choose from? That is probably why they chose him, but I think he's doing a good enough job for his role of being the person explaining things. The only really awkward parts I remember are when he is counting territory. It's the other guy who is awful
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Mar 10, 2016 21:40
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i love how he's mentioned that he's 3d a few time yet he's going 'ohhh woowwww thats so coool!' when redmond is explaining nets and snapbacks. loll
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Mar 10, 2016 22:01
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totino boy posted:i love how he's mentioned that he's 3d a few time yet he's going 'ohhh woowwww thats so coool!' when redmond is explaining nets and snapbacks. loll I wonder how much of that is him overcompensating on beginner accessibility and how much of it is him being terrible.
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Mar 10, 2016 22:04
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totino boy posted:i love how he's mentioned that he's 3d a few time yet he's going 'ohhh woowwww thats so coool!' when redmond is explaining nets and snapbacks. loll lmao
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Mar 10, 2016 22:06
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Yeah I'm curious how much of it is a show and how much is he's reeeeeally not 3d. I had a professor in college who was dry like redmond. Best prof I ever had, his soft monotone drone made you fall asleep and he gave the most interesting lectures on operating systems.
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Mar 10, 2016 22:24
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i liked redmonds commentary a lot. myungwan and andrew tend to wander off into variations for so long and just be in their own world not even in relation to the game while moves are going on in the background. maybe a matter of taste, but i like that redmond stuck pretty much to what was actually going on in the game.
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Mar 10, 2016 22:35
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I watched myungwan and jackson instead of Redmond. How was their stream?
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Mar 11, 2016 00:17
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