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I said come in! posted:It needs to be April already so I can watch this movie every single day. God help you.
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Mar 10, 2016 16:27
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Sir Kodiak posted:I think it misunderstands the nature of reminiscing to use terms of endearment as an example, but I do apologize for not clarifying that that was my point of disagreement at the start, so I wasn't exactly doing the best job communicating myself. I could have been clearer about that as well, since we mostly agree except for that one point on it.
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Mar 10, 2016 16:33
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Sir Kodiak posted:Presumably Snoke, and ideally we'd get a shot of Kylo Ren tickling his chin when he turns out to be tiny. HAN That's what Snoke wants you to believe, but it's not true. My son is alive. KYLO REN The Supreme Leader? He's always my lil' champ to me.
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Mar 10, 2016 16:41
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I said come in! posted:It needs to be April already so I can watch this movie every single day. You get to watch it for about a week but then DS3 comes out.
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Mar 10, 2016 16:42
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It's not a single line of dialogue ya goofs. It's a line of dialogue in the context of a movie based to a large degree on samurai movies and Arthurian myth. Where the characters are in a Resistance opposed to unified government and the modern nation-state, and who are constantly talking about a precapitalist age of knights and lords. And everything centers around military service and heredity. Rey and Blobfish are(were?) in a pretty straightforward lord/serf arrangement that is, note, only really criticized on the basis that Rey 'doesn't belong here'. It's an undisguised variation on the old story where a child of noble birth is hidden away among the lower classes (e.g. Snow White). And so-on.
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Mar 10, 2016 17:05
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McDowell posted:The bigger fish scene is about Quigon's loyalty to an all-consuming leviathan. The bigger fish scene is about the nature of exploitation. The main factions in the movie form a food chain: The Naboo are above the Gungans, the Trade Federation are above the Naboo, and the Sith are above the Trade Federation.
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Mar 10, 2016 17:36
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RBA Starblade posted:I'm envious of you somehow going your entire life without someone cooing and calling their baby their little princess. Or an old lady saying it regarding their grown child. It's important to note that the old man here is not Leia's father/relation, but is the head of a group of Force Worshippers. So in that context Leia is pretty drat close to the Virgin Mary.
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Mar 10, 2016 17:42
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computer parts posted:It's important to note that the old man here is not Leia's father/relation, but is the head of a group of Force Worshippers. So in that context Leia is pretty drat close to the Virgin Mary. It also doesn't matter what feudalism was "really like", which, no poo poo, varied over time and space and does not encompass all pre-capitalist social relations in an academic sense. What matters is the fantasy of an idealized Golden Age of "proper" social relations and the simple, honorable archetypes of the Lady, the Knight, the Servant, etc. They're not trying to recreate 13th century France, they just "think that once you stop hearing 'sir' and 'ma'am', the rest is soon to follow."
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Mar 10, 2016 18:57
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RBA Starblade posted:Obviously, but at the same time he's not calling for a revolution to install her as Queen of the Galaxy. Big assumption for a character we barely met. I already called it that Episode 9 ends with Rey being elected Galactic Queen
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Mar 10, 2016 19:03
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I don't know if feudalism is the right word for it, but I do think that based on the lessons of the last 60 years or so of Star Wars history, Leia wanting to bring in a powerful wizard to solve the galaxy's problems does seem kind of retrograde.
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Mar 10, 2016 19:13
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McDowell posted:Big assumption for a character we barely met. No, Episode IX ends with the Republic being restored, for realsies this time, we swear. Then Episode X blows it up again.
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Mar 10, 2016 19:18
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My suspicion is that the Republic is going to turn out to be the actual big bad, and that while Ren and New Order's methods are inexcusable, they do have a legitimate grievance. That's the best explanation I can think of for why we have a distinction between the Resistance and the Republic, and why we learn so little about the Republic in TFA.
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Mar 10, 2016 19:25
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Toilet Mouth posted:My suspicion is going to be that the Republic is going to turn out to be the actual evil faction here, and that while Ren and New Order's methods are inexcusable, they do have a legitimate grievance. That's the best explanation I can think of for why we have a distinction between the Resistance and the Republic, and why we learn so little about the Republic in TFA. My suspicion is that they wanted the movie to be Rebels vs. Empire again because that's what the fans said they liked, and that they left out the political scenes because the fans said they didn't like those. Yeah, I know it's a long-shot, but anything's possible, right?
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Mar 10, 2016 19:35
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Toilet Mouth posted:My suspicion is that the Republic is going to turn out to be the actual big bad, and that while Ren and New Order's methods are inexcusable, they do have a legitimate grievance. That's the best explanation I can think of for why we have a distinction between the Resistance and the Republic, and why we learn so little about the Republic in TFA. Based on what we know from TFA, the First Order's grievance is basically "The Republic won't face us in a fair fight." Now, we still have a few movies to characterize them, but if they really are supposed to be "The Empire" of the new series, they're probably not going to have very complex motivations.
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Mar 10, 2016 19:40
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Sir Kodiak posted:Nobody in conversation is like, "Joshua? He's always my lil' champ to me." that's only because the majority of CineD might as well be sterile
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Mar 10, 2016 19:43
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Cnut the Great posted:No, Episode IX ends with the Republic being restored, for realsies this time, we swear. Nah I think X will skip to 100+ years after the Reign of Queen Rey where some new crisis will spark a star war.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:11
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computer parts posted:Based on what we know from TFA, the First Order's grievance is basically "The Republic won't face us in a fair fight." Now, we still have a few movies to characterize them, but if they really are supposed to be "The Empire" of the new series, they're probably not going to have very complex motivations. You're probably right, but it's going to be interesting to see how they can set them up as a legitimate threat, because they basically come across as space North Korea in TFA. Good luck in a fair fight with the Republic when they can't even handle a tiny, geriatric militia.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:16
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Toilet Mouth posted:You're probably right, but it's going to be interesting to see how they can set them up as a legitimate threat, Well, they did blow up some number of planets, including the capitol of the government.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:25
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I'm hoping in Episode 8 we find out the Resistance makes Poe Damerons in a factory just like Jango Fett.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:35
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McDowell posted:I'm hoping in Episode 8 we find out the Resistance makes Poe Damerons in a factory just like Jango Fett. Episode 9 we find out that you can reach Earth by punching in "All Along the Watchtower" to the hyperdrive computers.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:40
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Sir Kodiak posted:Nobody in conversation is like, "Joshua? He's always my lil' champ to me." Yes.
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Mar 10, 2016 21:23
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McDowell posted:Big assumption for a character we barely met. I will publicly admit I was wrong when his ghost comes back in Episode 9 and clarifies that was totally what he meant. quote:Episode 9 we find out that you can reach Earth by punching in "All Along the Watchtower" to the hyperdrive computers. 
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Mar 11, 2016 01:11
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Holy hell can this thread seem willfully obtuse sometimes. Yup, the guy who runs a literal church to the force is totally 100% exclusively expressing mentorly affection by calling the force-sensitive royalty. That is literally the extent of his sentiment, no need to read any further in here guys, that's a solid wrap  And if you still don't get it (or are caught up on dumb historicity quibbles in the Star Wars thread) just do a mental find-and-replace for 'force' with 'divine right of kings.' You'll start to hear Hobbes pretty dang quick in all the binds-living-things, harmony-of-the-universe, bring-us-balance stuff.
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Mar 11, 2016 01:24
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The sequel trilogy is about characters coming to terms with their homosexuality, the other stuff is just a backdrop to that. You all are really reading into the wrong things.
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Mar 11, 2016 01:31
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This idea that Leia is a diplomat and 'Princess' is just her nickname is the actually most entertaining fan-theory to come out of this thread. It turns out Snoke's 'Supreme Leader' title is actually his rank in HALO.
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Mar 11, 2016 01:36
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Hello straw man.
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Mar 11, 2016 02:17
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:This idea that Leia is a diplomat and 'Princess' is just her nickname is the actually most entertaining fan-theory to come out of this thread. I don't think anyone is saying she was not royalty. A person can be a royal without being an absolute monarch ya know. As a matter of fact most modern monarchs are of the constitutional variety.
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Mar 11, 2016 02:21
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Her official title and name according to LucasFilms is Princess Leia.
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Mar 11, 2016 02:33
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So there's this movie, about a princess that loses her land, but she still commands some warriors, like a general? The Hidden Fortress is pretty weird, I suppose they called it feudal Japan because they were fighting all the time 
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Mar 11, 2016 02:35
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ZoCrowes posted:I don't think anyone is saying she was not royalty. A person can be a royal without being an absolute monarch ya know. As a matter of fact most modern monarchs are of the constitutional variety. Right - 'royal' can be a lot of things, like a nickname or a type of baseball player from Kansas. The burden's on you to use textual evidence to show that it means specifically a constitutional monarch in this context. Otherwise it's about as random as saying Leia used her force powers to gaze across time and experience the 2015 World Series.
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Mar 11, 2016 02:42
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I read "land" in that sentence as "hand" and was like "wait I know Mad Max 2 borrows from Yojimbo but holy poo poo oh wait."
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Mar 11, 2016 02:44
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What in God's holy name are you people blabbering about?!! I mean, what even IS this?!?
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Mar 11, 2016 04:25
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THIS. IS. STAR WARS!!!
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Mar 11, 2016 04:30
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:This idea that Leia is a diplomat and 'Princess' is just her nickname is the actually most entertaining fan-theory to come out of this thread. I forgot that you write fanfiction about threads too.
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Mar 11, 2016 04:34
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There's my cue.  http://abbuneki.tumblr.com/post/137849323128/%E3%83%BE-%EF%BE%89
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Mar 11, 2016 04:38
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I said come in! posted:Her official title and name according to LucasFilms is Princess Leia. Princess is just her first name. That's how affectionate Bail Organa is, he changed her first name to Princess.
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Mar 11, 2016 05:02
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:This idea that Leia is a diplomat and 'Princess' is just her nickname is the actually most entertaining fan-theory to come out of this thread. Actually my favourite fan theory is that Chewie is actually a really hairy human edit: he makes the gurgle noises because they're fun edit 2: it's actually a long con to grift han solo out of all he holds dear. han solo actually thinks ben was his son. edit 3: i forgot to provide the evidence for this theory. i know some of the people in this thread aren't keeping up to date with their 60s-era philosophy so i'll help you guys out a bit. actually, the most evidence comes from zizek's "the pervert's guide to ideology" which Friendly Factory fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Mar 11, 2016 |
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Mar 11, 2016 06:30
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The burden's on you to use textual evidence to show that it means specifically a constitutional monarch in this context. Leia has a history of republicanism and is actively leading a resistance to an authoritarian regime which is presumably occupying republican worlds and intends to attack the republic, while at the same time insisting people call her General. Two old people (Max von Sydow and C3PO) call her princess, and one of those times was an accident. 3PO does it again later, too, but not respectfully. C3PO associates princesses with negative stereotypes. The rest of the resistance calls her General. Could explain why your analysis doesn't also apply to A New Hope? Maybe that would help. Friendly Factory posted:edit 3: i forgot to provide the evidence for this theory. i know some of the people in this thread aren't keeping up to date with their 60s-era philosophy so i'll help you guys out a bit. actually, the most evidence comes from zizek's "the pervert's guide to ideology" which quote:The political connotations of the Star Wars universe are multiple and inconsistent, and that is the key to the "mythic" power of this universe: free world versus the Evil Empire; the retreat of the Nation-States which can be given a Buchanan-Le Pen Rightist connotation; the symptomatic contradiction of persons of noble status (Princess, members of the elite Jedi Order) defending the "democratic" republic against the Evil Empire; finally, the correct key insight into how "we are the bad guys" (the bad Empire, the enemy out there - in today's "war on terror," the problem is what this war will turn the USA into). That is to say: a political myth proper is not so much a narrative with some determinate political meaning but, rather, an empty container of a multitude of inconsistent, even mutually exclusive, meanings - it is wrong to ask "But what does this political myth really mean?", since its "meaning" is precisely to serve as the container for a multitude of meanings.
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Mar 11, 2016 07:25
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Leia is the leader of the Resistance, but her followers do not necessarily share her ideals, aside from agreeing on the necessity of opposing the First Order by force. Many of them are loyal less to her cause and more to her. Trying to enlist hermit wizards to help fight desperate wars is a page right out of the Bail Organa playbook. Bail was kindly disposed toward the Jedi and helped them regroup and escape the purge. Although a senator, he came from a planet where they have queens. One of his best friends was a queen once. He even married a queen, which I suppose would make him a prince consort. Her families, both adoptive and biological, seem to be perpetually antagonized by the inadequacy of democracy to achieve virtuous ends. It's remarkable how few people make reference to Leia's hereditary rank out of respect. Most of the time it's sarcastic, as with Vader or Han. Sometimes it's C-3PO, who (apparently inadvertently) subverts his being programmed for etiquette and protocol by committing one faux pas after another. The one constant is that the bigger a deal people make about her title, the more indifferent or even hostile they are to her political aims. Within the Resistance, there are those who call her General and those who call her Princess. It's an indication that their motives are impure. Like Maz (who is herself quite queenly - I maintain that her truck stop is more castle than temple), the royalists (if I may so call them) regard the First Order as principally a continuation of the Empire, which means they are in agreement with the First Order. It's yet another one of the film's conspicuous ambiguities, designed to be open-ended so that it can be resolved in any direction in response to observations of audience impressions. That's the cost of such a storytelling strategy, but I think it might pay off for them; I want to see what they gain from it artistically before I condemn it altogether.
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Mar 11, 2016 07:58
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But this is also Star Wars, where even titles that are equivocal to real life titles have arbitrary rules that wouldn't be applicable in a proper sociopolitical analysis. Lucas himself created a queen that seemed to be exactly like an actual queen, only to reveal later on that she was democratically-elected and served limited terms.
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Mar 11, 2016 08:35
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