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Ever since Inspiring Cry got good it's really hard to justify bringing a Jester, which sucks because his character art is so good.Nakar posted:Giving up a character slot for a couple trinket slots doesn't strike me as a good trade at all. You could also get the same benefit from a Man-at-Arms, minus the +SPD from the Jester's buff, plus better camp skill buffs and a stun and a guard and better damage and more HP. Yeah their bleed attacks REALLY need a buff. A maxed-out Jester's Slice Off attack (the strong one!) will be dealing 5-9 damage against 0 PROT enemies in a champion level dungeon, and that level of damage cuts no kind of mustard at all.
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Mar 12, 2016 05:34
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Node posted::salute: That's...special. Does any old character get that if they're chosen? I still haven't gotten around to doing the last mission.
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Mar 12, 2016 05:46
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Still trying to figure out how I want my antiquarian in a group. I typically want a healer and three damage dealers, either markers and picking monsters apart, or one damage overtime with two bruisers. I like this update, I was actually wondering before this update if an ancestral item exchanger was a good idea, and It looks like it was already suggested and implemented.
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Mar 12, 2016 05:50
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Papal Infallibility posted:That's...special. Does any old character get that if they're chosen? I still haven't gotten around to doing the last mission. Yeah. Looks like they also get special headstones if they bite it elsewhere in the Darkest Dungeon. Really... unfortunate ones.
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Mar 12, 2016 06:43
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First run after update, GR gets critted 3 times in a row and dies. I end up getting a ton of portraits, 1x ancestral (a second pistol) and 1x very rare (a second crescendo box) and a ton of gold. Retreat and I have none of them... It's like my inventory was empty when I returned except for the food and stuff I took in when I started. WTF.
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Mar 12, 2016 19:52
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Just bought this game and it's kicking my rear end! I really hate the stress system, but I'm learning how to deal with it.
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Mar 12, 2016 20:34
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Vincent posted:Just bought this game and it's kicking my rear end! I really hate the stress system, but I'm learning how to deal with it. Ruins is a relatively high-stress area, mostly because nothing there really has special attacks on Apprentice. I was shocked how much less stress I had to deal with once I started doing Weald/Warrens.
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Mar 12, 2016 21:17
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It stops being a huge deal when you expand your roster too
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Mar 12, 2016 21:20
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The crusader is by far the least exciting class; they're always just a front row filler slot for me but man they just work. They'll never hit as hard as a grave robber or take as much abuse as a MaA but they'll hit things hard, get hit back, and make it out in one piece (usually)
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Mar 12, 2016 21:52
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Man, the DD2 Double Templar fight is no joke. At least my casualties kinda deserved it (Bounty Hunter failed an uppercut to knock the Impaler out of Stinger Stab range, then ate a Stinger Stab crit, Occultist's first three heals in the fight were for 2, 0, 2). Now the question is whether to grind up a Plague Doctor for DD3 since my only level 6 one has Never Again from the first one or whether to roll with a different method of controlling the white cell stalk.Scrub-Niggurath posted:The crusader is by far the least exciting class; they're always just a front row filler slot for me but man they just work. They'll never hit as hard as a grave robber or take as much abuse as a MaA but they'll hit things hard, get hit back, and make it out in one piece (usually) Unless I can abuse the bonus Smite damage to unholy stuff in the Ruins or doing the Crew fight, I've tended toward slotting in Hellions or Lepers in parties where I'd usually have a Crusader. Hellions are so fun, they might actually have displaced Plague Doctor as my favorite class.
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Mar 13, 2016 18:04
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I found DD3 controllable with just a BH for stuns. Also had an Arbalest so I could often just shoot the stalk. Really, it isn't much of a lockdown-centric run. The enemies are not bleed and stress motherfuckers like the first two and tend to have low health, and then the cysts have high health. So lots of damage and just keep killing the stalks.
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Mar 13, 2016 18:19
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Nakar posted:I found DD3 controllable with just a BH for stuns. Also had an Arbalest so I could often just shoot the stalk. Thanks, I went heavy DPS with Grave Robber/Occultist/Abomination/Hellion, during both Cyst battles each stalk only got one move off. Abyssal Artillery with Eldritch Killing Incense is pretty great.
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Mar 13, 2016 19:38
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I brought an Abomination with +Virtue items to DD2 as my non-torch guy figuring I'd take a chance on a virtuous Abom and see how it shook out. He never got over 40 Stress or so and ripped everything to shreds with no trinket boosts (since all he had were +Virtue ones). They're pretty good in the endgame.
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Mar 13, 2016 19:41
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So, I finished the game and made a NG+ file and uh, that first Curio on the tutorial map  Are there any other changes?
Azran fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 03:09
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Azran posted:So, I finished the game and made a NG+ file and uh, that first Curio on the tutorial map Aside from gameplay tweaks I'm pretty sure that curio is literally the only difference. Its an endless cycle after all!
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Mar 14, 2016 03:17
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I fought the final boss with a Musketeer, Houndmaster, Hellion and lvl5 Grave Robber. First victim of the final stage was the Musketeer, and I was planning to let the Hellion and the Grave Robber finish the job but I ended up killing the GR when I saw the Houndmaster says if you hover over him. 
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Mar 14, 2016 03:20
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Nakar posted:I brought an Abomination with +Virtue items to DD2 as my non-torch guy figuring I'd take a chance on a virtuous Abom and see how it shook out. I got an Abomination up to level 6, but I never ended up finding room for him in a Darkest Dungeon party because the rest of my lineup included two Crusaders, a Leper and three Vestals. Whoops.
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Mar 14, 2016 03:46
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I am a much happier man ever since I erased the Abomination party restrictions from the game 
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Mar 14, 2016 04:13
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The Abomination's restrictions aren't even that bad.
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Mar 14, 2016 04:58
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They are if you like those classes
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Mar 14, 2016 05:04
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Not being able to use one of the two classes that can provide enough healing for a party on their own is pretty huge, especially early game when you might not get an Occultist for a while.
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Mar 14, 2016 07:29
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good thing youll kill anything before it can hurt you with an abom
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Mar 14, 2016 07:32
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The Abomination self-heal is actually pretty strong, I was running a pair of them with a Hellion and a Grave Robber and I massively overprovisioned on food because I thought noheals was gonna be a big issue. Nope, as it turns out.
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Mar 14, 2016 11:11
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2 abominations, a hellion, and a houndmaster is a good amount of self heal. The only real weak link is the hellion, and her self heal covers blight/bleed and bringing extra food can usually make up the difference. Also, that team kills stuff fast.
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Mar 14, 2016 11:44
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I'm loving this game, but jesus christ certain restrictions and classes are infuriating. Certain abilities seem deliberately gimped, like Holy Lance not even targeting size 2 monsters if they are by themselves in the front. I also don't understand the love for leper, he's a garbage character that I guess does good damage to the front rows with 0 utility. This is a game where you almost always want to target the back row first, and he can't even stun, and god help you if he gets shuffled in the back. Man at Arms, Hellion, and Crusader all seem to have a niche as tanks, can't figure why I would ever want to use a leper other than to make things more difficult for myself. I'm glad they at least buffed the highwayman, he's still not as good as the graverobber, but he's no longer just a worse version. Jester is also bad and dumb, Houndmaster is good and smart.
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Mar 14, 2016 14:13
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a Leper has gotten a Crit that saved my rear end and won a boss battle at the last possible moment at least 5 times in this game, keep hatin' haters. He's a tank that I just use to soak up damage, clear corpses, and sometimes debuff enemy damage with Intimidate. I just put accuracy buffs on him now since he was buffed in damage. The trick with Lepers is taking someone like a G-Robber, Houndman, or Arbalest too since Leper's can't do poo poo past the first 2 ranks. I like using Highwayman just as much as G-Robber. One of them has better accuracy and dodge and Blight but less HP, the other has better damage buffs and bleeds and a larger HP pool. Maybe it's just me but doing tracking shot and then pistol poo poo works pretty well for me. Also starting a battle with one in front, using Point Blank right off the bat, then using his duelist stuff to keep up the pace.
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Mar 14, 2016 14:34
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AoE and back row stuns is the trick with a Leper. Hew hits two enemies like other heroes hit one, so he makes up for the poor direct damage of something like a Plague Doctor, and she controls the stress mobs and clears corpses so the Leper one-shots them the next turn. If a front row damager hits him he doesn't need a healer to babysit him because he has a mountain of HP and a self-heal. He has noticeable position and utility weaknesses because he is the best at doing damage and taking it. Only the Abomination is comparable in both, and gets more utility due to having a riskier gimmick and class restrictions.
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Mar 14, 2016 15:32
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Nakar posted:AoE and back row stuns is the trick with a Leper. Hew hits two enemies like other heroes hit one, so he makes up for the poor direct damage of something like a Plague Doctor, and she controls the stress mobs and clears corpses so the Leper one-shots them the next turn. If a front row damager hits him he doesn't need a healer to babysit him because he has a mountain of HP and a self-heal. Plague Doctors are great partners for Lepers. You can go with something like Occultist/Doc/Hellion/Leper for some really cool and strong Leper play, too. Occultist is great for pulling people into Chop territory, plus his non-team heal isn't such a big deal when you can use his heal instead on the others; this is even better since Leper is a tank with a self heal and Hellion can debuff any bleeds with Adrenal Rush. And, if you need more backrow stress, switch Hellion places with Leper for Iron Swan. You could even just use Breakthrough to move up and finish off anyone the Doctor has softened up with Blight. Of course you could also just use Houndmaster for everything, too. Is there really any downside to Houndmaster other than slightly average HP and defense, and not usually hitting for more than like 8 damage? I suppose ranks of totally Bleed-immune enemies, but that might be it. DLC Inc fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 16:09
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Their damage is not good at all without a mark and a biscuit. They are kind of fragile if not stacking Dodge and spamming Guard Dog. Cry Havoc is a lot less consistent than the Jester and Crusader stress heals. The damage is the big issue. Houndmasters are way worse at damage than people think and overreliance on them leads to situations where people create Stun-dependent semi-stall teams because they take damage/stress and have to burn it off with healing. While that's a viable way to play, smash-and-grab teams with good average DPT don't take that damage/stress and don't need multiple Stun trinkets because they're not chain-stunning anything (because it's dead). EDIT: To use your example (sorta), the Plague Doctor/Occultist/Leper/Hellion arrangement isn't improved by a Houndmaster. He doesn't stun as well as the PD and he doesn't allow for the same damage concentration you get by having an Occultist there. For example, depending on the enemy, you can have the PD stun the back and the Hellion/Occultist kill one tough frontliner while the Leper Chops the other, or you can have the Leper Hew and possibly kill one for the Hellion to finish off, or you can Abyssal Artillery the back and have the Hellion finish something off with Iron Swan/If It Bleeds while the Leper Hews the front to set them up to be finished off, or she can use Breakthrough to finish things that got Hewed off depending on how much HP Hew leaves them with. If you need a second turn mass stun, Yawp can be slotted, or you can slot Adrenaline Rush and now half the party can burn off DoTs and the Occultist isn't needing to heal all the time. Lots of approaches here. All a HM really adds that this party can't do is a guard and stress healing, but he lowers the party's damage output to the point it might need it. He also helps Scouting which admittedly is something a Leper likes, but there are plenty of ways to avoid being surprised. Nakar fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 16:23
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He makes all variants of the Flesh trivial, and that justifies his existence.
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Mar 14, 2016 17:24
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A.o.D. posted:He makes all variants of the Flesh trivial, and that justifies his existence. And also the Hag and the Brigand Cannon.
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Mar 14, 2016 17:27
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Houndmaster absolutely wrecks beasts, so that also adds to his strengths in the Warrens where every pig enemy is considered a beast. He also works very well in the darkest dungeon templar fights because he can overclock his damage severely with marks, biscuits and the templars' beast classification. His stun is also one of the best stuns in the game, with his cudgel weight trinket and a stun amulet he can get over 200% stun chance for multiple turn lockdowns. He can also do a lot of good stuff in any rank in the party so he is fairly good in shuffle parties or when surprised. He is perfect for any marking based party. How Rude fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 17:36
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Nakar posted:Their damage is not good at all without a mark and a biscuit. They are kind of fragile if not stacking Dodge and spamming Guard Dog. Cry Havoc is a lot less consistent than the Jester and Crusader stress heals. Yeah I think this is what I had in mind in terms of damage sometimes needing to be better, good point on needing the marks/doggie treats. I forget sometimes how loving good Yawp is for immediately locking up powerful frontliners. He is godlike and what I would consider a must-slot for those Boss Flesh battles, though, no question. Does just as great against the cannon dudes--though for that one, I usually use an Arbalest who camped with a Restring buff and completely lock down the brigands since her damage is way higher.
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Mar 14, 2016 17:47
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Spiked Collar cranks up Houndmaster damage pretty solidly, especially if you can run a second damage trinket along with it.
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Mar 14, 2016 17:48
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Also he has a good dog and he, himself is a cool dude.
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Mar 14, 2016 18:08
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So, I found out that you only get the broken pew loot from beating the Prophet if you actually destroyed the pews during the fight. ...and I only found this out because the first time I brought a party who all had a way to reach the Prophet without destroying the pews first was the Champion version 
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Mar 14, 2016 19:11
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Houndmaster also has excellent de-stressing camp skills if you didn't bring someone like a MaA for buffs
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Mar 14, 2016 19:41
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Houndmaster is great at basically everything that isn't direct damage or healing. Guarding, dodge-tanking, marking, scouting, stunning, de-stressing...he can even put out good damage in a pinch when you really need it. I only managed to get one dogsman into champion level dungeons because all of the others were cursed, but he really quickly became my MVP once I started using his guard. There are a lot of encounters where you can wipe out or disable the back row, leaving enemies who will only ever attack your frontlines. Stick a houndmaster in position 2 and have him guard the front, and you dodge almost everything coming your way. He can also dodge really nasty attacks like Into The Pot, the drowned crew anchor, and treebranch smackdown. And he fucks up the Flesh. And he can prevent night ambushes. God bless you, Man And Dog.
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Mar 14, 2016 20:18
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He's really good, he just needs help with damage. Put him in a mark party and he's in great shape. HM + BH might as well be cheating in the Warrens, especially if you get someone to mark before they both go. Neither gives a poo poo about being shuffled and both have high-% stuns and good Scouting. Some people just think he can do everything perfectly. He can't, at least not by himself. But he also doesn't suck at anything, so he has that going for him, because he can do something in any position. He's also very good against bosses because circumstances work in his favor: He wants a mark and to pop a biscuit, and a long Boss fight is the ideal time to do both, plus he gets bleeding which is most effective in a long fight, and his best pal is a dude who loves kicking the poo poo out of large enemies, which many bosses are.
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Mar 14, 2016 21:27
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I love my Hound Masters but for some reason they always eat 60%+ of all the back row stress enemies' attacks, no matter who they're with or where they are in formation. I have no idea why.
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Mar 14, 2016 21:44
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