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SonicRulez posted:I have to assume that those upset over the treatment of Barbara and Selina are watching this LP blind. I don't see how you can feel that way if you've finished the game. I have finished the game and it's still pretty terrible.
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Mar 12, 2016 22:36
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Grapplejack posted:So hey, here's the terrible part of this game; Catwoman is great and still extremely fun to play as, but the game decides to shove her in a closet and have batman rescue her. This is emblematic of Arkham Knight's big problem of treating its female characters like garbage and using them only to spur batman to act. What's worse is that the Catwoman and Batman team up sections prove that this should have been the signature feature of a new game, power groups switching their different combos to fight groups too big for one bat. A good mix up of abilities and combos could be sick if they got even a quarter of attention that Battank races got, but its the big new thing of this game so we gotta imagine more ways to cram it in. RACE AFTER BARBRA, RACE TO SAVE CATWOMAN IN OBSTACLE COURSES, RACE TO GET POINTS. ARE YOU LOVING THE BATMOBILE SECTIONS YET? BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT MORE TO GO. I think I said it before in the Arkham Thread, but if you make the next game's signature feature team ups and eventually set them against something really big like say a brainwashed Superman, you could easily turn the Arkham formula into a Justice League expanded set of games. But that's just my stupid little dream watching Batman need several damsels to rescue. Aithon posted:At least most thug chatter is much better than that. In particular, I remember overhearing a robber saying something like "OK, OK, I'll go to one more riot, but then I gotta go home, it's my turn to watch the kids." Yeah there are some good ones, I just wish they'd actually show this in some parts of the game. "Hey Bat, I'll stop if you don't hit me too much. I just wanted a new toy for my little girl's Birthday".
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Mar 12, 2016 22:38
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Aithon posted:At least most thug chatter is much better than that. In particular, I remember overhearing a robber saying something like "OK, OK, I'll go to one more riot, but then I gotta go home, it's my turn to watch the kids." Why would this guy/ his ex wife leave their kids anywhere near Gotham with all this crazy poo poo happening though? Madness.
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Mar 12, 2016 22:47
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I wonder if there is going to be a Arkham Racing game al ah Jak and Daxter?
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Mar 12, 2016 22:47
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Grapplejack posted:I have finished the game and it's still pretty terrible. Sad. Well for the rest of you, hang on until the end. It's just not as bad as it seems. Crabtree posted:What's worse is that the Catwoman and Batman team up sections prove that this should have been the signature feature of a new game, power groups switching their different combos to fight groups too big for one bat. A good mix up of abilities and combos could be sick if they got even a quarter of attention that Battank races got, but its the big new thing of this game so we gotta imagine more ways to cram it in. RACE AFTER BARBRA, RACE TO SAVE CATWOMAN IN OBSTACLE COURSES, RACE TO GET POINTS. ARE YOU LOVING THE BATMOBILE SECTIONS YET? BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT MORE TO GO. Riddler is like 1/2 car, this next segment is all car, that mine sidequest is all car. The two big gimmicks in my eyes were the Dual Play segments and the Batmobile and sadly they decided to focus on the latter. Catwoman still has the weakest gameplay of the 4 characters returning from City, but I would take 100 of her segments over the 100000 Batmobile segments we get. It's just so stupid.
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Mar 12, 2016 23:04
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SonicRulez posted:Sad. Well for the rest of you, hang on until the end. It's just not as bad as it seems. Well it seems pretty godawful, so that shouldn't be too difficult.
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Mar 12, 2016 23:13
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Crabtree posted:Yeah there are some good ones, I just wish they'd actually show this in some parts of the game. "Hey Bat, I'll stop if you don't hit me too much. I just wanted a new toy for my little girl's Birthday". Just makes you drop whatever you're doing and go pay him a visit. Anyhow, I don't mind the Batmobile that much and the game gets more balanced with regards to gameplay elements as it goes on (that is to say, contrary to what we're seeing now, Riddler isn't all about the car and he'll soon be sending us into the silly deathtraps we know and love). The double team segments are more of a limited gimmick than anything, there's like twelve of them throughout the game - they definitely aren't supposed to be a big new thing. I get the Batmobile is divisive but even without it we got the biggest batgame to date and there was very little to be improved on the freeflow and predator gameplay anyway. There's really only one thing I think they really screwed up by not improving and that's the gadgets - all the stuff we got so far is straight out of AC. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Mar 12, 2016 |
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Mar 12, 2016 23:28
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SonicRulez posted:Riddler is like 1/2 car, this next segment is all car, that mine sidequest is all car. The two big gimmicks in my eyes were the Dual Play segments and the Batmobile and sadly they decided to focus on the latter. Catwoman still has the weakest gameplay of the 4 characters returning from City, but I would take 100 of her segments over the 100000 Batmobile segments we get. It's just so stupid. I suspect it's because from a design standpoint it's hard to do Dual Play in a way that's engaging at multiple skill levels. Low level players won't know the differences between characters, and high level players have to react to your partner's behavior. Although it's conceptually appealing, it's not really possible to require players to engage with it in a deep way.
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Mar 12, 2016 23:48
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The Casualty posted:Why would this guy/ his ex wife leave their kids anywhere near Gotham with all this crazy poo poo happening though? Madness. Regarding Catwoman and Oracle, it's pretty hard to use stuff that hasn't even happened yet to justify that what's happening right now is not that bad. Especially since we've got a long way to go until it gets better.
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Mar 12, 2016 23:50
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Aithon posted:They're probably safe inside one of hundreds of indestructible buildings no one can enter. Or that dude just commutes to riots. He's really dedicated to his life of crime, you guys. In a similar vein, there's one thug who says that he should go rob a toy store later, because his kids have been bugging him for a present. Yeah, especially since resorting to in-universe explanations doesn't address the fact Rocksteady decided to have both of the female leads captured/taken hostage simultaneously to motivate Batman into action. They even have Joker lampshade it, for god's sake!
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Mar 13, 2016 00:18
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Didn't Batman have to rescue Catwoman near the start of City, too, or am I remembering that wrong? I seem to recall her being captured by Two-Face, but it's been a while since I watched the LP so I wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong. Yeah, I'm 'n'thing the eye rolling at having another female character be captured for plot bait. I can understand people who've played later into the game asking us to wait and see how it plays out before judging, but even if these plots work out so the women get revenge in the end, it still leaves a pretty sour taste in my mouth that they even need to. You don't need to have a badass woman be captured by the bad guys so she can later prove her badassery. Once, I'd be mostly okay with, but it happening twice in quick succession? Especially since this feels like a really thin excuse to bring Catwoman back into play. Really, Riddler's going to capture her to get at Batman? Despite the fact that she probably works with Riddler more often than Bats? This game has much better incidental writing, for the thug chatter and such, than the other games in the series, but I'm not loving the big plot hits so far.
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Mar 13, 2016 00:19
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The Casualty posted:Why would this guy/ his ex wife leave their kids anywhere near Gotham with all this crazy poo poo happening though? Madness. There's a great bit in the Stephanie Brown Batgirl comic where a guy is faking terrorist attacks in order to scare people into leaving Gotham, because he's trying to save lives.
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Mar 13, 2016 00:24
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wiegieman posted:There's a great bit in the Stephanie Brown Batgirl comic where a guy is faking terrorist attacks in order to scare people into leaving Gotham, because he's trying to save lives. I was expecting that sentence to end with "...because he's trying to lower property values." Then again, I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. Such a plot would actually be vaguely plausible around here!
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Mar 13, 2016 00:29
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I do love the thug in this update who's basically all " How dare this foreign army occupy my city? I hope Batman deals with them before we kill him!"GirlCalledBob posted:Didn't Batman have to rescue Catwoman near the start of City, too, or am I remembering that wrong? I seem to recall her being captured by Two-Face, but it's been a while since I watched the LP so I wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong. Yeah, but the game made it pretty clear that she was fully capable of freeing herself but Batman arrived before she made her move. AC handles Talia so much worse.
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Mar 13, 2016 00:30
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Catwoman works best as anti-hero, when she's confident and sassy, has a comlicated relationship with Batman, and likes steals from bad guys to amuse herself, but still has a strong moral compass. They get that down pretty well, but how the character is protrayed, and how the character is used in the plot are two different issues.
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Mar 13, 2016 00:59
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Whilst it would've been nice to have a different hostage I personally find it more likely that Riddler somehow capture Catwoman than any other potential ally here. It's also interesting that whilst those captured are Oracle and Catwoman the reason they're captured is because they are indeed more vulnerable than most of Batman's other allies. Catwoman is a known figure amongst Gotham's criminal element who is mostly self-sufficient and just happens to be friendly with Batman more than an actual member of his bat-family, so abducting her is a lot easier for Nigma than say Robin or Nightwing. Meanwhile Oracle is actually not a known figure, so normally her being a cripple in a clock-tower doesn't matter, except the Arkham Knight knows where she is and knows how to get past her defence systems and decides to take out an important member of Batman's team and give him a reason to care. Without Oracle Batman has to rely on his own capabilities and those of Alfred, which in theory is a huge blow. It's still unfortunate that they wrote the game this way but they never suggest that they were abducted because they are women, they've been abducted because they're friends of Batman. I'm sure if the Knight could easily take Robin/Nightwing he would've but neither of them are in wheelchairs and as I mentioned Riddler only really has the option of abducting Catwoman for a hostage at short notice. Of course neither hostage is particularly needed to make Batman care but at least Arkham Knight actually wants to hurt Batman on an emotional level and Riddler is enough of a nutcase to believe he needs a hostage to make Batman pay attention to him over the much bigger threat of the Knight. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 01:06
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Lord_Magmar posted:Whilst it would've been nice to have a different hostage I personally find it more likely that Riddler somehow capture Catwoman than any other potential ally here. It's also interesting that whilst those captured are Oracle and Catwoman the reason they're captured is because they are indeed more vulnerable than most of Batman's other allies. I mean, seriously. Nobody twisted their arms. I mean you said 'if the Knight could have taken Robin/Nightwing he would've but neither of them are in wheelchairs'. Ecept of course, the writers have more or less complete control over the fictional universe. They could have rewritten the story to have the Knight take either of them instead of Barbara or Selina. But they didn't. I mean, nobody has explained why Oracle didn't evacuate. Couldn't she have relocated to the Batcave & supported Bruce from there? That's not right in the middle of hostile territory & you have Alfred for backup. You're telling me she doesn't have like, 5 different hidden bases in the tri-state area to operate from in case the clock tower was compromised? If they'd said something like 'oh, there's a comms blackout Bruce, I need to be in the city to provide you support' that would be something. But nope, Oracle needs to be Damsel in Distress (1), so let's keep her right in enemy territory so Bruce & Gordon can angst over her kidnapping. Even if she stomps the crap out of the Knight & Scarecrow in an awesome Batmech later, they've still made her a damsel in distress right now. It's like they've ever even heard of Women in Refrigerators!
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Mar 13, 2016 01:32
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I'll talk about hostages the Knight should or could of taken later when it becomes appropriate, but I want to you remember this train of thought for later when a greater issue of Arkham Knight comes up.
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Mar 13, 2016 01:37
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The way I see it, it's not really a problem because it's in any one work specifically, it's a problem because it happens all the time in writing and ends up being the most lazy, stereotypical and predictable thing. e: Welp, that's basically what the link said. Call me Captain Redundant. 
Aithon fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 01:39
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Lord_Magmar posted:Whilst it would've been nice to have a different hostage I personally find it more likely that Riddler somehow capture Catwoman than any other potential ally here. It's also interesting that whilst those captured are Oracle and Catwoman the reason they're captured is because they are indeed more vulnerable than most of Batman's other allies. No, you're setting up some sorta false dichotomy. There are alternatives to "Capture Catwoman" that aren't "Capture another of Batman's allies". That's the deal like, the plot didn't inherently require that someone be captured so the Riddler could make Batman do things The Riddler could be actually working with scarecrow, or he could be doing independently bad things that threaten the public or batman personally, like threatening to reveal Batman's identity. The Riddler could have said he had Catwoman, only for Batman to find she's escaped on her own.
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Mar 13, 2016 01:42
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As I said it's not necessary and I don't agree with it I'm just supplying the sort of logic that reaches this point. I don't think this game needed the hostages in either case but can see where someone somewhere thought the choices were correct once the need for hostages was decided. I actually think Nightwing being the Riddler Hostage would've been hilarious and a lot better than what we got. You could even use the Harley story to explain it as them taking him when they rescue Poison Ivy, it's not like Ivy didn't have him in her viney grip. It would even make one of the other side missions pretty interesting too for reasons we'll discover soonish from memory. Oracle on the other hand doesn't really have a hostage replacement that would have the same story impact because part of it is driving a wedge between Gordon and Batman. But again her abduction is less about her and more about the Knight. Having him attack and her hide or escape would've done the same thing. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 01:50
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Aithon posted:At least most thug chatter is much better than that. In particular, I remember overhearing a robber saying something like "OK, OK, I'll go to one more riot, but then I gotta go home, it's my turn to watch the kids." I hope his kids aren't still in the city. At work at the moment. I'll comment on things when I get back home and watch the video. I will say that the sudden enmity between Riddler and Catwoman is weird and out of nowhere, especially given how she was at odds with Two-Face in the last game. But I'm inclined to believe all that "bitch" stuff in the previous game got them a lot of flak, so they stuck her with someone unlikely to speak that way.
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Mar 13, 2016 02:01
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Catwomen's goddamned idle animation. 
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Mar 13, 2016 02:26
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You know who Riddler should have kidnapped that's important to Batman? Commissioner Gordon. It'd help Riddler feel like he's actually assisting Scarecrow with the plan since he's taking a key player out of the game, it's somebody I can genuinely believe can't actually deal with Riddler by themselves, and it makes the "Oracle got kidnapped" plot slightly (slightly) less obnoxious because it at least has the interesting twist of Gordon still being furious about the whole thing but not being able to go after her himself and still needing to rely on Batman to get him out of the explosive collar. Plus you could punch robots as Commissioner Gordon.
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Mar 13, 2016 02:27
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I just want to say that playable Gordon sounds absolutely loving amazing.
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Mar 13, 2016 02:57
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CuwiKhons posted:It'd help Riddler feel like he's actually assisting Scarecrow with the plan Riddler is way too in love with himself to ever consider helping someone else. If anything, Scarecrow is helping him, not that he needs it. Danakir posted:I just want to say that playable Gordon sounds absolutely loving amazing. Don't forget that we got to walk around as Commissioner Gordon earlier. 
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Mar 13, 2016 03:00
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Riddler is way too in love with himself to ever consider helping someone else. If anything, Scarecrow is helping him, not that he needs it. Nah man, no way. Riddler's alright with helping people because it means he gets to be smug about how they couldn't have done it without him. The best thing Scarecrow could possibly do to keep Eddie on his side would be to be like "Look man, I need you to take the Commissioner off the streets, keep him out of my way. There's nobody else I can trust to handle this," and Eddie would be delighted to do it.
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Mar 13, 2016 03:15
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Most annoying part to me was Batman outright saying he doesn't know who Arkham Knight is and asking Alfred to figure that out. World's Greatest Detective
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Mar 13, 2016 03:24
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Acne Rain posted:Most annoying part to me was Batman outright saying he doesn't know who Arkham Knight is and asking Alfred to figure that out. To be fair, one can understand why he's not exactly keen on the idea of one of his beloved protege's being one of Scarecrow's goons. Even Batman's only human.
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Mar 13, 2016 03:32
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A big theme of this game in particular is Batman's own personal failings as a person and a hero. For example he probably knows exactly who the Arkham Knight is already, or at least has a pretty big idea, he just really doesn't want to believe it. He tries to work with others and just pushes them away because he's afraid he'll get more people hurt. He tries to clean up Gotham and it turns into a worse hell-hole than before. The Joker hallucination is a pretty good example of this actually, it's largely Batman talking at himself. The biggest problem is Batman doesn't just put up the implacable perfect crime-fighter image he believes it to some level, so every time something goes wrong it's his fault. Talia's death is him not being good enough, his parents getting shot is him not being able to save them, so on and so forth.
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Mar 13, 2016 03:43
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Crabtree posted:What's worse is that the Catwoman and Batman team up sections prove that this should have been the signature feature of a new game, power groups switching their different combos to fight groups too big for one bat. A good mix up of abilities and combos could be sick if they got even a quarter of attention that Battank races got, but its the big new thing of this game so we gotta imagine more ways to cram it in. RACE AFTER BARBRA, RACE TO SAVE CATWOMAN IN OBSTACLE COURSES, RACE TO GET POINTS. ARE YOU LOVING THE BATMOBILE SECTIONS YET? BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT MORE TO GO. I haven't played any of the games after Origins because I still only have a 360 and yeah I totally agree with this. I think it'd be really cool to also play as civilians or cops or workers, whatever stuck in the city with all this rampant crime in the middle of a brawl. Batman's flipping over people's heads and doing roundhouses off of walls and you're over here trying to overpower three people at once without gadgets or the ridiculous physical training he has. It'd be really neat if you got to play as people who occasionally knew how to fight too, like you intervene in a brawl and it turns out whoever you're saving knows Muay Thai or something. Looking at this from a City to Knight jump, it'd be really great if Batman wasn't such a brick and let Nightwing and Robin actually help, allowing you to switch characters around the city. Granted, you'd still have to switch to Batman to do the main story but it'd be nice to save some firemen with Robin or Nightwing instead. Or just play them outside of challenge maps.
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Mar 13, 2016 05:21
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^^^ Like a GTA V-style switching mechanic? That could be cool. The team up battles make me wish this game was Batman and Robin clowning the Arkham Knight's army full time. Batman telling Robin to mind his own business every couple hours only rubs salt in the wound of missed potential.
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Mar 13, 2016 07:16
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The Casualty posted:^^^ I wish they'd doubled down on the Batfamily so you could team up with Batwoman, Batgirl & Blackbat. Also Batcow.
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Mar 13, 2016 08:37
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RareAcumen posted:I haven't played any of the games after Origins because I still only have a 360 and yeah I totally agree with this. I think it'd be really cool to also play as civilians or cops or workers, whatever stuck in the city with all this rampant crime in the middle of a brawl. Batman's flipping over people's heads and doing roundhouses off of walls and you're over here trying to overpower three people at once without gadgets or the ridiculous physical training he has. It'd be really neat if you got to play as people who occasionally knew how to fight too, like you intervene in a brawl and it turns out whoever you're saving knows Muay Thai or something. Rocksteady actually already made about 60% of this as their first game before AA. It was quite good, and began their "emergency workers in peril" fetish that continues to this day.
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Mar 13, 2016 09:58
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The Casualty posted:^^^ And then you start sending coded messages to your allies because- Considering how they found Oracle, I'm expecting the Arkham Knight to hack your communications too eventually- you're probably being observed at all times, and since you can rotate the camera around you can see him wink as he tells them to stay away. But really, this doesn't solve the real problem I have. I just want campy Brave and the Bold Batman who has an impossible Looney Tunes-esq utility belt that does whatever it needs to at the moment. Even if that means producing a sword or nth metal knuckles.
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Mar 13, 2016 11:03
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I wondered this about the hallucinations in the previous games as well, but what's actually going on when Batman thinks he's fighting the mad hatter's goons? Is he wandering around the police station beating the poo poo out of random cops? Also, why did his x-ray vision show a skeleton in that third car when there wasn't anyone there? Acne Rain posted:World's Greatest Detective
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Mar 13, 2016 11:37
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RareAcumen posted:And then you start sending coded messages to your allies because- Considering how they found Oracle, I'm expecting the Arkham Knight to hack your communications too eventually- you're probably being observed at all times, and since you can rotate the camera around you can see him wink as he tells them to stay away. 
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Mar 13, 2016 12:03
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Major_JF posted:I wonder if there is going to be a Arkham Racing game al ah Jak and Daxter? à la
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Mar 13, 2016 14:38
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Great Joe posted:à la Also, it's pronounced "peh-dant" not "pee-dant"
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Mar 13, 2016 15:43
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I am glad this exists, because it exposed an important problem in comic books. However, I hate that it grew as much as it did. Now if anything negative happens to a woman in a comic book, any discussion is immediately on a timer to how long it takes for someone to bring up a fridge. anilEhilated posted:predator gameplay This newest update also started another trend that I felt iffy about. There are a lot of outdoor predator segments in the game. I don't enjoy them nearly as much as the ones that are inside. A lot of the challenge is taken away.
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Mar 13, 2016 16:21
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