|
"Clandestine Freemasonry" sounds so much cooler than homophobia. 
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2016 23:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 17:25 |
|
|
It's an easy stance for me. If you were to expel one of my brothers for being gay you would not be a regular mason. His sexual preference has nothing to do with his ability to be a fabulous(deal with it) mason. I would fight to the death for him after finding him worthy. If Georgia or Tennessee want to ban such a brother I have no problem recommending them be recognized as a clandestine lodge. I understand that harmony brings us together, but we have a duty to tell a brother when they are wrong, and enforce the rules when and if we must.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2016 07:56
|
|
|
Maksimus is right, too. It is precisely the duty of every mason to gently correct his brethren for their lapses - we are expressly instructed so.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2016 08:44
|
|
|
Loomer posted:Maksimus is right, too. It is precisely the duty of every mason to gently correct his brethren for their lapses - we are expressly instructed so. Sadly, gentle admonishment is being ignored by both sides. One side expels gays, the other side expels phobes. Then they retreat into their respective corners and congratulate themselves for being more masonic than those guys over there. The issue I have is with the proudly righteous attitude. It is that attitude that is destroying harmony. We can disagree without being disagreeable.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2016 16:13
|
|
|
patentmagus posted:One side expels [good upstanding masons], the other side expels [grand lodges violating our ancient precepts]. Hey, seems pretty obvious that it's a false equivocation to call these both wrong or equal harms or whatever. That actions have consequences is a law of man and nature, the understanding of which is a cornerstone of living a moral life.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2016 18:16
|
|
|
The third degree charge is when you're taught not to aggravate or palliate the offenses of your brethren, but instead concern troll the poo poo out of them. Edit: phone postin' Emron fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Mar 12, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2016 18:21
|
|
|
Emron posted:The third degree charge is when you're taught not to aggravate or palliative the offenses of your brethren, but instead concern troll the poo poo out of them. Haha, god drat it that's so true.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2016 18:32
|
|
|
Emron posted:The third degree charge is when you're taught not to aggravate or palliate the offenses of your brethren, but instead concern troll the poo poo out of them. 100% accurate.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2016 18:44
|
|
|
Serious question, can you be brought up on masonic charges in a different state than one you belong to? I can't imagine the GL of WA sending out a gay brother to TN with travel papers just to have him brought up on charges there.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2016 21:50
|
|
|
I don't believe so. Not sure about visitation, though, could they deny him entry?
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2016 21:52
|
|
|
Yes, they can deny entry as who attends a meeting is at the will and pleasure of the master. No, you can only be brought up on masonic charges by your own jurisdiction (one of the reasons you can't be a Mason without a lodge). Another lodge cannot even communicate the wish for charges to be brought directly. If my lodge in MD wants a brother from the Moon Lodge brought up on charges, it has to go my lodge > Maryland Grand Lodge > Texas Grand Lodge > Moon Lodge.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2016 21:58
|
|
|
My take remains if you do not recognize a brother of mine in your jurisdiction you are not a regular lodge and I don't recognize irregular lodges.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 01:49
|
|
|
Delivery McGee posted:As a non-Mason who reads this thread mostly for the jokes about the goat, I agree. Any organization that would think ill of you for taking time off for family's sake (this extends to employers and the bowling team) is not a club you'd want to associate with anyway. You're doing the right thing, your brothers will understand if they're half-decent human beings (which I'm pretty sure is a prerequisite to joining, isn't it?). Thanks friend. Appreciate the sentiment. I'll be doing so tomorrow night.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 09:19
|
|
|
shame on an IGA posted:GLNF was restored after they got rid of that lunatic Stefani. Gwen?
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 09:21
|
|
|
Cimber posted:I truly hope this is not the start of a 'conservative' vs 'liberal' fight among various grand lodges. I can easily see places like Alabama, Mississippi and other grand lodges banding together. Well, I may be wrong! Mississippi voted down a anti-gay/trans proposal yesterday.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 13:42
|
|
|
Grand Lodge has decided they want to go ahead and sell our temple and disband our lodge in due time. A lodge that has a 75% new member retention rate and attracts multiple applicants and at least one candidate a year. A lodge that brings in more money from our tenants monthly than it costs to pay the rates on the building. A lodge fiscally capable of maintaining itself while sponsoring charity in the community. A lodge that has existed for over 120 years in the same town, meeting in the same temple for 100 of those years. A temple that is the largest and oldest in the entire district and geographical region, founded as one of the first hundred lodges in the state. A lodge that, at every turn, performs the ritual to a standard of excellence other lodges attempt to emulate. I am struggling to find a reason not to hand them my walking papers the day they sell it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 10:44
|
|
|
Loomer posted:Grand Lodge has decided they want to go ahead and sell our temple and disband our lodge in due time. Why do they want to sell it?
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 11:12
|
|
|
That seems so completely anti-Masonic. We have lodges that are barely above water, barely get new members, and are probably dying out faster than they're being replaced, but the MM degree lays out how many anciently constituted a MM's lodge, and if they have that there's no reason for the Grand Lodge to step in. I'm sure there's some underlying reason I'm not privy to, but good grief.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 17:12
|
|
|
I'm very sorry to hear that, Loomer. Naturally, I don't know all the circumstances, but it seems like, regardless of the reasons for the decision, it's highly unfortunate. In positive news, tonight is my FC degree! I'm looking forward to it, but I'm a little nervous about having to learn another catechism, as my new job has me working twice as many hours as the one I had when I was learning my first one.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 18:35
|
|
|
Fellow Craft is my favorite. The catechism should be about 80% the same, so you should be fine.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 20:04
|
|
|
The first examination is the hardest because it's all new. The rest are much easier.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 21:55
|
|
|
Colonial Air Force posted:Fellow Craft is my favorite. That's definitely a relief. I feel like I know the EA catechism backwards and forwards by now, so it's good to know I won't have too many issues.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 21:58
|
|
|
I just did mine, it was great fun! New stuff is easy as.Loomer posted:Grand Lodge has decided they want to go ahead and sell our temple and disband our lodge in due time. Boo, that sucks. They sold our building before I joined but thankfully didn't disband the lodge or I wouldn't be a member at all. We just get to chill in the neighbour's building when they aren't using it...
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 00:42
|
|
|
GlyphGryph posted:I just did mine, it was great fun! New stuff is easy as. You think so? I feel like it went too quickly for me to memorize it all as much. It was definitely powerful. A lot to take in. But I'm sure with a few practices I'll have it down. I went through the degree alongside the elderly brother who did the first two pages of our EA catechism. We're likely going to divide this one similarly, as his memory isn't what it once was.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 03:20
|
|
|
Lovable Luciferian posted:Why do they want to sell it? Ostensibly, because it's 'more efficient' to move us into a smaller, less safe temple out of town. It's part of a broader strategy of moving freemasonry out of rural areas into centralized urban centers, which is absurd in this case as we happen to be the largest urban center in the region, with the largest temple of the sturdiest design, longest history, and strongest finances. But, the plan is to move us into that smaller temple, which they'll then probably try and shut down as well, because two other major towns in the district are our 'major masonic centres'. Frankly, the whole thing is disgraceful and symptomatic of what's wrong with modern masonry in my opinion. We're building temples that are first and foremost conference centers etc to rent out, with the temple the smallest part of the building, tacked on as an afterthought. We're putting the cart before the horse and forgetting that the fiscal element of tenants and renting is there to subsidize the Craft, not the first and foremost purpose of temples (which are now to be called centers, not temples or lodges, on plaques etc.) There'll be a sea change in a decade or two and maybe we'll be able to establish a new temple in town. But we're losing 100+ years of history in that one building, likely to lose a double digit lodge number and 130+ years of masonry in this town as a result. Our temple is as old as our country, our lodge is older, but rather than try and keep it alive (and we have 75% effective new member retention for the last 4 years (100% on paper but one of the fellas doesn't ever show up), with new candidates yearly, while staying firmly in the black fiscally) they're going to shut us down. Old Dirty Cumburgs posted:I'm very sorry to hear that, Loomer. Naturally, I don't know all the circumstances, but it seems like, regardless of the reasons for the decision, it's highly unfortunate. GlyphGryph posted:I just did mine, it was great fun! New stuff is easy as. Congratulations to you newly passed workmen, and promise you two won't let my complaints influence you. Despite the problems we see manifested here and there - this fiasco, the potential schism with Georgia, etc - Masonry as a spiritual and moral pursuit is still worth pursuing. A brother (who, ironically, turned out to be a bit of one himself) gave me some sound advice when I first joined: Masonry is meant to make good men better men. Unfortunately, assholes will stay assholes - but don't let them stop you from being the better man.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 04:00
|
|
|
Loomer posted:Ostensibly, because it's 'more efficient' to move us into a smaller, less safe temple out of town. It's part of a broader strategy of moving freemasonry out of rural areas into centralized urban centers, which is absurd in this case as we happen to be the largest urban center in the region, with the largest temple of the sturdiest design, longest history, and strongest finances. But, the plan is to move us into that smaller temple, which they'll then probably try and shut down as well, because two other major towns in the district are our 'major masonic centres'. This is sound advice, thank you. It's definitely been something I've had to remind myself of, on occasion. Though the things I may hear from some of my elderly brethren may not always sit right with me, I find the lessons learned of great value, and I have hope that, with the aid of my fellow young brothers entering the lodge alongside me, we'll be a positive influence on those around us, and on Masonry as a whole.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 04:11
|
|
|
Loomer posted:Congratulations to you newly passed workmen, and promise you two won't let my complaints influence you. Despite the problems we see manifested here and there - this fiasco, the potential schism with Georgia, etc - Masonry as a spiritual and moral pursuit is still worth pursuing. A brother (who, ironically, turned out to be a bit of one himself) gave me some sound advice when I first joined: Masonry is meant to make good men better men. Unfortunately, assholes will stay assholes - but don't let them stop you from being the better man. No man ever became a better man without challenges. If it was a perfect organization, if it had no "rough edges" to smooth out, and what would be the purpose of joining? Part of becoming a better person, of personal growth, is helping those around me and the groups I'm part of become better as well, part of spiritual and moral growth is helping others accomplish the same. I hope to do my part to improve the organization and the experience of my brothers through my membership as much as I am improved by it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 14:31
|
|
|
What state/jurisdiction are you in?
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 14:33
|
|
|
It's probably better if I don't say, unfortunately, or at least publicly. There's been some scuttlebutt about unmasonic conduct charges for anyone who makes a fuss in public about it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 14:36
|
|
|
Loomer posted:It's probably better if I don't say, unfortunately, or at least publicly. There's been some scuttlebutt about unmasonic conduct charges for anyone who makes a fuss in public about it. That's stupid as hell. If that's really the case then your grand lodge is beyond screwed up.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 14:55
|
|
|
My hope on that front is that it's just a rumour that got overinflated in the grapevine.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 14:58
|
|
|
Loomer posted:My hope on that front is that it's just a rumour that got overinflated in the grapevine. I've heard of weirder things in Masonry, but not many. That's some serious brown shirt stuff.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 15:00
|
|
|
Loomer posted:It's probably better if I don't say, unfortunately, or at least publicly. There's been some scuttlebutt about unmasonic conduct charges for anyone who makes a fuss in public about it. This is hosed up.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 15:55
|
|
|
Emron posted:This is hosed up. I find it hard to believe, but stranger things have happened.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 16:03
|
|
|
Loomer posted:It's probably better if I don't say, unfortunately, or at least publicly. There's been some scuttlebutt about unmasonic conduct charges for anyone who makes a fuss in public about it. This sounds worse than the original thing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 16:31
|
|
|
I think, if it isn't just overinflated rumour, it's aimed more at the media. Just don't want to take the chance. I suppose this is what they call the chilling effect.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 17:15
|
|
|
Loomer posted:I think, if it isn't just overinflated rumour, it's aimed more at the media. Just don't want to take the chance. I suppose this is what they call the chilling effect. Gotta confess - if the decisions regarding the building and lodge are public knowledge then the issue itself is open to public comment. I can see the grand lodge trying to show a united front, but as far as I know we aren't charged with a duty of obedience to grand lodge. If I were considering demitting anyway, I'd also be extremely tempted to see if they dared charge me with unmasonic conduct. The worst that happens is that I get booted from an organization I don't want to be a part of.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 22:37
|
|
|
patentmagus posted:Gotta confess - if the decisions regarding the building and lodge are public knowledge then the issue itself is open to public comment. I can see the grand lodge trying to show a united front, but as far as I know we aren't charged with a duty of obedience to grand lodge. I agree with that. He should tell the local news about this, it would make for a great story. The Grand Lodge can go to hell.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 22:51
|
|
|
patentmagus posted:as far as I know we aren't charged with a duty of obedience to grand lodge. Explicit part of my pledge is obedience to the laws of the land, the laws of the GL and those of my own lodge, in that order. This gives for some interesting discussions that normally close with "let's work to change those laws without breaking them".
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2016 16:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 17:25 |
|
|
In my jurisdiction we are obligated to obey the laws, rules, and edicts of the GL. I can think of a few examples that would lead to a moral quandary there.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2016 17:31
|
|