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Annointed posted:Also rapid fire is garbage on a sharpshooter. I thought it would allow me to double tap, nope. The other option was rapid fire pistol, nope. The only way I got it to work was grapple hook my way til I got the right chance to use it. How does it work? Do you not shoot twice with it?
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Mar 14, 2016 01:56
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Maluco Marinero posted:How does it work? Do you not shoot twice with it? It works the same way it does with the Ranger class, you just can't rapid fire at targets at squadsight range. They have to be within the sharpshooters 'normal' (i.e pistol) range to work. Either way it's still fantastic for wrecking avatars and codexes
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Mar 14, 2016 01:59
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Maluco Marinero posted:Yup, the mind controlled dude is considered an enemy in near every way. Flashbangs will hit them too. The one that got mindjacked was a ranger, who ran up and slashed the sharpshooter for like 3/4ths of his health. The sharpshooter responded in kind by pistol blasting her directly in the forehead for 3/4ths of her health. Then they just stood there awkwardly staring at each other as if they had not just made each other 75% dead. 
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Mar 14, 2016 02:01
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Oh, that's totally fine then, I'm kinda glad Squadsight isn't as powerful as in XCOM, and there are rewards for working with a mid range sniper.
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Mar 14, 2016 02:03
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WarLocke posted:Oh my lord so apparently Repeaters can proc off of Stock damage I love this gif because it looks like they're in some theater play and the officer is only pretending to die. 
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Mar 14, 2016 02:06
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Away all Goats posted:It works the same way it does with the Ranger class, you just can't rapid fire at targets at squadsight range. They have to be within the sharpshooters 'normal' (i.e pistol) range to work. I got into a similar situation with a sniper who got Rupture. You can use it after moving(!), but it can't be used on squad sight targets.
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Mar 14, 2016 02:19
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I'm just glad they fixed Ever Vigilant to work with snipers so my AWC roll wasn't completely wasted. Its not awesome but at least it does something now.
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Mar 14, 2016 02:23
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Dr Christmas posted:I got into a similar situation with a sniper who got Rupture. You can use it after moving(!), but it can't be used on squad sight targets. This sounds absolutely amazing and I hope to someday experience this.
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Mar 14, 2016 02:39
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LowellDND posted:If I want to make a voicepack, is there a list of lines I need? 'gold move' 'critical hit' or whatever? Moving at the speed of death! Is there any voice option by default that has that line in it?
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Mar 14, 2016 02:40
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It is true that it's basically robots vs medics, but medics still feel to run counter to the more offensive playstyle havoc protocol and combat protocol offer. Like if things go well, medics don't do anything special. Whereas not-medics WILL do special things. And again, my assumption is that if every live pod isn't dead or disabled in someway that they'll KILL someone, not merely wound them. I kinda feel the medics will maybe be useful, but I'd rather have that guaranteed combat protocol damage or the scanning protocol. Medics feel too reactionary to me, and I try to avoid reacting to the enemy, I want them to react to ME.
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Mar 14, 2016 02:40
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Go into the editor, and look for the x2somethingsometjing solider voice bank. Id provide more detailed directions but im like 1k miles away from my computer with the SDK but you can look at one of those and hit properties and look at all the various triggers for the voice bank. Theres a lot. A lot of abilities have individual triggers too, same thing with the psi abilities.
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Mar 14, 2016 02:56
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SpookyLizard posted:It is true that it's basically robots vs medics, but medics still feel to run counter to the more offensive playstyle havoc protocol and combat protocol offer. Like if things go well, medics don't do anything special. Whereas not-medics WILL do special things. And again, my assumption is that if every live pod isn't dead or disabled in someway that they'll KILL someone, not merely wound them. I kinda feel the medics will maybe be useful, but I'd rather have that guaranteed combat protocol damage or the scanning protocol. Medics feel too reactionary to me, and I try to avoid reacting to the enemy, I want them to react to ME. What difficulty are we talking here though? Like I get the ideal, and I can definitely see the value in tilting to offense early to reduce damage, HOWEVER, the only units that I feel are probable instant kills early on are Officers and Stun Lancers, everyone else NEEDS to crit in order to kill. Medics can mean the difference between a mistake/bad roll resulting in you nursing soldiers in the (back line because you can't afford them to take another hit), and carrying on the mission with the same tempo and momentum as before. Stability has value, and a well placed medic can provide that stability, and they don't have the worst progression with an assault rifle either. The wounds don't really bother me either, at no point in my campaign am I going to say I wish I didn't have a deep roster. It's not like power levelling an A team has benefit beyond them getting to Colonel either, in fact it can be detrimental as you end up feeling like you can't down shift to the B-team because you've left them too far behind. Maluco Marinero fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 03:35
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Maluco Marinero posted:What difficulty are we talking here though? Like I get the ideal, and I can definitely see the value in tilting to offense early to reduce damage, HOWEVER, the only units that I feel are probable instant kills early on are Officers and Stun Lancers, everyone else NEEDS to crit in order to kill. Medics can mean the difference between a mistake/bad roll resulting in you nursing soldiers in the (back line because you can't afford them to take another hit), and carrying on the mission with the same tempo and momentum as before.
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Mar 14, 2016 03:44
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Medics are a great buffer. You are not going to "Solve" a pod every single time and to think otherwise is hubris or you're bringing enough Grenadiers to scorch earth. Medics are another backup plan. Controlling robots is a no brainer though. As annoying as Unconscious is, it's rare enough that it isn't too much of an issue.
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Mar 14, 2016 03:45
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malhavok posted:Watch out if one of your soldiers in overwatch gets mind controlled because they will shoot your rear end as soon as you try to save them. Panicked soldiers will overwatch fire on your own dudes too - guess who found this out the hard way after using threat assessment.
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Mar 14, 2016 03:57
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My first specialist tends to be a combat one, but I'll usually train up a medic as soon as I get a second because those guys can make a world of difference when things go poorly and you need your experienced soldiers to survive their  , usually by midgame I'll be fielding two specialists per team.
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Mar 14, 2016 03:59
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oohhboy posted:Medics are a great buffer. You are not going to "Solve" a pod every single time and to think otherwise is hubris or you're bringing enough Grenadiers to scorch earth. Medics are another backup plan. Controlling robots is a no brainer though. As annoying as Unconscious is, it's rare enough that it isn't too much of an issue. Yeah, but when you sacrifice your offense you are also more likely to get hurt. I've been saved way more times by combat protocol than by healing.
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Mar 14, 2016 04:00
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ZearothK posted:My first specialist tends to be a combat one, but I'll usually train up a medic as soon as I get a second because those guys can make a world of difference when things go poorly and you need your experienced soldiers to survive their Yep, that's where I'm heading too, I'd never take a medic over a combat hacker as my first but two specialists are great complements. Medics can heal without burning the whole turn from ages away, a medkit isn't even close to equivalent.
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Mar 14, 2016 04:02
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Maluco Marinero posted:Yep, that's where I'm heading too, I'd never take a medic over a combat hacker as my first but two specialists are great complements. Medics can heal without burning the whole turn from ages away, a medkit isn't even close to equivalent. oohhboy posted:Medics are a great buffer. You are not going to "Solve" a pod every single time and to think otherwise is hubris or you're bringing enough Grenadiers to scorch earth. Medics are another backup plan. Controlling robots is a no brainer though. As annoying as Unconscious is, it's rare enough that it isn't too much of an issue.
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Mar 14, 2016 04:09
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New update is far from bug free, I just accidentally set fire to one of my team, used a medkit and then the trooper had the fire effects for the whole mission without taking damage. I really liked beating the ADVENT transmitter mission using only stealth, would have loved for there to be more missions that could be won by a stealthy team with some tangible bonus for choosing that route.
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Mar 14, 2016 04:11
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ROCKET SCIENCE
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malhavok posted:Yeah, but when you sacrifice your offense you are also more likely to get hurt. I've been saved way more times by combat protocol than by healing. I only ever take one Specialist though, so the offensive sacrifice is small. Plus medic in the short term lets me throw my dudes back into the offensive. Sure the dude spend more time recovering, big deal, that what having more dudes is for. While guaranteed damage is nice, I like to brute force the RNG with increasing crits, flanks, cover destruction, DoT. You end up doing so much more damage that guaranteed damage doesn't compete. Sometimes you will lose, but I guess at the end of the day it comes down to how risk adversed you are.
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Mar 14, 2016 04:22
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oohhboy posted:Medics are a great buffer. You are not going to "Solve" a pod every single time and to think otherwise is hubris or you're bringing enough Grenadiers to scorch earth. Medics are another backup plan. Controlling robots is a no brainer though. As annoying as Unconscious is, it's rare enough that it isn't too much of an issue. Aid means I can usually send someone out farther into risky territory without bringing their own medit, too. I figure my specialist is going to deal more damage with their rifle from cover half the time depending on other abilities and perks, so I can park them in a good spot (near wherever I have my sharpshooter/high and out of range) and send my rangers/grenadiers frolicking about into flanking positions. Wounds are a bitch on them (especially given grave wounding's semi-random, bullshit 14-20 day out of action status from a light wound that got healed after), but that's why I tend to pack them with the flashbangs and mimic beacons as additional insurance also, and they're still not dead if wounded. I think of it sort of like fatigue more than anything. Would be nice if smoke grenades were not broken, but until that's fixed, there's aid that I get (essentially) for free during the times when I'm not likely to be using the medkit (if I need to give someone extra cover to have them avoid damage, medkits can wait until after I've dispatched a pod on a lot of missions). I do miss EU/EW 3-use dank smoke, but maybe that will be a future patch/DLC thing, or certainly probably someone will figure out how to mod them back in. Combat is basically an extra shot, and I can get those through other means--autoloaders, overwatches, etc. and save dealing major damage to enemies, robot or otherwise, with grenadiers/rangers/sharpshooters/psi ops. Medkits and restoration mean those guys are not dying, and if I really need high damage against robots, I can always haywire them and have them be their own worst enemy. Ninja edit: even if wounds do happen, AWC and rolling the heal perk at base in the worst case (construction or intel are usually preferrable, but the latter comes from missions often enough that I don't really need it either) mean they're negligible time off in later game/after really lovely missions like slog plot missions and VIP rescue/captures, I can always bolster my forces with psi ops given that they don't need to kill to get strong anymore, and can be a reliable source of non-injured high level troops that didn't have to go through missions where they took wounds to gain XP. Qtotonibudinibudet fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 04:23
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Ravenfood posted:You could also just hand them a medkit and they'd be almost as effective as a specialist with Aid Protocol at healing, while being more effective at guaranteed hits and good robot damage. Early on, a dead squaddie is $40 and 10 days in the GTS, and like you said, that's two hits from most enemies, one if its a very unlucky crit from specific enemies. If they take a hit, they're out for a long time anyhow, possibly longer than it'd take to train a new replacement. Can you afford to do this all the time? No, of course not, but if you're going all-in on offense, its less likely that they'll take multiple hits per mission. Play cautiously with wounded soldiers by all means, but if they're not risking a second hit by contributing to the fight, they're increasing the chance more people take hits and send you into a spiral losing the mission. This is why I've been saying that early medkits/medics don't make too much sense. Its a lot different with the extra item slot, extra health and some ranked troopers that are harder to replace however. I'd rather have a Captain laying in the AWC for a couple weeks than posted up on the memorial wall. Also running two later game specialists with guardian and threat assessment is loving bonkers.
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Mar 14, 2016 04:25
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Just bring 3 grenadiers and have medikits on the 3rd slot, problem solved.
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Mar 14, 2016 04:44
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Try playing all pods active without a medic
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Mar 14, 2016 04:49
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A lot of the debate seems to be at the point of the game where you want of nothing. If you can roll enough grenadiers to kill everything then by all means, do so, but the early game doesn't always work out like that and it's nice not to throw the towel in on 4-5 missions just because they didn't go perfectly. The other thing is grenades are not damage dealers, they just aren't strong enough. It takes 4 to guarantee a kill on a Sectoid, 3 on an officer or stun lancer. Yes you can roll 4 damage and reduce that, but it's not certain. Bullets are still needed in the early game.
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Mar 14, 2016 04:49
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Maluco Marinero posted:A lot of the debate seems to be at the point of the game where you want of nothing. If you can roll enough grenadiers to kill everything then by all means, do so, but the early game doesn't always work out like that and it's nice not to throw the towel in on 4-5 missions just because they didn't go perfectly. This is why you get plasma grenades as soon as possible.
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Mar 14, 2016 04:51
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The point of early grenade stacking is to give your squaddies shots that are over 60%. Plasma Grenades are gravy, but the only real reason to research them is for Advanced Explosives which just breaks the mid-game completely.
Radio fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 04:53
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Err...64bitrobot posted:This is why you get plasma grenades as soon as possible. Me, just then posted:A lot of the debate seems to be at the point of the game where you want of nothing. It takes a long rear end time to get proving grounds, the research, the AWC, done in Legendary.
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Mar 14, 2016 04:55
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Maluco Marinero posted:A lot of the debate seems to be at the point of the game where you want of nothing. If you can roll enough grenadiers to kill everything then by all means, do so, but the early game doesn't always work out like that and it's nice not to throw the towel in on 4-5 missions just because they didn't go perfectly.
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Mar 14, 2016 04:58
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Maluco Marinero posted:A lot of the debate seems to be at the point of the game where you want of nothing. If you can roll enough grenadiers to kill everything then by all means, do so, but the early game doesn't always work out like that and it's nice not to throw the towel in on 4-5 missions just because they didn't go perfectly. I only care about people dying in the late game. If some squaddie dies it doesn't matter much. If you kill a trooper that's with the sectoid, the sectoid is just going to raise a psi zombie so 1 turn killing sectoids are pretty low priority honestly. Early game I run 2 grenadiers and 2 rangers, remove cover with the grenades and blast away with the rangers and everything dies.
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Mar 14, 2016 04:58
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On Gangplank the already active cyberdisk just sauntered through a door and crit my sniper for 13 damage. Rip. 
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Mar 14, 2016 05:03
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Revival protocol breaks unconscious, panic, and disorient, 100% of the time, and they are all things that cripple your chances of victory. If someone is bleeding out, they can be stabilized, and revived, and your chances of that being the only casualty are so much greater. Haywire protocol at that point has a low hacking score, where the risk is one or more people getting rocketed or worse shot by an armored unit that has an extra layer of effective cover and aim.
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Mar 14, 2016 05:09
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This looks neat https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=645085554 Ties enemy force composition to Avatar progress. I not sure well it plays with Avatar Project Reworked or All Aliens in All Missions though.
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Mar 14, 2016 05:43
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TheParadigm posted:Moving at the speed of death!
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Mar 14, 2016 06:02
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WarLocke posted:Oh my lord so apparently Repeaters can proc off of Stock damage
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Mar 14, 2016 06:08
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Mimic Beacons are supposed to cost 100 Supplies and 3 Faceless corpses, right? My brand new Legendary Ironman campaign, started after the patch, says they still cost 75 Supplies and 2 corpses. This is vanilla with absolutely no mods toggled. What gives?
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Mar 14, 2016 06:11
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Olive Branch posted:Mimic Beacons are supposed to cost 100 Supplies and 3 Faceless corpses, right? My brand new Legendary Ironman campaign, started after the patch, says they still cost 75 Supplies and 2 corpses. This is vanilla with absolutely no mods toggled. What gives? The patch notes didn't match the version they released. That change hasn't gone in yet. On the bright side, Saturation fire got fixed!
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Mar 14, 2016 06:13
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Vib Rib posted:This is why I never put a repeater on a weapon that doesn't have a stock. Going from 5-15% of your hits killing to 5-15% of your shots killing, hit or miss, is an incredible change. Yeah, that said though, once you get further on to Colonel maybe aim stacking is better, I probably should've experimented more last game when I had the swap PCS/Addon. Guardian can be bananas with the right rolls.
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Mar 14, 2016 06:38
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After a few ups and downs, my current ironman commander run has been going great for quite a while. My last death occurred during a massive clusterfuck of a "Neutralize the VIP mission." The VIP was in a building, and it was also the first mission to feature Andromedons. I managed to get to the VIP while remaining concealed, until a pod of two codices and an andromedon either glitches through a wall or someone was standing in the exact wrong 1-tile wide space to attract them. The codexes moved to somewhere I couldn't see, so I focuses on the andromedon. It died, but I couldn't kill the shell at the end of the turn, so I shut it down with haywire. Then most of my guys were hit by a rift. Opening the door between us and the exit activated another pod with mecs and another andromendon, and reinforcements came the same turn. Somehow, we made it out with only one death, a ranger squaddie, though everyone was badly wounded. I grenades the VIP to take out one of the pursuing enemies as everyone made a mad dash, but I might have been able to carry him out. From then on, there were no deaths. I did have two failed "Protect the Device" missions, though. One had the device get set on fire early, so that sucked, and the other I just took too long as the Gatekeeper shooting it was far away and hidden behind buildings. My roster was kind of brittle for a while, but I'm at the point where I feel comfortable taking lower-ranked guys along. I've gotten some great AWC perks. My MVPs are two grenadiers, one with Deep Cover (meh) and one with serial(!). Activating serial seems to make her twice as likely to miss her first shot. I have a sniper with rupture, as I mentioned in a previous post, but he isn't a colonel yet. I have support with shred, one with rapid fire, and one with shadow step. I have a blade master with chain shot, which is just a worse version of rapid fire, so gave her Reaper so it's still kind of like she has both top tier talents. All I have left to do is the Forge. I might level my rupture gunslinger too as well as my two psi operatives. I didn't get a psi lab up until it was pretty late. Once I actually get to the final mission, I can just keep retrying it until I win, right? I've had two failed ironman runs, one which ended with rookies and squaddies defending the Avenger, and it said I could retry.
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Mar 14, 2016 06:49
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