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Since I am a corporate attorney, I don't usually have to deal with the minutiae of service of process rules. However, I find myself dealing with the minutiae right now; and, of course, the defendant is impossible to find. After doing some research, I think Florida might have one of the strangest substituted service provisions in the US: Most of the statute is perfectly normal until you get to this part: Fla.Stat. 48.031(6) posted:If the only address for a person to be served, which is discoverable through public records, is a private mailbox, substitute service may be made by leaving a copy of the process with the person in charge of the private mailbox, but only if the process server determines that the person to be served maintains a mailbox at that location. I'm rather puzzled. Are there Florida attorneys here that have used this method of service? Does any other state allow substitute service on the "person in charge of" a private mailbox? That statutory provision isn't talked about in any of the Florida practice guides I've seen. It just doesn't seem...I don't know...to be "due process." It's not like the guy "in charge of" the "private mailbox" getting served has any listed obligation to even mention the service to the guy who is actually getting sued. Now, granted - you've got to go through quite a bit of due diligence to get to the point where this provision is relevant; but still it seems crazy. And I apologize for posting about CivPro for those who might be triggered right now.
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Mar 12, 2016 00:51
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Google says California has a similar provision. Surely Florida has some case law on the statute?
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Mar 12, 2016 01:21
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joat mon posted:Surely Florida has some case law on the statute? It absolutely must, right?
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Mar 12, 2016 01:37
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I mean, IANAL but I googled florida serve process private mailbox and found a case that talks about service on a private mailbox. McDaniel v. Firstbank Puerto Rico That case the substitute process to the mailbox provider was invalid but only because they served process at the mailbox center instead of at the defendants home. Their address was publicly listed, so they failed to meet the requirement that the mailbox service be the only publicly available address. If you've done your due diligence and the mailbox is the only publicly available address, then substitute service is absolutely fine leaving it with the guy in charge of the box. Basically the courts down here adhere strictly to the service statute. The substitute service at the mailbox is done to prevent a potential defendant from hiding behind a PO box. I'm sure there's also some contractual duty or something on the owner of the mailbox place to notify someone when they receive service. Mr. Nice! fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Mar 12, 2016 |
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Mar 12, 2016 02:43
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It's very common for people to rent out private mailboxes and then abandon them, I've worked in collections and we get refused mail from those places all the time. The business probably doesn't have any information other than "that guy stopped paying for his mailbox six months ago." This is relatively tame, there are people who go to extreme lengths to dodge bill collectors and process servers.
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Mar 12, 2016 10:06
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If he stopped paying for it months ago then service would probably be ineffective because part of the statute requires that the server verify he has an actual mailbox at the place. If it isn't current he doesn't have a box.
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Mar 12, 2016 12:28
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If there's enough at stake, private investigators can and do serve process. Costs more, but they have their ways. There's also no rule against serving process at multiple locations. It can be messy, but one of those services might be effective.
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Mar 12, 2016 16:24
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It's kind of amazing how much the courts are ok with dodging service. In Illinois there's a statue for serving notice in evictions that's a precondition to the complaint, and it's actually impossible to do without the defendant agreeing to accept it. I really want to rent the finest airbnb downtown and then just dodge forever.
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Mar 12, 2016 16:26
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joat mon posted:
It lasted about 5 hours when it should have lasted 2-3 (pretty typical for depositions requiring translation) and we had some technical issues we worked through, but considering the logistics it was pretty impressive.
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Mar 12, 2016 21:34
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Does BigLaw ever get better? 2nd year and Im tired.
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Mar 14, 2016 05:03
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Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Jul 13, 2021 |
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Mar 14, 2016 05:27
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Sab0921 posted:Does BigLaw ever get better? 2nd year and Im tired. Yes, when you use that job on your resume to get a sweet government job and rediscover weekends. (Also, loans gone in 10 years.)
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Mar 14, 2016 05:35
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nm posted:Yes, when you use that job on your resume to get a sweet government job and rediscover weekends. (Also, loans gone in 10 years.) The only point of big law is loans gone in like 3 years. this $3000 a month better be doing something.
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Mar 14, 2016 05:44
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Sab0921 posted:The only point of big law is loans gone in like 3 years. this $3000 a month better be doing something. Also pensions and vacations you're expected to use. I get like 5-6 weeks of vacation with one week mandatory vacation. It is pretty sweet. I turned down probably $40k more per year for this job, and I don't regret it. You can't enjoy money if you don't have time to spend it on cool poo poo. (Rent and leased cars are not cool poo poo)
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Mar 14, 2016 05:50
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nm posted:Sanity is worth something. When I started law school, I did it with the promise of a job in a minor local governmental office. I was seduced, and regret my decision every single day. I don't even get the cool leased car because of loans, and drive an 11 year old toyota 
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Mar 14, 2016 06:08
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Sab0921 posted:Does BigLaw ever get better? 2nd year and Im tired.
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Mar 14, 2016 10:47
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Case before mine is a guy trying to terminate his parental rights to adult children. It's not going well for him. Edit: still going... Roger_Mudd fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 16:32
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joat mon posted:Google says California has a similar provision. Surely Florida has some case law on the statute? It does; and the rule is surprisingly clear. The two-prong test is that the private mailbox has to be the only address discoverable through public records, and that the person serving the process must determine that the party to be served actually does maintain a mailbox there. The 'only address' part is the only one of the two that I could ever find any controversy on, and the 'public records' part of that prong is really cut & dry, especially in my case where I'm dealing with an internet-based company that doesn't have a real office. In a similar scenario, it's highly likely that you are likely to only be able to discover the business' state-registered address via public records. Since I never really have to deal with civil procedure, I kind of find it fascinating. It almost makes me want to leave the Corporate world and go into private practice. Almost.
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Mar 14, 2016 22:04
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Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Jul 13, 2021 |
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Mar 14, 2016 22:53
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Discendo Vox posted:Lawgoons, how much do you deal with conflict of laws in your day to day practice? i have a general belief that it is a thing that exists because i was told that in law school but have never seen evidence of it since
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Mar 14, 2016 23:02
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Discendo Vox posted:Lawgoons, how much do you deal with conflict of laws in your day to day practice? Not much. However, our state law basically conflicts with itself, which is fun.
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Mar 14, 2016 23:05
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nm posted:Not much. The takeaway I got from law school was judges can just do whatever
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Mar 14, 2016 23:35
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Discendo Vox posted:Lawgoons, how much do you deal with conflict of laws in your day to day practice? I'm not even sure what it means anymore. Please cite me in your dissertation.
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Mar 14, 2016 23:43
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Discendo Vox posted:Lawgoons, how much do you deal with conflict of laws in your day to day practice? Every once in a while a contract has a choice of laws provision, and that means I have to change my default Westlaw jurisdiction. Does that count? Usually it makes me grumpy. If I got grumpy enough I guess I could go out there and make a choice of laws argument to make the bad state stop touching me...
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Mar 15, 2016 01:29
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evilweasel posted:i have a general belief that it is a thing that exists because i was told that in law school but have never seen evidence of it since We had a workers comp file where the insurance contract required us to go to an international arbitration panel in Paris if we wanted to dispute over a $90k claim. The arbitration would have cost more than 90k, so we just threatened to go to court over the clause and they folded. That's the closest I have seen.
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Mar 15, 2016 01:40
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All I remember about conflicts of law is it's the only thing more useless than international law.
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Mar 15, 2016 01:45
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My dream is to specialize in conflict of international laws
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Mar 15, 2016 02:30
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Sab0921 posted:Does BigLaw ever get better? 2nd year and Im tired. Maybe when you bring in business
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Mar 15, 2016 03:29
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Discendo Vox posted:Lawgoons, how much do you deal with conflict of laws in your day to day practice? Twice in the last 5 years.
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Mar 15, 2016 03:32
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Tokelau All Star posted:My dream is to specialize in conflict of international laws War.
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Mar 15, 2016 03:41
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So I got a formal notice today back from the school's code official that the school's decision to axe all hot water was wrong and never right but some places that were permitted previously will not have to be refitted with hot water. I basically torpedoed an energy conservation policy because I had the gall to ask "hey, is this even legal?" I was apparently one of the only people that ever asked because this has been in place for at least 4-5 years.
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Mar 15, 2016 03:54
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You still on track to graduate then move your taco truck to Austin?
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Mar 15, 2016 04:00
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Discendo Vox posted:Lawgoons, how much do you deal with conflict of laws in your day to day practice? Pretty regularly. Dealt with it even more often as a clerk. Doesn't come up in every case but matters a lot when it does. Edit: in the past two weeks, I wrote memos or drafted motions on abstention, conflict of law issues, extraterritorial application of state/fed law, retroactive application of a statute, and some weird Chevron issues. Fed courts and conflict of laws have actually been super helpful. It's hard to pick that poo poo up on the fly. I also love civil procedure, so maybe I self-select for this stuff. Omerta fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 04:38
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Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Jul 13, 2021 |
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Mar 15, 2016 04:45
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Discendo Vox posted:Interesting contrast with others in the thread (aside from it being important when it comes up, that's kinda a given). What's your area, again? Labor and employment. I do a quite a bit of non-compete work, so there's a lot of procedural gaming and effort to get the suit in a more favorable jurisdiction (like one that will disregard a choice of law provision). It's also related to the jurisdiction I'm in. Georgia used to be as hard as non-competes as California, so people would move to Georgia and file a declaratory judgment action. Still happens for older non-competes. I had this come up in a case I worked on less than a month ago.
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Mar 15, 2016 04:51
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:You still on track to graduate then move your taco truck to Austin? I don't think I'll ever move this truck anywhere else. I've just about got it sufficient without me. Once it's bringing in enough money that I can pay a payroll company and someone else to handle taxes I'll just be able to sit back and collect checks. Might I move to austin later? I dunno. Depends on where life takes me.
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Mar 15, 2016 05:38
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I practice in Canada and deal with conflict of laws a fair bit. Mostly inter-provincial issues, but occasionally foreign stuff as well.
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Mar 15, 2016 15:11
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Sab0921 posted:Does BigLaw ever get better? 2nd year and Im tired. gvibes fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Jan 4, 2018 |
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Mar 15, 2016 16:14
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Sab0921 posted:Does BigLaw ever get better? 2nd year and Im tired. lol no, it actually gets worse. 4th year and its worse than its ever been and I'm gazing longingly at my window, really upset that they can't be opened.
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Mar 15, 2016 19:01
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I hit the high point of my career yesterday when I found out that because my wife had a kid my unemployment benefit goes up about 1/3 over the prior cap. 
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Mar 15, 2016 19:24
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