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jivjov posted:I'll be pleased as punch if everything ties up nicely by the end of Tri's run...but I can only currently judge what's been released this far, and in my opinion the 02 stuff has been deliberately de-emphasized in favor of Adventure stuff. The thing is that I wouldn't say the 02 stuff has been de-emphasized, rather it's been deliberately obfuscated. In fact, on the contrary after what happened in Tri 2 I think 02 is actually being deliberately emphasized, they're just being annoyingly coy about it and how 02 fits into the story. Remember that a big part of the marketing for Tri 2 was "Hey what's going on with Ken and Imperialdramon?" And hell, I think 02 was being emphasized even in Tri 1, besides the overt callbacks I remember the scene with Taichi and Yamato on the ferris wheel where the dramatic punchline of the conversation was a shot that was lingering on the island where Omegamon crashed during the finale of movie 4. So the more I think on Tri the more I think the story is actually going to have a lot to do with the 02 cast. I just hope the eventual reveal is satisfying, I'd hate to get the sense they were taking a swipe at the 02 cast just because 02 is unpopular in the fandom. I'll say it again, it wasn't the fault of Daisuke et. al. that everything came apart in their show. I was hoping that Tri would attempt to salvage their characters. I still kind of do.
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Mar 16, 2016 07:18
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quote:Why would the market towards the less successful season??? The same reason you hear more about Mobile Suit Gundam more than Zeta Gundam despite the former having worse ratings. "First Installment syndrome."
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Mar 16, 2016 07:20
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Ratings from time of airing almost certainly are not indicative of perception decades removed from when they were recorded. And they are definitely not indicative of a product's actual quality.
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Mar 16, 2016 07:25
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Pretty sure I saw the ratings back when I was younger and they went down during 02 compared to 01. It's also a complete and total fact that more people in Japan know of 01 than 02. Butterfly is a pretty much a staple at karaoke whereas Target's unheard of, and your average person would be hard pressed to name someone like Daisuke or Ken as opposed to Taichi or Yamato. Hitlersaurus Christ fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Mar 16, 2016 |
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Mar 16, 2016 07:27
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mikeycp posted:Ratings from time of airing almost certainly are not indicative of perception decades removed from when they were recorded. And they are definitely not indicative of a product's actual quality. This very much. Ratings are a good encapsulation of the show's popularity at the time, but not necessarily of how well the show has held up or even what the fandom thinks of it. 02 got good ratings, but 02 is not remembered fondly by fans and Tri is aiming itself at fans. Comparisons to Gundam are actually apropos considering that Gundam SEED DESTINY got stellar ratings and is widely reviled by Gundam fans on both sides of the ocean.
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Mar 16, 2016 07:32
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Omnicrom posted:This very much. Ratings are a good encapsulation of the show's popularity at the time, but not necessarily of how well the show has held up or even what the fandom thinks of it. 02 got good ratings, but 02 is not remembered fondly by fans and Tri is aiming itself at fans. Comparisons to Gundam are actually apropos considering that Gundam SEED DESTINY got stellar ratings and is widely reviled by Gundam fans on both sides of the ocean. Not to mention shows that are popular/beloved among fans but got absolute garbo for ratings.
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Mar 16, 2016 07:34
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Omnicrom posted:I remember the scene with Taichi and Yamato on the ferris wheel where the dramatic punchline of the conversation was a shot that was lingering on the island where Omegamon crashed during the finale of movie 4. That's a reference that was lost on me, actually! Movie 4 is the one I've seen the least; I had a postage-stamp sized RealMediaPlayer version of it back in the day. With mostly nonexistent subtitles.
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Mar 16, 2016 07:37
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http://withthewill.net/archive/index.php/t-675.html I'm gonna have to eat some crow on this one. I've clearly been getting some bad information, but 02 and Adventure's ratings are more similar rather than higher or lower. There's less in the top 10, but the actual NUMBERS are in the same range. That's still far FAR from a huge drop/absolute flop. Other important details like the demographics and just WHO was watching are unclear for both seasons, because I'm pretty sure Tamers had some issues with reaching kids by the end of its series. But honestly, if 02 were "reviled", it still wouldn't get merchandise. We wouldn't be getting the new D-3 being released with the same overall fanfare as the Digivice Ver. 15th. I also keep seeing material for it in various fan circles. Furthermore, aspects of it wouldn't even be in Tri. AT ALL if that were the case either. I'm gonna apologize for speaking based on poor research but I'm gonna stand by my overall point that it wasn't a failure. (man, if you want a disaster, look at friggin Xros Wars.)
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Mar 16, 2016 07:44
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Nobody said it was a failure. You are making a huge stink about literally nothing. And to reiterate, ratings mean almost nothing this far our from date-of-airing.
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Mar 16, 2016 07:51
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Man who the gently caress cares
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Mar 16, 2016 07:51
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The REAL Goobusters posted:Man who the gently caress cares Also this
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Mar 16, 2016 07:51
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I'd rather be honest and admit I made a mistake than pretend it didn't happen. Think what you want. We'll see what happens with the show I guess.
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Mar 16, 2016 07:52
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You're fine dude. Yeah that lines up with what I looked into years ago, just didn't really care to look back into it. And yeah- Adventure 02 is not the worst thing to happen to Digimon. There has been much, much worse. The Epilogue is one of the things that I think needs to be addressed, but we'll see what happens. I'm not shocked that it still gets merch just because it's in that sweet spot for a lot of people. Like, even if you don't like season 2, you might like the D-3 or what have you. I know that I, personally, had a green D-3 as a kid. If I was in a situation where I COULD grab a new one, I'd honestly be tempted just because of that. And no one is arguing that Tri is erasing season 2 so don't worry about that. They ARE doing something odd with it, but that's clearly intentional and going t obe a major plot point as the movies go on. We've got 4 more movies, that's a lot of material to work with. Considering it doesn't seem like Patamon is going to get his Mega level next time, I have a feeling we're going to be breaking away from the formula with the future movies. The next one is the half way point after all.
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Mar 16, 2016 07:52
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Just saw Determination. Man, that got loving brutal at the end. Poor Leomon. Dead in the human world is a bad fate. Also, the big ultimate evolution thing could have been done a little better. It was a little too compressed, but I get why they did it that way: the show has always been more about the character's personal growth than the action. That loving heel turn, btw. I though Mei might have been behind it, but drat. Also, anyone else see that smirk on Himi-whateverhernameis' face when Mei went loving Jason Vorhes on Leomon? There is clearly some poo poo going on there. So, if all the 02 guys have been turned evil, doesn't that mean a lot of them are a lot smaller of a threat since they can't even go Ultimate/Perfect without Hikari and T.K? I think my main issue with the series is that cutting what was clearly meant to be a 1:30 movie into four parts fucks with the pacing. Even if you watch them back to back, it's noticeable. It should just be put out as one movie in the west, as I'm sure it was in the East. I guess they had their reasons. Quicker to release in chunks? The boob jiggle on Rosemon was really unnecessary. How many more movies are we going to get out of Tri?
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Mar 16, 2016 08:00
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There are four more.
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Mar 16, 2016 08:01
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TFRazorsaw posted:There are four more. Six total? Alright.
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Mar 16, 2016 08:11
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Speaking of merchandising I'm reminded of Gundam again. After Gundam SEED ended there was a survey of fan opinions on it, and the Gundam fans surveyed almost universally disliked it. Interestingly a plurality of those fans, even those who reported hating SEED, also reported buying merchandise of SEED, be it model kits or posters or keyfobs or DVDs or what have you. This is one of the odd aspects of fandom: even those things treated as pariah by the fandom will earn money from the fandom that hates it. Fans like us are kind of weird, and fandom on the whole even weirder.
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Mar 16, 2016 08:54
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Hitlersaurus Christ posted:It'd be rad if it was just a huge fuckin dinosaur and not part of some kind of group. What if he was starting a new group of huge fuckin dinosaurs?
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Mar 16, 2016 08:56
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By the way, has every season so far introduced a new version/evolution of Greymon? It feels that way.
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Mar 16, 2016 08:57
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Covok posted:By the way, has every season so far introduced a new version/evolution of Greymon? It feels that way. Well Tamers didn't as far as I know, so no
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Mar 16, 2016 09:01
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Omnicrom posted:Speaking of merchandising I'm reminded of Gundam again. After Gundam SEED ended there was a survey of fan opinions on it, and the Gundam fans surveyed almost universally disliked it. Interestingly a plurality of those fans, even those who reported hating SEED, also reported buying merchandise of SEED, be it model kits or posters or keyfobs or DVDs or what have you. This is one of the odd aspects of fandom: even those things treated as pariah by the fandom will earn money from the fandom that hates it. Fans like us are kind of weird, and fandom on the whole even weirder. I chalk that up to the suit design for SEED being generally liked, and that's what's actually important when it comes to Gundam. Some people also like the singular character design too, for whatever reason.
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Mar 16, 2016 09:05
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drrockso20 posted:Well Tamers didn't as far as I know, so no Well, Guilmon was just Takato's OC Do Not Steal based off of Agumon, does that count?
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Mar 16, 2016 09:06
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mikeycp posted:I chalk that up to the suit design for SEED being generally liked, and that's what's actually important when it comes to Gundam. Some people also like the singular character design too, for whatever reason. I would actually be in the market for that RE:02. I do not like 02. But I like a lot of the Digimon introduced in 02 design wise. I will always try to get a Veemon in games, Stingmon is rad as gently caress. Most of the armor evolution's are rad as gently caress. So even if I don't like the show, which I don't, I still like most of the introduced Digimon.
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Mar 16, 2016 09:14
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If we're counting Guilmon as a Greymon you might as well count Shoutmon because he's voiced by Chika Sakamoto.
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Mar 16, 2016 09:30
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This idea that ratings is at all equivalent with fandom popularity is crap. Example: Power Rangers peaked in it's second season as both a cultural workhorse and toy phenomenon. The season premiere debuted in motherfucking prime time, but it's widely regarded today as an All About Tommy season that's rather boring. Contrast how relatively nobody watched Time Force, but it's the darling of fandom.
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Mar 16, 2016 09:36
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Craptacular! posted:This idea that ratings is at all equivalent with fandom popularity is crap. Ditto for Go-Busters, which BOMBED in ratings and toy sales, but AFAIK is well liked by fans. Onmi posted:I would actually be in the market for that RE:02. I do not like 02. But I like a lot of the Digimon introduced in 02 design wise. I will always try to get a Veemon in games, Stingmon is rad as gently caress. Most of the armor evolution's are rad as gently caress. So even if I don't like the show, which I don't, I still like most of the introduced Digimon. 02 has lots of cool designs. I like how the D3 looks, too. I was super psyched to get one as a kid, even though I was lukewarm on the series.
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Mar 16, 2016 09:51
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And which is on shelves now, a Legacy Thunder Megazord or Time Force Megazord? Mighty Morphin Green Ranger merch is followed only by MMPR Red and White. There's a kernel of truth to what you said, but there's also a discrepancy between what fandom tends to build up/rag on verses what actually sells or was successful for them, even many years later. I'm not saying fandom esteem isn't important but it DOES create a kind of myopia that's hard to see past.
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Mar 16, 2016 09:54
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The texture on the digivolution ring was missing in reunion. Wouldn't have noticed if it wasn't in Determination. That's messy.
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Mar 16, 2016 10:03
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TFRazorsaw posted:And which is on shelves now, a Legacy Thunder Megazord or Time Force Megazord? Mighty Morphin Green Ranger merch is followed only by MMPR Red and White. The idea that this equates with popular support for a specific season of a thing is true when you're talking about a long-running established franchise like Gundam or Transformers. At least as far as I know, Digimon has been dormant for a while. Likewise, that they can sell some old MMPR merch doesn't mean that people want next year's reboot to feature the odd mix of 1990s political correctness with 1990s cultural naivete that the original show had. Aside from that, making creative decisions based on the whims of merchandising is generally a bad idea, and leads to things like a motorcycle knocking out the most powerful doomsday device in a 20 year canon (Don't. Ask.) Even popular things have missteps, and reviving something is a chance to at least fix missteps or at the very least ignore them. Nobody wants to see a second chance show up just to make excuses for the thing that happened before it. All that does is make people go "ugh, I almost forgot [the thing]."
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Mar 16, 2016 11:20
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I'm sure they'll explain the astronaut Yamato by his desire to Knife the Moon. Only to miss entirely and become Knife on Mars which due to radio waves is only now getting Teenage Wolves music, making him a celebrity with all the martians.
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Mar 16, 2016 11:43
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Craptacular! posted:The idea that this equates with popular support for a specific season of a thing is true when you're talking about a long-running established franchise like Gundam or Transformers. At least as far as I know, Digimon has been dormant for a while. Likewise, that they can sell some old MMPR merch doesn't mean that people want next year's reboot to feature the odd mix of 1990s political correctness with 1990s cultural naivete that the original show had. Aside from that, making creative decisions based on the whims of merchandising is generally a bad idea, and leads to things like a motorcycle knocking out the most powerful doomsday device in a 20 year canon (Don't. Ask.) It took me a second to figure out the motorcycle incident you were referring to. Man, that was stupid even for a lazy fanservice episode. Geostomp fucked around with this message at 12:06 on Mar 16, 2016 |
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Mar 16, 2016 12:04
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Covok posted:The texture on the digivolution ring was missing in reunion. Wouldn't have noticed if it wasn't in Determination. That's messy. It wasn't missing per-se, the ring was completely different between both movies. In Reunion it was this ugly green mess that only really looked like a ring from one angle. In Determination it was changed to a much better looking golden ring with "EVOLUTION" written in it in several languages, and spewing code everywhere. I have to wonder if they got reactions to Reunion and they included "evolution could look better" or something, hence the change. It's such a minor change and yet it's a big deal to change evolution sequences in Digimon, so it's weird.
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Mar 16, 2016 15:01
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Covok posted:Just saw Determination. Man, that got loving brutal at the end. Poor Leomon. Dead in the human world is a bad fate. Himekawa is most definitely behind this poo poo. She just happens to leave meicoomon behind alone?
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Mar 16, 2016 15:28
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Covok posted:I think my main issue with the series is that cutting what was clearly meant to be a 1:30 movie into four parts fucks with the pacing. Even if you watch them back to back, it's noticeable. It should just be put out as one movie in the west, as I'm sure it was in the East. I guess they had their reasons. Quicker to release in chunks? Yeah; in Japan these are just released as films. I guess Crunchyroll or somebody involved in distribution thought that Americans wouldn't watch it if it wasn't (artificially) cut into episodes. The one upside is getting to hear Butterfly a bit more... jivjov fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Mar 16, 2016 |
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Mar 16, 2016 15:56
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My Digimon hot take: I have always loved Ken's doofy Emperor getup and like that we got an older version.
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Mar 16, 2016 16:18
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Blaze Dragon posted:
The "No Calling Their Attacks" is 99% a case of this. I'm glad they addressed it, but too bad they didn't fix this in Reunion's Blu ray release. Also are we sure that what we saw at the end of ova 2 was Meikoomon Digivolving? Because her appearance changes very little if at all. Maybe side evolution? lezard_valeth fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Mar 16, 2016 |
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Mar 16, 2016 16:38
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I'm partially down for Meicomon not actually being a digimon per se (maybe an artificially created one) and thus this evolution is closer to a mutation than a proper Perfect Evolution. Rodyle posted:My Digimon hot take: I have always loved Ken's doofy Emperor getup and like that we got an older version. I always thought it was too silly, specially the hair. Tri's version looks pretty slick and cool even.
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Mar 16, 2016 16:48
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TFRazorsaw posted:And which is on shelves now, a Legacy Thunder Megazord or Time Force Megazord? Mighty Morphin Green Ranger merch is followed only by MMPR Red and White. Er, Fandom is the entire reason why the Legacy line is what it is. I hate doing this because I'm not trying to dog pile or pick a fight, but you might not know this. I do because I am a GIANT POWER RANGER FAN and have been from the get go. Tommy is RIDICULOUSLY popular, to this day, and MMPR rules the school for fan favorite designs to this day. We know this for a fact because of a massive popularity contest they held last year, where the individual Zords were pitted against each other, almost ALL of them, and the end result was http://www.megazordmadness.com/#!/start-voting Dragonzord, Tiger Zord, Titanus, and the Thunder Red Dragon Zord. Oh and the SPD base zord. That is insane but also speaks to how they've treated the Legacy line. The big reason we got the Thunder Megazord was because it was next in line. And only after we had already gotten all of the MMPR zords, got them rereleased, AND got the Tiger Zord. We had the Tiger Zord for months before the Thunder Megazord. If the line remains successful, that's exactly how it's going to continue working out. They're going to keep going down the line and not jumping around. The most jumping they did was to bring in the actually popular Tiger Zord FIRST, but only after all of the season 1 mechs. Which is a huge reason why I'm not too sure that the new D3 realistically means anything. Hopefully it does, but we could just as likely see a .... D Arc? That was the Tamer one right? a D-Arc the same time next year.
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Mar 16, 2016 17:15
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ArmyOfMidgets posted:I always thought it was too silly, specially the hair. Tri's version looks pretty slick and cool even. Agreed, but I always hated that little poo poo. The highlight of season two was T.K. punching the gently caress out of him.
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Mar 16, 2016 17:40
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ArmyOfMidgets posted:I'm partially down for Meicomon not actually being a digimon per se (maybe an artificially created one) and thus this evolution is closer to a mutation than a proper Perfect Evolution. I just figured that was Mei's proper Champion power level, considering she did absolutely nothing to fellow champion Ogremon.
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Mar 16, 2016 17:50
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