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Andrast posted:Rothfuss would probably get his book out faster if he spent less time arguing about Nintendo account systems. I'm sure Nintendo account systems will feature heavily in Doors of Stone.
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Mar 10, 2016 21:28
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Groovelord Neato posted:have you REALLY read these books 10 times? holy poo poo. He made it 11 just to spite me for asking "Why can't you read something new?" ex: I read White Tiger 8 years ago, but I still remember some very vivid scenes from that book that made me think "Wow, this is brutal and there's no "good" way out" and coming away from it with a snapshot of what it can take for people who manage to escape crushing poverty and make it. Rothfuss has no emotionally resonant scenes in his books, and people might argue that fantasy can't evoke the same emotional response as a "true to life" fictional novel, but why can't it? As far as I'm concerned, growing up in middle class America makes India's caste system and insane corruption not much more relate-able to me then a fictional world renaissance world with magic. Even for the "dark" moments in the books there's never any sense of Kvothe undergoing any fundamental change or loss. He's still forever and always the same smug quick witted young genius who never faces major repercussions and when a character shows literally no growth in 1000+ pages beyond "is now a expert sex-haver, learned insane ninja skills, better at magic" why the gently caress should anyone care one bit about whatever troubles may hit him 1-2 books later? pentyne fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Mar 10, 2016 |
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Mar 10, 2016 23:10
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There is one legitimately good bit in TNoTW, and that is when Rothfuss jumps off the roof trying to learn the name of the wind and breaks his legs.
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Mar 11, 2016 09:07
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How can you possibly say that a series that features mythically awesome screwing has no emotionally resonant scenes? I resonate down there whenever I read about it!BananaNutkins posted:There is one legitimately good bit in TNoTW, and that is when Rothfuss jumps off the roof trying to learn the name of the wind and breaks his legs. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Mar 11, 2016 |
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Mar 11, 2016 12:22
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BananaNutkins posted:There is one legitimately good bit in TNoTW, and that is when Rothfuss jumps off the roof trying to learn the name of the wind and breaks his legs. The actual playing the sad song for his Talents was also a good scene, but then ruined by ~*Denna*~ showing up soon afterword and needing so long (a chapter and a half) to describe a beautiful, dark-haired girl that I invented details about her and had so long to visualize those details that by the end I had guessed wrong but tough poo poo I'm not reading that through again.
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Mar 13, 2016 02:51
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Rothfuss is a stupid man's idea of what a smart author looks like.
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Mar 13, 2016 04:05
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Rothfuss is a videogamers idea of what a smart author looks like
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Mar 13, 2016 07:40
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Rothfuss is a fanfiction reader of what a smart author looks like
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Mar 13, 2016 08:47
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Rothfuss is fine and a lot of people like his good fantasy books.
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Mar 15, 2016 19:06
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Cast Iron Brick posted:Rothfuss is fine and a lot of people like his good fantasy books. BOOOOO! HISSSSSSSS! Stay out the Rothfuss thread you!
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Mar 15, 2016 19:29
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Cast Iron Brick posted:Rothfuss is fine and a lot of people like his good fantasy books. congratulations on having a Good Opinion probably don't wave it around too much though this is a dangerous bit of town
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Mar 15, 2016 19:42
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Cast Iron Brick posted:Rothfuss is fine and a lot of people like his good fantasy books. Same but NYT best seller Terry Goodkind.
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Mar 15, 2016 19:47
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Fine? Let's see here: LET’S READ THE KINGKILLER CHRONICLE CRITICALLY Part 15: “I had changed because of Tarbean.” In Chapter 33, “Sea of Stars,” Kvothe sets out on his journey to the University on a wagon caravan. quote:I returned to Drover's Lot with a travelsack swinging by one shoulder. It held a change of clothes, a loaf of trail bread, some jerked meat, a skin of water, needle and thread, flint and steel, pens and ink. In short, everything an intelligent person takes on a trip in the event they might need it. Now I haven’t mentioned it much, but Kvothe’s defining characteristic is being cheeky. It doesn’t really follow from what’s come before; as a child he was more nosy than assertive, and his Tarbean years were a period of extreme self-repression. So where does Kvothe’s assertiveness come from? It’s a huge gap in characterization. Because of this confused sense of interiority, I don’t find Kvothe’s particular brand of cheekiness and the journalistic style of narration to blend well together. Kvothe feels the need to reassure that the he is an intelligent person. But we’re not supposed to read this as irony, as the text asserts repeatedly that Kvothe is an intelligent hero and not an insecure idiot who needs to pat himself on the back. quote:That left the other passenger, Denna. We didn’t speak until the first day’s ride was nearly done. I was riding with one of the mercenaries, absently peeling the bark from a willow switch. While my fingers worked, I studied the side of her face, admiring the line of her jaw, the curve of her neck into her shoulder. I wondered why she was traveling alone, and where she was going. In the middle of my musing she turned to look in my direction and caught me staring at her. Kvothe is being rehabilitated into society in record time, and this includes his romantic instinct! quote:On the edge of the water were a pair of waystones, their surfaces silver against the black of the sky, the black of the water. One stood upright, a finger pointing to the sky. The other lay flat, extending into the water like a short stone pier. I’m reminded of another book with the same problem, Assassin’s Apprentice by Robin Hobb. In both books, the protagonist has to be both hardened by life and a regular teenager. Instead of elaborating on this duality, the result is utter confusion of characterization. In Assassin’s Apprentice, the narrative is interested in court intrigue and sorcery mostly as a way to poo poo on the main character, instead of exploring what it is to be like a child pressured into being a political assassin for aristocrats. In Name of the Wind, there’s little commentary on how Kvothe’s mental training, years on the streets, and impossible quest are impacting his relationships with other people. Now there will be some in the next chapter, mainly to reassure us that they’re not impacting the story too much. There’s been a lot of grumbling about Denna. There’s nothing wrong with her and Kvothe’s relationship here, except how it develops and how it doesn’t make that much sense here for the reasons stated above. This is as much as their relationship will ever develop, a girl just kind of wandering around and a boy’s object of fantasy. The imagery emphasises that they’re both lonely souls wandering in a vast world (coming short of calling them ships passing in the night), but this is again something that is never developed. What is developed is that she forever keep suitors men at a distance while profiting from them to make a living. So her whole character is about being an unattainable object. You may call this misogynistic, I’m more wondering why she has such a large role in the story in the first place. Is her unattainability an extension of Kvothe’s quest for the impossible? In Chapter 34, “Yet to Learn,” a young nobleman joins the caravan and earns Kvothe’s ire. quote:His name was Josn, and he had paid Roent for passage to Anilin. He had an easy manner and an honest smile. He seemed an earnest man. I did not like him. You'd expected a comment on how acting like a normal teenager is a huge leap for Kvothe, but it seems such simple characterization is beyond Rothfuss's skills. Josn happens to have a lute, and this is the catalyst for Kvothe to completely shed off his years in Tarbean. quote:I can honestly say that I was still not really myself. I was only four days away from living on the streets. I was not the same person I had been back in the days of the troupe, but neither was I yet the person you hear about in stories. I had changed because of Tarbean. I had learned many things it would have been easier to live without. Again, there’s no real consideration of character. I think I’ve said all I can about this. This also shows how Rothfuss tries to mix fantastic with prosaic. I said in the beginning that Rothfuss's method is to make his metaphors, similes, and whatnot so broad and significant that they end up occupying the reader's mind. For example, how Kvothe's music "spun something gossamer and tremulous into the circle of light our fire had made". This is mistaken for being intriguing, and as a result people end up praising the prose. Kvothe is of course amazing, and everyone is in varying degree of shock. Josn looks like he’s been “stabbed”. This is followed by a baffling passage in third person: quote:I held out the lute, not knowing whether to thank him or apologize. He took it numbly. After a moment, unable to think of anything to say, I left them sitting by the fire and walked toward the wagons. Rothfuss abruptly adopting third-person narration here seems to be a stab at irony, but it doesn’t really make sense for Kvothe to take this approach now. It adds nothing here. In Chapter 35, “A Parting of Ways,” Kvothe is ready to leave the caravan. There’s some pointless banter with a caravan worker which again makes me wonder why the story has so much pointless detail in the first place. Cealdish people like to approach business as family. It’s “world-building,” I suppose. Denna is nowhere to be found, which is actually something used to characterise her as unattainable, but she surprises Kvothe when he’s about to leave. Rothfuss finds it finally relevant again that Kvothe is a gypsy. quote:“You’re still going?” She asked. ROTHFUSSIAN ATTRIBUTES quote:I moved a finger and the chord went minor in a way that always sounded to me as if the lute were saying sad. Conclusion: Rothfuss is still not a good writer, and thus not fine. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Apr 21, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 20:30
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I feel like a substantial part of your problem is that you aren't reading this as Kvothe telling a story. There's been a significant number of nitpicks (for example, the arbitrary third person) that I absolutely would attribute to someone using to add a bit of garnish to a story they were telling. Same with "suddenly shedding everything from the last four years" - he's not just suddenly discarding that part of his personality, it's Kvothe the narrator talking about how the ability to finally play music again reawakened part of the self that he hadn't been in touch with during Tarbean.
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Mar 15, 2016 20:47
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ChickenWing posted:I feel like a substantial part of your problem is that you aren't reading this as Kvothe telling a story. I actually am - which is the problem. The prose doesn't take real advantage of it being (nominally) oral storytelling. Why add the "garnish" there of all places? Kvothe isn't a real person, Rothfuss has the complete freedom to arrange the story, but stuff like that is completely arbitrary. And why use this "perfect recall" gimmick in the first place when it means that pointless banter with a caravan worker gets as many words as the hero's goodbye with his first love? Kvothe is a trained storyteller, but he's pretty bad at it. It doesn't make sense on a meta-level. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 20:53
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Contrast? The pointless banter means nothing, and we take nothing away from it. Denna's goodbye means a significant amount, and it's siginificant that we get that much out of that small of an interaction.
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Mar 15, 2016 20:55
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ChickenWing posted:Contrast? The pointless banter means nothing, and we take nothing away from it. Denna's goodbye means a significant amount, and it's siginificant that we get that much out of that small of an interaction. Contrast would imply opposing elements, not a complete sequence like the banter and the goodbye. There is no opposition. e: Like you're saying that there's contrast because one thing is "significant" and the other is "not significant". That just means that there is no substantial contrast. It's actually set-up, but just not good. e2: Presumably the mention of the caravan being run by a husband and a wife is supposed to implicitly refer to Kvothe's troupe. Why is there no mention of how the caravan reminds Kvothe of his childhood? You'd think that was important, and it could explain why Kvothe fits in so easily. But the narration misses this. Is it really supposed to be that subtle? BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Mar 16, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 20:58
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quote:I moved a finger and the chord went minor in a way that always sounded to me as if the lute were saying sad. Hey, this...what is this? a simile? This simile was really evocative to me because Kvothe showed he was able to express his emotions with music which he wasn't able to do with words. Even if it was with someone elses lovely loot.
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Mar 16, 2016 01:45
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I'd say metaphor. But being a musician it hurts my eyes reading it. Describing a minor chord as an instrument saying "sad" is like hearing a child describe a mountain as really really really really really super duper big.
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Mar 16, 2016 03:27
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Well, at least it didn't say something like "ding".
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Mar 16, 2016 11:29
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Solice Kirsk posted:I'd say metaphor. But being a musician it hurts my eyes reading it. Describing a minor chord as an instrument saying "sad" is like hearing a child describe a mountain as really really really really really super duper big. Yeah the first time I read it seriously kicked me out of the story. Like really Rothfuss? Actually I think I remember all of these quotes Lamps is rothfuss-attributing, and I'm not one to remember quotes usually.
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Mar 16, 2016 11:48
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Just off the top of my head minor chords sound like: lonely winter days unrequited love a still/moonless/cold night passing of time featureless landscapes an empty stomach goodbyes In a book full of strained metaphor that one always stuck in my craw. Like he reaches out to describe swords as river stones or speech as landslides, but something as universal as sad sounding music is described as sad.
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Mar 16, 2016 15:14
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Don't they also give a sense of uneasiness or longing? It's been a while since I've studied music, but minor chords "sound sad" and major chords "sound upbeat and happy" is something we learn in elementary school. What really gets me is he explains his metaphor in the same sentence in such a banal and obvious way that it counteracts the metaphor itself. Just Ugh. edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2YJcxgj-WU Flattened Spoon fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Mar 16, 2016 |
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Mar 16, 2016 15:36
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It's like something a lovably clueless Will Ferrell would say when he's at his lowest point in the movie, sitting on the couch in his underwear drunkenly playing the eukele for his dog.
MartingaleJack fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Mar 16, 2016 |
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Mar 16, 2016 18:12
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BananaNutkins posted:It's like something a lovably clueless Will Ferrell would say when he's at his lowest point in the movie, sitting on the couch in his underwear drunkenly playing the eukele for his dog. Well I have new mental image for Kvothe.
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Mar 16, 2016 19:59
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I honestly wonder if GRRM finishes his series before Pat or not.
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Mar 16, 2016 21:39
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Benson Cunningham posted:I honestly wonder if GRRM finishes his series before Pat or not. The current trilogy? Yeah, if Pat ever actually publishes it, it'll likely be before GRRM finishes. The larger story that he (Pat) has been setting up, and will likely take at least another trilogy to wrap up? No loving way.
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Mar 16, 2016 21:48
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why did he make the hero a ginger.
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Mar 16, 2016 22:49
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Groovelord Neato posted:why did he make the hero a ginger. Because it makes him more of an outcast than he already is ie. poor, gypsie, an arrogant PITA, etc. edit: actually, has he even been affected by his gingerness?
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Mar 17, 2016 01:47
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Flattened Spoon posted:Because it makes him more of an outcast than he already is ie. poor, gypsie, an arrogant PITA, etc. Is it these books where gingers are raped to cure diseases?
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Mar 17, 2016 02:13
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His hair is actually more of a neon emo dye job. Ferrari red. Edit^^^^ nah man, that's my boy Scott Lynch. His books are way better (even with the rape).
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Mar 17, 2016 02:14
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Flattened Spoon posted:edit: actually, has he even been affected by his gingerness? It gets mentioned as very unique/distinctive from time to time, but that seems to be both good and bad for him in equal measure.
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Mar 17, 2016 02:22
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Ornamented Death posted:The current trilogy? Yeah, if Pat ever actually publishes it, it'll likely be before GRRM finishes. The larger story that he (Pat) has been setting up, and will likely take at least another trilogy to wrap up? No loving way. IIRC the larger story includes at least a trilogy for Bast and someone else (or a 2nd Kvothe trilogy after Bast maybe). GRRM will be done, or dead, with ASOIAF long before Rothfuss finishes the greater story arc of Kingkiller. Hell I'd be surprised if Rothfuss finishes those books before Sanderson finishes the Stormlight Archives books, which gives Rothfuss until the early 2030s or so.
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Mar 17, 2016 05:45
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Even that's very hopeful thinking. You are assuming that Rothfuss wants to write, but it doesn't look like it anymore. Why wouldn't Rothfuss just quit after finishing his contract. He and his family are set for life already, he can keep doing worldbuilderswhich is what he enjoys, and it doesn't really look like Rothfuss gives a poo poo about kingkillers resolution at this point. He's going full George Lucas
mallamp fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Mar 17, 2016 |
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Mar 17, 2016 09:19
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pentyne posted:Rothfuss is a fanfiction reader of what a fantasy author looks like ftfy
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Mar 17, 2016 23:39
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mallamp posted:Even that's very hopeful thinking. You are assuming that Rothfuss wants to write, but it doesn't look like it anymore. Why wouldn't Rothfuss just quit after finishing his contract. He and his family are set for life already, he can keep doing worldbuilderswhich is what he enjoys, and it doesn't really look like Rothfuss gives a poo poo about kingkillers resolution at this point. He's going full George Lucas Considering his dumb novels have been picked up for TV/Movie rights I wouldn't be surprised if this happens. GRRM probably makes more off HBO's show than his books at this point and it's likely a lot less work to give a team of writers the frame of your story while having some oversight(maybe) to ensure it doesn't stray too much.
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Mar 18, 2016 07:01
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I know it's never going to be GoT level, but do you think there's a chance that a proper TV writing and editing staff can make the source material something more palatable to people? Like, obviously people who don't like the story at its core still won't be swayed, but what about people that turn their noses up basically on writing quality alone?
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Mar 18, 2016 13:59
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SpacePig posted:I know it's never going to be GoT level, but do you think there's a chance that a proper TV writing and editing staff can make the source material something more palatable to people? Like, obviously people who don't like the story at its core still won't be swayed, but what about people that turn their noses up basically on writing quality alone? Name of the Wind posted:New York Times Bestseller I think it's already palatable to people. I continue to hold the opinion that a majority of problems with the book are higher-ended literary ones, and to the public at large they're still an enjoyable read. Plus unless you use the narrator's voice extensively throughout, we're not going to get any "sharp stone in swift water" metaphors.
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Mar 18, 2016 14:20
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I'm looking forward to a Legend-of-the-Seeker kind of redux myself.
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Mar 18, 2016 14:30
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SpacePig posted:I know it's never going to be GoT level, but do you think there's a chance that a proper TV writing and editing staff can make the source material something more palatable to people? Like, obviously people who don't like the story at its core still won't be swayed, but what about people that turn their noses up basically on writing quality alone? I think it will be worse, the cliche plot elements will be more apparent without all the fat that surrounds them. Only chance it could be good was if it got GoT level budget indeed and awesome sets would distract people instead of prose/filler.
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Mar 18, 2016 14:34
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