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Dang, Mr Scott sure took a long time to die. Also, 
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Mar 20, 2016 03:14
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God I can't stand Eleanor. The worst character and by far the stupidest, who magically is put in charge of the island. Literally so blinded by revenge (a hypocrite no less because she betrayed Vane how many times and essentially left him to die when she stole that prisoner) that she literally goes through with the dumbest possible decisions. It is almost remarkable. Oh hey this colony is teetering on the edge. Since we represent law and order lets secretly try and rush execute a popular figure on the island. WHAT CAN GO WRONG WITH THIS PLAN. At least Blackbeard will be on the warpath now.
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Mar 20, 2016 03:31
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unlawfulsoup posted:God I can't stand Eleanor. The worst character and by far the stupidest, who magically is put in charge of the island. Literally so blinded by revenge (a hypocrite no less because she betrayed Vane how many times and essentially left him to die when she stole that prisoner) that she literally goes through with the dumbest possible decisions. It is almost remarkable. Oh hey this colony is teetering on the edge. Since we represent law and order lets secretly try and rush execute a popular figure on the island. WHAT CAN GO WRONG WITH THIS PLAN. I'm guessing she dies before the season's done. I'm secretly hoping for a last-second flashback that shows she was in on this decision with Vane the whole time and allowed this to happen to help the rebellion. Otherwise, it just seems like a really obviously dumb move on her part, when they've been trying to show her as smart everywhere else all season.
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Mar 20, 2016 03:41
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qbert posted:I'm guessing she dies before the season's done. I'm secretly hoping for a last-second flashback that shows she was in on this decision with Vane the whole time and allowed this to happen to help the rebellion. Otherwise, it just seems like a really obviously dumb move on her part, when they've been trying to show her as smart everywhere else all season. If they utilize that plot twist, that will help save her character I think.
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Mar 20, 2016 04:35
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I liked Jack's speech in this episode too. Most philosophical pirate around.
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Mar 20, 2016 04:54
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I hope Blackbeard tears Eleanor's head off.
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Mar 20, 2016 05:01
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unlawfulsoup posted:God I can't stand Eleanor. The worst character and by far the stupidest, who magically is put in charge of the island. Literally so blinded by revenge (a hypocrite no less because she betrayed Vane how many times and essentially left him to die when she stole that prisoner) that she literally goes through with the dumbest possible decisions. It is almost remarkable. Oh hey this colony is teetering on the edge. Since we represent law and order lets secretly try and rush execute a popular figure on the island. WHAT CAN GO WRONG WITH THIS PLAN. Meanwhile, I think that I can't stand the weak writing/plotting this season. First, as noted upthread, Vane's capture was extremely forced - it was, in fact, the first thing that told me they were going to kill him this season, something that I shouldn't have been able to predict, and probably wouldn't have been, in the first season. And now... So, they take Eleanor, make her stupid for the purpose of revenge, conveniently temporarily take out Rodgers to absolve him of the blame (can't have the bro participating in such a heinous act, after all, even though the historic Rodgers hated Vane himself); Vane is now some sort of a heroic warrior for individualism and freedom, so the historical occurrence of Jack Rackham deposing him from captaincy, leading to Vane's historical death, is, of course, also out - after all, the two are heroic freedom fighters now, it's not the kind of behaviour that happens among honourable people! And all this for a mundane 'people's uprising' plot. It's like this show forgot that these people were backstabbing each other left and right, and drank the 'pirates were misunderstood and cool' kool-aid. I miss the treacherous swindlers from the first season, I guess. Also, I probably should have guessed the writing would go wrong the moment I saw Ray Stevenson with that twinkle in his eye that said, 'remember me? Yes, that's me. I'm sooo awesome! THIRTEEN!!!!'. /rant The initial scene between Eleanor and Vane in the prison was great, though. Extremely visceral. And I loved the underwater shots of the anchors.
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Mar 20, 2016 06:06
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Holy gently caress, what an episode. Charles Vane was a boss. Loved the scene with him in the beginning with Eleanor. Also liked Flint's dialogue with Silver about that one dude.
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Mar 20, 2016 06:17
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"Get on with it, Motherfucker" was an obvious The Wire reference and pretty cringeworthy considering a former HBO director wrote this episode  But yeah, looking forward to Blackbeard murdering the living poo poo out of Eleanor.
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Mar 20, 2016 06:27
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Yo, Liz Guthrie. You ded. D-E-D ded.
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Mar 20, 2016 06:59
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b-b-but ... history?????
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Mar 20, 2016 07:12
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I can't believe they killed Vane. I mean wtf, did they really write themselves into a corner or what. I guess his character didn't have anything left to do but geez he was a good character. I guess if we get Blackbeard main cast for the next season it will be worth it.
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Mar 20, 2016 08:04
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The only thing that telegraphed Vane's death for me was the fact that Flint was captured the season finale prior and was saved because seeing Flint hang is a message that couldn't be sent. Just like Vane. So the writers had the choice of being absolutely terrible and doing the same thing (but in reverse) or doing the less terrible thing and just killing off a directionless character. It didn't feel like they wrote themselves into a corner, but decided to kill off Vane and made his death as useful as they could for the plot, i.e. starting the revolt against GB. e: This episode peaked early on, when Flint handbrake parallel parked his pirate ship onto the beach and pulled out his gats 
Endless Trash fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Mar 20, 2016 |
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Mar 20, 2016 08:50
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Can't wait for Blackbeard to murder some Redcoats
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Mar 20, 2016 11:22
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Reminder that skipping all Eleanor scenes drastically improves the show.meristem posted:So, they take Eleanor, make her stupid for the purpose of revenge, conveniently temporarily take out Rodgers to absolve him of the blame (can't have the bro participating in such a heinous act, after all, even though the historic Rodgers hated Vane himself); Vane is now some sort of a heroic warrior for individualism and freedom, so the historical occurrence of Jack Rackham deposing him from captaincy, leading to Vane's historical death, is, of course, also out - after all, the two are heroic freedom fighters now, it's not the kind of behaviour that happens among honourable people! And all this for a mundane 'people's uprising' plot. It's like this show forgot that these people were backstabbing each other left and right, and drank the 'pirates were misunderstood and cool' kool-aid. I think Vane was a lovely character on the show and they didn't really have anything to do with him, so the death makes sense, but I'm deffo curious about what drama we missed. And the way they took Rogers out of the picture definitely felt forced there. FrensaGeran posted:e: This episode peaked early on, when Flint handbrake parallel parked his pirate ship onto the beach and pulled out his gats Immortan posted:Also liked Flint's dialogue with Silver about that one dude. I know it sound silly for a show that's ostensibly just "tits and canons" - but Flint has really made me re-examine concepts of leadership, like the importance of decisiveness and the optics of it. Especially in season 2(?) when he was voted out of the captaincy and sort of crept in and re-took it when the other guy hesitated. Space Pussy posted:"Get on with it, Motherfucker" was an obvious The Wire reference and pretty cringeworthy considering a former HBO director wrote this episode EDIT: In an interview with IGN, Zach McGowan (Vane) said it was his idea: quote:the only thing I asked was that he didn't plead. I was like, "Hopefully you guys don't write that he pleads for his life or anything like that. I would really just love to say, 'Let's get on with it, mother**ker.'" So they gave me that. VagueRant fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Mar 20, 2016 |
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Mar 20, 2016 14:01
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Immortan posted:Also liked Flint's dialogue with Silver about that one dude. I think this, really, is the key to a lot of what this show has always been about and also helps understand a lot of the writing, rather than just go: "THIS DOES NOT FIT INTO MY WORLDVIEW, HUMAN BEINGS SHOULD ACT LIKE ROBOTS IN FICTION BEEP BOOP, ERGO THIS SHOW'S WRITING IS BALLS." What I've really come to like about this show, has been hinted at very much in Season 1, pointed out by the end of Season 2 and now pretty much dissected in Season 3 is a pretty simple notion. Those in power are no more rational beings than the average person. Just moreso rationalizing. Flint doesn't kill Gates, kill Ashe and burn Charlestown to the ground because of anything logical at all. He kills those people, because gently caress anyone (even current and former friends) getting in the way of his revenge against England (with the exception of Barlow). Ashe doesn't betray Flint, because in his words 'it achieves the least horrible outcome', but because he was too weak and afraid for his own and his daughter's future. Jack doesn't do the things he does simply because he 'cares about his legacy', as Eleanor put it, but because he wants to get his family back what the world took from his dad - its name. I could go on and on with this and, to me at least, it makes the characters far more realistic and fleshed out than any amount of fictional intellectually-fellating ubermensch types, that never make any logical errors ever, in power ever could. In this exact same vein, Eleanor doing what she did was a foregone conclusion for me the moment I saw Rogers sick in bed from the tropical disease. In the words of the madame, she can only define herself by those who hate her, and without Rogers to restrain her, boy would she relish becoming queen bitch again, for however short time it'll turn out to be. And all the while, of course, she lies out her rear end and offers those same rationalizations that Flint and Silver talk about in that conversation. Vane, to me, really was the only one with any amount of power or influence who just never subscribed to that rationalizing way of justification, and just let the chips fall where there may. While admirable from one point of view, there's also not much development one can do with such a character and yeah - I'm ultimately okay with things happening as they did. Anywho, all that's left at this point is next week's thunderdome. So let's get it on, because I have a sneaking suspicion that the island won't be the *only* place where violence and mayhem will happen.  VagueRant posted:Reminder that skipping all Eleanor scenes drastically improves the show. Even the one, where Vane gets the better of her in the cell? I always laugh my rear end off when things don't turn out the way she wants them to IMO. CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Mar 20, 2016 |
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Mar 20, 2016 15:07
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VagueRant posted:Reminder that skipping all Eleanor scenes drastically improves the show. You want a story...? 😊 quote:On the 23d of October, off of Long Island, he took a small Brigantine, bound from Jamaica to Salem in New-England, John Shattock Master, and a little Sloop; they rifled the Brigantine, and sent her away. From hence they resolved on a Cruize between Cape Meise and Cape Nicholas, where they spent some Time, without seeing or speaking with any Vessel, till the latter End of November; then they fell upon a Ship, which ’twas expected would have struck as soon as their black Colours were hoisted; but instead of that, she discharged a Broadside upon the Pyrate, and hoisted Colours, which shewed her to be a French Man of War. Vane desired to have nothing further to say to her, but trimm'd his Sails, and stood away from the French Man; but Monsieur having a Mind to be better informed who he was, set all his Sails, and crowded after him. During this Chace, the Pyrates were divided in their Resolutions what to do: Vane, the Captain, was for making off as fast as he could, alledging the Man of War was too strong to cope with; but one John Rackam, who was an Officer, that had a kind of a Check upon the Captain, rose up in Defence of a contrary Opinion, saying, That tho’ she had more Guns, and a greater Weight of Mettal, they might board her, and then the best Boys would carry the Day. Rackam was well seconded, and the Majority was for boarding; but Vane urged, That it was too rash and desperate an Enterprize, the Man of War appearing to be twice their Force; and that their Brigantine might be sunk by her before they could reach on board. The Mate, one Robert Deal, was of Vane's Opinion, as were about fifteen more, and all the rest joined with Rackam, the Quarter-Master. At length the Captain made use of his Power to determine this Dispute, which, in these Cases, is absolute and uncontroulable, by their own Laws, viz. in fighting, chasing, or being chased; in all other Matters whatsoever, he is governed by a Majority; so the Brigantine having the Heels, as they term it, of the French Man, she came clear off. (https://digital.lib.ecu.edu/text/17001 ) meristem fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Mar 20, 2016 |
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Mar 20, 2016 15:14
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RL Vane's end is a pretty drat cool tale too. Alas, it's moreso a tale about a man that was a giant gaping rear end in a top hat and with whom the world finally caught up.
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Mar 20, 2016 15:23
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Rogers is gonna wake up on a ship heading back to Britain wondering what the gently caress Eleanor did- he'll lose Nassau and not even know why or how.
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Mar 20, 2016 16:51
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PaybackJack posted:I can't believe they killed Vane. I mean wtf, did they really write themselves into a corner or what. I guess his character didn't have anything left to do but geez he was a good character. I guess if we get Blackbeard main cast for the next season it will be worth it. Having had both Flint and Rackham in pretty much the same situation, it would've been a bit much to have a third narrow escape. They probably needed it to bring suspense back to the show, now it'll be no quarter all the way.
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Mar 20, 2016 16:58
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Even that last part of Vane's story, summed up in "try'd, convicted, and executed" is kind of amazing, because between being caught and thrown and jail and the time he actually died drat near a year passed. That is pretty much unheard of. Nobody in the world thought Charles Vane was innocent of anything, probably including his mother seconds after he left the womb. He basically just had an extra year to rot in jail before they finally put him down.
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Mar 20, 2016 17:01
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Wouldn't be surprised if the reason for that wasn't something like what was actually very well demonstrated in the show, after Vane sets the fire ship onto The Willing Mind and Rogers talks to Eleanor about it: "Just signing the petition to the insurance company, for restitution since it was no fault of ours. Several months will pass and some clerk somewhere will insist on sending letters to Charles Vane, to get *his* side of the account, before making a decision. Between you and I, if there's ever a moment, when I take up the black and declare myself an outlaw of the crown, it'll be because of the bloody insurance companies." And RL Charles Vane did a lot of damage. So probably a lot of insurance claims to straighten out.
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Mar 20, 2016 17:10
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This show has done a good job getting nice performances out of their prettyboy hunk characters like Vane and Silver. Zach McGowan did well conveying a man driven to follow the dictates of his own heart, even if they lead him to decisions in the end that no one can understand, like rejoining and then going against his old mentor, accepting his fate and becoming a martyr etc. RIP best abs and hair on the show!
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Mar 20, 2016 20:42
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I agree with all of you in general. I had a strong feeling Vane was going to die as well. I think the character was kind of played out, but like with most of the cast the actor generally hit it out of the park most of the time. The one thing I will say about Vane too is that the whole lofty freedom fighter thing probably is not how he would view himself. Just that his hand was basically played out and he sort of could go out on as close to his terms as left posssible. ie: loving things up for the British/Eleanor. 
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Mar 20, 2016 22:15
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Yeah, I'm more sad about the loss of Zach McGowan the actor than Vane the character. He was so drat good in the role, and he really brought everything he could to his scenes. We already know where most of the pirates end up because of, well, actual history, but it's always sad seeing a good actor leave a show that seemed tailored for him. But man Queen Anne's Revenge is going to be loving amazing with Ray Stevenson at the helm when poo poo hits the fan in the finale.
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Mar 21, 2016 01:22
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Things are about to get very expensive next weekend.
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Mar 21, 2016 01:43
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Nooooooooooooooooooooooo
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Mar 21, 2016 10:02
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unlawfulsoup posted:God I can't stand Eleanor. The worst character and by far the stupidest, who magically is put in charge of the island. Literally so blinded by revenge (a hypocrite no less because she betrayed Vane how many times and essentially left him to die when she stole that prisoner) that she literally goes through with the dumbest possible decisions. It is almost remarkable. Oh hey this colony is teetering on the edge. Since we represent law and order lets secretly try and rush execute a popular figure on the island. WHAT CAN GO WRONG WITH THIS PLAN. I've had a theory that she's been playing both sides against each other in an attempt to reclaim her island. Specifically that she was the real source of the leak regarding Rackam's route and after ingratiating herself with Rogers, she's now lightly poisoning him so he'll just appear to be coming down with Caribbean fever and she can start making decisions that weaken both the English and the pirates. I keep wanting to like her as a character, but she's never really shown any physical strength. Even if she'd just paid someone (even if it was Vane) to kill Ned last season, or had an entourage of bodyguards or something. You can't just keep tricking lawless people into doing your bidding if they all know you're doing it because eventually someone is going to get pissed off.
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Mar 22, 2016 07:39
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 for the entire episode.I did NOT see that coming. Holy poo poo, this show keeps getting better and better.
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Mar 22, 2016 08:14
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Cat Hatter posted:I keep wanting to like her as a character, but she's never really shown any physical strength. Even if she'd just paid someone (even if it was Vane) to kill Ned last season, or had an entourage of bodyguards or something. You can't just keep tricking lawless people into doing your bidding if they all know you're doing it because eventually someone is going to get pissed off. She did have that one dude as bodyguard, whom Ned killed in a duel, actually. And before that also Scott, who handled most of the gruntwork. It's just that she never bothered to take Vane's advice right before that: "If you are not strong enough to protect yourself, then I invite you to cease behaving as if you are." And when offered a way forward by Rogers, she seriously thinks she can have her cake and eat it too by carrying baggage from the past and that it won't just drag her back into oblivion. Now she's pretty much failed her final chance at anything by offing Vane, someone she hated yet was also pretty much the only person, asides Rogers (who is currently deliriously ill in bed), who even remotely had an inclination to give a poo poo about her/stand between her and people like Ned Low. And she did so, killing the only person Blackbeard, who has his own fleet, cared about...and right before sending the entire British + Underhill's fleet to fight Flint so Nassau is undefended...and alongside Billy Bones reminding the island to hate her again... ...TBH, if she survives the last episode against all these odds, I'd seriously take a dimmer view of the writing lol. The only possible way might be Max spiriting her away somehow...but even then, the madame recently approaching her hints that won't happen either. CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 15:39
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Surprised people expect another main cast death at all. Isn't that the first one they've ever done? Oh wait, I guess there was Quartermaster Gates.  (And did Mrs Barlow or whatever count?)
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Mar 22, 2016 15:55
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Next season gonna have captains dropping left and right. If the next season is the last I would be okay with that. Spartacus has 3.5 seasons and it was a good run. Any more than 4 and it's just going to get very dull very fast. Dexter to me still ended on season 4
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Mar 22, 2016 16:01
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VagueRant posted:Surprised people expect another main cast death at all. Isn't that the first one they've ever done? And Mr. Scott too. Yeah, they've been holding off on main cast deaths a fair bit, given several of them have to make it to Treasure Island and need regulars to interact with and get compelling history with. But I got a feeling the end of this season will pretty much be more of a 'big purge' situation. Or at least hoping for it, lol. Then in Season 4 Blackbeard might bite it himself, similar to how he went down historically, and perhaps a few more...and yea, if Season 4 was the last and ended where Treasure Island began...I'd actually be pretty cool with that!
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Mar 22, 2016 17:59
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CrazyLoon posted:She did have that one dude as bodyguard, whom Ned killed in a duel, actually. And before that also Scott, who handled most of the gruntwork. It's just that she never bothered to take Vane's advice right before that: "If you are not strong enough to protect yourself, then I invite you to cease behaving as if you are." And when offered a way forward by Rogers, she seriously thinks she can have her cake and eat it too by carrying baggage from the past and that it won't just drag her back into oblivion. Yeah, that one dude didn't strike me as being able to deal with a crew of pissed off pirates. I think they dropped the ball by not having her either surprise Ned with a pistol (its not like he would have been expecting it) or addressing the island: "Ned has threatened me and therefore your livelihood. I'll give any group that kills him and his crew $Texas and you can keep all his poo poo. If its his own crew that brings me his head, I'll let them live." Then Vane could have still been the one to kill Ned and take his ship/cargo, set up a nice turn when Rogers later puts a bounty on Vane, and Eleanor would have demonstrated why she's not dead already if everyone hates her. Also, if my "Eleanor is trying to retake the island" theory is correct, the madame might have been bullshitting Max about the leak to hide Eleanor's involvement, splinter the whore leadership, and ingratiate herself with Max while working for Eleanor.
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Mar 22, 2016 20:20
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Mar 22, 2016 21:38
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SaltLick posted:Next season gonna have captains dropping left and right. I think it would be nice if Max ditched Nassau and started calling herself Mary Read for this final season, though.
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Mar 23, 2016 06:45
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I made it a few episodes into this show and then completely fell off (like episode 9 or something) but keep hearing rumblings of it. How much better has the show got since season 1? I remember the art titties guy or whatever and that was good and the characters were enjoyable but then it got kind of stale ... has the show picked up steam and is really super good now? I don't hear about it from anyone but I see the news articles about the show and it seems that critics like the season so farf?
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Mar 23, 2016 07:23
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Meowbot posted:I made it a few episodes into this show and then completely fell off (like episode 9 or something) but keep hearing rumblings of it. How much better has the show got since season 1? I remember the art titties guy or whatever and that was good and the characters were enjoyable but then it got kind of stale ... has the show picked up steam and is really super good now? I don't hear about it from anyone but I see the news articles about the show and it seems that critics like the season so farf? Season 2 is a big improvement over Season 1, though I remember liking 1 fine. Season 3 has been pretty good so far, though I think people's overall opinion of it will depend a lot on this upcoming finale episode, since the whole season's been building up to what's about to happen.
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Mar 23, 2016 08:58
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Meowbot posted:I made it a few episodes into this show and then completely fell off (like episode 9 or something) but keep hearing rumblings of it. How much better has the show got since season 1? I remember the art titties guy or whatever and that was good and the characters were enjoyable but then it got kind of stale ... has the show picked up steam and is really super good now? I don't hear about it from anyone but I see the news articles about the show and it seems that critics like the season so farf? It gets amazing.
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Mar 23, 2016 13:30
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| # ? May 29, 2024 07:39 |
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Meowbot posted:I made it a few episodes into this show and then completely fell off (like episode 9 or something) but keep hearing rumblings of it. How much better has the show got since season 1? I remember the art titties guy or whatever and that was good and the characters were enjoyable but then it got kind of stale ... has the show picked up steam and is really super good now? I don't hear about it from anyone but I see the news articles about the show and it seems that critics like the season so farf? The basic setup of this series, in regards to dramatic structure or however it's called in english, has by now been established to be: Initial episode hooks you in, hopefully, and gets you interested to see the rest of the season. Then it tapers off slowly, the middle of it tends to be the doldrums part (which I still find interesting somewhat, but yea - others can moreso be: "Where's the action?!") and just when you think this show's gotten somewhat too boring, it tapers back up and finishes with the last episode or two being a complete orgy of poo poo happening so fast it makes one's head spin. And it still makes sense. So what I'm saying is - yea, you should deffo give Season 2 a go from start to finish. And if it hooks you, it's fair to say you're gonna really like Season 3. CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Mar 23, 2016 |
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Mar 23, 2016 16:18
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