|
i like both X and XIII though because i like linearity
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2016 23:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 09:24 |
|
|
Blitzball kid is okay, he justified Kilika's existence at least.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2016 23:42
|
|
|
Cake Attack posted:blitzball sucks and the towns are empty and boring But at least they exist. Bad options are better than no options at all. I still remember when I first played XIII, I was begging for a town to just relax at because the game was bombarding me with all this poo poo and I just couldn't process it all. It's all well and good to have an exciting, action-packed opening. FVII did it after all. But after you blow up the reactor, you retire and talk and learn. You get time to properly take it all in. Not so much with XIII. You have exposition vomited at you while a billion other things are going on and who the gently caress are these characters and how does the battle system work again and NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Mar 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2016 23:51
|
|
|
Onmi posted:Also, while you never will, nothing stops you at certain points at turning the entire pilgrimage around and going back to Besaid, the NPCs even have new dialog for events like Yuna's wedding. poo poo you would never see unless you specifically chose to walk all the way back. I'm sure 90% of incidental dialog has never been seen because gently caress THAT. Staaaaay away fromtheSummoner!
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2016 23:52
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:But at least they exist. Bad options are better than no options at all. This I don't agree with at all. Bad options make a game much worse because at best you have to ignore something the game is designed to take into account and at worse you can't ignore them and they suck. I'm fine with games trying something and failing but that doesn't mean I think it's a good thing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2016 23:59
|
|
|
tbh i dont know why im defending it because i've always hated ffx
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 00:01
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:This I don't agree with at all. Bad options make a game much worse because at best you have to ignore something the game is designed to take into account and at worse you can't ignore them and they suck. I'm fine with games trying something and failing but that doesn't mean I think it's a good thing. I don't think FFX having towns is some daring experiment, it's just a convention one expects in their RPGs. The fact its towns were mostly boring doesn't really bother me much because I could count the number of FFs with interesting towns on one hand. It's the mere fact of their existence that I appreciate, especially after XIII.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 00:34
|
|
|
that argument makes no sense to me. if the towns are boring why do you appreciate their existence? just cause they're convention doesn't mean a game is lesser for not having them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 00:40
|
|
|
The quality of the towns as compared to other towns is one element. The other element is the presence of activities other than running toward the next objective. A pattern of tension and release is important.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 00:41
|
|
|
Help Im Alive posted:I get the linearity complaints with XIII but it's kind of weird that no one seemed to mind it in FFX They did, there's a guy in the gen chat thread who'll rant about if you ever mention FFX
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 00:41
|
|
|
Bongo Bill posted:The quality of the towns as compared to other towns is one element. The other element is the presence of activities other than running toward the next objective. A pattern of tension and release is important. why is that important? at least, why can it only be achieved in a specific way? shooters don't have towns to explore. platformers don't either. all you do in these games and in plenty of other genres is run towards the next objective, sometimes quite literally tension and release is achieved through the pacing of the running towards the objective. a tough boss battle followed by a scenic environment with lesser enemies, etc.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 00:46
|
|
|
Cake Attack posted:platformers don't either. Some of the 3D Sonics did. Wait I'm proving your point aren't I
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 00:48
|
|
|
Cake Attack posted:why is that important? at least, why can it only be achieved in a specific way? shooters don't have towns to explore. platformers don't either. all you do in these games and in plenty of other genres is run towards the next objective, sometimes quite literally Even shooters typically mix up the objectives and the intensity thereof. Platformers have rising and falling action within the levels, too, or the pattern of returning to a hub area.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 00:50
|
|
|
Getsuya posted:Some of the 3D Sonics did. If you mean hubs, 3D Marios would be a positive example.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 00:50
|
|
|
Bongo Bill posted:Even shooters typically mix up the objectives and the intensity thereof. Platformers have rising and falling action within the levels, too, or the pattern of returning to a hub area. FFXIII does that too. It actually does have a pattern of rising and falling. You don't get to explore during those moments much but there are downtimes like the time you actually do stop into a city or the golden saucer alike or whatever. FFXIII has pacing issues but it isn't literally nonstop action. It's just lacking exploration. Pacing is important in games and FFXIII isn't good at it but it isn't on 24/7.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 00:56
|
|
|
Cake Attack posted:i like both X and XIII though because i like linearity Yah it's not inherently a flaw.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 01:06
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:I don't think FFX having towns is some daring experiment, it's just a convention one expects in their RPGs. The fact its towns were mostly boring doesn't really bother me much because I could count the number of FFs with interesting towns on one hand. in a thread filled with people nitpicking this is the dumbest nitpick i've seen
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 01:25
|
|
|
I don't think FFIX having a world map is some daring experiment, it's just a convention one expects in their RPGs. The fact its world map was mostly boring doesn't really bother me much because I could count the number of FFs with interesting world maps on one hand. It's the mere fact of their existence that I appreciate, especially after X.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 01:30
|
|
|
I know my taking this seriously will spoil the joke but I loved the overworld in FF9 because of Chocobo Hot and Cold. That minigame/quest chain was great.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 01:32
|
|
|
World maps aren't all that interesting and I don't think they contribute at all to whether I like or dislike a game. Same with towns I guess? But they're usually where npcs are and npc dialogue can be good and funny and I like reading it. So maybe what FFXIII was really missing out on was npcs for me to talk to.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 01:35
|
|
|
I have no problems with world maps but I also don't need them either. A game that takes place in a 4-block section of a city could be just as interesting as one that takes place over the entire world.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 01:39
|
|
|
Getsuya posted:I know my taking this seriously will spoil the joke but I loved the overworld in FF9 because of Chocobo Hot and Cold. That minigame/quest chain was great. No matter how many times I replay FF9 I'll never like its world map. The whole thing is extremely front loaded and continents 2-4 have embarrassingly low amount of content on them. It doesn't help the existence of Esto Gaza has always driven me crazy and that I don't like Chocobo Hot n Cold
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 01:39
|
|
|
Best overworld was Final Fantasy Mystic Quest. It was like the stage select in a Mario game only instead of platforming stages it was groups of battles and dungeons. Let's be honest that's all you really need.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 01:41
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:Same with towns I guess? But they're usually where npcs are and npc dialogue can be good and funny and I like reading it. So maybe what FFXIII was really missing out on was npcs for me to talk to. FFXIII was missing characters that weren't the main party. It really went the opposite extreme of XII, which had a largely superfluous playable party but a lot of important and interesting NPC's. mandatory lesbian posted:in a thread filled with people nitpicking this is the dumbest nitpick i've seen I'd like to savor the world I'm supposed to save. As it is, with everything I was allowed to see on Cocoon, it probably is better destroyed and everyone being alive or dead is just whatever. I don't have the slightest incentive to give a poo poo about any of them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 01:43
|
|
|
FFX had a kid wanting to be a blitzball. FFXIII had (not-so) tough moms. FFIV had the good guys open a locked door to a McGuffin that the bad guy needed and then were shocked when the bad guy got the McGuffin. FFVI had a woman try to kill herself and then get saved by a bird (assuming you let a man die from food poisoning/starvation). FFVII had a guy beat the poo poo out of a woman. This is the series where they had to rebuild both FF14 and FF15 from the ground up. There's a multiplayer game that you can only play if everyone has a specific handheld device so that people save ten seconds not messing with the inventory on their screen. We have a game where everyone views the protagonist as a villain because he wants to drag his friends back into their lovely real-world lives. We had a guy take a janky archaic game and make it even more difficult and annoying to play. We have a game where you get stronger by stabbing yourself with a sword, and it spawned its own series. You have people riding around on yellow ostriches and talking to flying teddy bears while you summon an old man with a huge beard to kill some giant tentacle beasts that can cripple you with their rancid breath. These people have hair of every god drat color of the loving rainbow, including colors that haven't even been invented yet. They wield weapons larger than themselves. We've got five year olds killing loving demons made out of pure hatred. This is a series where nothing makes any god drat loving sense and I don't even know where I'm going with this anymore.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 01:45
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:I'd like to savor the world I'm supposed to save. As it is, with everything I was allowed to see on Cocoon, it probably is better destroyed an everyone being alive or dead is just whatever. I don't have the slightest incentive to give a poo poo about any of them. While I understand having a good world map can provide a lot of flavor and clarity to a setting, FFXIII makes it very clear Cocoon is home to the only living human beings so it falling from the sky is game over for the human race.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 01:45
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:I have no problems with world maps but I also don't need them either. A game that takes place in a 4-block section of a city could be just as interesting as one that takes place over the entire world. twewy was a good game, yes
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 01:45
|
|
|
ImpAtom I'm not going to read any of that poo poo but I'm going to say it was a good post because it's more than just "FXIII is good."
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 01:54
|
|
|
Mega64 posted:FFX had a kid wanting to be a blitzball. FFXIII had (not-so) tough moms. FFIV had the good guys open a locked door to a McGuffin that the bad guy needed and then were shocked when the bad guy got the McGuffin. FFVI had a woman try to kill herself and then get saved by a bird (assuming you let a man die from food poisoning/starvation). FFVII had a guy beat the poo poo out of a woman. This is the series where they had to rebuild both FF14 and FF15 from the ground up. There's a multiplayer game that you can only play if everyone has a specific handheld device so that people save ten seconds not messing with the inventory on their screen. We have a game where everyone views the protagonist as a villain because he wants to drag his friends back into their lovely real-world lives. We had a guy take a janky archaic game and make it even more difficult and annoying to play. We have a game where you get stronger by stabbing yourself with a sword, and it spawned its own series. You have people riding around on yellow ostriches and talking to flying teddy bears while you summon an old man with a huge beard to kill some giant tentacle beasts that can cripple you with their rancid breath. These people have hair of every god drat color of the loving rainbow, including colors that haven't even been invented yet. They wield weapons larger than themselves. We've got five year olds killing loving demons made out of pure hatred. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSXr99WhxDo Here guys let's all listen to Hyadain sing the main Final Fantasy theme and get all misty-eyed with nostalgia remembering all the good times we've had with the whole series.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 02:05
|
|
|
Blitzball was badly designed but I played a lot of it anyway because I am a sucker for both fantasy sports and management sims
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 02:07
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:FFXIII was missing characters that weren't the main party. It really went the opposite extreme of XII, which had a largely superfluous playable party but a lot of important and interesting NPC's. see thats way better worded then whining about there being no cities, even though your fallacy here is forgetting all the characters in FF13 don't actually give a gently caress about saving the world
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 02:23
|
|
|
Getsuya posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSXr99WhxDo I was going to counter this with the goofy marching band version from LR but I couldn't find it with a quick google. How has no one recorded standing around next to those guys?
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 02:32
|
|
|
Cake Attack posted:blitzball sucks and the towns are empty and boring Mlyp Hey when does the release date for XV get announced?
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 02:56
|
|
|
Kalenn Istarion posted:Mlyp The 30th. http://www.finalfantasyxv.com/uncovered/us/
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 02:58
|
|
|
I like towns, side characters, and side quests over world maps. Neither is necessary but towns tend to be more appreciated. I like talking to my made up computer friend with 1-2 lines of dialog because it makes the world feel a little more lived in. Also I like that someone wrote a kid who wants to be a blitzball when he grows up. Those are my thoughts on towns.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 03:27
|
|
|
bloodychill posted:I like towns, side characters, and side quests over world maps. Neither is necessary but towns tend to be more appreciated. I like talking to my made up computer friend with 1-2 lines of dialog because it makes the world feel a little more lived in. Also I like that someone wrote a kid who wants to be a blitzball when he grows up. Those are my thoughts on towns. It goes to show especially that even in a very gameplay-focused RPG, it's important to have a crop of NPCs and some place you can explore and interact with in a variety of ways. I think of Digital Devil Saga 2, which kind of has very rapidly moving action and the game is 80 percent gameplay to 20 percent story, but it still manages to have a bunch of NPCs who hang around in front of the game's various dungeons. They all have changing dialogue over the course of the game, and somehow I feel like, if they weren't there and if I didn't occassionally glimpse normal people milling about town square while the world is in peril, then all of the dramatic cutscenes would ring just a little more hollow. It's a valuable detail for any game, to immerse you.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 05:20
|
|
|
mandatory lesbian posted:see thats way better worded then whining about there being no cities, even though your fallacy here is forgetting all the characters in FF13 don't actually give a gently caress about saving the world The lack of a cohesive goal was another point against FFXIII. FFX's linearity was a little easier to swallow because the party's goal for over half the game tied into it - they're on a pilgrimage, they're focused on getting from point A to point B and onward to point Z, so the whole world map is essentially one long road between those points. FFXIII gives you the very vague objective of "run the hell away" until you get to Pulse, at which point it changes from "go to Oerba, I guess maybe?" and then "do exactly what the villain wants for because," interspersed with a handful of shallow character moments that suffer more from the party being so divided. And even though FFX's gang was on pilgrimage, their hike still took the player through a detailed and occasionally interesting cross-section of Spira, its society, and how that all tied into the game's themes. FFXIII's setting is a nonsensical carnival ride of disparate locales because the game was nothing but a bunch of art assets hastily spliced together at the last minute, which further kills any sense of progress or momentum besides making numbers get bigger.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 05:28
|
|
|
Getsuya posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSXr99WhxDo Final Fantasy is... good. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 05:36
|
|
|
I played a lot of FFXIII and while I wouldn't say I hated it (I thought the paradigm system was really interesting and forced you to look at battles a different way), I hated pretty much the entire main cast except the Power Lesbians and thought all of their interactions were utterly unlike any way humans would interact. It was like Yoshiyuki Tomino wrote a Final Fantasy game. Of particular note was the scene earlyish on where Lightning flips a poo poo and shakes Hope by the shoulders screaming WE'RE JUST PETS HOPE Also the fact that I did not give a single poo poo about Cocoon or Pulse because there were no named NPCs aside from highly evil people, Serah, Sazh's son, and Hope's parents. The villains kind of came out of nowhere, the whole overarching plot was a mess (and only got worse in XIII-2??)...FF is not known for amazing plots (X aside, maybe) but XIII's was really, remarkably weird and hard to follow.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 05:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 09:24 |
|
|
It was a story that came together towards the end, which might explain why some people view it more favorably now that they've replayed it. I distinctly remember the lack of interesting villains in the first act affected my motivation to finish up on my playthrough.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 05:54
|
|