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SonicRulez posted:I just wanted to add that you do have several autosave files. So if you felt you chose wrong with Ra's, you could roll back and do it again. If this is the case on the PS4 then I have been doing things wrong this whole time. Otherwise as far as I'm aware there was only the one? I can't think of too much more in the game from here on it will change. Grapplejack posted:As a side note I finally got around to playing Arkham Origins: Blackgate and hoo boy I can't imagine having paid for that. It's Bad. Scruff is a better man for not LPing it. The only way I'll touch that game again is if they continue the Arkham universe stuff with a good Suicide Squad game, because I'll probably wind up playing that too. I did the boss fight with the Joker first and stopped after that because it was pretty much garbage.
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Mar 21, 2016 15:06
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Iretep posted:BTAS batman is basically a massive dick. I think the best example of this is in the prequel comic to batman beyond. (comic spoilers, read if you dont care and want to subject yourelf to a dump comic plot)Barbara is pregnant with Batmans child while she was still dating Dick. Instead of letting Barbara go tell Dick about it herself, Batman rushes to Dick and tells the news himself. This was apparently the reason they all broke up and it lead to batman beyond. Because batman couldnt help being batman even in his own private life. I really liked Batman Beyond however, minus the terrible comic-booky "origin of the origin" they shoe-horned into the world at the end of the Justice League cartoon. Bitching about Batman Beyond, which has nothing to do with this game but still is spoilers for the series in general:Terry being a sorta Batman clone is insanely retarded and I hate hate hate hate hate it with every loving fiber of my being because the thing I liked about Terry is that he wasn't Batman on pretty much any level besides losing a parent to criminal violence. He was a working class ex-punk/criminal, had a family still afterwards, had kind of a different mindset than Bruce... but um nope I guess he's just fated to be Batman and he has Bruce's genes, even though the lady that played the Phantasm had a change of heart last minute and refused to kill his parents as part of Amanda's plan to make a new Batman. Also his "grown up" design where his Bruce-gene lantern law came in and had a fonz hairdo was horrendous.
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Mar 21, 2016 15:22
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dscruffy1 posted:If this is the case on the PS4 then I have been doing things wrong this whole time. Otherwise as far as I'm aware there was only the one? I can't think of too much more in the game from here on it will change. Yeah, I play PS4. I think you press R1 on the main menu to bring up a log of the last few autosaves. I remember having to do that for some reason, probably some glitch I encountered when the game first came out. There's one more sidequest that I can think of where it would come in handy.
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Mar 21, 2016 15:38
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Fabricated posted:He had the ability to decide if Ras lived or died in his hands, so to him regardless of the circumstance choosing to let him die is the same as killing him- Even IF Ras was a horror show of a living corpse with a brain melted by centuries of mysterious revival chemicals. Most people would look at the guy and determine you were participating in endless torture by reviving him again even if he wasn't going to start a deadly ninja war in your town. In City, Batman intentionally destroys the Lazarus Pit by dumping Clayface into it so Joker can't use it. TBF he did have some cure left at that point.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:26
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Am I missing something or was Batman kind of not at all necessary for Nyssa's plans as presented? I mean if Batman hadn't have been there Nyssa would have destroyed the Lazarus fountain, since she showed up 1 second later to do exactly that, and she and her bodyguards fought their way right to Ras literally one second after Batman sticks that syringe into him, and if Batman hadn't have been there, they'd have killed him straight-up. Literally the only part Batman played in Nyssa's plot was to betray her, and he was only able to do that because she was dumb enough to let him keep his syringe full of Lazarus goo - something he absolutely would not need unless he was planning to betray her.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:39
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Discendo Vox posted:An audiolog spawns in the hospital lobby after the mission is over. In it, Ra's explicitly leaves the League to Talia if Batman refuses to succeed him during the AC series of events- he also says the Lazarus resurrections have become unsustainable. The only reason he's trying for Batman instead of handing over the reins to Talia immediately is because she wants him to give Batman another shot. Oh hey, I turned out to be right. I knew I heard that somewhere.
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Mar 21, 2016 17:01
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SonicRulez posted:Yeah, I play PS4. I think you press R1 on the main menu to bring up a log of the last few autosaves. I remember having to do that for some reason, probably some glitch I encountered when the game first came out. There's one more sidequest that I can think of where it would come in handy. I'll be damned. When you're picking a profile, hold down L1 and you can restart from your last two autosaves and it'll overwrite your most recent progress. I LEARNED SOMETHING TODAY
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Mar 21, 2016 17:21
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dscruffy1 posted:The only way I'll touch that game again is if they continue the Arkham universe stuff with a good Suicide Squad game, because I'll probably wind up playing that too. I did the boss fight with the Joker first and stopped after that because it was pretty much garbage. I finished the game. 100%. On the PSVita. TWICE. 
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Mar 21, 2016 18:37
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IBlameRoadSuess posted:I finished the game. 100%. On the PSVita. TWICE. Well there's your problem. It wasn't like you had that many options. This coming from someone who wanted a Vita and or a psp and never got around to it.
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Mar 21, 2016 18:44
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Major_JF posted:Well there's your problem. It wasn't like you had that many options. I've got FFX.  But seriously though, I get a lot of mileage out of my Vita I was just stuck in the car for several hours with only that game or Assassin's Creed 3 Liberation. I neglected to bring Persona 4 or any of my other good games for it because I am a dumb.
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Mar 21, 2016 18:48
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Mzbundifund posted:Am I missing something or was Batman kind of not at all necessary for Nyssa's plans as presented? Probably not, but keep in mind that Batman being recruited to cure Ra's gave him the opportunity to obtain Ra's' body before they could relocate and find another Pit.
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Mar 21, 2016 19:01
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Danakir posted:I dunno that something with these kind of side-effects is something you should share. Sure, people come back. But they come back wrong. And then it just gets worse with every trip inside the pit. hard counter posted:The whole purpose of that sequence, by my estimation, was displaying the argument that Batman can still have blood on his hands w/o himself being a murderer (a point the thread just arguing somewhat just prior to the video). Either he lets Ras die naturally in a grey situation and his side of the civil war probably crumbles or he cures Ras and war continues outside of Gotham in yet another grey situation. Letting generic innocents die in Nyssa's place makes that point (it was her point actually; she also refuses to use Lazarus tech to save herself as a personal decision) resonate much less and it wouldn't even make sense as part of Ras' bargain was that he takes all this strife outside of Gotham should he live. The writers didn't want an easy out here where everyone walks away. hard counter posted:but imho the audience's own cultural climate shouldn't overly color their analysis of a game or other works (it should be treated like its in a vacuum) IBlameRoadSuess posted:killing off Nyssa was entirely Scruffy's choice. (She's a traitor to Ra's, and he's batfuck crazy at this point, is he really going to let her live if he lives? Even if Batman stopped him momentarily, all he would need to do is go after her later.) SonicRulez posted:But really this is all I can focus on. Complaining about this Oracle plot as it's only just begun is like calling a rollercoaster boring while you're building up to the first drop. Maybe go through a loop first. What's the alternative here? Oracle, Catwoman, and Nyssa can't be injured, attacked, kidnapped, die, or really be in any danger whatsoever because history has a precedence of bad things happening to women in comic books? Lord_Magmar posted:I still think Oracle's plot line is actually not that bad, at least not intentionally so. Discendo Vox posted:Please wait for the end of the Riddler sidequest before evaluating its portrayal of Catwoman's agency. mauman posted:Frankly I think you're out of line to disregard the firefighters, lab workers, Mad Hatter's cop hostages, or hell even the serial murder victims. akulanization posted:This line of reasoning precludes ever having a woman come to harm as a indirect result of the player's choices. akulanization posted:Do these kinds of gripes only apply to comic book games because of comics' long and lovely history of using women as props, or does every game need to follow this advice? akulanization posted:I'm not exactly eager to continue this discussion, but I honestly don't know what delineates an acceptable portrayal of women from an unacceptable one. GladRagKraken posted:That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. TwoPair posted:Yes, but unfortunately being centuries old leaves one with values several centuries old too, and thus Ra's doesn't really believe this whole "female leader" thing could possibly work
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Mar 22, 2016 04:03
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I'm not responding to everything, but I wanted to pick out two points that I disagreed with...Tiggum posted:They're not being disregarded, they're part of the problem. So far, male characters have been represented in every kind of role in this game, but the female characters are overwhelmingly used in one particular way - as passive objects existing to motivate a male character's actions. Ergh...you could kind of say that for the men too. For all his talk, Mr. Cash has often been kidnapped/beaten up/otherwise swept aside in the past, Gordon is kidnapped quite frequently, Robin and Nightwing seem to always get taken hostage/told to shut up whenever they try to do anything to help Batman in these games...and we're just talking main characters. If we're including NPC's, then literally every single male NPC in these games seem to be nothing but passive objects existing only to motivate Batman. If the game's sexist, then it's sexist towards BOTH genders. There are no men OR women who have any kind of agency; Instead, there is only...THE BATMAN... Tiggum posted:Well, it's not like there haven't been greatly respected female leaders throughout history all over the world. Maybe Ra's comes from a place and time where it would be unthinkable for a woman to be in charge, but maybe he doesn't. That maybe so, but it's always been my impression that said female leaders were the exception, not the rule. Obviously that's not the way things should be, but male chauvinism seems to be a pretty big hurdle to jump past, no matter which society you're in. Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 04:38
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Tiggum posted:It's not about bad things happening to female characters, it's about how female characters are used in the plot. Specifically, they're used to motivate the male characters rather than having their own stories. Catwoman gets kidnapped to make the Batman/Riddler story happen, Oracle gets kidnapped to make the Batman/Gordon story happen, Nyssa dies to show Batman that his actions have consequences. They're all just props in men's stories. Whose name is on the box? Every character in this game, with the exception of Batman, is used to motivate Batman. The plot centers around him, therefore everything done to the other characters is to add to his story. To drive him into action for some sidequest. Everyone is a prop in his story regardless of gender. If this were a Batgirl game, it'd be a different story. To reply to another comment you made, nobody in the game is going to have as much agency as Batman. He's the player character. If we were evaluating a tv series or movie that'd be one thing, but this is not that.
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Mar 22, 2016 04:57
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I believe the argument is that it remains annoying because of similar reasoning to the cookie theory. The cookie theory is used to explain in simple terms [simple enough for a two year old child] why whitewashing a minority role is worse than recasting a majority role as a minority; "Two people have plates with cookies. One person has three cookies. The other has thirty. If I take a cookie from each person, I'm being 'equally unfair', and hurting both the same, right?" Except that one person is losing 1/30th of their cookies while one is losing 1/3rd. Similarly, the fact that male characters as well as female characters are deprotagonized in the Arkham games holds less weight as an argument because female characters get damsel'd and fridge'd so frequently in games and comics and movies, and men so much less often; it is like punching two people five times each - one who is in the ICU and one who is in the peak of health. I may be hurting both 'equally', but one of the two has gotten hurt a lot more before me. Just my two cents on why the topic directs towards how badly sexist a game can be towards women and why 'but it's sexist towards dudes too so it's okay' doesn't hold much water. Thanks for the LP, dscruffy1, been enjoying not having to play this game to see it in action! Edit: Also, I think it may be worth reminding people that it's okay to like something that is written with questionable or problematic elements, and enjoying something written like that does not make you a Bad Person; just that it's wise to acknowledge and be aware of those elements, otherwise they'll never improve. This is an attack on the lazy writing, not on Batman. v:... is that argument literally "Let's only point out the absolute worst spoiled cream of the crop, the top 1% of terrible bad poo poo, and never talk about the rest and just sweep it quietly under the rug to stink and fester on its' own", or am I misreading? "Dictators are bad, but we should only talk about them in the context of Hitler and Stalin, and not mention Polpot or Mussolini." Ah, well, whatever. Made my one post on the subject. Nekomimi-Maiden fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 05:39
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Nekomimi-Maiden posted:Edit: Also, I think it may be worth reminding people that it's okay to like something that is written with questionable or problematic elements, and enjoying something written like that does not make you a Bad Person; just that it's wise to acknowledge and be aware of those elements, otherwise they'll never improve. This is an attack on the lazy writing, not on Batman. Here's the flipside to that though. If you go out of your way to remind people TOO often, to the point of annoyance, that's actually going to make them LESS likely to listen to you. Instead of associating your message with good things, they'll associate it with "oh gosh, it's one of THOSE people again...sigh...". It's basically the Malcom X approach vs. the Martin Luther King approach. Plus, if you start a really intense argument, only to then therefore lose it, you're only confirming the very viewpoints you're trying to chase away. By giving your opponents the satisfaction of an argument that they think they've won, you're making so that they're only going to be that much more hard-headed and stubborn in the future. In light of that, I think it would be best to save these kinds of derails for games that are more obviously indefensible. Like, say, Other M.
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Mar 22, 2016 06:04
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Don't worry kids, even without the sexism, Arkham Knight's writing would still be pretty godawful. (We've got a way to fall)
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Mar 22, 2016 06:05
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Fionordequester posted:Here's the flipside to that though. If you go out of your way to remind people TOO often, to the point of annoyance, that's actually going to make them LESS likely to listen to you. Instead of associating your message with good things, they'll associate it with "oh gosh, it's one of THOSE people again...sigh...". It's basically the Malcom X approach vs. the Martin Luther King approach. To be fair, Martin Luther King Jr. in his day was treated as one of THOSE people. He hadn't yet been killed and turned into some meme-ified ideal for white people to use against the wrong kind of black people.
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Mar 22, 2016 06:14
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Tiggum posted:It would work fine if they both lived. You just have Nyssa make the point that they're going to continue fighting now and innocent people are going to get caught in the crossfire. Whereas this way Nyssa is the only one who dies as a result of Batman's decision, and she's an assassin, not an innocent bystander. I disagree, it'd resonates much less and it gives Batman an easy out from what was intended as a provocative moral dilemma. I doubt posters would've spent a few pages talking about which option was right and which one was wrong, and providing their own insights into Batman's MO, had Bruce just said everybody lives! at the end of the quest like he usually does. Holding Bats somehow responsible for the crimes, the deaths of generic innocents and the like, that other individuals commit because Batman refused to kill those individuals before they committed those crimes is so old hat it's pretty much the status quo for anything Gotham. Putting a face to that puts the issue in perspective. I'm not saying the quest was perfect as is but I like that they didn't give Batman an obviously optimal solution (for him), though posters will def prefer one scenario over the other. quote:Well, you either have to use your own culture as context or try to use the authors', and in this case they're pretty much the same, so what difference does it make? Nothing exists without context, you can't pretend that this game exists on its own with no influences or implications. The ongoing issue here has been that complaints have been delivered in essentially real time, rather than finishing the game and then forming an impression, and from those partial impressions posters are forming holistic critiques about very general subject treatments. Posters will pipe in with their own pet improvements only to find a couple videos down the line that some suggestions were actually already there, in the game that was released a year ago. At that point you're not accurately criticizing the real content of the game when you're so ready to jump the gun on event interpretation (events that may hardly seem out place later when everyone, full-stop, is facing and losing to their demons). The only reason you'd be so quick to jump the gun in the first place is when you're already assuming the game is being bad about things the moment you pick up the controller. If you're doing that, you are using your own culture to fill in the gaps you're not seeing yet and that's hardly fair - your own context is overly coloring your expectations. Anyway, I'd just prefer that this subject comes up and gets discussed somewhere around endgame (yes I fully expect posters to critique using their own cultures as a base then) rather than discussed every video, just so we don't have to move forward by assumption when it hasn't gotten anyone anywhere yet. I might not even be arguing against anyone if we were doing this at endgame but here we are, futilely discussing stuff the people who've already finished the game know about for sure and are politely abstaining so we can fuss over what's essentially minutiae next to the whole of the game.
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Mar 22, 2016 06:15
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FicusArt posted:To be fair, Martin Luther King Jr. in his day was treated as one of THOSE people. He hadn't yet been killed and turned into some meme-ified ideal for white people to use against the wrong kind of black people. But he certainly isn't remembered as "one of THOSE people", was he? Heck, even Jesus was "one of THOSE people", before Christianity got started. What's important here, though, is that the detractors of both those people were wrong. If they were actually RIGHT about those two people? Well then, they would have had a lot less impact than they ended up having.
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Mar 22, 2016 06:28
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Fionordequester posted:But he certainly isn't remembered as "one of THOSE people", was he? Heck, even Jesus was "one of THOSE people", before Christianity got started. What's important here, though, is that the detractors of both those people were wrong. If they were actually RIGHT about those two people? Well then, they would have had a lot less impact than they ended up having. He isn't remembered as 'one of those people' because he isn't actually remembered culturally as he was. He's been replaced with some safe fabrication. A symbol that upholds the status queue. Edit: The reason I say this, is because his modern counterparts are still treated as "Those people" FicusArt fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 06:42
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Fionordequester posted:Ergh...you could kind of say that for the men too. For all his talk, Mr. Cash has often been kidnapped/beaten up/otherwise swept aside in the past, Gordon is kidnapped quite frequently, Robin and Nightwing seem to always get taken hostage/told to shut up whenever they try to do anything to help Batman in these games...and we're just talking main characters. If we're including NPC's, then literally every single male NPC in these games seem to be nothing but passive objects existing only to motivate Batman. SonicRulez posted:Whose name is on the box? Every character in this game, with the exception of Batman, is used to motivate Batman. The plot centers around him, therefore everything done to the other characters is to add to his story. To drive him into action for some sidequest. Everyone is a prop in his story regardless of gender. hard counter posted:The ongoing issue here has been that complaints have been delivered in essentially real time, rather than finishing the game and then forming an impression hard counter posted:Anyway, I'd just prefer that this subject comes up and gets discussed somewhere around endgame (yes I fully expect posters to critique using their own cultures as a base then) rather than discussed every video, just so we don't have to move forward by assumption when it hasn't gotten anyone anywhere yet.
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Mar 22, 2016 06:44
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Sexism goes both ways, y'know. Where are female thugs for Batman to beat up?
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Mar 22, 2016 06:48
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Why would I wait until the end of the game when the stupid poo poo is turning me off the game right now? By this point if I were playing myself, I could put the game down and never see the dramatic twist that somehow makes the game's treatment of Oracle and Catwoman retroactively ok
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Mar 22, 2016 06:52
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Tiggum posted:That's not true at all. Some male characters are, sure. But what about the active villains? You can't replace the Riddler or Scarecrow or the Mad Hatter with literal objects and have the plot play out the same way, because without someone trying to do bad things there's no need for Batman. Well then, you can say the exact same thing about Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn, Talia, and Oracle then. Harley was an instrumental part of Joker's plan in Asylum, Ivy's plants were used to create and cure the Titan Venom in Asylum, Catwoman held Batman's life in her hands near the end of City, Talia was the person who stopped Harley from giving the Joker his cure in City...and I don't think I even need to get into Oracle. Honestly, if we're using the passive object argument, the females pass quite handily. Sure, there aren't as many violent female criminals, but then, that's the way it is in real life. Men, after all, tend to be responsible for a pretty large chunk of violent crime, as shown in this 2011 FBI Report here... https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table_66_arrests_suburban_areas_by_sex_2011.xls Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 06:57
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Tiggum posted:That's fine though, because we're only discussing elements of the story as they appear. We're not talking about the game as a whole yet, because we're not up to that. And maybe the game improves as it goes on, but that doesn't change this bit that we're talking about. Can you analyse and episode or a season of a TV show on its own or do you have to talk about the entire series every time? I'd love for someone to do an episode by episode critique of Skyler's character in breaking bad in a thread where everyone has already watched it and not have the interpretation fly wildly off-base to the irritation of everyone because the puzzle hasn't been put together yet, despite a rather consistent characterization. It's understandable when everyone's at the same level but it's definitely fair to ask someone that's behind to settle down. You're acting like retrospect and revelation aren't possible and past events can't find their place in the whole. Already in this thread we're getting posts like 'wait for the end of the plot thread please' which is slightly edging on spoiler territory. quote:So what sort of discussion would be possible during the LP then? Not holistic critiques of general subject treatments (more appropriate for the games thread)? The thread's had pretty good discussions of the side quests, speculation about the AK's identity, mechanics and stuff like that which is more in alignment with a non-spoiler thread.
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Mar 22, 2016 07:05
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hard counter posted:Not holistic critiques of general subject treatments (more appropriate for the games thread)? The thread's had pretty good discussions of the side quests, speculation about the AK's identity, mechanics and stuff like that which is more in alignment with a non-spoiler thread. And if you do REALLY want to continue critiquing this...then all you have to do is go watch the game's story mode on Youtube. Go ahead, watch the game in it's entirety, see if what you're saying really holds up. Sure, you won't have the luxury of viewing it via Scruffy's videos, but at least you won't automatically get "JUST WAIT TILL LATER DUDE!" as the first response to all of your arguments.
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Mar 22, 2016 07:09
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IBlameRoadSuess posted:I finished the game. 100%. On the PSVita. TWICE. I'm sorry to hear that, honestly  Nekomimi-Maiden posted:Edit: Also, I think it may be worth reminding people that it's okay to like something that is written with questionable or problematic elements, and enjoying something written like that does not make you a Bad Person; just that it's wise to acknowledge and be aware of those elements, otherwise they'll never improve. This is an attack on the lazy writing, not on Batman. The writing in this is bad, but it's easily one of the best games from a gameplay standpoint, and I personally think the scarecrow stuff is legitimately good; he's handled well in this game, I think.
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Mar 22, 2016 08:52
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Fionordequester posted:Well then, you can say the exact same thing about Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn, Talia, and Oracle then. Harley was an instrumental part of Joker's plan in Asylum, Ivy's plants were used to create and cure the Titan Venom in Asylum, Catwoman held Batman's life in her hands near the end of City, Talia was the person who stopped Harley from giving the Joker his cure in City...and I don't think I even need to get into Oracle. hard counter posted:You're acting like retrospect and revelation aren't possible and past events can't find their place in the whole. Fionordequester posted:And if you do REALLY want to continue critiquing this...then all you have to do is go watch the game's story mode on Youtube.
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Mar 22, 2016 09:46
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Fionordequester posted:If the game's sexist, then it's sexist towards BOTH genders. There are no men OR women who have any kind of agency; Instead, there is only...THE BATMAN... This only flies if Batman is a genderless automaton with a cast of equally represented villains and allies, whose gender doesn't come into the game with a laundry list of previous installments which belittle one of the genders to a degree much greater than another. Batman's a male character with a largely male cast of villains, with a large cast of male allies that have been well-represented in this game, with a cast of female villains and allies that have, so far, been leveraged much more than the male cast for the sole purpose of driving other plots forward instead of having them drive the plot forward. Fionordequester posted:Here's the flipside to that though. If you go out of your way to remind people TOO often, to the point of annoyance, that's actually going to make them LESS likely to listen to you. Instead of associating your message with good things, they'll associate it with "oh gosh, it's one of THOSE people again...sigh...". It's basically the Malcom X approach vs. the Martin Luther King approach. Plus, if you start a really intense argument, only to then therefore lose it, you're only confirming the very viewpoints you're trying to chase away. By giving your opponents the satisfaction of an argument that they think they've won, you're making so that they're only going to be that much more hard-headed and stubborn in the future. This entire point is a complete, stinking pile of horse poo poo that focuses on controlling the tone of an argument instead of attempting to respond to points, and it grossly whitewashes MLK's involvement in the Civil Rights movement while further demonizing Malcom X, which is a heavily leaned-upon historical revisionist line of thinking. You could not have crafted a worse response without being a literal strawman of somebody crafting an argument for them to effortlessly blow down in a 100-level CR Sociology class.
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Mar 22, 2016 09:48
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Tiggum posted:Well, I don't remember a lot of the details of those other games, but that would be a separate discussion anyway since we're not talking about how those characters were treated in those other games, we're talking about this game. I do remember that Poison Ivy had genuine goals and motives in Asylum as did Oracle in City, but the rest of the stuff you mention I don't recall. But even if all those examples are valid, they're not part of this game. I don't think you can just say that though. These may be separate games, but they're all a part of one over-arching narrative. They're as much "separate stories" as the LoTR books are separate from each other (or Harry Potter for that matter. No, I don't have to do that, because it is perfectly valid to talk about individual parts of a piece of media in isolation! [/quote] It is. But if you're too hasty...well, let's use some examples. In the Matrix, Morpheus is one of THE most awesome fighters in the franchise...and yet... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wUVGz4WMdQ The guy is made to look like a complete pushover in the above video. Does that mean that he is, in fact, a pushover? Of course not, and you'd know that if you watched the rest of the series. Or, let's look at Star Wars: A New Hope. It was a groundbreaking, awesome movie with great, well-written, iconic characters... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kpHK4YIwY4 And yet, it happens to have perhaps the stupidest, dumbest looking "sword fight" I've ever seen. Stare in AWE at the guy dressed like an Anime character! Witness the EPIC fight between an old man, and a guy in a mask who can't see very well! Just LOOK at that choreography! Look at how they spend the whole fight awkwardly cherry-tapping each other! And that camera-work, my goodness! Yeah, you just GOTTA have those ultra zoomed in shots on their faces...really uh, EMPHASIZES the action that way  ...... Seriously though, this isn't an insult to you. I'm just saying that you're really setting yourself up here. You can do as you want, but you may very well end up eating crow by the end. And if that happens, your only two choices are to take back everything you said (which means that you helped derail the thread for no good reason), or keep arguing about how you're still right (which only further escalates the conflict). Neither of those sound like very good options to me, personally. EDIT: Or heck, here's another good example... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmkVWuP_sO0 Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 10:08
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Fionordequester posted:I don't think you can just say that though. These may be separate games, but they're all a part of one over-arching narrative. They're as much "separate stories" as the LoTR books are separate from each other (or Harry Potter for that matter. Yeessss? And each book can be taken in isolation, and that's actually a part of literary criticism, where the book is taken in isolation to judge how well it references past events. Just as a reviewer can, will, and has gauged the story by judging how many people would be turned off at X point in the game. Some players will go "gently caress this" at the Riddler's repetitive bullshit. Some of them will go "gently caress this" at Oracle's capture. Some will go "gently caress this" when they work out who the Arkham Knight is before the reveal, because it's a really badly kept secret. So yeah, it is perfectly fine to call out "It gets better later!" as bullshit, because, if it were a movie, folks would already have walked out. And yeah, people walk out on games, with no guarantee they'll come back to them. "It gets better later" is acknowledging that, right now, there are problems, and what the "Just wait, it'll all become justified" folks are forgetting is that yes, they're going to look like idiots when, in fact, it gets worse. ...And we both know that something's going to get worse. We already know that some aspects of the game will either get better, or seem better. We already know that some aspects of the game have been set in stone from moment one: The "nonlethal" Batmobile, for example, is a farce, and won't stop being a farce because they keep telling us it isn't. Francine Langstrom remains dead, and if she somehow isn't dead? Well, that doesn't reflect well on us, who didn't even check the body. And sadly, context doesn't really make it better. Ivy had the disappointing boss fight in the first game, and the five, ten minutes of screentime in the second, and is still male gazey as gently caress in visual design, after four games. Oh, and she's vanished from the plot so far, despite being a rather obvious Chekhov's Gun in that the Scarecrow toxin doesn't affect her. I'm sure she'll be brought out when it's necessary to find out what's going on there, and not before. I don't need a walkthrough or anything like that to tell me this, because the game all but hit me over the head with how she's the only one not affected so far. So I'd be willing to lay money that her entire role in the main story is to somehow neutralise Scarecrow's toxin... And I don't think any of you will take me up on this. Does that, then, get better? Does she maybe get to do a bit of turnabout afterward, do her own thing which isn't a Chekhov's Gun thing? I don't know yet. But I'm almost certain she'll be the way the toxin's neutralised, one way or another, not just because this game has made it obvious, but because it's a DC writer's go-to.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:25
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scruffy, you butt t
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Mar 22, 2016 12:26
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Mods, please rename the thread to A Series Of Bat-Discussions.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:39
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RareAcumen posted:Mods, please rename the thread to A Series Of Bat-Discussions. Seconded. Seriously you could easily mistake this for an debate&discussion thread at this point, which is you know fine if it wasn't in the WRONG FORUM FOR THAT. But that's just my 2 cents. Edit: CuwiKhons posted:I don't know why people get so mad that this conversation is happening. People are talking about it because that's what's going on in the part of the game Scruffy's in right now. What would you like us to talk about? There's not a whole lot else going on. Probably because bringing up and rehashing the same subject/topic every other page ad infinitum gets tiresome fast? Zero grinder fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 13:21
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I don't know why people get so mad that this conversation is happening. People are talking about it because that's what's going on in the part of the game Scruffy's in right now. What would you like us to talk about? There's not a whole lot else going on.
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Mar 22, 2016 13:28
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death .cab for qt posted:This entire point is a complete, stinking pile of horse poo poo that focuses on controlling the tone of an argument instead of attempting to respond to points, and it grossly whitewashes MLK's involvement in the Civil Rights movement while further demonizing Malcom X, which is a heavily leaned-upon historical revisionist line of thinking. You could not have crafted a worse response without being a literal strawman of somebody crafting an argument for them to effortlessly blow down in a 100-level CR Sociology class. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr posted:"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." Thank you for reminding me of that quote, Death.cab. AnnihEhlated: I'd be more than happy to have a greater presence of female opposition in the generic thugs if that is what is desired - But I'd want that to come concurrently with a more balanced treatment of the female [and yes, male] characters as well - it'd be preferable to have a better-written story where Batman's allies actually seem capable and intelligent [before they get captured or otherwise made into motivators], and not simply helpless motivators for the player. But eh. The point's been harangued enough until the next video that makes another female character out to be incapable without Batman. Nekomimi-Maiden fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 13:37
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Yeah, we might want to shelve this for a bit, at least until we get a little more plot. I don't think any other sidequests pop up for a while, so not much will stand in the way.
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Mar 22, 2016 14:20
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Actually there's something I want to talk about right now that is an incredibly minor and insanely picky detail but it drives me up the loving wall. You know the image we get of Riddler every time Scruffy rides an elevator down into a race track or he's doing whatever puzzle - that projected image of him with the weirdly small goggles and his doofy hawaiian shirt? That's not his actual in game model. It's not just that the design is dumb - he genuinely doesn't look like that, and he didn't look like that in any of the promotional materials so I can't imagine it was meant to be a surprise that Riddler turned out to be as gaunt and unhealthy looking as he actually is. What the gently caress is up with those projections?
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Mar 22, 2016 14:38
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CuwiKhons posted:I don't know why people get so mad that this conversation is happening. People are talking about it because that's what's going on in the part of the game Scruffy's in right now. What would you like us to talk about? There's not a whole lot else going on. Oh don't misread my post, I'm not mad about the conversations or anything. I just don't really have anything I can add to them at all. 
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Mar 22, 2016 14:44
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