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I didn't read the book. "Forget about the Yellow Card Man!" amused me.
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Mar 18, 2016 04:57
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Lycus posted:I didn't read the book. "Forget about the Yellow Card Man!" amused me. Yeah, if time travel grandpa all of a sudden got so defensive about something like that I definitely would've pressed him on it. I wonder what Al knew about him? What had him so spooked? I haven't read the book so I hope we find out (probably in the last 5 minutes of the last episode).
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Mar 18, 2016 05:52
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As a book reader, I have to agree the show's been really crappy with the Yellow Card Man. They should have made the card in his hat stand out more (I cant even see it half the time, there's not enough contrast there, and it should be in the front like a press card in a hat). They should have brought him up at least a couple of times. And they shouldn't have been quite SO shadowy with him in the background. He's been a bit mishandled, and I think it's fair if people are really confused.
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Mar 18, 2016 08:34
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Problematic Pigeon posted:Because it looks nothing like his place in Dallas, no one except Bill knows about the place in Dallas, and the recording stuff was set up to play in plain sight by the Yellow Card Man. Except for Miss Mimi, who has visited him there while Jake n Billy were in the middle of Oswald planning, and requiring Jake to kick Billy to one of the side rooms. Plus they've already moved places in Dallas, so excuse people for being confused about exactly what spot Jake is currently chilling at at any given moment.
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Mar 18, 2016 18:08
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savinhill posted:Except for Miss Mimi, who has visited him there while Jake n Billy were in the middle of Oswald planning, and requiring Jake to kick Billy to one of the side rooms. Plus they've already moved places in Dallas, so excuse people for being confused about exactly what spot Jake is currently chilling at at any given moment. You thought that Jake took a bus to Sadie's house and that they just cut out the bus riding scene for dramatic effect. Don't try to weasel your way out of this, stand by your horrible, horrible TV watching skills. 
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Mar 18, 2016 18:14
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waitwhatno posted:You thought that Jake took a bus to Sadie's house and that they just cut out the bus riding scene for dramatic effect. Don't try to weasel your way out of this, stand by your horrible, horrible TV watching skills. Pretty sure no one actually thought this. It was just a hypothetical dumb explanation for why he was running instead of driving right to her house. The fact that she apparently walked to his house suggests that maybe they did live close enough that he'd just run, but it's hardly been established conclusively and the running scene did seem weird.
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Mar 18, 2016 18:18
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Tiggum posted:The fact that she apparently walked to his house suggests that maybe they did live close enough that he'd just run, but it's hardly been established conclusively and the running scene did seem weird. It was conclusively established in the scene where he ran to her house, instead of taking the car.
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Mar 18, 2016 18:26
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I really want to see Jake sitting anxiously on a bus waiting for it to get to the right spot as frantic music plays but everyone else on the bus is normal.
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Mar 18, 2016 18:28
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waitwhatno posted:You thought that Jake took a bus to Sadie's house and that they just cut out the bus riding scene for dramatic effect. Don't try to weasel your way out of this, stand by your horrible, horrible TV watching skills. lol, my bad TV watchin skills got nothing on your bad post reading skills if you think I seriously thought Jake took a bus to save his kidnapped, "in the middle of being tortured & having her life threatened by a psycho if Jake doesn't get there in time" soulmate Alright, I don't think you were serious after reading this a second time, but this is TVIV after all Tiggum posted:Pretty sure no one actually thought this. It was just a hypothetical dumb explanation for why he was running instead of driving right to her house. The fact that she apparently walked to his house suggests that maybe they did live close enough that he'd just run, but it's hardly been established conclusively and the running scene did seem weird. Exactly this too. I don't understand why people can't accept people jokingly(or not) criticizing goofy and half-baked aspects of the show and cast them as terribly unskilled and uninformed TV viewers instead. savinhill fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 18:31
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For my part I have to come 100% clean and say I really had no idea he was living so close to Sadie, I assumed he ran all the way to her house or took the bus.
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Mar 18, 2016 19:12
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savinhill posted:Except for Miss Mimi, who has visited him there while Jake n Billy were in the middle of Oswald planning, and requiring Jake to kick Billy to one of the side rooms. Plus they've already moved places in Dallas, so excuse people for being confused about exactly what spot Jake is currently chilling at at any given moment. Whoops, forgot about Miss Mimi. Your bad TV watching skills are forgiven.
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Mar 18, 2016 20:16
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Basebf555 posted:For my part I have to come 100% clean and say I really had no idea he was living so close to Sadie, I assumed he ran all the way to her house or took the bus. Understandable if you've never lived in a small town. 
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Mar 19, 2016 01:02
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Began reading the book last week, about 40% in. It's nice how the show takes an almost completely different take on almost everything so both versions are interesting in their own way, James Franco's Jake is very different from book Jake but very interesting in his own right. What I think many people itt will like more about the book is the way it delves deeper into Jake's decision making process and the somewhat difficult logistics he has to deal with due to the time travel. Some minor background spoilers mainly concerning the tone of the work and things that aren't quite as apparent in the show: The book makes it plenty clear that Jake's adventures take place in King's haunted version of reality where some places have literal interdimensional evil mojo lurking about and this is something Jake is just plain aware of and can seemingly sense which would tonally not really fit in with the more realistic tone of the show, the book makes it sound like Oswald himself is partly influenced by these evil spirits that just make people go bad, but really that's just standard King I guess.. Overall, would recommend to people who like the show and felt like they could do with more detail and few more zany time travel adventures.
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Mar 20, 2016 10:36
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Some minor background spoilers mainly concerning the tone of the work and things that aren't quite as apparent in the show: The book makes it plenty clear that Jake's adventures take place in King's haunted version of reality where some places have literal interdimensional evil mojo lurking about and this is something Jake is just plain aware of and can seemingly sense which would tonally not really fit in with the more realistic tone of the show, the book makes it sound like Oswald himself is partly influenced by these evil spirits that just make people go bad, but really that's just standard King I guess.. I haven't read 11/22/63, but I'm sure there's plenty of subtle references in it to the Dark Tower. The premise of the book itself is very much connected to The Dark Tower, JFK being named in one of the books as "The Last Gunslinger". Its possible JFK was someone who had taken on the role of The Gunslinger, i.e. standing against the Crimson King and preventing him from taking over the multiverse. So the Crimson King could be responsible for the assassination somehow. The Dark Tower is also where King lays out structure of his universe and explains that its slowly falling apart, creating little cracks where one reality can bleed into another one, or even worse into primordial darkness(filled with monsters of course). The time portal is almost certainly one of these "thinnys".
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Mar 21, 2016 18:40
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Man this is just going downhill fast. 
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Mar 22, 2016 00:46
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Two episodes left and he has a case of explosive amnesia?
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Mar 22, 2016 03:43
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What did George say to Lee? I couldn't understand.
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Mar 22, 2016 06:52
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Cojawfee posted:Two episodes left and he has a case of explosive amnesia? Sure seems like this is leading to an unresolved cliffhanger, and the show probably won't even get a second season so I guess we wasted our time. I'll have to read the book to find out of he saved JFK!
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Mar 22, 2016 15:27
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This sort of narrative is almost never concluded with the protagonist killing hitler and happily living in an alternate version of reality forever after, it's pretty obvious I think that 11.22.63 is at its core a variation on La Jetée\12 Monkeys. Usually time travel stories whose premise is 'changing the past' either have the alternate history schtick happen early enough so that the narrative actually follows up on the variations\butterfly-effect-shenanigans in depth or otherwise has the protagonist ultimately fail towards the end of the narrative. With 11.22.63 and how heavily it focuses on Jake's relationship with Sadie I think it's pretty obvious it's gonna be a La Jetee scenario where he opts to live in the past.
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Mar 22, 2016 15:34
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OK, so he already learned in episode one about how making huge bets was a super dumb idea. I get that he needed a lot of money in a hurry, but what did he think was going to happen? How was he expecting this to play out?
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Mar 22, 2016 16:35
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The problem was that Bill was also placing bets.
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Mar 22, 2016 16:56
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He was making medium sized bets all around town, not realizing that they were all owned by the same guy.
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Mar 22, 2016 18:02
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Yes, and then Bill made several of the same, large bets at multiple places which is what really pushed the bookie over the edge.
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Mar 22, 2016 18:12
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Tiggum posted:OK, so he already learned in episode one about how making huge bets was a super dumb idea. I get that he needed a lot of money in a hurry, but what did he think was going to happen? How was he expecting this to play out? That happened in the pilot so it doesn't count, same with his betting book and other future materials getting burned up or "you shouldn't be here" getting used constantly.
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Mar 22, 2016 19:41
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The fact that Jake didn't reset immediately after finding out that Bill had been chumming it up with LHO, and porking his wife is unforgivable. This show jumped the time-travelling shark. Jake's actions belie his stated motivation to save JFK, so I don't know what this show is doing anymore.
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Mar 22, 2016 19:43
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That's something that the slower build up of the book handles better, in the book the time portal exits to 1958, so about 3 years of every try are spent basically just living in the past doing nothing that's related to Oswald or Kennedy, going at it another time is just a massive investment on Jake's part so it's very obvious why he'd rather see the current iteration through before hitting the reset button regardless of how messed up things have become.
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Mar 22, 2016 19:52
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The show is using Sadie as the primary reason why he wouldn't reset unless he absolutely had to. If he resets their entire relationship is erased, and this isn't some highly trained agent or anything, he's just a regular guy trying to do the best he can. Its perfectly understandable that he wouldn't have the discipline to just walk away from someone he's in love with.
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Mar 22, 2016 20:37
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Meh, mediocre. I really don't give a poo poo about the Kennedy storyline anymore. We haven't seen Kennedy since the pilot and all that stuff with Lee and the Russian expat amounted to absolutely nothing. Nothing happened, certainly nothing of interest. The falling out with Bill is complete nonsensical. Sadie is the only part of the show that I really care about a little bit and it's absolutely not enough to carry the whole show.
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Mar 22, 2016 21:40
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I feel like Bill is the past pushing back. Just because he is (was?) close to Jake doesn't mean he's immune or he isn't part of the past. His relationship with Marina is like the car careening through the phone booth. Ninja edit: It's kind of nonsensical because Bill doesn't realize he's under some supernatural influence that's making him nonsensical.
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Mar 22, 2016 21:47
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Basebf555 posted:The show is using Sadie as the primary reason why he wouldn't reset unless he absolutely had to. If he resets their entire relationship is erased, and this isn't some highly trained agent or anything, he's just a regular guy trying to do the best he can. Its perfectly understandable that he wouldn't have the discipline to just walk away from someone he's in love with. I would so throw Kennedy to the wolves for Sadie without a moment's hesitation or reservation that the Yellow Hat Guy's Color would go down about five risk threat levels and I wouldn't have to worry at all about the past loving me up for placing any huge bet I wanted.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:16
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ExtraNoise posted:I feel like Bill is the past pushing back. Just because he is (was?) close to Jake doesn't mean he's immune or he isn't part of the past. I totally agree, and maybe its clearer in the book. I know someone here mentioned that in the book, King makes it much more clear that there's some sort of interdimensional evil at play that is capable of influencing people's minds. That sounds very similar to how "IT" appeared to Henry Bowers and made him do hosed up poo poo.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:23
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Oh, and another thing from this episode. There was another time skip (six months this time) and it occurred to me that we didn't miss anything. Nor in the two-year jump earlier. When time jumps forward, nothing happens. The date changes but it's like the world was basically just frozen in place that whole time. It seems to relate to Oswald not being around, so if he was the focus of the story then it would make sense, but since the show is far more about the non-Oswald stuff it doesn't make sense.
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Mar 23, 2016 03:06
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This episode had terrible fight choreography. Franco looked like he was getting slapped. The also did that thing where they take a popular song and sing it slowly, with a different key/moody music. poo poo's been a peeve of mine since Age of Ultron made it hip. I know the big criticism is that the personal relationship stuff is getting in the way of all the cool time-travel related plot that could be happening, but I really enjoy the way that The Past Fights Back is turning Jake's past relationships into liabilities.
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Mar 23, 2016 06:38
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FilthyImp posted:I know the big criticism is that the personal relationship stuff is getting in the way of all the cool time-travel related plot that could be happening, but I really enjoy the way that The Past Fights Back is turning Jake's past relationships into liabilities.
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Mar 23, 2016 08:20
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Basebf555 posted:The show is using Sadie as the primary reason why he wouldn't reset unless he absolutely had to. If he resets their entire relationship is erased, and this isn't some highly trained agent or anything, he's just a regular guy trying to do the best he can. Its perfectly understandable that he wouldn't have the discipline to just walk away from someone he's in love with. Yeahbut, he's an English teacher which means he knows about time travel (in litterature, at least) and the consequences of it. It has been shown that his final impetus to decide to try to save JFK is the janitor not being able to get his promotion despite his GED. So he wants to save him too. He does, but then he goes on to Dallas instead of checking if it worked (yes, I know Bill had a gun on him - there's been plenty of time since). He hadn't even met Sadie yet at this point. Chekhov's gun has been brought up before - you can't just introduce an element in a plot and then ignore it. I'm all for genre-defying media and whatnot, but so far I have seen nothing to suggest this is anything but a straight action-sci-fi thriller romance thing. He KNOWS about time travel, he KNOWS about the reset, he put a mark on a small tree and watched it on the grown tree, he knows he can start over with Sadie, but his actions doesn't show he knows. Jake's actions are inexplicable, that's why the show has lost me. To clarify further: The show has lost me on the plot level with Chechov's gun up there, and on a character level with Jake doing things I don't think follows from his knowledge. brylcreem fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Mar 23, 2016 |
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Mar 23, 2016 10:00
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No, Jake's actions are fully explicable ocne you factor in the fact that a "do over" with Sadie will not be authentic and perhaps more importantly that the moment he steps back through the rabbit hole there's gonna be a version of Sadie that will live out through the next 50 or so years abandoned, whether he resets or not the 50 years will be real for this one version of Sadie. This is something that occupies Jake's mind quite frequently in the book, the fact that even if he resets poo poo the people whom he wrongs\doesn't-save will still experience the consequence of his actions. Book spoilers concerning what Jake's up to between 1958 and 1960 in the book: In the book Jake wants to prove the Butterfly effect hypothesis by actually saving someone's life, he obviously selects the family of Harry the janitor who gets slaughtered by his psychopathic and drunk father, as he winds up to the rescue attempt (which he goes through twice due to partially loving things up the first time) he comes to the realization that even though he intends to do a reset so he could verify whether saving them had an effect on the future\present he should still do his best in every iteration cause their suffering would be very much real. .
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Mar 23, 2016 10:09
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emanresu tnuocca posted:No, Jake's actions are fully explicable ocne you factor in the fact that a "do over" with Sadie will not be authentic and perhaps more importantly that the moment he steps back through the rabbit hole there's gonna be a version of Sadie that will live out through the next 50 or so years abandoned, whether he resets or not the 50 years will be real for this one version of Sadie.
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Mar 23, 2016 10:14
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Tiggum posted:Well, that depends entirely on how time travel works. If there's only one timeline then a reset means that anything that happened last time just didn't happen. If each trip back creates a new timeline then it's impossible to change the past, all you're doing is switching into a different parallel timeline and everything that already happened stays happened, so you're not really saving JFK anyway, you're just abandoning the world in which died for one in which he didn't. If saving JFK is worth doing for anything more than purely personal, selfish reasons then there's no reason to not use as many do-overs as you want. ^^ All that, plus Even if Jake is thinking this hard about it, it hasn't been shown. I don't need everything explained to me, but there has to be some indication of what a protagonist is thinking in a TV show; he can't just make decisions out of nowhere. If the viewers have to fanwank his motivations, then the TV show has failed.
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Mar 23, 2016 10:17
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I am not fanwanking his motivations, It's stuff that he internal-monologues over in the book. You could argue that it's still a failure on behalf of the show that they didn't delve into any of this but it's in no way poo poo I just made up. In the book he believes that every time he goes back to the present the interim time period will be experienced by everyone who's left behind, this includes Sadie. He never even entertains the notion of diverging timelines and parallel realities, for what it's worth.
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Mar 23, 2016 10:21
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At this point in the book and the novel, Jake has no idea which version of time travel he's dealing with.
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Mar 23, 2016 10:25
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