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Bob Quixote posted:This a serious post or sarcasm? I know that fantasy as a whole tends to have some pretty wonky and terrible stuff in terms of racial politics and the Other and all that jazz, but its not like Blizzard does a much better job when they have their own fantasy races act as exaggerated stand-in's for different racial stereotypes (unless its one of the 'pretty' races in which case its just white guy, short angry drinky white guy, really short gadgety white guy or purple guy who is kind of a hippie). What racial stereotype is orcs?
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Mar 22, 2016 03:30
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CJ posted:What racial stereotype is orcs? Gee, what possible racial stereotype could the tribal brown skinned savages who worship spirits be.
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Mar 22, 2016 03:35
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Tauren are way more analogous to Native Americans than orcs are. The orcs kind of just give me Celtic pagan vibes, skin color aside.
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Mar 22, 2016 03:37
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Lurdiak posted:Gee, what possible racial stereotype could the tribal brown skinned savages who worship spirits be. Well spit it out, because to me they are just a non-descript pre-civilization tribal race. They don't seem to appropriate any one culture like the Taurens or Trolls do.
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Mar 22, 2016 03:42
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CJ posted:Well spit it out, because to me they are just a non-descript pre-civilization tribal race. They don't seem to appropriate any one culture like the Taurens or Trolls do. Yeah, the orcs are as congruent of an ethnicity as Ben Kingsley in Iron Man 3 is. You can see elements of Native Americans, black people, Jews, etc, but it's all a mixture together.
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Mar 22, 2016 03:47
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CJ posted:What racial stereotype is orcs? I guess if you wanted to get super specific you could say they have a sort of asian/mongol/samurai vibe since their Blademaster unit goes around with a big flag banner on their back and a curved sword and is all about things like codes of honor and other stereotypical asian stuff that gets thrown into roleplaying games, but honestly even without being a specific racial stereotype "noble savage" is still pretty bad just by itself. Here's a GIS of that Blademaster unit I mentioned: https://www.google.com/search?q=orcish+blademaster&biw=1366&bih=667&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwitqq-oo9PLAhXG6iYKHRKnAmcQ_AUIBigB
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Mar 22, 2016 03:52
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The Orcish Horde draws much from European fears of the peoples of the Asian Steppe, who were allies of Sauron in Lord of the Rings.
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Mar 22, 2016 04:05
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Bob Quixote posted:I guess if you wanted to get super specific you could say they have a sort of asian/mongol/samurai vibe since their Blademaster unit goes around with a big flag banner on their back and a curved sword and is all about things like codes of honor and other stereotypical asian stuff that gets thrown into roleplaying games, but honestly even without being a specific racial stereotype "noble savage" is still pretty bad just by itself. The Orcs are the only race in the Warcraft universe allowed to have more than one distinct culture, which is funny. They doubled down on "ALL HUMANS ARE WHITE" so hard in WoW that they had the progenitors to humanity be giant Viking dudes from the North.
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Mar 22, 2016 06:27
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Jesus loving Christ. I remember when I was in primary school, I legit thought Warcraft was better at world building than any book series. It's cool to have reminders that, as dumb as I am now, I used to be even dumber.
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Mar 22, 2016 06:31
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Blizzard kitchen sinking the orcs with all sorts of one-off characters who don't matter doesn't make them more complex than their clear roots post-Warcraft 3, the American Indians. They get herded onto reservations after a conflict that destroys their ancient lands, for Christ's sake. It would be nice if the parallel went deeper than "Hollywood's idea of Indians + they are green and spirits are real." Their natural allies are the buffalofolk. I mean really. Orcs have a mishmash of discarded creative ideas and aesthetics pinned to them from retcon after retcon, but the central theme is unclear only to deliberately obtuse goonlords. I guess there's also trolls, "indigenous cultures according to H.P. Lovecraft."
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Mar 22, 2016 07:18
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Blizzard kitchen sinking the orcs with all sorts of one-off characters who don't matter doesn't make them more complex than their clear roots post-Warcraft 3, the American Indians. They get herded onto reservations after a conflict that destroys their ancient lands, for Christ's sake. I thought they were sold into chattel slavery.
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Mar 22, 2016 07:30
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computer parts posted:I thought they were sold into chattel slavery. Chattel slavery would imply that they did something. Aside from Thrall I believe most of them just spent their days sitting around being covered in their own filth. Except in an alternate reality where Blackmoore is king and the orcs were sold off into slavery. But that was from one of their dumb books I believe.
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Mar 22, 2016 07:50
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Groovelord Neato posted:sadly it is now. I thought Warcraft is Hearthstone now.
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Mar 22, 2016 07:58
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Blizzard kitchen sinking the orcs with all sorts of one-off characters who don't matter doesn't make them more complex than their clear roots post-Warcraft 3, the American Indians. They get herded onto reservations after a conflict that destroys their ancient lands, for Christ's sake. Relatable themes from history are tossed into their backstory in the third game, but their fictional roots are in European stereotypes of North Asian clans and plundering barbarians. Tolkien: "...squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes; in fact degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types."
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Mar 22, 2016 08:06
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Blizzard kitchen sinking the orcs with all sorts of one-off characters who don't matter doesn't make them more complex than their clear roots post-Warcraft 3, the American Indians. They get herded onto reservations after a conflict that destroys their ancient lands, for Christ's sake. Actually the Tauren are the Native Americans. Just look at this guy. 
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Mar 22, 2016 08:47
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CJ posted:Actually the Tauren are the Native Americans. Just look at this guy. Why can't both be Native Americans?
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Mar 22, 2016 09:32
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CJ posted:What racial stereotype is orcs? All of them?
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Mar 22, 2016 10:49
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Blizzard kitchen sinking the orcs with all sorts of one-off characters who don't matter doesn't make them more complex than their clear roots post-Warcraft 3, the American Indians. They get herded onto reservations after a conflict that destroys their ancient lands, for Christ's sake. I've got into debates about how racist the Trolls are on these very forums but goddamn, there really is no excuse for that poo poo in 2016. My maternal family's from the islands and there's nothing more galling than listening to a 40-something year old white dude from California (Metzen) putting on a bad catch-all pan-Caribbean creole accent for both the leader of the Darkspear Trolls and a personification of Baron Samedi. Couple that with the fact that literally 98% of the race is evil, cannibalistic, superstitious caricatures that shuck and jive humorously while getting murdered en masse and you have something that's supremely uncomfortable in my opinion.
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Mar 22, 2016 11:43
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CJ posted:Actually the Tauren are the Native Americans. Just look at this guy. man if only the games looked like that. Vanderdeath posted:I've got into debates about how racist the Trolls are on these very forums but goddamn, there really is no excuse for that poo poo in 2016. My maternal family's from the islands and there's nothing more galling than listening to a 40-something year old white dude from California (Metzen) putting on a bad catch-all pan-Caribbean creole accent for both the leader of the Darkspear Trolls and a personification of Baron Samedi. Couple that with the fact that literally 98% of the race is evil, cannibalistic, superstitious caricatures that shuck and jive humorously while getting murdered en masse and you have something that's supremely uncomfortable in my opinion. i saw the commercial for the new hearthstone expansion and lmao
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Mar 22, 2016 12:44
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Snowman_McK posted:Jesus loving Christ. I remember when I was in primary school, I legit thought Warcraft was better at world building than any book series. It's cool to have reminders that, as dumb as I am now, I used to be even dumber. I always thought Diablo (the first one) had the best/coolest lore and background out of the Blizzard properties. It's also the only property that wasn't originally created by Blizzard.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:55
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then they hosed it all up in 3.
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Mar 22, 2016 14:15
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Tauren are awesome. They're specifically plains Indians, although ultimately they're a pastiche of every cultural element associated with native people (so they have Totem poles, which is more of a West Coast thing). Trolls are like basically just racist caricatures and it can get pretty embarassing. Orcs are well intentioned clumsiness. Being enslaved and then escaping in order to mass emigrate *reasons* has kind of uncomfortable overtones. Returning to and relearning one's own culture is a great theme, on the other hand. I think the ultimate influence is a sort of neopagan pro-indigenous perspective rather than Orcs being not-Africans or something. There was one promotional video for the Warhammer MMO that related races to British class sterotypes. That was cool and also 100x funnier than this conversation.
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Mar 22, 2016 16:07
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So how will The One and Only get snuck in to this one?
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Mar 22, 2016 16:20
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The orcs are clearly "what if Moses was born the son of Ghengis Khan?" (Along with "what if the Mongol horde were really a guiltless slave army")
Paolomania fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 17:44
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Parachute posted:So how will The One and Only get snuck in to this one? I can only assume you mean Thrall. Have no fear they've already shown him, he's in it as an extremely minuscule CGI baby
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Mar 22, 2016 18:40
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Nah, I'm talking about the hit song The One and Only by Chesney Hawkes used in MOON (alarm clock sound) and Source Code (boyfriend's ringtone).
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Mar 22, 2016 18:51
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Parachute posted:Nah, I'm talking about the hit song The One and Only by Chesney Hawkes used in MOON (alarm clock sound) and Source Code (boyfriend's ringtone). There's only one one and only in my eyes, and it's our spiritual king orc jesus
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Mar 22, 2016 18:52
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Toady posted:The Orcish Horde draws much from European fears of the peoples of the Asian Steppe, who were allies of Sauron in Lord of the Rings. Looking at this older stuff I don't get how the artist being an asianophile with a furry fetish came as a surprise to me.
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Mar 22, 2016 20:14
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No Mods No Masters posted:There's only one one and only in my eyes, and it's our spiritual king orc jesus Thrall is way more Moses than Jesus. Mediv: Go down Thrall, way down in Kalimdor, tell Mannoroth "Let my people go!"
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Mar 22, 2016 21:18
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After reviewing the evidence, i think the Orcs are racist against the Japanese because they have samurai, are always going on about their honour and lived in internment camps.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:00
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I'm predicting that this will earn less than a 20% RT score and below $50M domestic.
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Mar 23, 2016 03:36
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This whole discussion reminds me of the petty bickering about whether Klingons are Russian or Japanese.
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Mar 23, 2016 09:57
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Grendels Dad posted:This whole discussion reminds me of the petty bickering about whether Klingons are Russian or Japanese. lol obviously they're Mongolian.
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Mar 23, 2016 13:36
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I have no idea how to feel about this movie at this point.
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Mar 23, 2016 13:39
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Applewhite posted:lol obviously they're Mongolian. Obviously.
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Mar 23, 2016 13:59
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I've never played World of Warcraft and have no interest in the MMO genre, but I'm nostalgic for the old real-time strategy games and this movie matches the aesthetic of Warcraft II which I am fond of.
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Mar 24, 2016 05:39
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SpaceAceJase posted:I've never played World of Warcraft and have no interest in the MMO genre, but I'm nostalgic for the old real-time strategy games and this movie matches the aesthetic of Warcraft II which I am fond of. I think that's why my dad had told me he's really looking forward to the movie too. It just reminds him so much of the RTS games that he loves. He's never touched WoW, but played the RTS games for the last 2 decades. He still plays Warcraft 3 everyday after work (when he's not playing Banished). I don't have the heart to tell him I think it looks pretty bad to me, haha. Hoping to be proven otherwise when we go see it, because I also really enjoyed the RTS games and I really liked Moon and Source Code.
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Mar 24, 2016 07:12
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SpaceAceJase posted:I've never played World of Warcraft and have no interest in the MMO genre, but I'm nostalgic for the old real-time strategy games and this movie matches the aesthetic of Warcraft II which I am fond of. People playing WoW said this about Warlords of Draenor. Don't get your hopes up.
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Mar 24, 2016 12:17
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teagone posted:I think that's why my dad had told me he's really looking forward to the movie too. It just reminds him so much of the RTS games that he loves. He's never touched WoW, but played the RTS games for the last 2 decades. He still plays Warcraft 3 everyday after work (when he's not playing Banished). If your dad is expecting the orcs to be Young Metzen's slapstick heavy-metal satanic mongol horde from the early RTS he will be sorely disappointed.
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Mar 24, 2016 13:58
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Paolomania posted:If your dad is expecting the orcs to be Young Metzen's slapstick heavy-metal satanic mongol horde from the early RTS he will be sorely disappointed. He plays Warcraft III every day so probably not.
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Mar 24, 2016 14:02
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