8-Bit Scholar posted:

Even though the cult is the most boring part of Silent Hill. Bad Opinions indeed.

Lady Naga posted:

lol

Lady Naga posted:

Like if you think the cult is boring then w/e obviously that's your subjective opinion and I can't change it, but considering 2 out of the 4 main titles have them as antagonists, with the other two dealing with the fallout of the cult's actions, maybe Silent Hill really isn't the series for you?

8-Bit Scholar posted:

SH2 has virtually nothing related to the cult in it, and even the ritual ending is a new game plus bonus (and for all we know could be related to a totally different cult).

1 and 3 are direct sequels to each other, which makes sense. There didn't need to be a sequel, but the imagery connects well, and Heather's psyche is a major factor in the story; in a way, the world of two and the world of one are most elegantly married in Silent Hill 3, which suggests that the cult really has no better understanding over what they are doing than anyone else does, and that the monsters you see in the games may be the result of warped perceptions. They look like monsters to you?

4 is...sort of about the cult, but the cult doesn't seem like the same cult from the others one, because there's no women with goofy voices trying to summon god. In fact, nobody's trying to summon god, and the story's about a child's need for a mother, ultimately, and how that need can be perverted by the cruelty of man.

Lady Naga posted:

SH2 happened specifically because the cult corrupted the spiritual power of the town, which allowed it to manifest evil monsters from the characters' psyche. SH4 very much is about the cult from 1 + 3, specifically about how it twisted and warped a damaged person into doing horrible things.

Lady Naga posted:

SH2 happened specifically because the cult corrupted the spiritual power of the town, which allowed it to manifest evil monsters from the characters' psyche. SH4 very much is about the cult from 1 + 3, specifically about how it twisted and warped a damaged person into doing horrible things.

8-Bit Scholar posted:

Corrupted the spiritual power of the town? I guess...maybe? If you wanna see it that way.

The cult always seemed to me like people meddling with forces they do not understand. Claudia isn't even reflective of the cult's true intentions, because she was an extremist even among them. None of the cultists actually seem to fully understand what they are doing, and every ritual ends up backfiring on them in some violent way. I guess the first game's was the closest to a success, but even that has at least a fifty percent chance of going tits up depending on what ending you're after.

The cult itself isn't interesting; the spiritual powers of the town are. It was manifesting monsters from Alessa's psyche in the first game too, I don't think the cultists really orchestrated that.

LawfulWaffle posted:

Maybe but SH2 is mostly about a man who's killed himself and is experiencing a terrifying version of What Dreams May Come. I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of the game, but that's what my gut tells me.

Lady Naga posted:

Okay but the events that happen in 2 would not have happened without those that transpired in the first.

8-Bit Scholar posted:

I think you're pulling this out of your rear end. Silent Hill was a weird place well before the cult or the town even existed there. What evidence supports this?

The cult can't be behind everything, because the true villain of Silent Hill is explicitly shown in Silent Hill 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUDcSeUvkOw

Lurdiak posted:

Is 33% off a good deal for Fallout 4 or should I keep waiting.

Lurdiak posted:

Is 33% off a good deal for Fallout 4 or should I keep waiting.

The Walrus posted:

isnt it funny how anti video game violence pearl clutching in the media went away entirely with jack thompson? we thought it was a whole bunch of ppl but it was just one angry old man the whole time

Ciaphas posted:

Jump Scares work on me nearly every single time

My first time through the original Resident Evil was a loving adventure let me tell you, especially that one hallway the dogs jumped through the windows into. Eesh that was a bad night

LawfulWaffle posted:

Maybe but SH2 is mostly about a man who's killed himself and is experiencing a terrifying version of What Dreams May Come. I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of the game, but that's what my gut tells me.

Jay Rust posted:

I'd wait. The mod creation kit isn't out yet.

Jay Rust posted:

Also cults aren't ever interesting or scary.

Sleeveless posted:

I really liked Silent Hill 2 but a lot of that was the complete surprise of having it be some weird metaphorical purgatory out of nowhere and the series has more or less been poisoned since then because if they do the cult stuff then people will complain because it's too straightforward while if they do metaphorical personal hell stuff then they complain that it's ripping off SH2.

Sakurazuka posted:

It was kind of annoying but I also actually liked how which ending you got in SH 2 came from relatively subtle things like examining the knife too much or loving off and leaving Maria alone.

Sakurazuka posted:

Or the prison bit where you can hear someone breathing and moving around but there's nothing there

I wanna play it again, shame the HD versions sucked rear end

Lady Naga posted:

Silent Hill should've ended with 3. Having 4 around is fine but it's a series that wrapped up everything that needed to be said in the third instalment and has been treading water ever since. It's far too high a concept to make a franchise out of compared to something like Mario or Sonic or even Resident Evil.

Lady Naga posted:

2) If you just want to go with Silent Hill 2, there are numerous examples of characters and memos talking about how the town has a spiritual aura about it (Mary specifically says "this whole town used to be a sacred place")

Jay Rust posted:

spookiest cult in a game?

Lurdiak posted:

We should probably stop talking about how bad Homecoming and Downpour are before Voidburger comes and talks to us about how our own expectations made the games bad or whatever.

8-Bit Scholar posted:

Yes, and in that same game it mentions that there were Native American tribes who worshipped the place well before colonists came; Pyramid Head dates back to the Civil War era, etc etc. The cult is a relatively recent addition to SH, and its powers existed well before its formation. SH2 has nothing directly connecting it to the actions of the cult, certainly not in a way that would mean it a direct result of the cult's actions.

As for Kaufman, indeed, something HAD gone wrong; Alessa's spirit had taken on an otherworldly quality and was reshaping the town based around her nightmares and fears. Cheryl was IIRC Alessa's childlike innocence and good nature while the Alessa encountered in the game is a manifestation of all of her anger, fear and sadness at her tortured death and tormented life. She's become bitter and evil because she's seperated from her other self.

She's reborn as Heather at the end of the first game, so Alessa, who is responsible for the monsters in the first game, has nothing to do with 2 whatsoever. WHY SH2 happened is one of its best unsolved mysteries. The cult is an answer to questions that shouldn't be answered.

Silent Hill's Ancient Gods: A Study of Their Etymology and Evolution posted:

When this religion fell into the
hands of immigrants, it was deeply
influenced by their own original
Christian beliefs.

Inscribed Jennifer Carroll Statue posted:

"Victim of persecution
by the Christians.
Jennifer Carroll lived
with pride and honor.
What happened here
shall never be forgotten."

Book: "Lost Memories" posted:

But it was not the ancestors of
those who now live in this town
that first stole the land from these
people. There were others who
came before.

VoidBurger posted:

Lady Naga posted:

The cult has been around for hundreds of years, as evidenced by both this, and this, and this

VoidBurger posted:

In my opinion, the Silent Hill wiki should be taken with a grain of salt, as it sometimes does not clearly mark what is interpretation, speculation, or outright made up insanity about illuminati doctors performing circumcision on orphans and turning them into otherworldly serial killers.

8-Bit Scholar posted:

And? What does this prove? There were still ancient people who venerated the land as a sacred place. The cultists may have stirred poo poo up, but something mystical was always going on in the area. I don't think that weird wire mesh rust dungeons sprung up whenever some local tribe offended somebody, but there's a force at work in Silent Hill that predates the cult; furthermore, the cult is still in no way directly connected to what happens in Silent Hill 2. It's possible that the cult's actions with Alessa have disturbed the balance of power in the area, but I don't think anything in SH2 confirms that.

Looking at this wiki, I guess I thought it was suggested that Pyramid Head was an executioner at that prison, which was for Civil War POWs.

I had forgotten what exactly Alessa does in the first game, so yeah, she's got like a demon god in her or something, but I do not think it's clear whether that god is actually there because the Order put them there or if there's any explanation for what it actually is. There's still the question of why this poo poo continues to happen when Alessa isn't around; even in SH4, the cult isn't responsible for what's happening in the Room, and are more of a background detail than anything. I also stress that the cult in SH4 doesn't really seem like the same cult we see in 1 or 3.

But beyond any of this, Silent Hill sort of loses a lot of its charm if you just assert that the cult is responsible for everything. So much of what makes SH scary is that much of it is murky and unclear, which makes you uncomfortable. It emulates a David Lynch sensibility in that regard; like something awful is happening out of the corner of your eye and you are desperately trying not to turn your head to see what it is. When Homecoming came around and has you fighting humans in gas masks and the cult is everywhere and there's just no mystery to it, no sense of horrified wonder. That's what makes Silent Hill great. It's a brief glimpse into a world of utter nightmare.

VoidBurger posted:

In my opinion, the Silent Hill wiki should be taken with a grain of salt, as it sometimes does not clearly mark what is interpretation, speculation, or outright made up insanity about illuminati doctors performing circumcision on orphans and turning them into otherworldly serial killers.