Dapper Dan posted:

Why is everyone so confused as to the motives of the Punisher's family's deaths? Watch the last episode again. The Blacksmith invited Frank to be part of his awesomely profitable heroin trading scheme. Frank refused. The Blacksmith knew Frank was a loose end because he'd been exposed and Frank is a very real law and order type. The Blacksmith gets wind Frank is taking his family to the park, sets up a fake drug deal between three very twitchy gangs, tips off the DA to the deal and then doesn't show. The Blacksmith knows the gangs are super loving twitchy and the DA is heavy handed. Frank is there in the park and then a fire-fight occurs. It was specifically done to kill Frank. His family was inconsequential.

Frank knew The Blacksmith's identity, knew how profitable it was and had a chance to reveal it. The Blacksmith needed him eliminated. Getting him caught in the cross-fire was part of the plan. What wasn't part of it was Frank surviving.

Also, if they wanted to tie Frank to 'The Hand' storyline, they could have made the Blacksmith part of the Hand, and had everything in a neat little bow. Then he shows up with a mini-gun and just massacres some ninjas.

mikeraskol posted:

This doesn't make any sense. If he knew the Blacksmith's identity, as soon as he got out of prison he would have booked it upstate and shot Clancy Brown in the face. He only figured it out by following Karen.

Dexo posted:

Temporary Hearing Loss and other hearing issues are common with concussions though?

And Since hearing is kinda how Matt sees thing, you can see why he would start banging his hand and trying to get sound.

MOVIE MAJICK posted:

This season was solid but the ending was extremely poo poo. What? Just a bunch of knocked out ninjas on the ground, no resolution? Ending on "Daredevil must die" might be one of the worst cop-out cliffhangers I've ever seen. Extremely pissed off right now at Netflix for calling this a complete season.

net cafe scandal posted:

Theres a 13th episode haha

zoux posted:

i dunno what the symptoms of a concussion are. I know what television shorthand for a concussion is, and it ain't spontaneous hearing loss 16 hours after the event and a night's sleep. But if I'm an idiot for not being able to diagnose a concussion via tv, then those sideline docs that can't consistently detect them when they can examine the patients directly are committing gross malpractice.

Woden posted:

Ninjas showing up just meant we'd get yet another boring Arrow-esque fight scene. Season 1 had great fight scenes, Punisher had good to great fight scenes but all the ninja ones were pretty boring. Really didn't help that even Nobu -the big bad ninja- felt like a nameless mook either.

Gargamel Gibson posted:

A) Karen is a poo poo writer.

Rarity posted:

Has there been any mention of how long Fisk's sentence is?

net cafe scandal posted:

Oh yeah through that whole Claire quitting segment I just had no idea why in Gods name I was expected to care about the PR of Claires hospital. Such a bizarre scene.. I guess they wanted to give Rosario Dawson some drama to chew on but it was just another break in momentum.

zoux posted:

i dunno what the symptoms of a concussion are. I know what television shorthand for a concussion is, and it ain't spontaneous hearing loss 16 hours after the event and a night's sleep. But if I'm an idiot for not being able to diagnose a concussion via tv, then those sideline docs that can't consistently detect them when they can examine the patients directly are committing gross malpractice.

notthegoatseguy posted:

From the way the attorney talked, It didn't even sound like Fisk had a trial yet, let alone convicted.

zoux posted:

Wait, they didn't say he had a concussion?

zoux posted:

Wait, they didn't say he had a concussion?

Pellisworth posted:

I could be misremembering but I thought Fisk said he had 25 years with possibility of early release for good behavior.


I don't think so. He takes a gunshot to his mask and has head/hearing problems the next day. I honestly thought it was going to be a recurring issue, like he got his bell rung hard enough he was going to keep having intermittent hearing loss throughout the season and it was going to be a major obstacle for DD to overcome.

Hollismason posted:

It's only in one comic book called Born. It's a good book, but basically it really subverts the Punisher.

His origin is now, he noticed the ambush but let it happen on a subconscious level because he wanted to have a war that was never ending. When he came home he actually wasn't having a good home life he was bored and missed the war. He had bad relationships with his wife and his kids. He was severely hosed up.

This may have changed but I don't think it did for the new Marvel.

red19fire posted:

I personally think the Netflix Punisher is somewhat of a copout with the TBI thing. It's like they're trying to make him into this lone lunatic, rather than the powerful, brilliant tactician. At least in the Max series, he's treated as an unstoppable force of nature.

Phenotype posted:

It wasn't forgotten, he just had a concussion. The next episode's fight was the follow-up, as you mentioned, and the effects went away after a couple days.

red19fire posted:

site posted:

The thing about this is that it's never brought up again in the rest of MAX and except for Ennis saying in an interview or something that he was talking to Death, you can construe it as Frank making a deal with himself to just let go of humanity and be the killing machine he really wants to be deep down at his core.

I wasn't terribly pleased with the brain damage aspect brought up in DD, but I also wonder if marvel/netflix are just worried that portraying him as the unstoppable force of murder makes the character not sellable to most viewers.

One thing I'm curious about if he does get a show will be how they deal with Frank and dialogue. In the comics, it's a storytelling device that usually Frank speaks almost, if not entirely in internal monologue in the first half of an arc, and as the climax gets closer he will start speaking more and more, while most of the dialogue in the front half will be spoken by other characters. I wonder how well that could be translated to screen and if audiences will buy it.

I know that they already have the Micro setup in DD so there can be opportunity for banter, but I hope they kill him off quick and don't turn it into some buddy cop poo poo because he's just not a good character.

mikeraskol posted:

Kingpin knows (or at least suspects) that Matt is more than he seems, right? After Matt punched him they had a quick scene of Kingpin back in his cell, touches his lip where he got hit and then immediately asks an underlying to bring him the file on Murdock.

zoux posted:

Marvel books and MCU movies often get flak for not having compelling villians in favor of interpersonal conflict between the heroes, really Loki, Kilgrave and Kingpin are the only good villains in the MCU.

notthegoatseguy posted:

From the way the attorney talked, It didn't even sound like Fisk had a trial yet, let alone convicted. But the show is really bad in the legal aspect of things so its best not to think too hard about it.

Dexo posted:

Temporary Hearing Loss and other hearing issues are common with concussions though?

And Since hearing is kinda how Matt sees thing, you can see why he would start banging his hand and trying to get sound.

DrNutt posted:

I loved The Punisher when I was a retarded lolbertarian but he has a lot less appeal now that I've grown up and matured. Re reading the MAX stuff is mostly unpleasant and I can't imagine "Frank Castle gruesomely murders disgusting rapists, murderers, and pedophiles" being a compelling season of TV without something more complex added to the mix. That's why I loved the Tom Jane Punisher. It was a little cheesy but giving the character a little humanity wasn't a bad idea.

NutritiousSnack posted:

You're kind of missing the point of the Ennis run on MAX, especially when he fights the human traffickers, it's only the light hearted wall street guys run that is supposed to generate this reaction. That arc literally ends with the activists laying into Frank and calling him a serial killer/monster no different than the rapists he's fighting and accomplishing nothing but satisfying himself, and him admitting it

Gargamel Gibson posted:

A) Karen is a poo poo writer.

GlitchThief posted:

Daredevil is packed to the gills with blood, torture, gunshots, and other violence, but the part where Karen narrates her article is the only time I winced.

Soothing Vapors posted:

Stick is really goddamn bad at whatever his nebulously defined job is. THEY ARE NECROMANCERS STICK. NECROMANCERS.


I really wanted the season to end with Beardo firing her after reading just the title of her article

NutritiousSnack posted:

You're kind of missing the point of the Ennis run on MAX, especially when he fights the human traffickers, it's only the light hearted wall street guys run that is supposed to generate this reaction. That arc literally ends with the activists laying into Frank and calling him a serial killer/monster no different than the rapists he's fighting and accomplishing nothing but satisfying himself, and him admitting it

NutritiousSnack posted:

They said it was going to be a "few months, maybe even a couple of years" when discussing his release. It's sounds like season 3 or 4 Fisk is back, more likely 3 with them doing an adaption of The Man Without Fear story line. Probably replacing Nuke with Bullseye.

BiggerBoat posted:

The hell is this nonsense?

red19fire posted:

If I'm remembering Born correctly, on his 3rd tour in Vietnam he calls down napalm on his own position as a last ditch effort to repel a Vietcong attack, and in that moment he makes a Faustian deal for his war to never end because it's the only place he felt like himself (the brass decided that he couldn't volunteer for a 4th tour). In exchange, the Devil (or whatever Spirit of Vengeance) will take the one thing he holds dear, his family.

The first book in Max goes into it a bit, how after killing 2,000 criminals it's not really about vengeance anymore. His family is this vague idea of the innocent he must protect and he barely remembers them anymore. Much like how in Vietnam, he's ostensibly fighting for his family but they are this half-remembered life that sends him letters once a week and a photograph in his helmet. It's the fuel that powers the Punisher, like he says in Year One, 'Frank Castle died with his family. But his body continues to twitch, who knows what it will do.'

I personally think the Netflix Punisher is somewhat of a copout with the TBI thing. It's like they're trying to make him into this lone lunatic, rather than the powerful, brilliant tactician. At least in the Max series, he's treated as an unstoppable force of nature.

Dapper Dan posted:

I actually like the Netflix Punisher better thinking more on it. Because Frank is basically a force of nature in Max, he is unrelatable. In Ennis' run, the stories are basically about the villains. Having Frank show emotions and be a little vulnerable is really nice for a change.

You really could not do a show on Ennis' Punisher. It would just be boring. I like the idea of him genuinely wanting to be home, which was the only thing keeping him sane and that is ripped away from him and he is physically and emotionally destroyed by it, taking up the mantle of his trauma as his symbol. You need people to relate to him somehow, and in Max the only thing Castle is vulnerable to is the physical. Here, the Punisher actually seems to care about stuff making him infinitely more interesting. As long as they keep his superpower of never killing anyone innocent, I am on board.

Soothing Vapors posted:

I really wanted the season to end with Beardo firing her after reading just the title of her article

BiggerBoat posted:

The hell is this nonsense?

Gaz-L posted:

The truth? I suppose you could stretch to Ultron, but you really find Jeff Bridges Yells A Lot or Chris Eccleston Under A Ton Of Latex compelling as characters?

mikeraskol posted:

Kingpin knows (or at least suspects) that Matt is more than he seems, right? After Matt punched him they had a quick scene of Kingpin back in his cell, touches his lip where he got hit and then immediately asks an underlying to bring him the file on Murdock.