|
Jamesman posted:Goblins seemed more like Jersey/Boston/New York bros than Jewish stereotypes to me. Maybe it's because I never spent a lot of time around them in WoW and my main exposure comes from Gazlowe in Heroes of the Storm. they're new york jews dude
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2016 22:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 12:45 |
|
|
They live in a ghetto where Warcraft's Hitler put them, obsessed with money, and has a Hollywood Jewish accent. Pandas are way worse though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2016 23:03
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure almost every single time a Dwarf is mentioned by name in the poetic Edda, the poo poo that Tolkien was literally an expert in, it's because he was crafting some sort of magical weapon or artifact or hair for someone and if something is meant to be impressive it tends to be mentioned that the Dwarfs built it. Lord of the Rings is basically Norse Mythology fan fiction.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 02:01
|
|
|
In Arcanum Gnomes are known for being cunning and good with money and for having big noses. There is also one mission that implies that a secret cabal of Gnomes might be involved in a conspiracy to breed half-ogres as a servant race. The Orcs in Arcanum on the other hand are the Irish and if you play as a half-Orc everyone hates you.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 02:05
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:they're new york jews dude
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 02:48
|
|
|
I remember reading that the goblin starting area and mission in WoW: Cataclysm being inspired by GTA. Anyway, I like that dwarves in Dragon Age are Americans.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 03:22
|
|
|
The whole idea of race in fantasy, and real life, was heavily influenced by Wagner. It's hard to capture how huge Wagner was- opera was like rock + cinema, and he was its biggest star ever. Basically everyone in European culture for a few generations were Wagner fanboys. Anyhow to get an idea how the races of gods, elves, men, etc, could have lead to Hilter (another huge fan), "hero" was a race in Wagner.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 03:29
|
|
|
Wagner was not a big fan of Jewish people existing. So much so that it created a rift between him and Nietzsche who thought the Jews were really cool.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 06:18
|
|
|
What's the difference between a gnome and a dwarf?
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 09:02
|
|
|
SpaceAceJase posted:What's the difference between a gnome and a dwarf? Gnomes get +2 Constitution, –2 Strength racial modifiers, dwarves get +2 Constitution, –2 Charisma.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 09:23
|
|
|
Gnome's are Jews, dwarves are Scots.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 12:25
|
|
|
I think trying to parse out which fantasy race is modeled after which real life ethnic group is missing the larger point that fantasy writers and especially Blizzard tend to just throw stereotypes from any group that isn't white europeans at their made up races to otherize them and that's inherently racist and dumb even if you can't 100% match the orcs with any specific real life race.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 12:48
|
|
|
Klingon's aren't black just because Michael Dorn is....Or are they?
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 14:51
|
|
|
Christopher Lloyd played a Klingon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ULz7ukMb7s
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 15:14
|
|
|
Where did dwarves speaking like Scotsmen come from? In the Hobbit animated film they just sound like old dudes. By warcraft II they were Scottish and that seems to be a consistent trope now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 15:34
|
|
|
Paolomania posted:Um there are more than just Jewish people from New York, you know. Goblinspeak is just general blue-collar New-York/New-Jersey (plenty of Goomba in there). ("Heeey, how you doin'?", "Yo!", "Whazzap!") large noses, conniving, money grubbing...
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 15:41
|
|
|
Tender Bender posted:Where did dwarves speaking like Scotsmen come from? In the Hobbit animated film they just sound like old dudes. By warcraft II they were Scottish and that seems to be a consistent trope now. Apparently Dungeons & Dragons features scottish dwarves because a lot of the series is based on a book with one.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 16:06
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:large noses, conniving, money grubbing... Well if we are going to cherry pick qualities out of the kitchen sink then what does it mean that they are large-nosed maniacal pyromaniac suicide bombers?
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 18:30
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:I think trying to parse out which fantasy race is modeled after which real life ethnic group is missing the larger point that fantasy writers and especially Blizzard tend to just throw stereotypes from any group that isn't white europeans at their made up races to otherize them and that's inherently racist and dumb even if you can't 100% match the orcs with any specific real life race. Sometimes I wonder about things like that in fantasy writing. Is it better or worse to be aware of your influences when you are making up some sort of fictional culture or cultures for a make believe story world? I mean you could go all in on the stereotypes and just do the Panderans from WoW who are really blatant, or you could sincerely try come up with something unique but still have parallels drawn to all sorts of real world cultures that may or may not have been the product of subconscious influences. Like if someone did the 'bad guy' empire as a theocracy which revolved around subjugation of the outlying cultures and ritual human sacrifice, you could easily draw parallels there with the Aztecs since that is a 100% certified thing that they did, but if you write them with that intent in mind does it make them a caricature? Is the bad part making them something other than human? If so, how can you have a non-human species in a fictional setting that isn't 100% Good Guys that isn't seen as some sort of attempt to Otherize a particular culture (unless the Orcs here are explicitly white euro-americans who are green?). Can you ever show a conflict between alien species/cultures that doesn't draw really uncomfortable parallels, and are they always fair comparisons? Maybe this is a really broad question for a thread about a movie where green cgi blobs are going to be emoting against human actors who just could not be paid enough to give a poo poo, but I enjoy the sci-fi/fantasy genre of books and movies and these thoughts come to me whenever the inevitable race/species/culture arguments come up about those topics and I've never been able to give myself a satisfactory answer to them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 18:34
|
|
|
Bob Quixote posted:Sometimes I wonder about things like that in fantasy writing. Is it better or worse to be aware of your influences when you are making up some sort of fictional culture or cultures for a make believe story world? I mean you could go all in on the stereotypes and just do the Panderans from WoW who are really blatant, or you could sincerely try come up with something unique but still have parallels drawn to all sorts of real world cultures that may or may not have been the product of subconscious influences. I'm actually working on a fantasy series (less so now that I'm actually busy) and I asked these same questions when devising them. What I came up with is basically that it's ok to have cultural stereotypes because audiences are primed to accept them (eg, the Samurai master from the Japanese culture) but you should also show them as being more than just their stereotypes. So for example, one of the races in the world I'm building is a bunch of Arab tribes in the mold of Lawrence of Arabia. Like that movie, there are a bunch of uncomfortable stereotypes, but I diffuse it by having one of the main characters be part of the main narrative. So you're not just a Conquistador looking in at the brutish natives, they're part of the group and they influence how you (the audience) feels about that culture.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 18:42
|
|
|
Tender Bender posted:Where did dwarves speaking like Scotsmen come from? In the Hobbit animated film they just sound like old dudes. By warcraft II they were Scottish and that seems to be a consistent trope now. I'm pretty sure that's from Warhammer and that Warhammer also invented all Orcs being green. Tolkien Orcs were usually yellow or gray or brown and sometimes green.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 20:07
|
|
|
God, arguing over and keeping track of which fantasy race is offensive to whom, and who to be offended on behalf of and why sounds loving exhausting.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 20:25
|
|
|
No one is doing that? I for one am quite energized by turning my brain ONParachute posted:Klingon's aren't black just because Michael Dorn is....Or are they? They are presented as "naturally" disposed to violence, have a primitive culture and so on. In their earlier incarnations they were extremely duplicitous and generally considered to be analogues to the Soviet Russians. In sci-fi (and fantasy) aliens always represent some form of The Other, which isn't a single race or sexuality or whatever. It's a sociological and psychological concept for the archetypes that we find fascinating or repulsive in our perception of other types of people. Lurdiak posted:I think trying to parse out which fantasy race is modeled after which real life ethnic group is missing the larger point that fantasy writers and especially Blizzard tend to just throw stereotypes from any group that isn't white europeans at their made up races to otherize them and that's inherently racist and dumb even if you can't 100% match the orcs with any specific real life race. Blizzard certainly is clumsy with their writing, but I think it's only inherently racist if the story itself promotes the idea of superiority/inferiority? Like if a specific character, embroiled in a imaginatory race war, insists that the "green"-skins are truly irredeemable evil or stupid (etc), and the story bears this out, then yeah, it's dumb and bad. And that definitely happens in some fiction and a lot of roleplaying rulebooks, because people carry a lot of unexamined racial baggage and that obviously effects our imaginations when we create art and games. BUT if the story contradicts or exposes that character/position, then that would mean it's about racism, as opposed to simply racist. Intented or not, the propaganda of a righteous and true good race versus invading race of evil monsters definitely seeped into the first 2 Warcraft games. By the 3rd, the creators obviously began to think about how this racial conflict would look like from the pov of all it's participants, not just the white Europeans. To imagine the Other, as one's own self. I barely played WOW, so I'm not confident enough to speak on how it handled it things, but I'm pretty sure Blizzard continued in that vein. Whether the movie does it well or badly, I guess we shall see! And Duncan Jones career isn't gonna be ruined even if he's made his first bad movie, sheesh nerds
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 21:52
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:I think trying to parse out which fantasy race is modeled after which real life ethnic group is missing the larger point that fantasy writers and especially Blizzard tend to just throw stereotypes from any group that isn't white europeans at their made up races to otherize them and that's inherently racist and dumb even if you can't 100% match the orcs with any specific real life race. i too like to be aggrieved about poo poo that doesn't matter
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 01:19
|
|
|
it actually does matter a great deal, almost certainly upper middle class white person.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 02:09
|
|
|
Eyyyy, chill out mon, ya mojo's burnin hot, just kick back and get down wit da voodoo.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 02:15
|
|
|
Everything I know about WoW, I learned from this Gamespy comic. http://flintlocke.thecomicseries.com/
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 03:10
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:it actually does matter a great deal, almost certainly upper middle class white person. how dare you not agree with my myopic views on first world injustices, privileged white heathen! go cry about some trump 2016 sidewalk chalk
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 03:33
|
|
|
 Orcs are a disgustingly offensive stereotype and I am outraged about how offensive it is! What race are orcs offending? Uh...The Jewish Japanese First Nation People of Color community will suffer this outrage no longer!
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 06:07
|
|
|
Dawg your dungeon and dragon isn't so weak that it will crumble under examination. These fantasy characters have always been about exploring race, class. That's why they're crafting war against eachother. That's why their skin is different, and they come from other worlds. It's a test that's yours to fail. And sometimes fantasy is dumb, and cannot handle the idea of another man. The fear seeps into it and you get these sad displays. Don't be that guy who plays pitiful. Aren't you supposed to be strong.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 06:42
|
|
counterfeitsaint posted:God, arguing over and keeping track of which fantasy race is offensive to whom, and who to be offended on behalf of and why sounds loving exhausting. oswald ownenstein posted:i too like to be aggrieved about poo poo that doesn't matter Oh great, the giant babies who think discussion of race means "being offended" are here.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 07:41
|
|
|
how come the humans are never the barbarians with the orcs and trolls being the enlightened and civilized races??
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 15:26
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:how come the humans are never the barbarians with the orcs and trolls being the enlightened and civilized races?? That's Starcraft, kinda.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 15:30
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:how come the humans are never the barbarians with the orcs and trolls being the enlightened and civilized races?? Eberron kinda has that. Halflings and elves are varying flavors of barbarians. Orcs are fairly normal civilized people whose big thing is guarding portals to the cthulhu world. Goblins are basically 1920s Italians, embracing fasicsm as a way to restore their nation.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 16:49
|
|
|
Telling that u both had to throw in "kinda" tho
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 17:55
|
|
|
Everyone got so distracted arguing over which ethnic group should be most offended by Metzen that nobody posted the new trailer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-Ss3r-F_O0
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 18:05
|
|
|
CJ posted:Everyone got so distracted arguing over which ethnic group should be most offended by Metzen that nobody posted the new trailer. Is that subtitle new? Also, I can never tell if this movie actually looks bad, or if I've just moved on from fantasy. Feels like every fantasy movie/show that isn't LOTR makes me cringe in a very similar way (even Game of Thrones from time to time).
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 18:14
|
|
|
The subtitle has always been there in the UK, it might be where the trailer was ripped from.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 18:20
|
|
|
I kind of like how cornball it looks, honestly. e: That's how I felt about the trailers for Chappie and that definitely worked in my favor so u never know
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 18:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 12:45 |
|
|
subtitles need to die.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 18:39
|
|