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Josh Lyman posted:All these 150k salaries make me sad that I did CompE instead CompSci. Work with medical devices. Compe's are making as much as pure CS in Minneapolis.
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Mar 28, 2016 09:20
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Ccs posted:BTW how many people in the Valley believe in the whole "singularity" thing? A friend works on the same campus as "Singularity University" and says those people are really intense. Is there really a good chance that by 2045 we'll have human or beyond human-level AI? Probably a small but significant minority among the people who want to ~change the world~ with ~tech~ instead of seeing it as a well paying job. Basically look at the corporate donors list of the singularity university/miri, look up which big SV company guys have made noises about the impending singularity and/or AI uprising (this includes people like Elon Musk). There may or may not be AI advanced enough that everyone considers it strong, but I'd be surprised if the people currently ripping off google/spacex/whatever for funbux will be more than a footnote given that they're mostly worshipping at the feet of self-described technomessiah (read: nut) Elizer Yudkowsky.
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Mar 28, 2016 09:37
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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An interesting side effect of the wage growth in tech is the hoovering up of junior talent from "elite" industries. Finance and consulting firms have had to not just bump up pay but also had to, or at least pretend to, improve work-life balance. Why kill yourself working 80 hour weeks in IB making 130-140 total comp as a fresh grad when you could be having a much better lifestyle in SV with better pay.
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Mar 28, 2016 10:27
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shrike82 posted:An interesting side effect of the wage growth in tech is the hoovering up of junior talent from "elite" industries. Accenture blew up analyst pay this year with 80k starting, but then you'd be working for Accenture. MBB was quick to match though.
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Mar 28, 2016 16:49
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shrike82 posted:Why kill yourself working 80 hour weeks in IB making 130-140 total comp as a fresh grad when you could be having a much better lifestyle in SV with better pay.
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Mar 28, 2016 16:54
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the talent deficit posted:i showed up for work at my dotcom v1.0 job to find an office stripped of furnishing. my manager was at his desk but no one else was. he told me if i wanted an aeron or a printer i had better grab one before my badge stopped working later that day. i wish i had kept the aeron and the ibm laptop i liberated Did it look like this? This picture from the WTC has always been my favorite. Literally a bygone era.  Hopefully we see a repeat soon.
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Mar 28, 2016 16:59
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reagan posted:Did it look like this? This picture from the WTC has always been my favorite. Literally a bygone era. That equivalent scene in The Big Short was pretty cool.
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Mar 28, 2016 17:00
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Extravagantly-paid developers are also expected to work 80-hour weeks. Really? My friends at places at Google, FB etc. typically do 50-60 hours. When I say 80 for IB, I mean not for crunch but every week.
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Mar 28, 2016 17:40
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During dot-com, I was once on a cross-country airplane trip to meet my new employers when I opened the New York Times to read that the company had just been merged with another company. Good times, good times.
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Mar 28, 2016 17:40
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shrike82 posted:Really? My friends at places at Google, FB etc. typically do 50-60 hours. Yeah, 80 at FB would be very unusual.
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Mar 28, 2016 17:44
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Josh Lyman posted:I remember, a CS friend of mine got hired out of undergrad with at Apple for 80k or 85k in 2008 and I thought that was above average. It was. I was hired by Google for $85k also in 2008 (before the start of the Great Recession), and I'm still extremely grateful for it. There was litigation about those wages being too low; both your friend and I got paid from this litigation (not much compared to today's salaries, but something). Subjunctive posted:Yeah, 80 at FB would be very unusual. At Google too. I worked about 50 hours last week, between 9-10 hours each day and 3-4 hours on Sunday. Evil Robot fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 17:47
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shrike82 posted:Really? My friends at places at Google, FB etc. typically do 50-60 hours. Sick to death of reading about Bitcoin? Have I got a deal for you! New, improved Ethereum! quote:A new virtual gold rush is underway.  For those of you who feel that it's not sufficient just having the infrastructure itself be a Ponzi scheme, have we got a platform for you!quote:“Bitcoin presented the broad strokes vision, and Ethereum presented the crystallization of how to deliver that vision,” [a co-developer of the software] said.
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Mar 28, 2016 17:51
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shrike82 posted:Whether it's bubble-driven or not, you have to wonder whether devs are being paid what they should and other white-collar jobs are being grossly underpaid. I don't see how a millennial making 40-50K in a major city can afford the standard milestones of middle class life - home ownership, healthcare without worry, kids, retirement savings etc. Independent of productivity and other cocnerns, yes devs are paid an actual middle-class wage and yes other millennial white-collars are being vastly underpaid. Related to productivity, both groups are probably very underpaid but that's a topic for another thread.
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Mar 28, 2016 17:56
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I usually just work 40 hours a week at Google including lunch. I do work some overtime prior to major releases though. Most people I see seem to have a similar work-life balance. At Amazon I usually did 40 hours a week too, same for most of my co-workers.
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Mar 28, 2016 18:39
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Cicero posted:I usually just work 40 hours a week at Google including lunch. I do work some overtime prior to major releases though. Most people I see seem to have a similar work-life balance. Yeah, the more mature firms are seeing less value in overworking their entire staff, although at Amazon my team was put on 2 consecutive deathmarches that required 80+ weeks for 3 months.
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Mar 28, 2016 19:25
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archangelwar posted:Yeah, the more mature firms are seeing less value in overworking their entire staff, although at Amazon my team was put on 2 consecutive deathmarches that required 80+ weeks for 3 months. Unless the work is on a project/product that's my very own baby, no amount of money in the world is enough to make me work back-to-back 80h weeks.
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Mar 28, 2016 19:54
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On the other hand I got those scissors I ordered on time, so thanks for that.
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Mar 28, 2016 19:58
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blowfish posted:Unless the work is on a project/product that's my very own baby, no amount of money in the world is enough to make me work back-to-back 80h weeks. Shows how unAmerican you are.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNzXze5Yza8 No, this is not an Onion video. 
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Mar 28, 2016 19:58
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Shows how unAmerican you are. France actually takes most of July off and maybe a bit of August, not the entire August. Typical American ignorance of the world. 
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Mar 28, 2016 19:59
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Shows how unAmerican you are. Good thing I don't work in America , and holy poo poo that's an
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Mar 28, 2016 20:04
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Evil Robot posted:It was. I was hired by Google for $85k also in 2008 (before the start of the Great Recession), and I'm still extremely grateful for it. There was litigation about those wages being too low; both your friend and I got paid from this litigation (not much compared to today's salaries, but something). I knew I should have majored in CompSci Stupid chemistry degree
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Mar 28, 2016 20:08
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Shows how unAmerican you are. Stupid French people and having the time to actually enjoy that pool and house and kids and car!
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Mar 28, 2016 20:12
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Charlie Mopps posted:Stupid French people and having the time to actually enjoy that pool and house and kids and car! In America it isn't about enjoying anything it's about having it. If I have a Benz and a $600,000 house while you have a Toyota and live in an apartment I am better than you. That's all that matters; if I need to work 80 hours a week all year every year to get that then it Is Worth It because it means I'm better than most Americans. Granted I'm probably also miserable and have an addiction to feed because of the stress but thems the breaks.
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Mar 28, 2016 20:24
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Evil Robot posted:It was. I was hired by Google for $85k also in 2008 (before the start of the Great Recession), and I'm still extremely grateful for it. There was litigation about those wages being too low; both your friend and I got paid from this litigation (not much compared to today's salaries, but something). e: The very last deathmarch I did was a book that had to be written in sixty days, about a brand-new flagship product that began its life undefined, that continually changed en-route, and whose engineer could not be forced to review drafts because the engineering was so far behind. I was pulling 80-hour weeks on that one, working through multiple migraines, then it shipped (as an utter failure) and I collapsed. After that I learned that 10-hour days made me stupid, and that the mistakes I made late in the day and the evening cost a lot of effort to undo the next morning. That was also the first big dent in my childish "I love my company, therefore I will give it what it needs, no matter what the cost." Arsenic Lupin fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 20:37
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I've met enough European expats working in the US/UK to sense that the continental European model for work isn't always better. This presumes of course that you're a professional who doesn't have to worry about welfare or healthcare costs. Given the disparities in gross pay and income tax levels, we could be talking about a 50% differential in take-home pay. It's up to you to decide whether that's worth shorter work-weeks and significantly more vacation days.
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Mar 28, 2016 20:52
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blowfish posted:Unless the work is on a project/product that's my very own baby, no amount of money in the world is enough to make me work back-to-back 80h weeks. This is why my career at Amazon lasted little more than 3 months. 2 back-to-back death marches, an experience that corresponds textbook with the NYT exposé, combined with being mislead concerning the position, team, and the work... I will honestly say that my experience should not be representative but it obviously happened to a few people or the NYT story would not have been a thing; there is only 1 remaining member of the original 8 people hired in to work in that specific group.
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Mar 28, 2016 20:58
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shrike82 posted:Given the disparities in gross pay and income tax levels, we could be talking about a 50% differential in take-home pay. It's up to you to decide whether that's worth shorter work-weeks and significantly more vacation days. Hell yeah it is, especially considering the cost of living is lower in most areas that are not Greater London so you get more mileage out of those 50%. For instance, anything over $1500/month for a whole-family apartment or over $700/month for a 1-2 person apartment would be outrageously overpriced and better come with gold plating where I live (realistically, $1000 and $400 even in town). e: this is vs a mean per capita income of €20000/about $22000 after tax, with techies probably getting about twice that on average. If I want to work myself to death for more money I can still work for a European investment bank (where you'd often be laughed out of the office for going home once you hit the legal maximum overtime). suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 20:58
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Having lived in NYC and being a current resident of London, it's not as clear cut as you're making it out to be. If you have a family, you could always get a place in NJ for relatively reasonable rates. And if you're a DINK, you make more and spend less in Manhattan relative to London proper. And if you're talking about moving to another UK city entirely, the white-collar jobs may not be there and even if they are, there's another 30-50% pay cut.
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Mar 28, 2016 21:06
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shrike82 posted:Having lived in NYC and being a current resident of London, it's not as clear cut as you're making it out to be. If you have a family, you could always get a place in NJ for relatively reasonable rates. And if you're a DINK, you make more and spend less in Manhattan relative to London proper. Yeah the UK is poo poo because it tries to be America, jr. and also prides itself on high paid workers working day and night, but strong continental economies (France or Austria sort of, but mostly Germany) have lower costs of living. Switzerland is nice, too, though its higher wages are offset by its higher living costs again.
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Mar 28, 2016 21:10
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Oh, okay. Sorry about that, I misinterpreted completely. Actually And no my 100grand in holdings has not affected my opinion, why do you ask?
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Mar 28, 2016 21:19
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Mercury_Storm posted:up up up uP UP
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Mar 28, 2016 22:19
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My wife is from Dublin and keeps wanting to move back there where the cost of living is not too insane, but salaries in my field are like 1/3 what they are in NYC. I keep telling here we can move there when I get seed money to start a new company, since it'll be cheaper to hire decent developers there
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Mar 28, 2016 23:26
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Emacs Headroom posted:My wife is from Dublin and keeps wanting to move back there where the cost of living is not too insane, but salaries in my field are like 1/3 what they are in NYC. I keep telling here we can move there when I get seed money to start a new company, since it'll be cheaper to hire decent developers there well apple is an irish company, after all
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Mar 29, 2016 00:13
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Emacs Headroom posted:My wife is from Dublin and keeps wanting to move back there where the cost of living is not too insane, but salaries in my field are like 1/3 what they are in NYC. I keep telling here we can move there when I get seed money to start a new company, since it'll be cheaper to hire decent developers there Cost of rent in Dublin has been climbing due to a housing crisis. It might get fixed soon since it's been hitting multinationals like Paypal's bottom line and they're complaining about their employee hiring/relocation costs have been going up due to having to home them in hotels for longer periods than they used to. It wouldn't be as bad as London but wouldn't be my first choice city to live in Europe. I've been here for 6 years now and I'm looking forward to moving to somewhere that a 3 bedroom house can be rented for about the same as a studio apartment here.
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Mar 29, 2016 00:14
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Arsenic Lupin posted:I think digital currency is a good thing, but I think a digital currency in which money is created and backed by CPU cycles isn't long-term viable. It'll be the heat-death of the universe and the final Onmiversal BitMiner will spit out the GodHash.
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Mar 29, 2016 00:34
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blowfish posted:Probably a small but significant minority among the people who want to ~change the world~ with ~tech~ instead of seeing it as a well paying job. Basically look at the corporate donors list of the singularity university/miri, look up which big SV company guys have made noises about the impending singularity and/or AI uprising (this includes people like Elon Musk). Yudowsky actually sounds lot more reasonable than Kurzweil, going by his wikipedia summary: "Yudkowsky expresses skepticism about our ability to predict when AI algorithms are likely to exceed humans in general intelligence, even if we attempt to improve our timelines with more formal models." Meanwhile Kurzweil says it will DEFINITELY happen by 2045 and that's why he eats like 200 pills a day.
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Mar 29, 2016 01:13
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Ccs posted:Yudowsky [...] reasonable Nope.
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Mar 29, 2016 02:22
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Even Kurzweil doesn't believe in the basilisk
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Mar 29, 2016 03:40
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Okay I just looked up what that was and it sounds very stupid. Thought apparently now that I know about it I'm gonna get punished by future AI. Great.
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Mar 29, 2016 03:48
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on the left posted:Accenture blew up analyst pay this year with 80k starting, but then you'd be working for Accenture. MBB was quick to match though. Which analysts?
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Mar 29, 2016 04:02
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