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Yeah, claiming to enjoy the books is no great crime, CerealCrunch. jivjov posted:Yeah; I wish the "infodump" from the Cthaeh had somehow happened in Name of the Wind instead of delayed to WMF. Rothfuss does a decent enough job of having Kvothe inquire after the Chandrian and the Amyr everywhere he goes...but the complete lack of information he gets in return is rough. It shows the superiority of stuff like Baudolino, where there's none of the confusion of plot like in Kingkiller. Baudolino's quest for his "Chandrian" is something that is used to tell a story - the quest for Prester John's kingdom is a quest for meaning and thus for salvation. It's not some complicated artistic question, Eco just wrote a complete story. Kvothe's difficulty of finding the Chandrian is actually Rothfuss's difficulty in writing a meaninful story about them. Rothfuss still hasn't really decided what their role in the story is, let alone what story he's telling. e: also I looked that chapter up and lol: quote:Bast pointed at Chronicler. “I don’t give a fiddler’s gently caress what you tell him, Reshi..." BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Mar 26, 2016 |
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Mar 25, 2016 21:41
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I checked out Lions of Al-Rassan because of this thread and, while it had its share of narrative/stylistic choices that kept me from whole-heartedly loving it, it was still much better than Rothfuss. The setting was so much better and so much better communicated on the page that I felt some belated secondhand embarrassment for old Pat upon returning to this thread
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Mar 25, 2016 22:20
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jivjov posted:Yeah; I wish the "infodump" from the Cthaeh had somehow happened in Name of the Wind instead of delayed to WMF. Rothfuss does a decent enough job of having Kvothe inquire after the Chandrian and the Amyr everywhere he goes...but the complete lack of information he gets in return is rough. The Cthaeh is one of my favorite parts of the entire series and probably one of the coolest somewhat original things Rothfuss put in there, but it's only like 4 paragraphs or so of thousands and thousands of pages of story. The "info dump" that it drops is literally the only information since that one story in the first book about the Chandrian that we get. And even then its just about him having lightning bolted one of them and more stuff about how Denna needs him in some way. Its telling that in order to gently caress up the world as much as it can it fills his head with tales of her suffering. Seeing as though no one mentions Denna in passing like they do Kvothe in the present tense of the story, I'm assuming either no one knows about her or she becomes known as someone/something else (maybe the angel he kills?). We also know that Bast needs to meet her at some point since he talks about her giant loving nose. There's just so many dangling threads to this story and I don't see how one book, even if it is 1200 pages long, can tie them all up in a satisfying way, especially with how long winded Rothfuss' writing is.
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Mar 25, 2016 22:48
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Solice Kirsk posted:The Cthaeh is one of my favorite parts of the entire series and probably one of the coolest somewhat original things Rothfuss put in there, but it's only like 4 paragraphs or so of thousands and thousands of pages of story. The "info dump" that it drops is literally the only information since that one story in the first book about the Chandrian that we get. And even then its just about him having lightning bolted one of them and more stuff about how Denna needs him in some way. Its telling that in order to gently caress up the world as much as it can it fills his head with tales of her suffering. Seeing as though no one mentions Denna in passing like they do Kvothe in the present tense of the story, I'm assuming either no one knows about her or she becomes known as someone/something else (maybe the angel he kills?). We also know that Bast needs to meet her at some point since he talks about her giant loving nose. There's just so many dangling threads to this story and I don't see how one book, even if it is 1200 pages long, can tie them all up in a satisfying way, especially with how long winded Rothfuss' writing is. I wouldn't say the Cthaeh is new and original though. It's comes across as an especially malevolent trickster god of the fae realm. Also it's supposedly guarded by an order who will hunt down anyone it speaks to and yet they somehow have no idea about Kvothe.  I'm all but positive that if/when Rothfuss finishes the 3rd book it's going to end on a "wait that's not the end" from Chronicler with a "tough poo poo, gently caress off" from Kvothe. Then Bast will grab Chronicler and tell his story to try and keep pushing Kvothe to return to his old self, and we'd maybe get Bast meeting Denna and whatever then. Rothfuss wastes a full novel-length of pages padding out the Harry Potter fanfic and poverty stuff. Like, I don't know how with his first book an editor didn't say "hey why is there a goddamn Harry Potter novella worth of padding here?" With his second one they wouldn't care because it'd sell well regardless, but even if I were to forgive his many fuckups in WMF (even the dumb sexcapades) it's still baffling just how much school bullshit he wrote. Hell even Sanderson didn't spend as many pages on Kaladin's depressing Bridge Four period and that part of TWoK still had more development to it than 90% of the university poo poo in Kingkiller.
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Mar 26, 2016 06:24
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the thing i never understand with fantasy writers is why they enjoy writing that boring stuff and not the interesting and exciting parts. it's like when grrm goes on and on about food or some boring characters. i feel like it'd be a slog writing through that poo poo.
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Mar 26, 2016 17:43
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Groovelord Neato posted:the thing i never understand with fantasy writers is why they enjoy writing that boring stuff and not the interesting and exciting parts. it's like when grrm goes on and on about food or some boring characters. i feel like it'd be a slog writing through that poo poo. I don't know, I saw a picture of GRRM and instantly understood why he likes to go on and on about food.
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Mar 26, 2016 17:46
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yeah you're right but i meant more cutting back to dany when her story is boring and goes nowhere when all the good stuff is in the west. he wrote like two books where nothing happens how do you do that.
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Mar 26, 2016 17:58
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A reminder deliberately teases the reader with what could be an interesting, or at least fun, story involving pirates and whatnot, but instead just goes on to talk about Kvothe's money problems some more. I suspect it is because Rothfuss beat his head against the wall trying to write that part and just couldn't do it.
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Mar 26, 2016 18:12
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Idea for a story: a child uses magic to survive on the streets, in a bleak yet fantastical adventure. Kingkiller has a child who uses magic, and a sequence in which said child has to survive on the streets... yet the obvious connection is never made.
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Mar 26, 2016 18:33
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I actually like the food bits in books like Lies of Locke Lamora, but they a) don't go on for very long and b) are used to reveal something about the setting/culture/character he's talking about. Except that time he used an elaborate meal as a setup for a pun one-liner, which was still totally worth it. In contrast, the food or money bits in Kingkiller are both redundant and don't really reveal anything novel or useful about either the setting or the character. They're just mindless filler, and they keep happening.
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Mar 26, 2016 19:10
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Reene posted:Except that time he used an elaborate meal as a setup for a pun one-liner, which was still totally worth it. I do not remember this. Refresh my memory?
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Mar 26, 2016 20:00
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quote:Jean finished his neck-cloths with one hand and reached for his breakfast with the other. One of the odder services the Villa Candessa provided for its long-term guests was its "likeness cakes" -- little frosted simulacra fashioned after the guests by the inn's Camorr-trained pastry sculptor. On a silver tray beside the looking glass, a little sweetbread Locke (with raisin eyes and almond-butter blond hair) sat beside a rounder Jean with dark chocolate hair and a beard. The baked Jean's legs were already missing.
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Mar 26, 2016 20:11
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Scott Lynch is another "when is the book coming out!" author but at least he handles it professionally.
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Mar 26, 2016 21:08
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pentyne posted:Scott Lynch is another "when is the book coming out!" author but at least he handles it professionally. He's also genuinely sick.
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Mar 26, 2016 21:32
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Idea for a story: a child uses magic to survive on the streets, in a bleak yet fantastical adventure. Kvothe couldn't make the connection to realize he was face to face with his aunt either, though I suspect if he had and he'd tried to explain things to her that he'd not only gently caress up but she'd hate him even more since her sister's confirmed as dead. 
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Mar 27, 2016 05:59
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Ornamented Death posted:He's also genuinely sick. How so?
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Mar 27, 2016 06:39
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The Puppy Bowl posted:How so? Suffers from severe depression, usually causing him to shut out the world and wallow in misery. Whereas Scott Lynch took 6 years for the the third book because he could barely stay sane and didn't work on anything else, Rothfuss takes on N+1 projects and writes books no one really wanted (Auri's special snowflake saga) and then flips out when people mention book 3. Also Lynch will 100% admit he's not working on the book for periods of time when the world is too much for him. http://relentlessreading.com/2015/03/29/depression-is-a-bastard-how-scott-lynch-faced-his-demons-and-became-a-bestseller/ quote:My ex-wife and I, we played World of Warcraft for years. It coincided with the height— I’d always been moody, flaky, weird, the standard artistic types — and I’d have episodes, which in hindsight are all related, but the bad stuff didn’t start until 2008. And what my family was going through, my paternal grandfather was dying very slowly of liver cancer, and it was consuming the whole family with his care and upkeep and so forth. It was really easy to hang that up as an excuse for what was going on — oh, we’re all miserable because of what’s happening to Grandpa. Once that’s concluded everything will go back to normal. Well, he died in 2009 and things only got worse and worse and worse. Culminating in my wife leaving me in 2010. quote:In retrospect my life and career were being destroyed by depression and my inability to confront it. Finally I got a call from my editor saying “Scott, I can only conclude that you don’t want to talk to me and you don’t trust my judgment. We can have any relationship as artistic and business collaborators that you want, but we can’t if you aren’t willing to trust me with the work you are doing.” Also, pushed back the date for his forth book into 2016 after cancelling a bunch of convention appearances because he was suffering but again freely disclosed this without hesitation.
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Mar 27, 2016 08:03
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 Lies really was a delightful book.
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Mar 27, 2016 11:52
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I was honestly pretty meh on tLoLL but when I read Red Seas Under Red Skies this month I was totally enthralled. Bought Republic of Thieves even before I finished it.
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Mar 27, 2016 11:57
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The Puppy Bowl posted:I was honestly pretty meh on tLoLL but when I read Red Seas Under Red Skies this month I was totally enthralled. Bought Republic of Thieves even before I finished it. What did you like about red seas that made it better than lies?
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Mar 27, 2016 15:31
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I'm not sure. I read Lies three years ago and Red Seas 3 days ago so the one is so much more vivid in my mind. Maybe the physical travel/ different locals gave intricate plot weavings a greater feeling of progression instead of just complications all piled on top of one another. I also remember not loving the con that the Gentlemen Bastards were playing before the Grey King came into the story. Felt like the dialogue was more on point too but that could easily just be enjoyment bread from greater familiarity with the characters. Also, Pirates are cool.
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Mar 27, 2016 15:48
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Fair enough, thanks! I definitely likes the first book more, but I see where you're coming from.
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Mar 27, 2016 16:10
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Reene posted:I actually like the food bits in books like Lies of Locke Lamora, but they a) don't go on for very long and b) are used to reveal something about the setting/culture/character he's talking about. Except that time he used an elaborate meal as a setup for a pun one-liner, which was still totally worth it. We're all going to look like such fools when Rothfuss reveals in book 3 that the Chandrian's powers come from a combination of numerology/arithmancy and temporarily buffing their power levels by binge eating pastries.
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Mar 28, 2016 18:50
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We're all gonna look like nerdy fools in general since we're reading Doors of Stone at all.
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Mar 28, 2016 19:22
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There most likely won't be a Doors of Stone. This isn't ultimately because Rothfuss isn't writing it, but because Rothfuss cannot write it.
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Mar 28, 2016 19:32
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I don't want to get the jivjov train rolling again, but I think it's less that we'll never see it, and more than we won't see it as soon as he's letting on. With multimedia deals in hand, there's really no way that he can't at least finish this much.
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Mar 28, 2016 19:48
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What I mean is that Kingkiller is a story that cannot have a good or satisfying ending. Not writing the invariably bad ending is Rothfuss's best decision as an author.
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Mar 28, 2016 20:07
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I just don't see how these books can be turned into an interesting tv show. A Song of Ice and Fire was able to pull it off because it had 3 huge eventful books full of schemes, drama, battles, and character deaths to work with. This book has a few things that could be interesting on screen (Chandrian attack, hunting down the thieves, show the loving pirates and shipwrecks, Adem training could be good if they just cut it down), but most of it is watching a kid go to school and bitch about money and creep up on a girl. How the hell do you make that interesting over several seasons? \/\/\/\/ No matter how much we all say we hate it, we're all hoping for that too \/\/\/\/ Solice Kirsk fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 20:09
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SpacePig posted:I don't want to get the jivjov train rolling again, but I think it's less that we'll never see it, and more than we won't see it as soon as he's letting on. With multimedia deals in hand, there's really no way that he can't at least finish this much. Hi. It's me, jivjov. And yeah, you're right; Doors of Stone is delayed as hell. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it comes out sooner rather than later.
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Mar 28, 2016 20:09
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I fully expect that if Doors of Stone comes out, which is an if, not a when, it will be ghost written by another author.
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Mar 28, 2016 20:21
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Isn't that becoming more common in writing, too? Like, they'll put Rothfuss' name in big letters to get people to look at it, and it'll be like: PATRICK ROTHFUSS With Turdis McWordis Even though the second guy probably did the finishing work? Or is that just unique to James Patterson?
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Mar 28, 2016 20:28
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SpacePig posted:Isn't that becoming more common in writing, too? Like, they'll put Rothfuss' name in big letters to get people to look at it, and it'll be like: It's never been uncommon really. People still question who wrote most of Shakespeare's stuff.
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Mar 28, 2016 20:44
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"Turdis McWordis" might be the best thing I've heard all day.
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Mar 28, 2016 20:47
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Benson Cunningham posted:I fully expect that if Doors of Stone comes out, which is an if, not a when, it will be ghost written by another author. A ghost writing in three parts, more like.
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Mar 29, 2016 02:58
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Benson Cunningham posted:I fully expect that if Doors of Stone comes out, which is an if, not a when, it will be ghost written by another author. In case it isn't obvious, it would be the sentient writing robot swarm known as Brandon Sanderson who would write it, while also writing a mistborn book, a stormlight book, and three "novellas" (60k words minimum).
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Mar 29, 2016 03:12
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jivjov posted:"Turdis McWordis" might be the best thing I've heard all day.
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Mar 29, 2016 17:50
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Nakar posted:I wonder if that pen name is taken... Turdis McWordis is an official SpacePig original IP. Please do not steal.
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Mar 29, 2016 18:07
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SpacePig posted:Turdis McWordis is an official SpacePig original IP. Please do not steal.
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Mar 29, 2016 18:14
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Nakar posted:Oh, so you're the one finishing the series? Just tell us how it ends then Mr. McWordis. Turdis. Can I call you Turdis? Turd? Just Turdis is fine. The series ends with Kvothe burning basically all of his bridges and never finding the Chandrian. He spends all of his time and expends every resource he has just to find Denna, who is sad and vulnerable all the time and easy to take advantage of. He finally gets to have sex with Denna, but is so good at it that he kills her, so he vows never to have sex with anyone ever again. His friends do cool things that he isn't a part of, and Ambrose get his comeuppance in a way some might consider humorous. Everything else is a footnote, at best. Kote, having told his story and remembering his true self, surges back to his former self. However, his current body cannot handle it, and he crumbles to dust. Bast suffers a sadness of three parts, and blinks out of existence. Chronicler releases his book in 3 volumes, but at a much slower pace than he originally intended. The story's already finished, it's just stuck in editing hell, and the third volume will be out by the end of the year, he swears.
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Mar 29, 2016 18:41
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The sad part is there's a decent chance the actual book will be even stupider. Is that a word? If it isn't, I propse a Rothfussian progression: stupid, stupider, stupidmost.
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Mar 29, 2016 18:44
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