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Galaga Galaxian posted:Better if you timed the jump so the battleship teleported just before the Ork ships all crashed into eachother, and then reappeared nearby and immediately All Ahead Full'ed into the dogpile. I had something like this happen twice. Once I was trying to sandwich-ram a ship that was trying to warp out by hitting BRB on two ork ships on opposite sides of him. Both Ork cruisers were heavily damaged as well, and the victim managed to warp out the last second, causing both my ships to ram into each other head-on and explode. They're headbutting Gork and Mork in heaven now... The other time was similar, I fired torpedoes at a ship from opposite sides so the ship just micro warps away and coincidentally both my ships triggered insubordination when it was clear they were going to hit each other instead.
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Mar 28, 2016 19:56
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I've fired torpedoes then jumped in front of my own torpedoes - turns out you can't hit the ship that fired the torpedoes with it's own torpedoes. They phase right through. Probably to make sure boosting ships firing torpedoes don't automatically blow them up when they spawn from the launchers.
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Mar 28, 2016 21:21
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I've seen nothing but retributions for assassination missions, why does everyone pick them? I would assume a 10k MWD emperor would be way more favorable. The problem with taunt is people chain taunting a ship--if the enemy has 4-5 taunts thats a full minute you cannot issue any commands to the targeted ship and taunt only has a 45 second cool down i believe. This is insane coupled with orks because they can destroy your ships 1 at a time and you literally cannot do anything about it. A ship in stasis can still issue orders and use its MWD but a taunted ship is literally helpless. Chaining things like nova cannons, stasis, and taunt are not fun at all. Assassination missions are entirely geared towards a cat and mouse game--you would not get 200 less points if you were intended to fight it out.
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Mar 28, 2016 21:30
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The_Angry_Turtle posted:I'm not sure whether the Imperium's Grand Ecclesiarch of Architecture and Interior Design is aware of how much Khorne likes skulls. Because Khorne REALLY likes skulls. Galaga Galaxian posted:I always viewed the Imperium's fascination with skull motifs as a "momento mori" kind of thing. A reminder to all that when they die, they should die in service to the God-Emperor. https://youtu.be/uOapqJ_x3G0?t=7m38s The Emperor himself approves of the skulls. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 21:37
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You know what's fun? Getting constantly matched up with max level admirals fielding fully upgraded ships. Sure is fun at level 5 fielding ships of level 5 or less against a constant stream of this poo poo. I know the given reason, but gently caress them not fixing it yet. Running into entire fleets of Astartes equipped Dauntlesses or, in one instance two Overlords and a Retribution, also fully Astartes kitted out, sure is fun. Especially since the supposed 20% success rate of lightning attacks on my Assassination flagship apparently means 3/4 of the initial ones hit, and proceed to blow up basically every system.
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Mar 28, 2016 21:48
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Yeah, it sucks. And frankly, the matchmaking system they propose sounds like something that needs a large and active playerbase to really work well, which seems perhaps a little optimistic, I don't know how well it'll work long term. I'm looking forward to the campaign and also some 2v2 comp stomps, myself  I've never been a big multiplayer RTS guy so I don't know how long that will even hold my interest.
Psykmoe fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 21:52
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Having Red Sunz favor should make BRB's sound effect be the Ork helmsman popping the ship into gear , stomping on a gas pedal followed by engine revving.
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Mar 28, 2016 22:33
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Lord Koth posted:You know what's fun? Getting constantly matched up with max level admirals fielding fully upgraded ships. Sure is fun at level 5 fielding ships of level 5 or less against a constant stream of this poo poo. I know the given reason, but gently caress them not fixing it yet. Running into entire fleets of Astartes equipped Dauntlesses or, in one instance two Overlords and a Retribution, also fully Astartes kitted out, sure is fun. Especially since the supposed 20% success rate of lightning attacks on my Assassination flagship apparently means 3/4 of the initial ones hit, and proceed to blow up basically every system. Psykmoe posted:Yeah, it sucks. And frankly, the matchmaking system they propose sounds like something that needs a large and active playerbase to really work well, which seems perhaps a little optimistic, I don't know how well it'll work long term. The whole system is hosed if they refuse to make it so that ship/skill upgrades increase the deployment cost of ships. I don't know why they are so stubborn on this issue.
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Mar 28, 2016 23:07
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You should be able to pick what point matches you want to look for then depending on your ship levels the person at the disadvantage should get more fleet points and a renown bonus. The 250-300 fleet battles were honestly the best but i'd love to choose some bigger matches just to test out some ships. They need to make big 4 player DM's and throw all factions in there. Imagine 500 fleet points a side--you wouldn't want escorts just because they'd get torn to shreds with all the fire power getting thrown around.
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Mar 28, 2016 23:10
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Lord Koth posted:You know what's fun? Getting constantly matched up with max level admirals fielding fully upgraded ships.
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Mar 28, 2016 23:32
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Phrosphor I'm watching your videos wondering why you can't understand the concept of broadside weapons. You don't always have to point the nose at the enemy!
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Mar 28, 2016 23:39
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Arglebargle III posted:Phrosphor I'm watching your videos wondering why you can't understand the concept of broadside weapons. You don't always have to point the nose at the enemy! if you don't point the nose at the enemy how are you going to ram them, dummy
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Mar 29, 2016 00:38
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Arghy posted:I've seen nothing but retributions for assassination missions, why does everyone pick them? I would assume a 10k MWD emperor would be way more favorable. Last patch included setting taunt's cooldown to the same sort of range as statis bomb and the like. 150~ seconds? Somewhere in there. It was broken as gently caress prior to the patch but you can't chain taunt a single ship ad infinitum any more.
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Mar 29, 2016 00:50
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Chomp8645 posted:The whole system is hosed if they refuse to make it so that ship/skill upgrades increase the deployment cost of ships. i can't wait to play the game for a week and then be able to bring two ships to every fight, that's a grand idea
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Mar 29, 2016 02:08
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I had a great game where I had three Dominators in a wedge formation, and a pack of swords off to the side. The ork player jammed the cogitator slow and MWJ'd a bunch of ships circling the lead Dom and Big Red Buttons. I guess I was faster on the draw, cause I push the invuln shields before he can taunt it. He lets up the cogitator, and I immediately jam it, full stop and MWJ my other two doms *backwards*, which puts me juuuussstt in minimum range for 2 nova cannons, which I center on my Dom. A quick prayer to the Emperor as I unpause, AAF and lock on the two Doms and my escorts. Both novas go off, cripple a bunch of his ships, my Dom's fine, and I sweep up. My hands were shaking after, I was so wired.
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Mar 29, 2016 02:30
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Weremacht posted:i can't wait to play the game for a week and then be able to bring two ships to every fight, that's a grand idea Yes that is exactly the logical conclusion to draw here how astute of you.
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Mar 29, 2016 02:51
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I wonder how space Marines are going to be line in contrast to Orks, given that they're also supposed to be close combat specialists. Because if they're close n nasty but with space marine accuracy, troop strength and morale I can see them being potentially more cheesy then Orks!
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Mar 29, 2016 03:01
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Chomp8645 posted:Yes that is exactly the logical conclusion to draw here how astute of you. what other conclusion should i draw? either each upgrade increases the cost by so little it doesn't matter or it does actually make a difference and suddenly my 95 point ork light cruisers cost as much as a heavier ship to deploy
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Mar 29, 2016 03:02
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Weremacht posted:what other conclusion should i draw? either each upgrade increases the cost by so little it doesn't matter or it does actually make a difference and suddenly my 95 point ork light cruisers cost as much as a heavier ship to deploy Uh I don't know, maybe that not everything happens in a void? Do you honestly thing I meant "make upgrades increase deployment costs and also change literally nothing else about the system to accommodate the change"? Do you think the current point caps are the immutable Word of God and they would just leave them be? You are being unbelievably dense about this.
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Mar 29, 2016 03:21
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Chomp8645 posted:Uh I don't know, maybe that not everything happens in a void? Do you honestly thing I meant "make upgrades increase deployment costs and also change literally nothing else about the system to accommodate the change"? Do you think the current point caps are the immutable Word of God and they would just leave them be? things you said: make ship upgrades cost points things you did not say: anything else sorry next time i'll strap on my esp helmet i post about pc game battlefleet gothic: armada balance
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Mar 29, 2016 03:29
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Panfilo posted:I wonder how space Marines are going to be line in contrast to Orks, given that they're also supposed to be close combat specialists. Because if they're close n nasty but with space marine accuracy, troop strength and morale I can see them being potentially more cheesy then Orks! Going by TT rules: No heavy kannonz, though bombardement guns are nasty in their own way and going by current precedent will have 6k range - as will pretty much all the other batteries on SM vessels. Heavy armor all around and maneuverability comparable to IN ships. But they're only as good as standard Ork vessels in terms of boarding (though better at lightning strikes) and have health on par with IN ships, so worse than Orks in that regard. Magni fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Mar 29, 2016 |
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Mar 29, 2016 03:30
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Weremacht posted:what other conclusion should i draw? either each upgrade increases the cost by so little it doesn't matter or it does actually make a difference and suddenly my 95 point ork light cruisers cost as much as a heavier ship to deploy This is a complete non issue with even a basic attempt at balancing. Increase the point value of larger games by quite a bit and of smaller games by a small amount. Set upgrade costs so a fully upgraded ship ends up costing a bit less than a ship one size class higher. Tweak values as necessary so that you end up with a choice between bringing more lower level ships or fewer higher levels one. There's absolutely no reason this isn't workable. Edit- Like, I'm not trying to be pissy or anything here, but point-based list building is really a solved problem. It's used all over the place in tabletop games, including tabletop BFG. In fact, both list-based and persistent campaign upgrades in BFG increased the point cost of the ship they were attached to. It's really silly that it doesn't work that way here. Paradoxish fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Mar 29, 2016 |
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Mar 29, 2016 03:30
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Paradoxish posted:This is a complete non issue with even a basic attempt at balancing. Increase the point value of larger games by quite a bit and of smaller games by a small amount. Set upgrade costs so a fully upgraded ship ends up costing a bit less than a ship one size class higher. Tweak values as necessary so that you end up with a choice between bringing more lower level ships or fewer higher levels one. There's absolutely no reason this isn't workable. They should increase the Point value of the ship by 5% per level past 1. If 5% is too much make it 4%, If 5% is too low make it 6%. 2 SPOOKY posted:Last patch included setting taunt's cooldown to the same sort of range as statis bomb and the like. 150~ seconds? Somewhere in there. It was broken as gently caress prior to the patch but you can't chain taunt a single ship ad infinitum any more. The main issue is Taunt + MWJ. If you throw Improved Auger Array on the Ship you end up with ~17,500 engagement range. The max range of weapons (I think) is 15k.
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Mar 29, 2016 03:40
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Xae posted:They should increase the Point value of the ship by 5% per level past 1. I don't really have an opinion on what values would work and I imagine it'd take some iteration. The core of the issue is that a ship that costs 150 points should be roughly equivalent in effectiveness to another ship that costs 150 points. If you aren't at least trying to balance things out like that there's no reason to have a point-based system in the first place.
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Mar 29, 2016 03:47
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Weremacht posted:things you said: make ship upgrades cost points Do you have any idea how retarded you sound?
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Mar 29, 2016 03:51
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Xae posted:We're a long way from competitive balance at this point. I wasn't really referring to that. I'm ok if the game is unbalanced this early. My general question is does it have complexity, depth, lasting power to have an interesting competitive multiplayer scene? I can see its popular right now, but frankly people are willing to play anything Warhammer related regardless of quality, which I learned the hardway from the hype about Mordheim.
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Mar 29, 2016 04:00
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That's going to depend a lot on how the balance issues shake out, honestly. There's a decent amount of depth and complexity. You have a lot of options for upgrading your ships and most non-escort ships will end up with between 5-9 active abilities that all tend to be pretty situational. Add to that the importance of proper positioning and there's probably a reasonably high skill ceiling. It's not going to be the next Starcraft or anything, but I can see it developing a scene like, I dunno, World in Conflict had for a while. All of that is pretty high up in the air because of the balance issues that exist right now, though.
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Mar 29, 2016 04:19
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Does Reload increase regular macro-cannon and lance speed? And does come to new heading/all ahead full/brace for impact reduce damage output?
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Mar 29, 2016 05:40
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Megasabin posted:I wasn't really referring to that. I'm ok if the game is unbalanced this early. My general question is does it have complexity, depth, lasting power to have an interesting competitive multiplayer scene? I can see its popular right now, but frankly people are willing to play anything Warhammer related regardless of quality, which I learned the hardway from the hype about Mordheim. Honestly how the multiplayer game plays out is up to Tindalos. If they're smart they'll patch early and often. They'll iterate on the major issues and resolve them. If they aren't smart we'll see a stagnant metagame with one race and probably 2-3 abilities on top that you'll need to play to compete.
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Mar 29, 2016 05:55
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Arglebargle III posted:Does Reload increase regular macro-cannon and lance speed? And does come to new heading/all ahead full/brace for impact reduce damage output? The tooltip just said any skills with a recharge and i've seen torpedoes and skills getting reduced when i use it. No turbo skills don't seem to have any down sides and BFI just gives a flat 20% armor increase.
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Mar 29, 2016 06:31
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Paradoxish posted:The core of the issue is that a ship that costs 150 points should be roughly equivalent in effectiveness to another ship that costs 150 points. I kind of have to disagree with this- a unit's point costs shouldn't just take how it interacts with enemy units, but with its own. Like say, a Guardsman on the tabletop is vastly inferior to a Space Marine, yet you can only get 5 Guardsmen per 2 Space Marines (last I checked). The reason for this is that, because of the options the Guardsman can access, those five Guardsmen can put some serious hurt on the Marines. So if a ship costs 150 points, it shouldn't just be because it's just as powerful as an enemy 150-pointer (though that's certainly an option), but because the point cost takes into account what the rest of the fleet can provide.
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Mar 29, 2016 07:36
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This game crashes way too much. And is there a list of the hotkey commands anywhere? They aren't in tooltips and they removed the rebind control screen to fix a bug or something, apparently.
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Mar 29, 2016 08:30
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UP AND ADAM posted:This game crashes way too much. And is there a list of the hotkey commands anywhere? They aren't in tooltips and they removed the rebind control screen to fix a bug or something, apparently. After the last patch I haven't crash once in MP myself. I used to crash after every game last patch. I'd love to know how to use hotkey as well, really difficult to manage a big fleet at the moment unless you put half your stuff on auto.
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Mar 29, 2016 09:15
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Is there anything you can do to counter Nova spam now? It's a little less able to just pop you from across the map but it's still extremely powerful. And Nova cannons are still immensely more useful than torpedoes so the 'correct' way to play Imperial remains to take all Nova-armed ships.
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Mar 29, 2016 09:45
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Shok atk is so dumb on data retrieval missionsArglebargle III posted:Phrosphor I'm watching your videos wondering why you can't understand the concept of broadside weapons. You don't always have to point the nose at the enemy! The answer is really easy, I am bad at the game and instead of stacking novas decided to go all in on torps and ramming. At the moment all of my fleets are completely destroyed after a series of games of being matched against micro gods with all favoured ships and I have kind of lost interest. In my opinion light cruiser/cruiser games are a lot more fun. Phrosphor fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Mar 29, 2016 |
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Mar 29, 2016 10:00
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Elukka posted:Is there anything you can do to counter Nova spam now? It's a little less able to just pop you from across the map but it's still extremely powerful. And Nova cannons are still immensely more useful than torpedoes so the 'correct' way to play Imperial remains to take all Nova-armed ships. I fought against you! One way is to close in, prioritize nova cannon ships and target weapons--you might get lucky and destroy their nova cannon. Dominators are esp vulnerable to this since they only have 5 weapons and are a pretty sub par cruiser once their nova cannon is gone. As chaos i try to lure the other player into cloud traps as blindly firing nova cannons is really dumb for the player and not likely to kill anything. I also use my speedy hellbringers with their voidshield upgrades to bait them because you need to land 2 perfect nova cannon shots to break 300 shields. Carrier BB's are pretty goddamn insane, had 3 matches against emperors and holy gently caress when 4 bomber waves land you feel it. The retribution is pretty weak i feel though give it SM favor and going for broadside passes sound pretty awesome. Troop strength is huge for larger ships, the less chance boardings have the better, chaos is super loving lucky to have nurgle because you can make a ship immune to boarding. Granted retributions are cheaper then emperors and they are pretty loving tanky. I had a 6 game winning streak, one was against a station defender who had 1 retribution and he called me a cheater for using auto cast bombs hahaha. I circled the station dodging all these goddamn asteroid fields as chaos just pummeling the poo poo outta everything. Prioritizing is so awesome, i just set priorities then focused on keeping my ships moving in the right directions with automate on just encase i forgot them. Watching the retribution take wave after wave of assault craft was brutal as hell. I made a mistake with the swords--go lance escorts all the way. Sure it AP macro cannons are good but a 6k orbiting firestorm is so much better because you'll also stay out of people with 3k AP macro cannons which will wreck your poo poo. Massed lance fire coming in from greater range is also amazing for focusing down enemy ships esp when their moving and you can't guarantee your escorts will be within the 3k range that AP macros need.
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Mar 29, 2016 11:00
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Arghy posted:I fought against you! One way is to close in, prioritize nova cannon ships and target weapons--you might get lucky and destroy their nova cannon. Dominators are esp vulnerable to this since they only have 5 weapons and are a pretty sub par cruiser once their nova cannon is gone. Every Imperial cruiser only has 5 weapons, and the Dominator has the most punishing close range broadside available to the Imperial fleet until you get to Battleships, that's only sub-par when you're bringing the ship to every conceivable mission regardless of opposition or scenario because of the nova cannon. It's hardly the broadside's fault when it's being deployed in a scenario where it's not the ideal choice just because you're more interested in the prow weapon.
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Mar 29, 2016 11:15
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Yeah but most cruisers don't feel the loss so keenly as the dominator and honestly you never want to get that close to another ship unless their chaos in which point it won't matter anyhow. Most dominators i've come across are kitted out for ranged work and just get slaughtered up close. Even my SM favor dominator thats kitted for broadsides seems to just suck at it. Every battle i bring it to it either gets destroyed or heavily damaged unless i use it to sit back and lob nova cannon shots. I think its the lack of turreted weapons--even a full broadside with AP macros isn't that big of a deal. You need to get multiple volleys in and your getting hit right back. Compared to other cruisers it doesn't have that much of a gimmick besides its nova cannon. Its basically 2 dauntless cruisers without macro turrets if you think about it.
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Mar 29, 2016 11:34
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It has much higher damage output then two Dauntlesses as the light cruiser only have light macro cannons whereas the full cruisers have macro/heavy macro cannons. e: but the lack of deck turrets does mean it needs support light cruisers and escorts for it to perform its role. NoNotTheMindProbe fucked around with this message at 11:40 on Mar 29, 2016 |
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Mar 29, 2016 11:36
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But every cruiser that's not chaos lacks dorsal turrets so that's not really a unique Dominator problem either.Arghy posted:I think its the lack of turreted weapons--even a full broadside with AP macros isn't that big of a deal. Like, it's seriously blowing my mind that we're implying 'has to fight broadside' as a downside. It's Battlefleet Gothic. Not every ship can be the Styx (no broadside guns, 3 dorsal turrets and a missile launcher) or a kustomized ork cruiser with upgraded prow weapons. I guess you can run an Imperial fleet that just doesn't have cruisers in it once your admiral is high enough level to have both Battlecruisers unlocked. Everything else has dorsal turrets! Even though tabletop Dauntless never had them And if a full dominator broadside with AP macros isn't a big deal, none of the other cruisers are worth it anyway. The Gothic for example takes seriously forever to kill anything, it just so happens that being at range doesn't slow its killing down even more. Psykmoe fucked around with this message at 11:57 on Mar 29, 2016 |
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Mar 29, 2016 11:50
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