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It's anecdotal, but I remember the Yu-Gi-Oh players at my daycamp 10+ years ago refused to explain what was going on, let me see the cards, or even let me watch when they played, even when the counselors told them to include me. Something about that game is just poisonous.
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Mar 27, 2016 05:44
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bongwizzard posted:And as a former lovely goth kid teenager, the appeal of Monsterhearts is lost on me. That was not a fun time, why the hell would you want to play at it? Kavak posted:I don't get the appeal of Monsterhearts either- I assume it's meant to be played tongue firmly implanted in cheek as some kind of parody of media of its sort, but said media is directed at people up to a decade younger than me. Why do people really like dramas like the Wire or Generation Kill? I mean, there's no katanas or elves or poo poo, and it's depressingly close to real life (in many ways based off real life stories and incidents). Even somewhat more fanciful stuff like Breaking Bad, it's still like, you want to watch a show about an arrogant rear end in a top hat who makes meth and ruins his relationships with his family as he steadily loses himself in both his own arrogance and the criminal world he thought he could just take what he wanted from? Turns out people like different stuff. "High school drama, with supernatural elements acting as metaphors" isn't even remotely out-there as far as concepts that interest people go. I don't get why anyone wants to play Call of Cthulhu myself, but there you are.
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Mar 27, 2016 06:12
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They're liking stuff I don't like and that is wrong. 
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Mar 27, 2016 06:13
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Kai Tave posted:Why do people really like dramas like the Wire or Generation Kill? I mean, there's no katanas or elves or poo poo, and it's depressingly close to real life (in many ways based off real life stories and incidents). Even somewhat more fanciful stuff like Breaking Bad, it's still like, you want to watch a show about an arrogant rear end in a top hat who makes meth and ruins his relationships with his family as he steadily loses himself in both his own arrogance and the criminal world he thought he could just take what he wanted from? This thread repeatedly enters into armchair psychology mode when discussing OSR or d20 being popular. Saying "I don't see the appeal" is probably the tamest possible way of not wanting to play something.
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Mar 27, 2016 06:23
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After the WoW TCG got canned, I picked up a YGO starter that had a skeleton dragon on it. I looked through the cards once, tried reading the rules, and nothing really sparked any interest. I've heard that the source material is hilariously hosed-up, though. Later on, I found out YGO is more-or-less banned at my LGS. From what I can tell, it only brings in little kids and creeps, and staff doesn't want to babysit either group.
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Mar 27, 2016 06:29
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Terrible Opinions posted:This thread repeatedly enters into armchair psychology mode when discussing OSR or d20 being popular. Saying "I don't see the appeal" is probably the tamest possible way of not wanting to play something. Well I don't see the appeal of a lot of stuff but I generally try to avoid armchair psychoanalysis my own self unless we're talking something like Black Tokyo which, sorry, I'm gonna judge a little. I mean, I can absolutely understand that someone who had a real lovely high school experience may not be thrilled to play High School Hormonal Teenage Assholes: the Game, same way as I've heard stories of veterans who aren't really into games with a contemporary military focus or cops who aren't into police-centric games. If it hits close to home or if it's your lovely day job then I can totally see why someone might elect to pass. I'm not really a big supernatural romance fan personally, but I can at least understand that for people who are and like that sort of interpersonal drama of dumb kids making bad decisions and (hopefully) growing up into less of an rear end in a top hat that Monsterhearts is basically the only game in town.
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Mar 27, 2016 06:29
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Kai Tave posted:Well I don't see the appeal of a lot of stuff but I generally try to avoid armchair psychoanalysis my own self unless we're talking something like Black Tokyo which, sorry, I'm gonna judge a little. I think a lot of it is also just not finding high school to be interesting. Like I personally didn't have a lovely high school experience but that was also nothing about it exciting enough to want to revisit. All of the good bits were spending time with my friends, most of whom I'm still in regular contact with as an adult. High drama spats were things other people did and really seemed like a huge pain in the rear end rather than exciting. I'd wage that most of the STEM types who love charts had similarly boring high school experiences. Which of course is itself armchair psychology.
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Mar 27, 2016 06:52
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I know my LGS store had it banned for a long time also because cops were called more times about YGO issues than everything else combined in the history of the store.
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Mar 27, 2016 09:10
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inklesspen posted:"This Magical Minutia brings the World of Oz to life for Witch Girls Adventures and includes no Cliques, abilities and more." My conviction that the WGA/Bellum Maga team are writing their text with speech-to-text software only grows stronger with time.
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Mar 27, 2016 13:21
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gradenko_2000 posted:The System Mastery folks also said something to the effect of the Yu Gi Oh community being really really bad. Way back in middle school my brother participated in a local Yu Gi Oh tournament at the shopping mall, and my Dad and I were hanging out there for moral support. It was mostly kids our age and younger, and the tournament was just for fun. No cash prizes or "Top 3 Champion Giveaways" or anything of the sort. What caught our Dad's attention was this one player somewhere in his 30s, playing against kids and winning. He had a great deck simply due to the fact that he could simply buy the individual rare cards being sold for $20 a pop without having to beg his parents to splurge their money on a children's card game or save up weeks' worth of allowances. There were no adults in the store aside from him and the shopkeeper/staff (parents were just dropping the kids off to come back in several hours), so our Dad just watched us like a hawk to make sure this older guy didn't do anything weird. I think at one point he directly confronted him, asking him why he was playing with kids instead of people his own age. But my memory's fuzzy, so I can't recall what came out of that.
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Mar 27, 2016 13:32
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moths posted:After the WoW TCG got canned, I picked up a YGO starter that had a skeleton dragon on it. I looked through the cards once, tried reading the rules, and nothing really sparked any interest. I've heard that the source material is hilariously hosed-up, though. The initial manga was about a kid who found an ancient artifact containing the "king of games" who was the best at every game ever. That said their definition of game included such things as "Russian roulette" and "I bet I can kill you with just my index finger". At some point there was a card game arc and that spun off into the anime which then spun off into the card game. If you're wondering why the duelist kingdom arc included such things as Yugi attacking the floating castle in the sky to drop it on his opponent's team, or people summoning giant loving monsters without sacrificing poo poo, it's because they only turned it into a physical actual game after the fact. That's why the second season has Kaiba buying out Pegasus inc and going "Holy poo poo this whole thing is hosed we're implementing actual rules now."
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Mar 27, 2016 15:48
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The actual manga is kind of amazing because it's initially just "some dude did a mean thing to Yugi, then Pharaoh shows up and loving murders him." Nobody's being "sent to the Shadow Realm," he straight up kills them. He sets one dude on fire and just walks away laughing as he burns to death - and all that dude did was, like, cut in front of him in line. Sure, the card game stuff happens later and then it gets tamed down by a lot, but christ, those first few books.
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Mar 27, 2016 19:14
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The thing I heard was that the main character keeps siccing his ANCIENT GOD BUDDY onto regular dudes in impossibly disproportionate retribution over perceived slights. It's the kind of insane bullshit you'd actually expect a child to do, which makes it almost-horror in the same way that cornfield Twilight Zone episode played out.
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Mar 27, 2016 19:20
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ProfessorCirno posted:The actual manga is kind of amazing because it's initially just "some dude did a mean thing to Yugi, then Pharaoh shows up and loving murders him." He's called Yami Yugi for a reason, he was initially a friendly but still evil spirit looking out for his host (and dishing out ironic punishments to actually evil people in the first few chapters). It's still funny to go from "this villain was going to beat me up until I'm hospitalized until I pay him protection money, so I'm going to make him maim himself in an ironic manner...wait fucker is going to KILL ME? Okay, penalty game time, I'm making him go loving insane forever" to "this punk from another class knocked over our both and punched my friend, time to kill him with plastic explosives" moths posted:The thing I heard was that the main character keeps siccing his ANCIENT GOD BUDDY onto regular dudes in impossibly disproportionate retribution over perceived slights. It's the kind of insane bullshit you'd actually expect a child to do, which makes it almost-horror in the same way that cornfield Twilight Zone episode played out. Early Yugi-oh is amazing. The first few chapters, he's completely unaware of what his puzzle thing is doing outside of the fact it's protecting him, and the spirit inside only wakes up when something big genuinely goes wrong for him or his friends, at witch point it goes overboard to protect him. It kills and destroys people's lives, but it only does it genuinely evil motherfuckers who's personality flaws are what determine their fate. Sometimes it even acts appropriately, one of his teachers is embarrassing one of her students just for laughs and the spirit just embarrasses her in return. Then it starts murdering and crippling people because they steal trading cards or make fun of Yugi. NutritiousSnack fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Mar 27, 2016 |
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Mar 27, 2016 20:00
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Sounds like Yu Gi Oh was originally a horror manga, then became something else to make it more palatable to the masses.
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Mar 27, 2016 20:02
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Libertad! posted:Sounds like Yu Gi Oh was originally a horror manga, then became something else to make it more palatable to the masses. Exactly. It was a semi popular horror comic that used games as a motif, until an chapter literally ripping Magic the Gathering got tons of fan mail asking for a sequel chapter to it and the one of villain developing a fanbase. When he revisited it, it became one of Shonen Jump's biggest sellers and the rest is history.
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Mar 27, 2016 20:13
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Libertad! posted:Sounds like Yu Gi Oh was originally a horror manga, then became something else to make it more palatable to the masses. The Shonen Jump strategy for success involves removing all the interesting ideas from your manga and instead adding tournaments.
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Mar 27, 2016 22:10
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DalaranJ posted:The Shonen Jump strategy for success involves removing all the interesting ideas from your manga and instead adding tournaments. The larger your cast of incidental characters the more "favorite character" polls you can fill your pages with. I'm pretty sure if no one stops him, bleach will eventually just be 125 pages of cast reminders followed by a single page of talking.
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Mar 27, 2016 22:37
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NutritiousSnack posted:I legit don't care about the politics of this at all, and think the "Mah FREE SPEECH" and talk about all evil strawman political enemies who dare strawman their all evil political enemies sums up why, but why is there such a thing as erotic role playing paper and pen tabletop games? Movies, books, and even video games make sense 100%. All private things, you can enjoy on your own. I agree concept of erotic games and other couples tools, because hey sharing your sexuality with your partner and improving or adding spice to your sex life. I understand talking about fellow enthusiasts of your fetish/kink/sexual preference and building a community. Everyone from the LGBT communities to penthouse to BSDM people. This is silly. Some people are just comfortable with sex and sexual content, so it's not a big deal for them to play a game centered on such things. It doesn't even have to be fetishistic either. Apocalypse World, one of the bigger Indie games, has loving as a game mechanic IIRC, and it's not presented weird or anything (though you probably wouldn't want to play AW with your parents either). I'm a bit Puritan myself, so I'd rather not, but c'mon, there's nothing conceptually wrong about games with a heavy or primary focus on sex. Or maybe I'm wrong. Am I wrong?
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Mar 30, 2016 03:49
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I mean there's a difference between a mechanic that's "ok we hosed what happens" and having sex be the focus of a game.
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Mar 30, 2016 06:29
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GrizzlyCow posted:Or maybe I'm wrong. Am I wrong? Elfgames posted:I mean there's a difference between a mechanic that's "ok we hosed what happens" and having sex be the focus of a game. It's this. Like sure, I think it's kind of silly and a little dumb that Vincent Baker has decided that the moves in Apocalypse World which are all about what happens when two characters share an unguarded moment with one another amidst the hosed-up post-apocalyptic mayhem is specifically You Had Sex, but there's a marked difference between that and something like Black Tokyo which is a sprawling d20 RPG with making GBS threads Dicknipple prestige classes and feats which alter how vulnerable to tentacle rape you are. You can, if you want to be reductive to the point of uselessness, say that both Apocalypse World and Black Tokyo (or whatever weird sex RPG we're talking about) have "loving as game mechanics" but it's more apt to say that Apocalypse World has a mechanic to cover what happens in the aftermath of two people loving while most of the sex-centric RPGs that are at the center of these "free speech" rallies are about rolling for anal circumference. I have yet to encounter the irl gaming group that sits down to play a rousing game of Black Tokyo. While I'm certain that group exists somewhere out there, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that they're in a distinct minority because the sorts of people who really want to roleplay out some sort of hentai fetish-fuel adventure generally seem to prefer doing so in a way that helps them pretend that the other parties involved aren't also a bunch of dudes looking to get their rocks off.
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Mar 30, 2016 08:26
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They're the sorts of games you have on your shelf less to play and more to show off how edgy and cool and mature you are, and there are still a lot of people who despite being grown rear end adults who think that way; the last group I gamed with IRL was very pleased with having the book of erotic fantasy around for just that reason. I did not play with them for long (for unrelated, more grogs.txt reasons). neongrey fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Mar 30, 2016 |
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Mar 30, 2016 09:44
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I might have missed it, but can anyone summarize any reasons why you'd go with TTL or DMG over just pushing 5e stuff to DriveThru/RPGNow?
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Apr 2, 2016 06:32
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psychopomp posted:I might have missed it, but can anyone summarize any reasons why you'd go with TTL or DMG over just pushing 5e stuff to DriveThru/RPGNow? Here's a big blog post breaking down the various particulars of the DMG license agreement and the conclusion he comes to is "there aren't any." There's also this quick and dirty breakdown: Evil Mastermind posted:So going by their website the normal OBS payout is 70% of the cost of a PDF product if you sell exclusively through them. So I write something, charge $20 for it, and I get $14 per sale. tl;dr Publishing through the DMG has the advantage of your work being displayed on whatever digital storefront thing WotC creates for it and the veneer of officiality, otherwise you get paid less and have less control over your own product.
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Apr 2, 2016 06:42
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You should only go with the DMG if you were, for some reason, already going to be writing using the Forgotten Realms stuff and absolutely cannot make do without it.
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Apr 2, 2016 06:52
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Elfgames posted:I mean there's a difference between a mechanic that's "ok we hosed what happens" and having sex be the focus of a game. That and quite frankly I understand, and empathize with the concept of purely "sex" game existing as a solo activity or as a thing between sexual partners just not at a gaming table with fri Kai Tave posted:"free speech" rallies Bliss Stage is one of the worst offenders about this and it wasn't one of the "Free Speech" or "Freeze Peach" or whatever straw man you conduct for it. I'd even argue Monster Hearts avoids it barely and it's predisposed for lovely groups to turn into a bad game of Black Tokyo. TG as an industry has a problem with sexuality and it's how it relates and communicates mature sexual themes. gently caress it even has a problem on how it can offer titillation without being alienating because of it's social yet interactive nature. There is a wider problem in how the gently caress it can address this, just because of the medium's natural constraints. Yeah there are outlieres like Apocalypse World and the like, but the default thing is how the hell do you handle it when the default group is a group of friends/acquaintances in anything from being teenagers to adults in their forties/fifties
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Apr 2, 2016 07:20
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I don't know why every time I bring up some lovely rapegame someone else has to come along and bring up Bliss Stage like I'm tacitly giving it a pass, have I ever at any point in my posting history on these forums proclaimed my love for Bliss Stage? I'm aware Bliss Stage exists and is utterly awful, thanks. And what straw man am I creating exactly, because every time someone makes a lovely game full of rapey nonsense or designed with the purpose of riling people up (Gamergate: the Card Game) and someone so much as says boo about it the usual cast of characters come out in force talking about pernicious censorship and the infringement of free speech. It happened with James Desborough, it happened with Tournament of Rapists, and it happened with Alpha Blue. I mean, it doesn't actually go anywhere and the people bitching about it don't really come across as that motivated to do anything besides bitch about it. For all the foofaraw over Desborough's GG game getting pulled from DTRPG by the wicked Fred Hicks, I notice his Patreon hasn't swollen with sympathy pledges from people eager to see more of his cutting-edge social commentary in game form.
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Apr 2, 2016 07:32
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senrath posted:You should only go with the DMG if you were, for some reason, already going to be writing using the Forgotten Realms stuff and absolutely cannot make do without it. Beamdog Lead Designer posted:"Half of our team is made up of ex-modders or guys who have been playing Baldur’s Gate for 15 years. They know deep, deep in their bones what does and does not feel like Baldur’s Gate. We leaned on them very heavily in terms of running designs past them. Does this feel like Baldur’s Gate to you? Does this feel like you’re playing a Baldur’s Gate adventure?” I suppose it is easy to see how tabletop gaming continues its trajectory when even videogame designers working with big-name properties somewhat uncritically accept the idea that you can "feel" whether a game is right and that the Forgotten Realms' infinite pre-existing fiction is tautologically the reason to make more Forgotten Realms fiction. Though it worries me that I sort of see what he means about how you can just drop things as asides in Forgotten Realms and instantly conjure fantastical images in (some) players' minds because of their extant knowledge of the setting (which is also incidentally why I believe games set in The Players' Actual Local Area are almost always amazing), but...it also seems to guarantee less effort put into designing the game for people who do NOT already have Volo's Guides on their bookshelf.
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Apr 2, 2016 07:37
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NutritiousSnack posted:I'd even argue Monster Hearts avoids it barely and it's predisposed for lovely groups to turn into a bad game of Black Tokyo. Wow, that's some hyperbole.
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Apr 2, 2016 11:31
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Wow, that's some hyperbole. Let me tell you about Monster Hearts Quest, on /tg/
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Apr 2, 2016 15:15
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Kai Tave posted:It's this. Like sure, I think it's kind of silly and a little dumb that Vincent Baker has decided that the moves in Apocalypse World which are all about what happens when two characters share an unguarded moment with one another amidst the hosed-up post-apocalyptic mayhem is specifically You Had Sex, but there's a marked difference between that and something like Black Tokyo which is a sprawling d20 RPG with making GBS threads Dicknipple prestige classes and feats which alter how vulnerable to tentacle rape you are. Honesty the second sounds more interesting, in a "oh Takashi Miike, why do I keep watching your movies?" kinda way. Is there a game that does body-horror stuff well? Part of being a lame goth kid was watching Tetsuo the Iron Man a million times and I have a mild fondness for that stuff.
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Apr 2, 2016 15:38
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Double Cross? or Unknown Armies, depending on what you want
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Apr 2, 2016 15:47
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I like nechronica's body horror mechanics. Everyone is undead so you get parts of you blown off and just salvage new bits. But the game has some dumb baggage here and there. I don't know how well it works in practice, never got to play it.
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Apr 2, 2016 15:54
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Bedlamdan posted:Let me tell you about Monster Hearts Quest, on /tg/ Well, that strikes me as more /tg/ than Monster Hearts itself.
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Apr 2, 2016 15:56
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I could see some of the Monsterhearts skins leading to really hosed up territory if you've made the poor life decision to game with that kind of player, but 1. there's no way it could get to the level of Rape Hentai: The d20 Supplement (unless there's some seriously hosed up third party skins I don't know) and 2. that kind of player would look at an RPG that's Degrassi by way of Supernatural and call it some sort of cultural marxist conspiracy for girls and refuse to play anyhow because it lacks 20 page of gear tables, or be in it solely to sabotage the game and remind you why you shouldn't play with that kind of gamer.
Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Apr 2, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 16:18
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Well, that strikes me as more /tg/ than Monster Hearts itself.
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Apr 2, 2016 16:19
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Nuns with Guns posted:2. that kind of player would look at an RPG that's Degrassi by way of Supernatural and call it some sort of cultural marxist conspiracy for girls and refuse to play anyhow because it lacks 20 page of gear tables or be in it solely to sabotage the game and remind you why you shouldn't play with that kind of gamer.
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Apr 2, 2016 16:22
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Terrible Opinions posted:That kind of play is not a specific MRA stereotype. The lady who draws all that Supernatural anal prolapse porn is fairly liberal, but still brings her fetishes into any MUD that will take her. I was imagining the awkward crossover between regressive nazis and anime. The fetishist that can't stop RPing about the stuff that turns them on is the other kind of gamer. Then there's the another other kind of gamer that would just rant about how this specific game is bad because it's not catering to old school D&D sensibilities. Really you could go on for a while with all the badwrong stuff people do in ttrpgs but I guess that's for the Catpiss thread
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Apr 2, 2016 16:31
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Mainstream movies are made with actors and those actors have romance and love scenes frequently. Sometimes they're fairly explicit and sometimes as the characters start to get into the nitty gritty the camera pans away and then cuts to the smoking in bed scene. Stage plays with live actors have romantic scenes and sometimes the actors smooch! Usually the actors doing the smooching are not married to one another and quite often they have relationships already with someone who they're not smooching on stage or film with. Even in improvisational theater, where the actors do not have the script telling them to get it on, you can have a romance scene. It happens and if the actors are cool and good and comfortable with one another, it doesn't have to be weird. So if romance scenes and love scenes in tabletop RPGs invariably seem to skew to the gross, weird, creepy, inappropriate, or downright abusive? It's not a problem inherent with group make-believe between friends. The problems have to do with the context (what did we all intend to sign up for vs. what are we now finding ourselves doing), the people (Gross Gary is not a guy I want to RP a love scene with, yuck), and the game (this dungeon crawling game where 80% of the rules are focused on tactical combat does not seem like the right system for reprising Romeo & Juliet). In my opinion the first two are much more important factors than the third, because almost all RPGs have an explicit explanation or mechanic for social interactions already, and romance/sex scenes are just another variety of social interaction. Roll Diplomacy or make a Charisma check or whatever if you really want to, but you no more need a table to decide how well you and Prince Charming hosed, then you need a table to decide how well you and Prince Charming enjoyed your dinner conversation. And that's when Prince Charming is an NPC - how many of you routinely force PCs to make social-mechanics checks when they're interacting with one another? There's no need, because the players are able to improvise and decide how both sides of the interaction should go. The dice get involved when there's a conflict to be resolved, and (in particular) where one or both sides have something at risk. It's possible for a sexual encounter to have risk or conflict, but not necessary, and you can play a game where you decide in advance not to mechanically support risk and conflict into your love scenes. But if the people coming to your game table weren't looking for a romantic comedy, intense sexual thriller, or tittilating horror flick? Maybe the embarassing sexual mishaps, intense sex scene, or naked tit-vampire attacks are inappropriate. And if your crew you're gaming with aren't well-adjusted mature adults who you'd be comfortable roleplaying romantic or sexual scenes with? Then maybe you guys should avoid exploring that stuff. But if the game system you're playing doesn't explicitly support the kind of social encounter that involves the squishy bits rubbing against each other? Do what you do every time your game system doesn't have rules for the specific social encounter you're in, it's not an actual problem. And by extension, there's not an actual pressing need for an RPG system that goes out of its way to add in sex mechanics, any more than we need an RPG that spends a chapter on dancing mechanics, or partying mechanics, or hanging out watching movies with your buddies mechanics. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Apr 2, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 17:43
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I agree with you to a great degree, but I disagree about actors and their ability to let fake romance slide on the whole. There are industries built off the backs of actors not being able to avoid turning fiction into reality.
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Apr 2, 2016 17:47
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