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Lady Naga posted:It's only useless if you have all the champions (so, someone who isn't trying to catchup) and I somehow doubt Riot got League to be the biggest MOBA in the world by not implementing ways for people to spend money. There is literally no way for people have been in the game for a few years to use the in game currency.
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Mar 30, 2016 18:05
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Lady Naga posted:It's only useless if you have all the champions (so, someone who isn't trying to catchup) and I somehow doubt Riot got League to be the biggest MOBA in the world by not implementing ways for people to spend money. This is barely a catch up mechanic, the real change was making XP better from level 15 on. New people have to roll the dice and maybe get a lovely champion/skin or one they already own. New people are also less likely to get S ranks. The system is just another one where Riot is trying to get you to play together with friends and play the game more while also giving whales with a gambling addiction another avenue to give them money. moush fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Mar 30, 2016 |
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Mar 30, 2016 18:05
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Kashuno posted:There is literally no way for people have been in the game for a few years to use the in game currency. What? moush posted:This is barely a catch up mechanic, the real change was making XP better from level 15 on. New people have to roll the dice and maybe get a lovely champion/skin or one they already own. New people are also less likely to get S ranks. The system is just another one where Riot is trying to get you to play together with friends and play the game more while also giving whales with a gambling addiction another avenue to give them money. Getting to level 30 is a very very very tiny piece in the puzzle, until this point there was literally no way for players to get new champions without spending RP or grinding away at IP. Considering there's over 100 of them in the game, plus runes, plus rune pages, it would take years to catch up. This is a way to expedite the process. It's not the best no but considering there were no catchup mechanics in place beforehand it's a step in the right direction.
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Mar 30, 2016 18:12
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moush posted:This is barely a catch up mechanic, the real change was making XP better from level 15 on. New people have to roll the dice and maybe get a lovely champion/skin or one they already own. New people are also less likely to get S ranks. The system is just another one where Riot is trying to get you to play together with friends and play the game more while also giving whales with a gambling addiction another avenue to give them money. I can't believe I'm defending lady Naga. But good lord people it's literally free items/skins you wouldnt have unlocked would have taken longer to buy in the past. If you hate it that much just disregard the chests and pretend it doesn't exist. For the people complaining they already have everything. To unlock every champion you literally need months of play time and/or hundreds of dollars invested in the game to have all champs and runes. When your playtime is 4 digits long it's probably reasonable for riot not to focus on giving you more poo poo to buy
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Mar 30, 2016 18:15
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I'm just waiting for this solution to people who have all the champs. Riot said it's coming so we'll see what they choose. I like my chroma idea 
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Mar 30, 2016 18:16
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Kashuno posted:I'm just waiting for this solution to people who have all the champs. Riot said it's coming so we'll see what they choose. I like my chroma idea I agree that chromas should be an unlock. Whether champion mastery or some other system. I get riot just loses out on money that way, but certainly painting fizz yellow is not a taxing project
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Mar 30, 2016 18:20
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Primetime posted:I can't believe I'm defending lady Naga. But good lord people it's literally free items/skins you wouldnt have unlocked would have taken longer to buy in the past. I mean people are complaining because if you've played this game for several years, you own all of the champs so half of the boxes are completely useless because the game is too stupid to stop giving champion shards. With the amount of grinding you need to do to get keys, it's completely absurd that you can get 100% unusable loot.
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Mar 30, 2016 18:21
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I think the only thing I don't like/don't understand about the crafting system is that they have separate essence counts for champions and then one for everything else. Letting people with every champion just reduce any champion shards they get into regular essence would go a ways toward letting them actually use the stuff. Other than that though it's free poo poo and you don't even need to spend money to access it (unlike say, TF2's chests).
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Mar 30, 2016 18:22
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A combined essence system would solve a lot of problems, yeah. It would make champion shards worth something at least.
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Mar 30, 2016 18:23
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The lack of perspective is rather stunning.
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Mar 30, 2016 18:23
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Lady Naga posted:The lack of perspective is rather stunning. Why?
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Mar 30, 2016 18:24
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I mean seriously, if the game just didn't give you champ shards at all if you have all champs, problem solved.
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Mar 30, 2016 18:29
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Lady Naga posted:The lack of perspective is rather stunning. Just because you think it is a catch-up mechanic (despite that never being a stated goal of the devs) doesn't mean everyone else is wrong
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Mar 30, 2016 18:29
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It's admittedly kind of frustrating that you can get champions you already own; I'm not even level 30 yet (just started playing a bit ago) and out of the boxes I've gotten I've gotten a handful of champions I already own... which I then rerolled to get a champion I didn't/disenchanted for essence, but it was still vaguely frustrating. I can imagine it would be doubly frustrating if you owned everything. Like other people have mentioned, I think the best solution would be to make one kind of dust so nothing goes to waste. That said, yeah, I agree it's obviously a catchup mechanic, and I totally appreciate that it's in the game as I have a whole lot to catch up on! I like free things, especially as I am easily encouraged into buying frivolous stuff like skins, both for myself and other people. I've gotten some really cool stuff out of it so far (Final Boss Veigar!). But I am also like, 3000% sure that even if some changes were made (essence all one kind, can't get champions you own, etc) people (who own all the champions and all the skins) would probably still complain because even going into it knowing what it's for, people still get upset about stuff. I mean, I was still bummed when I got a Braum shard (one of the first champions I ever bought) even knowing I could reroll him. Feelings are illogical and dumb. skellycakes fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Mar 30, 2016 |
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Mar 30, 2016 18:30
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Firebert posted:Just because you think it is a catch-up mechanic (despite that never being a stated goal of the devs) doesn't mean everyone else is wrong It has nothing to do with right or wrong, if your response to someone is saying "hey this allows me to get champions faster than grinding IP all day, that's pretty awesome" is "yeah but what about me? I own all of them anyway!" it kind of comes off tone-deaf.
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Mar 30, 2016 18:33
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Firebert posted:I mean people are complaining because if you've played this game for several years, you own all of the champs so half of the boxes are completely useless because the game is too stupid to stop giving champion shards. With the amount of grinding you need to do to get keys, it's completely absurd that you can get 100% unusable loot. I get that, and certainly generalizing essence is the most elegant solution. It's just that people complaining and demanding more, even after they've consumed literal months worth of content, is a bit ridiculous. I know I've played (relatively) casually since 2013 at this point and easily need to grind another 100k RP to finish my champ roster. So, even with some 2k games played I still need to use crafting as a catch-up device. If this system is helping people who've played consistently since 2013, I can't imagine the demographic of people who own everything you can buy is that huge.
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Mar 30, 2016 18:33
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Ok, here's more. Please bear in mind, I'm not arguing with you, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind things, so I can implement intelligently.slydingdoor posted:After the double kill on the support and mid, you try to help bot push its wave instead of mid. The enemy adc is still alive, so pushing that does nothing. Their mid died though so pushing that would be uncontested. The best choice would probably be to take dragon and crab right then and gotten 7 stacks, or just farmed your stacks if dragon were taken. Instead you end up starting dragon after everyone's respawned, it wastes a lot of time you could have spent stacking. I'm trying to think back to what (if any) thought I had here. I think it was that if I helped bot shove up, they would then come help me with dragon. This probably falls under that category of, "Don't do anything assuming a Bronze player will react and help you?" In that light, yeah, makes sense to shove open mid, which I can do solo, without having to expect bot to react and actually come dragon with me after I helped shove up their lane. I suppose I also could have just started dragon, and hoped that bot figured it out and came and helped. slydingdoor posted:Your team fights and does a lot of dumb roams happen and you end up having to hold top again. In general, you want to yell at your top--Quinn the best wave catcher in the game, who has no cs--to pick it up then go back to whatever stupid roams she's doing, because she can both cs and be relevant easier than you. On the way to pick up the wave, you take blue, instead of going straight there or taking any other camp. The small camps respawn faster and take less time to kill, so killing them is better for stacking and you might have caught more cs with the time. Also, Lux could have used that blue a minute later, when she backs for being out of mana. I'm trying not to talk as much in game. I get irritable, and find that any comment in Bronze, no matter how well intended, is often met with the player tilting. Perhaps it is a matter of phrasing, "Quinn, come take this free CS" is better than, "Hey numbnuts, stop uselessly roaming and control your loving lane." On the issue of taking blue, I guess I'm so used to the notion of buff control being incredibly important, that I always try to take it as jungle if it is there. Maybe this is part of your overall concept that (post-sated in particular) I'm a little too focused on jungle camps? I could definitely see that. slydingdoor posted:Their top pushes a wave to tower and you turn around from chickens to go there to catch it, then try to push tower, but they return after you get only 5 hits on their tower. If a wave hits the tower and the laner isn't hitting the tower, they backed. Pushing that lane will do nothing unless their tower is really low. You can instead farm bot and be closer to the ARAMing mid, and be able to get the dragon, which probably would get you sated right then. I understand the dragon being a better option, but outside of that, I don't understand the comment on pushing lane. I thought it was usually valuable to punish someone's absence by pushing lane and killing a wave on their tower. I also assume that five tower hits now means five fewer that you have to make to eventually get the thing knocked down. Is the idea that if you can't take the tower in one go, it's probably not worth pushing it?
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Mar 30, 2016 18:39
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Lol what the gently caress guys if Riot was actually worried about "catching up" they'd revamp the costs and price reduction schedule of champs, which has been pretty desperately needed for like two years. Crafting is just there to get people to buy keys and chests and poo poo with RP.
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Mar 30, 2016 18:40
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Primetime posted:I get that, and certainly generalizing essence is the most elegant solution. It's just that people complaining and demanding more, even after they've consumed literal months worth of content, is a bit ridiculous. Is it? Compare Hextech crafting to Dota/TF2 drops. I think it's far more ridiculous that champion shards/essences are essentially IP 2.0
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Mar 30, 2016 18:41
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Firebert posted:Is it? Compare Hextech crafting to Dota/TF2 drops. I think it's far more ridiculous that champion shards/essences are essentially IP 2.0 Right, but in dota and tf2 you start with every character unlocked, so skins and aesthetic items are reasonable things to drop. Sure, if riot wanted to unlock all champions/runes for all players right now, then hextech crafting is certainly a joke. But with the current game state I'm fine with crafting because it accelerates my champ pool expansion E. Im not saying riots champ unlock system is right or wrong btw. I just don't play dota or tf2, so given how league works crafting is reasonable imo
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Mar 30, 2016 18:51
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Lady Naga posted:It has nothing to do with right or wrong, if your response to someone is saying "hey this allows me to get champions faster than grinding IP all day, that's pretty awesome" is "yeah but what about me? I own all of them anyway!" it kind of comes off tone-deaf. if you genuinely think Riot introduced hextech crafting to entice new players to the biggest game in the world that is over half a decade old then you're being brain dead
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Mar 30, 2016 18:58
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seizure later posted:if you genuinely think Riot introduced hextech crafting to entice new players to the biggest game in the world that is over half a decade old then you're being brain dead Good thing I didn't think that, then.
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Mar 30, 2016 18:58
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Lady Naga posted:It has nothing to do with right or wrong, if your response to someone is saying "hey this allows me to get champions faster than grinding IP all day, that's pretty awesome" is "yeah but what about me? I own all of them anyway!" it kind of comes off tone-deaf. Getting champ shards when you own all champs with 25K IP is a design flaw though
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Mar 30, 2016 19:06
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SlyFrog posted:Ok, here's more. Please bear in mind, I'm not arguing with you, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind things, so I can implement intelligently. I barely talk in chat in Bronze. The most I'll do is ping somewhere and say the champ's name. So in your example a flag ping and "Quinn?" Is probably the most I'll do. You're right that people in bronze (and silver and gold and plat) will tilt at the slightest provocation. Pinging also really helps for dragon. A simple "omw" ping followed by a flag should be enough. If they still don't come assume they're an idiot. I have the same problem you do where I prioritize buffs a little too much. The important thing is to look at the map. Do you have vision of their team? Is your blue buff somewhat protected by wards/towers/teammates? Then you don't need to take it ASAP. Leave it for your mid laner later. Drop a ward on it if you have one and maybe see if you can get an easy kill on their jungler when he comes looking to counter-jungle while you're farming lanes. Take all this with a grain of salt because I'm a moron that can barely win games in bronze 1.
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Mar 30, 2016 19:06
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Lady Naga posted:It has nothing to do with right or wrong, if your response to someone is saying "hey this allows me to get champions faster than grinding IP all day, that's pretty awesome" is "yeah but what about me? I own all of them anyway!" it kind of comes off tone-deaf. Because if it is a 'catch-up' mechanic then it is a very bad one because it requires you to get S-ranks on champions and you can only get it on champion/season and 4 champions a month which means that even if you are hitting 4 S-ranks a month (which is not something a lot of casual players are going to do) you're still getting maybe one champion/month. It is worse as a catch-up mechanic than just playing the game for IP. Like here is the best possible outcome: You get 3 champion shards in your 4 S-rank chest and get enough gets to open all three chests. In doing so you get 1 random champion of unclear value for free. That requires S-ranking 4 games with 4 different champions while also getting 9 key shards in the court of a month. Alternately you do first win every day for 150 IP which is 1050 a week before any other actual IP earnings or 4,200 a month which is most of the way to a brand new champion and all of the way to cheaper champions. (Because you're not just getting 150 you're getting at least your IP for the game too.) However unlike chests you're not getting a random champion so you're not grinding 3 chests/9 shards for frigging Ashe or whatever. It is a bad mechanic for 'catch-up.'You're probably looking at 1-2 champions a season free which is nice but not nice enough to make chests basically worthless for end-game players. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Mar 30, 2016 |
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Mar 30, 2016 19:14
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Lady Naga posted:It has nothing to do with right or wrong, if your response to someone is saying "hey this allows me to get champions faster than grinding IP all day, that's pretty awesome" is "yeah but what about me? I own all of them anyway!" it kind of comes off tone-deaf. Why?
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Mar 30, 2016 19:15
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Mr. Humalong posted:I barely talk in chat in Bronze. The most I'll do is ping somewhere and say the champ's name. I don't remember who said it, but someone in this thread said "the only thing you should be communicating in ranked is 1. pings and 2.' we got this' or something to that effect." I think that is very good advice.
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Mar 30, 2016 19:16
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you're supposed to use your ip to buy runes to play full health regen soraka
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Mar 30, 2016 19:21
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I don't get why some people are portraying crafting as an alternative to IP. Increasing effective IP gain disproportionately helps those with less IP, so since total IP for passable pool + runes hasn't changed much it's not exactly going to be bad for anyone.
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Mar 30, 2016 19:29
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FYGM
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Mar 30, 2016 19:30
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ImpAtom posted:Because if it is a 'catch-up' mechanic then it is a very bad one because it requires you to get S-ranks on champions and you can only get it on champion/season and 4 champions a month which means that even if you are hitting 4 S-ranks a month (which is not something a lot of casual players are going to do) you're still getting maybe one champion/month. It is worse as a catch-up mechanic than just playing the game for IP. 1-2 champs a season free is literally extra free IP that you would have had to spend otherwise.
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Mar 30, 2016 19:31
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Lady Naga posted:1-2 champs a season free is literally extra free IP that you would have had to spend otherwise. It is 'free IP" in that it gets you champs of unclear value which means it can be worth anywhere from 6300 to like 450. That's better than nothing but renders the chests increasingly lovely the more you play the game while the chests themselves are skill-locked meaning that the majority of people who get them are already people who've played for a while. If the chests were just random drops it might be a different story. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Mar 30, 2016 |
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Mar 30, 2016 19:35
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Is there a way to tell people in ranked they really should pick at least one champ with more than 1k hp between the four of them because it's a tank meta and one doesn't cut it without making everyone poo poo themselves? I've never found a way to do it without people getting mad.
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Mar 30, 2016 19:37
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ImpAtom posted:It is 'free IP" in that it gets you champs of unclear value which means it can be worth anywhere from 6300 to like 450. That's better than nothing but renders the chests increasingly lovely the more you play the game while the chests themselves are skill-locked meaning that the majority of people who get them are already people who've played for a while. The discussion was never about whether or not it was a super great catch up mechanic or not, it's irrelevant. The problem is the "haves" bitching endlessly the moment the "have nots" finally get something of value that the new mechanic isn't pandering to them. Also it seems like some people are taking "catch up mechanic" to mean "level 1 newbie is set on the fast track to having the same content as the 4-year veterans" when really all it means is "your farm is accelerated in some fashion"
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Mar 30, 2016 19:39
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Stack ip gently caress bitches. Yolo
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Mar 30, 2016 19:41
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It's a video game, not Das Kapital
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Mar 30, 2016 19:41
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Firebert posted:It's a video game, not Das Kapital If you can think of a better way to concisely say "person who is level 30 and has multiple rune pages, all runes and most/all champions" (besides "basement-dweller") I'd like to hear it.
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Mar 30, 2016 19:43
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Lady Naga posted:The discussion was never about whether or not it was a super great catch up mechanic or not, it's irrelevant. The problem is the "haves" bitching endlessly the moment the "have nots" finally get something of value that the new mechanic isn't pandering to them. This is a really stupid comment. It doesn't need to be 'haves' or 'have nots' because there are several different suggestions about how it can satisfy both in this thread alone. Like you're complaining about people going "gently caress you, got mine" when that is literally exactly what you're doing and there is no reason for it.
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Mar 30, 2016 19:44
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Primetime posted:I agree that chromas should be an unlock. Whether champion mastery or some other system. I get riot just loses out on money that way, but certainly painting fizz yellow is not a taxing project It's a new skin, we call it Pizz. Dr. Tim Whatley posted:Stack ip gently caress bitches. Yolo All that needs to be said really. This is an exhausting amount of conversation about the most pointless thing I've ever read about in the thread. It's not even a conversation about the system, it's a conversation about the degree in which the system does or doesn't reward people, how they feel about it (which is totally subjective) and is literally just going on forever. It's longing to make me know what Methanar is doing today in Canada.
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Mar 30, 2016 19:44
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ImpAtom posted:This is a really stupid comment. It doesn't need to be 'haves' or 'have nots' because there are several different suggestions about how it can satisfy both in this thread alone. It's an optics thing.
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Mar 30, 2016 19:45
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