|
e_angst posted:Uhm... You do realize that disliking completely unwarranted personal attacks on a candidate's wife is not nearly the same as supporting that candidate. I loving hate Ted Cruz, but if Donald Trump took bolt cutters and severed Cruz's index fingers mafia-style, I'd still condemn Trump for doing it. If we don't condemn lovely/unethical actions just because they are happening to a terrible person, we make it easier for those same lovely/unethical actions to eventually be used against all of us. Ted Cruz went to an event where a guy advocated death for gays and refused to disavow the guy even after being asked about it several times, the story was pretty much only reported on in the gay media. People ought to care more about stuff like that and other things that might be related to policy instead of Trump being mean and nasty. There has been way, way too much obsession over the behavior of the candidates to the point where policies are practically ignored. Ultimately how these guys behave is going to have pretty much zero bearing on my life whatsoever, we should be thinking about what they would do, and there's no doubt that by far the worst person in that regard is Cruz. I also disagree with the notion that there should be a veneer of politeness and respectability at all times in politics because we all know that's bullshit. I do think that the candidates need to focus more time talking about policy than insults but if they do say something vulgar who cares. What they say in public will never be half as bad as what they do in private. MaxxBot has issued a correction as of 07:07 on Mar 26, 2016 |
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 07:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 04:49 |
|
|
MaxxBot posted:Ted Cruz went to an event where a guy advocated death for gays and refused to disavow the guy even after being asked about it several times, the story was pretty much only reported on in the gay media. People ought to care more about stuff like that and other things that might be related to policy instead of Trump being mean and nasty. There has been way, way too much obsession over the behavior of the candidates to the point where policies are practically ignored. Ultimately how these guys behave is going to have pretty much zero bearing on my life whatsoever, we should be thinking about what they would do, and there's no doubt that by far the worst person in that regard is Cruz. It's between that and having to have "ethics" lessons from a man that has run one of the world dirtier campaigns in recent memory. Ted has never disavowed a single one of these criticisms. He simply screeches about how it's the fault of the "liberal media", and then turns it back on the person asking the questions. If he had simply done that in regards to any number of these things we're talking about? Then yeah we're not having this conversation and I'm saying trump's words/tweets deserve swift condemnation. But none of what Cruz has done be it going on stage with a person that flat out calls for geniocide of LGBT individuals or running dirty campaign tricks in Iowa or SC have been treated in the same manner that any of Trump's words have. Which is..for the lack of a better word? Bullshit. I mean to see Bill Maher rock a hat that says "BETTER TED THAN DEAD" tonight screams to me that there's a lot of progressives (note: Not anyone in this thread. People that don't get their news from anywhere else but Cable and print media) who have no clue how bad of a man Ted Cruz is. FuzzySkinner has issued a correction as of 07:29 on Mar 26, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 07:26
|
|
|
There's also the fact that while Trump and Cruz would probably lose to Hillary either way the Trump nomination has more potential to hurt down ticket races and cause more lasting damage to the party. The GOPe hates Cruz but they can at least fake unity and pretend everything is OK and try to maintain their congressional majorities. With Trump you'd see a lot more infighting and division.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 07:49
|
|
|
Jewel Repetition posted:She's still a leftist and so am I. Just within reason. Yeah, so I am but 
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 07:52
|
|
|
MaxxBot posted:There's also the fact that while Trump and Cruz would probably lose to Hillary either way the Trump nomination has more potential to hurt down ticket races and cause more lasting damage to the party. The GOPe hates Cruz but they can at least fake unity and pretend everything is OK and try to maintain their congressional majorities. With Trump you'd see a lot more infighting and division. Speaking as a former republican? This party needs to die and needs to break up. There's a lot of people that have been completely driven to the left as the result of them pandering to fundies and other racist nutjobs. (to be fair? I've come to really like a lot of what's on the left in terms of ideology). Let the Ted Cruz's of the world form their own "Tea Party". Let them become increasingly irrelevant and be done with it. If Trump can do that and perhaps lead to the GOP morphing into something different? I'd be all for it. I think he, like Bernie Sanders have honestly stumbled upon something in terms of their parties futures. (By this I mean the GOP having protectionist trade policies, not so much the whole racist angle, etc)
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 08:20
|
|
|
e_angst posted:Uhm... You do realize that disliking completely unwarranted personal attacks on a candidate's wife is not nearly the same as supporting that candidate. I loving hate Ted Cruz, but if Donald Trump took bolt cutters and severed Cruz's index fingers mafia-style, I'd still condemn Trump for doing it. If we don't condemn lovely/unethical actions just because they are happening to a terrible person, we make it easier for those same lovely/unethical actions to eventually be used against all of us. After Nancy Regan's death, Cruz's people went on television to talk about how Trump's wife is a skank. This was March 8. Before Utah primaries, one of Cruz's superpacs posted GQ spread pics, again calling her a slut, on the 22nd. Trump tweeted a threat to reciprocate. Cruz played dumb. Trump retweeted an image macro that was like "no contest on these wives lamo." Cruz sniveled. That's the extend of "unwarranted attacks on a candidate's wife" that actually happened in the real world that exists. Everything else is your idiot brain making poo poo up because you hate the guy, just like you've been told to. What a good boy you are!
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 10:12
|
|
|
Ork of Fiction posted:Everything else is your idiot brain making poo poo up because you hate the guy, just like you've been told to. What a good boy you are! I agree with most of what you said but this makes you look like a total shithead.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 22:56
|
|
|
FuzzySkinner posted:It's between that and having to have "ethics" lessons from a man that has run one of the world dirtier campaigns in recent memory. Probably because trump may have ok chance at winning, while cruz doesn't. all his awful poo poo towards gays would be hammered in the general and he wouldnt be able to back off from it. Liberals would rather see someone like cruz win the nom because hilary or sanders can beat him much easer then trump. that would explain why mahre would say poo poo like that. other people probaly just dont follow politics and think because cruz is soft spoken it means he is less of nut then trump.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 23:53
|
|
|
Despite ultimately acting as a tool of oppression, the rise of identity politics has not been a manufactured conspiracy such as right-Libertarianism or the Tea Party, but rather has been allowed to flourish naturally with no systemic opposition or support precisely because it is meaningless in terms of true emancipation as it does not threaten the actual structures of power in the West. People supporting identity politics are generally well meaning, but not particularly intelligent.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 00:08
|
|
|
I enjoy it when people argue about which Republican is the most complete mega-shitler. It's a pretty good sign the Democrats are going to win regardless of what happens.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 00:30
|
|
|
Wheeee posted:Despite ultimately acting as a tool of oppression, the rise of identity politics has not been a manufactured conspiracy such as right-Libertarianism or the Tea Party, but rather has been allowed to flourish naturally with no systemic opposition or support precisely because it is meaningless in terms of true emancipation as it does not threaten the actual structures of power in the West. People supporting identity politics are generally well meaning, but not particularly intelligent. this, they arnt bad people, they are just stupid and treat the stuff like an unquestioning religion. the right only see it as conspiracy/plot because thats probaly how they view their own poo poo. crabcakes66 posted:I enjoy it when people argue about which Republican is the most complete mega-shitler. this. all the republican/moderate conservatives i know, dont like either trump or cruz. most have said they wont vote.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 00:45
|
|
|
Dapper_Swindler posted:this. all the republican/moderate conservatives i know, dont like either trump or cruz. most have said they wont vote. It's very divided between those two groups of people. You have the "NEVER TRUMP" gang of idiots who are wanting the purest form of conservatism possible. Then you have people like my brother who pledged his vote for Trump in the primary, and swears he'll vote Hillary/Bernie if someone other than Trump is the nominee. He HATES Cruz (likely due to his brother bitching about him all the time).
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 00:53
|
|
|
I hate Cruz because I've seen his face a non zero number of times Also his views are poo poo
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 03:29
|
|
TEAYCHES posted:I believe that the planet is dying and that nothing short of Full International Communism will be sufficient in preventing mass death and suffering. This, except the damage is done, communism can't save poo poo, and, since Pandora can't be shoved back into her box, we should all enjoy the meaningless political theater of Trump while the Earth spirals into the sun
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 04:21
|
|
|
i genuinely think that as hosed as things are we're still ultimately on a good long-term trajectory and things will continue to improve. i usually don't say this because it's a great way for someone to link you to some terrible atrocity or thing getting worse in the short term and yelling at you and calling you privileged, which i absolutely am. despite everyone across the political spectrum hyperventilating 24/7 about how irrevocably hosed everything is i think it's generally the opposite.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 04:24
|
|
|
Well it is important to have some perspective, even though we have a shitton of problems here in the US it seems like almost every other part of the world at this moment has even more.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 04:48
|
|
|
Wheeee posted:Despite ultimately acting as a tool of oppression, the rise of identity politics has not been a manufactured conspiracy such as right-Libertarianism or the Tea Party, but rather has been allowed to flourish naturally with no systemic opposition or support precisely because it is meaningless in terms of true emancipation as it does not threaten the actual structures of power in the West. People supporting identity politics are generally well meaning, but not particularly intelligent. I think there's a huge divide between supporters of identity politics. A lot of establishment types and elites see a world more or less as it is now but with a more representative ruling class. They'll be happy if half of the CEOs, doctors, wall street types, etc. are women, and minorities are appropriately represented. Then there's the other half who support it for emancipatory reasons. They see it as the first battle in a quest towards a more equal society, and generally want to "solve" the problems of minorities, women, homosexuals, before tackling capitalism/extractivism or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2016 05:07
|
|
|
Just Offscreen posted:I agree with most of what you said but this makes you look like a total shithead. It is my True and Honest Political Opinion that people generally decide what they want to believe and then look for evidence to fit those beliefs. Also, I am a shithead.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 13:27
|
|
|
TEAYCHES posted:I believe that the planet is dying and that nothing short of Full International Communism will be sufficient in preventing mass death and suffering. I think the fact that we're a full generation removed from the collapse of the Soviet Union means that there are a lot of young, earnest people who don't understand how communist governments are uniquely and especially prone to becoming totalitarian; and that while market economies in democracies have significant flaws, they provide a significantly better quality of life for all their citizens (even the poor). Combine this with the trolls doing a left-wing version of /pol/ by half-joking/trolling about Full Communism Now and we're basically going to have to re-learn some very difficult lessons over the next decade or so. When I see a friend on Facebook posting "Viva Maduro" or people in D&D speculating about how Stalin probably wasn't that bad, it bodes very ill for the future.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 19:12
|
|
|
e_angst posted:I think the fact that we're a full generation removed from the collapse of the Soviet Union means that there are a lot of young, earnest people who don't understand how communist governments are uniquely and especially prone to becoming totalitarian; and that while market economies in democracies have significant flaws, they provide a significantly better quality of life for all their citizens (even the poor). Combine this with the trolls doing a left-wing version of /pol/ by half-joking/trolling about Full Communism Now and we're basically going to have to re-learn some very difficult lessons over the next decade or so. You have a facile understanding of the issues which you are attempting to discuss and, driven by fear of past failures which you are incapable of understanding in their historical context, you embrace the very systems which are allowing our species to continually accelerate the timeline for our extinction.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 20:39
|
|
|
Homeless Friend posted:Clinton's cold bloodedness owns imo cold-blooded means you restrain your emotions or feelings she is actively joyful that she caused a man to be publically sodomized with a knife then murdered extralegally
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 01:47
|
|
|
The Saurus posted:cold-blooded means you restrain your emotions or feelings Hillary doesn't see things this way. Shifting power and American influence are her metrics of success. I forget where I heard it but someone said "Hillary is so ingrained in the system that she doesn't recognize the inherent problems anymore"
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 02:48
|
|
|
Toadvine posted:Hillary doesn't see things this way. Shifting power and American influence are her metrics of success. I forget where I heard it but someone said "Hillary is so ingrained in the system that she doesn't recognize the inherent problems anymore" http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-young-people-are-right-about-hillary-clinton-20160325 quote:Young people don't see the Sanders-Clinton race as a choice between idealism and incremental progress. The choice they see is between an honest politician, and one who is so profoundly a part of the problem that she can't even see it anymore.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 03:08
|
|
|
yea it was Matt Taibbi.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 03:53
|
|
|
Trump supporters are racist, but for a large portion of them it's driven by economic frustration. It's almost certainly not a majority. It's not a coherent position but it's one rooted in the history the white working class believe they experienced. I think racism and economic matters are intertwined for older members of the white working class, especially in the rust belt, in a manner that's hard for me to articulate. I'll try if anyone really wants me too. It just seems dumb for the same people who claim that economic factors are a cause of religious terrorism to demand that Trump supporters present economic arguments in order for economics be a cause for his popularity. On the other side of the spectrum I think that any Left wing movement in America is largely going to be rooted in the currently existing structures of the Democratic party, unions, and even those small socialist groups with 5 people in a city. The Sanders campaign wouldn't be nearly as popular as an independent run. His campaign has received heavy support from National Nurses United and the Working Families Party, which as far as I understand is essentially the left-wing of the New York Dems. The Chicago Teachers Union has fought the democratic city establishment and helped spur a national revival in militant teachers unions, and their leadership has been influenced by socialist groups. This nascent movement may die or drastically change, but it's emerging from what is already there.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 04:35
|
|
|
-If you must dislike Trump then you must dislike all of the Americans who are voting for him. -Folks would rather mock/write off Trump and his supporters as racist rednecks than consider what happened in their lives to make his message appealing. Controversial opinions, I know, but it irks me to hear so many people decrying Trumps xenophobia as if he were the progenitor of such a concept.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 16:37
|
|
|
The idea of giving illegal immigrants amnesty when they tend to skew socially conservative (in my experience) AND have very few marketable skills sounds really loving stupid and regressive to our country, but deporting them is also the worst idea.
Pillowpants has issued a correction as of 17:00 on Mar 30, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 16:57
|
|
Toadvine posted:-If you must dislike Trump then you must dislike all of the Americans who are voting for him. Dude... no. People support candidates for about a billion different reasons, and there are many Trump supporters who are so up to their eyeballs in the Kool-Aid that they legitimately believe that he actually will be the "best for Hispanics" and "the best for Blacks, the blacks love me, ect." My family disliked Obama, but they still liked me even though I supported him (and vice-versa). having differences of political opinions with someone and still getting along with them is one of the most basic social skills.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2016 04:05
|
|
|
Trumps Baby Hands posted:Dude... no. People support candidates for about a billion different reasons, and there are many Trump supporters who are so up to their eyeballs in the Kool-Aid that they legitimately believe that he actually will be the "best for Hispanics" and "the best for Blacks, the blacks love me, ect." My family disliked Obama, but they still liked me even though I supported him (and vice-versa). having differences of political opinions with someone and still getting along with them is one of the most basic social skills. You're misinterpreting me, or being obtuse. Trumps message is not taking place in a vacuum, rather it's resonating with plenty of Americans. So if you're going to take aim at Trump for his beliefs you need to extend that criticism to his supporters. But that's not productive, hence the follow-up opinion I stated, which is absent from your post...
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2016 04:26
|
|
|
Trumps Baby Hands posted:having differences of political opinions with someone and still getting along with them is one of the most basic social skills. excuse me I read gawker.com and have learned that anyone not in perfect ideological lockstep with my correct opinions is literally the enemy and must be destroyed so take your wimpy moderation and shove it
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2016 06:53
|
|
|
Trumps Baby Hands posted:Dude... no. People support candidates for about a billion different reasons, and there are many Trump supporters who are so up to their eyeballs in the Kool-Aid that they legitimately believe that he actually will be the "best for Hispanics" and "the best for Blacks, the blacks love me, ect." My family disliked Obama, but they still liked me even though I supported him (and vice-versa). having differences of political opinions with someone and still getting along with them is one of the most basic social skills. Tru.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2016 08:22
|
|
|
Trumps Baby Hands posted:Dude... no. People support candidates for about a billion different reasons, and there are many Trump supporters who are so up to their eyeballs in the Kool-Aid that they legitimately believe that he actually will be the "best for Hispanics" and "the best for Blacks, the blacks love me, ect." My family disliked Obama, but they still liked me even though I supported him (and vice-versa). having differences of political opinions with someone and still getting along with them is one of the most basic social skills. I've met a lot of good conservatives out there who kind of scoffed at me when I tweeted that Bernie Sanders had said, yet were nothing but respectful to me personally. The feeling was very mutual. There's a difference between someone who's a good person but is just wired different (naive in some regards) and someone who's just an ideological rear end like a Matt Walsh or a Steven Crowder. (The same is true on the left). The problem with the two party system is far too often we're quarantined into various groups via our own favorite pet issues.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2016 08:30
|
|
|
The Whole Internet posted:hillary clinton is the face of corruption and career opportunism at the expense of her constituents. there will be no major structural reforms of our economy under her presidency and she'll put her wall street buddies in cushy cabinet positions and probably do something bad in the middle east. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2016 11:36
|
|
|
unironically thanking God I'm a liberal since it would suck to be a conservative in an era where a left-leaning supreme court has asserted itself as the most powerful branch of government, to the point where Presidents are only important in that they get to decide the political genetic make-up of the bench whenever one of the justices gets smothered on a Satanic hunting trip or whatever happened there
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 02:01
|
|
|
Trumps Baby Hands posted:unironically thanking God I'm a liberal since it would suck to be a conservative in an era where a left-leaning supreme court has asserted itself as the most powerful branch of government, to the point where Presidents are only important in that they get to decide the political genetic make-up of the bench whenever one of the justices gets smothered on a Satanic hunting trip or whatever happened there It's ok, Presidents also get near unlimited control of our new flying death robots to keep them entertained.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 05:41
|
|
|
Toadvine posted:-If you must dislike Trump then you must dislike all of the Americans who are voting for him. No matter what has happened to you, no matter what tragedies you have experienced in your life. If you are ignorant enough, and lack empathy to the degree where you blame an entire race for your problems, and actively hate them because of that blame, then you are a terrible person, and deserve no sympathy. I know those are controversial opinions, but rather than actually thinking and feeling basic human emotions, Trump supporters have resorted to hate as an outlet for their frustration. It is not noble in any way. It is not forgivable in any way. Trump didn't start it, yea, but he provided an outlet for these people. Enabling is accomplice.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2016 08:09
|
|
|
Phi230 posted:No matter what has happened to you, no matter what tragedies you have experienced in your life. hate is a pretty basic human emotion you're stupid as hell and don't understand human psychology at all, which has made you an unwitting retard zealot. good job
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2016 08:12
|
|
|
Wheeee posted:hate is a pretty basic human emotion Except hate is not socially acceptable, morally good, and is generally an immature thing to feel anyway. There's a reason why the saying goes "blinded by hate"
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2016 08:16
|
|
|
richard nixon was basically the only halfway decent republican president and basically if it weren't for watergate aka probably nothing worse than literally every other president has done and covered up better, he'd easily have been the big conservative hero of forever, instead of that complete dork reagan like seriously what the christ did reagan do, can we just ask everyone in america what made reagan so great
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2016 08:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 04:49 |
|
|
Gyra_Solune posted:richard nixon was basically the only halfway decent republican president and basically if it weren't for watergate aka probably nothing worse than literally every other president has done and covered up better, he'd easily have been the big conservative hero of forever, instead of that complete dork reagan He raised taxes and gave illegal immigrants amnesty and banned assault weapons oh....
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2016 09:14
|
|