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N. Senada posted:The women are misled by media and evil doctors. They should feel shame and be judged harshly but who we really need to get at is the doctors. This is why they're earnest when calling women victims. That'll be the way they frame it as they also support laws to imprison women who have miscarriages because maybe they actually wanted to murder the fetus. Yet they say the same things about drug addicts while simultaneously supporting incredibly harsh and draconian punishments for them. There's really no consistency to be found here.
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Mar 31, 2016 02:34
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It's consistent when you realize that proper childrearing involves beating them into submission.
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Mar 31, 2016 02:46
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beatlegs posted:What's scarier is they seem pretty jolly about it. "gently caress the Mexicans! Woo hoo! It's super easy to think this way when you've so thoroughly dehumanized the people you're thinking about in your head that they're just a faceless mass of evil. These are people whose brains never matured to a point where black and white morality stories are literally the only way they know to view the world on a wide scale.
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Mar 31, 2016 03:02
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" "Nuke the Arabs, haha! 
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Yes, I remember all those sensible moderate Republicans pleading for sanity when their leaders were shouting about birth certificates and death panels and palling around with terrorists 7 years ago. Not.
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Mar 31, 2016 03:03
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Aesop Poprock posted:It's super easy to think this way when you've so thoroughly dehumanized the people you're thinking about in your head that they're just a faceless mass of evil. I do recognize them as human beings, just very terrible ones.
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Mar 31, 2016 03:13
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I didn't see Matt Walsh's Facebook post on the last two pages. Someone on my feed thought this was actual logic.""Matt Walsh's bullshit" posted:A quick note about the latest Trumproversy (Trump-related controversy) because many readers have asked me about it.
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Mar 31, 2016 03:52
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RC and Moon Pie posted:I didn't see Matt Walsh's Facebook post on the last two pages. Someone on my feed thought this was actual logic. He's so close. So very, very close. He can see with remarkable clarity many of the problems with Trump and yet almost aggressively refuses to accept that those problems did not just spring into being whole-cloth purely with Trump's presence alone. Nope, the introspection train jumps the logically dictated, one-way track and derails into Crazytown with "Liberal media" and "Trump followers". Just can't get that one last brain cell to fire off a spark and make the connection that Trump's followers are, in fact, THE REPUBLICAN BASE. The tried and true knee-jerk, Pavlovian response of "It's da libuhrals fault!" just doesn't work anymore when it's your own base you fool. If Trump is "a bumbling, ridiculous con artist who says whatever he thinks a conservative might say", and conservatives are voting in amazing numbers to support that message, then the phone call is coming from inside the house.
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Mar 31, 2016 04:20
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I'm pretty sure Matt Walsh would go on a shooting rampage or a suicide bombing before admitting he was wrong on anything. He's a sad, hateful, spiteful little man. I don't think I've ever seen him express happiness over anything unless it involved pain for someone else.
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Mar 31, 2016 04:24
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SumYungGui posted:He's so close. So very, very close. He can see with remarkable clarity many of the problems with Trump and yet almost aggressively refuses to accept that those problems did not just spring into being whole-cloth purely with Trump's presence alone. Nope, the introspection train jumps the logically dictated, one-way track and derails into Crazytown with "Liberal media" and "Trump followers". Just can't get that one last brain cell to fire off a spark and make the connection that Trump's followers are, in fact, THE REPUBLICAN BASE. Trump seems to do that to some right wingers. They come so very close to self-awareness, but always pull back at the point where they'd have to admit fault.
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Mar 31, 2016 04:34
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"Trump's followers are being bamboozled by a fake Republican caricature" is the big new establishment argument. He's a liberal imitating a conservative. Only problem is his views are nearly identical to those of mainstream Republicans. He just expresses them in an honest way.
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Mar 31, 2016 04:37
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Out of curiosity, are there any other illegal services that you can seek out and not potentially be punished for? Or would abortion be the exception?
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Mar 31, 2016 04:42
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Is he really an imitation when he perfectly replaces and outperforms the so-called "real" conservative? If it quacks racism like a duck, if it throws disorder like a duck and if it doesn't care about anything but itself like a duck, its a republican duck.
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Mar 31, 2016 04:45
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"Trump is just saying the horrible things liberals think a conservative would say, but conservatives would never want anything like that!" *Trump nearly runs the table on the most conservative states in the republic*
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Mar 31, 2016 04:50
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Crabtree posted:Is he really an imitation when he perfectly replaces and outperforms the so-called "real" conservative? If it quacks racism like a duck, if it throws disorder like a duck and if it doesn't care about anything but itself like a duck, its a republican duck. He does so without the qualities that kept them "respectable" over the years and let them peddle their terrible platform with a veneer of legitimacy. So he can't possibly be a "real" conservative because he makes them look bad by exposing what they really were underneath rather than the usual stuffed suit they want.
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Mar 31, 2016 04:52
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Big McHuge posted:Out of curiosity, are there any other illegal services that you can seek out and not potentially be punished for? Or would abortion be the exception? There are plenty of things that are illegal to sell but not illegal to buy. For example, you can go to jail for practicing medicine without a license but your patients will not.
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Mar 31, 2016 04:58
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"... we will not win the fight by talking about punishments for the women. " As many others have said, Trump is loving up their whole plan just by following their philosophy to its end point.
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Mar 31, 2016 05:23
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Geostomp posted:He does so without the qualities that kept them "respectable" over the years and let them peddle their terrible platform with a veneer of legitimacy. So he can't possibly be a "real" conservative because he makes them look bad by exposing what they really were underneath rather than the usual stuffed suit they want. Did those qualities matter until the Trump model came along and steam rolled them? Because we still apparently see the likes of Son of Mailman claim that he is the "nice one" between a zodiac killer and Trump, all the while the not trump secretly hate and support the designated enemies of conservative white men (LGBT, The Poor, etc.). The only key difference is that he doesn't speak in dog whistles. He says exactly what hate wants to hear in simpleton's English.
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Mar 31, 2016 05:35
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VitalSigns posted:There are plenty of things that are illegal to sell but not illegal to buy. However if it's "murder" that both parties are colluding to commit it's a different ballgame.
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Mar 31, 2016 05:39
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beatlegs posted:However if it's "murder" that both parties are colluding to commit it's a different ballgame. It'd certainly be possible to just make abortion an illegal service without defining it legally as murder (even if you call it that rhetorically) if you actually only wanted to jail abortion doctors and not patients. Of course, then the question is what happens to a woman who self-induces an abortion, sure you could conceivably write a law carefully enough to protect a woman in this situation, but of course the laws won't be carefully written at all, and women will be indicted on charges of attempted murder or aggravated assault.
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Mar 31, 2016 05:45
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Crabtree posted:Did those qualities matter until the Trump model came along and steam rolled them? Because we still apparently see the likes of Son of Mailman claim that he is the "nice one" between a zodiac killer and Trump, all the while the not trump secretly hate and support the designated enemies of conservative white men (LGBT, The Poor, etc.). The only key difference is that he doesn't speak in dog whistles. He says exactly what hate wants to hear in simpleton's English. I'm not entirely sure what all that means. Dog whistles are important. They allow you to fire up the base and those in the know without showing your hand to the rest of the country. If your base wants you to stick it to the blacks and gays you can say out loud that is what you promise to do. The rest of the country just won't elect you. That plausible deniability lets you distance yourself from the horrible stuff the base wants and claim anybody reading racism into what you said is the real racist. The people in your base know what you really meant and how your going to govern and no one in the media is going to call you out on it. Trump is playing the primary game super well because he throws back the curtain and tells the people who hate the mexicans/muslims/blacks exactly what the have wanted to hear from a politician. No filter or political code words needed, just plain old "gently caress those guys". But the primary is only round one and he is basically unelectable on a national stage. Sure that 30% loving loves him but when you alienate literally every group except racist white men you don't get to be president.
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Mar 31, 2016 05:46
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VitalSigns posted:It'd certainly be possible to just make abortion an illegal service without defining it legally as murder (even if you call it that rhetorically) if you actually only wanted to jail abortion doctors and not patients.
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Mar 31, 2016 05:53
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Oh yeah obviously they wouldn't. I'm well aware that the pro-life movement is not acting in good faith and they actually want The Handmaid's Tale. I was just answering a question about whether other illegal services are treated that way or if the way mainstream Republicans say they want abortion to be treated is somehow unique.
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Mar 31, 2016 06:03
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Aesop Poprock posted:It's super easy to think this way when you've so thoroughly dehumanized the people you're thinking about in your head that they're just a faceless mass of evil. These are people whose brains never matured to a point where black and white morality stories are literally the only way they know to view the world on a wide scale. I've always wondered what it would be like to actually believe this kind of stuff - to absorb only right wing media for information about the world, for years on end. And to grow up in a very religious church environment on top of that. I can't really wrap my head around it. Imagine being one of the many conservatives who believe that America is the greatest country in the history of the planet. Why is America so great? Because of conservatives and christian, conservative values obviously. Because of YOU and people like you. This, by extension, places you as one of the greatest human beings to have ever lived. You also believe that God, the all-powerful creator of the entire universe, has a direct role and interest in your everyday life. You believe that God, along with your dead grandmother or whoever, is on your side, watching over you and looking out for you on a day to day basis. You believe your dead grandmother or other guardian angels protect you from getting killed in a car crash or whatever (I've known people who actually believe that). Meanwhile, there are hordes of strange people who are enemies of your God. They're not like you at all. They look different and sound different and you can't understand them. The only time you hear about the other countries where they live is when something bad happens on the news. You feel like they are a bunch of savages who can't keep their countries together because they're not good and civilized and christian like you and they don't have God on their side looking out for them. These people are also immigrating into your country, the greatest country on earth, and they're gonna turn it into something like one of the lovely countries they came from. They're coming in here and taking up space and competing with you for jobs. There are too many of them and if only they went away then everything would be great again. There are countless people who believe this poo poo. There are countless people who don't like to read, never read books, don't know anything about the world, have little knowledge of history, art or science, and don't understand anything about the world outside their own personal bubble. These are the kinds of people who don't like movies with subtitles because "I don't like to read my movies." These are the kinds of people who look at horoscopes and actually believe them. There are surveys that suggest that 1 in 4 Americans believe the sun revolves around the earth. A lot of people still believe in witches even, and that the devil possesses people. And millions of people believe in ghosts. I can't really wrap my head around what it would be like to actually, literally believe this kind of stuff. The world might seem like a terrifying place, and these kinds of people would certainly be more susceptible to fascist and nationalist movements (like how Trump voters tend to be more poorly educated). Things become simple and easy to understand. Violence is simple and easy to understand. You just eliminate those people you don't like. You don't have to think too much. Child acting up? Just hit them. Problem solved! In a state of war, your neighbor, who you may not have even liked during peacetime, suddenly becomes your comrade. The complexity of the world fades away. You feel powerful and in control, like you have a purpose. Sometimes I wonder why genocides don't happen more often.
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Mar 31, 2016 06:15
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FuzzySkinner posted:Limbaugh is going on a rant about millenials. quote:RUSH: Have you seen this photo that this Millennial guy took with the hijacker on board that plane? You know, ever since the advent of social media, Facebook and Twitter -- well, not since the advent, but I guess pretty close to it, those of you who have listened regularly are well aware, I hope you remember, of my considered warnings about the potential problems that could erupt from this. Rush. You were a college dropout, a disc jockey and a promotions guy for the kansas city royals before you stumbled upon doing the right wing howard stern schtick. Your whole career has been "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!" Holy gently caress. Delusional as hell.
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Mar 31, 2016 08:37
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Kenzie posted:I've always wondered what it would be like to actually believe this kind of stuff - to absorb only right wing media for information about the world, for years on end. And to grow up in a very religious church environment on top of that. I can't really wrap my head around it. It's not at all hard to understand their thought process, it's just falling into childish simplicity. The real question is how someone goes through their entire lives rejecting everything that might imply more complexity to the world to the point that they cannot imagine that they could possibly be wrong. I guess that's why some of the worst gravitate towards dogma: it offers them ultimate security in an authority that agrees with them completely so they can keep on rejecting any dissent, but now as heresey rather than disagreement.
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Mar 31, 2016 13:02
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FuzzySkinner posted:Rush. Talent on loan from... God?
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Mar 31, 2016 13:07
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I decided to go to Pro-life site, Life Site News, to see how commenters feel about what Trump said Good news Trump, they agree quote:If the life of preborn/unborn babies are to be valued EQUALLY with born babies, then why would the punishment differ? Would not doing so be a tacit admission that the preborn are LESS VALUABLE? And does that not undercut the entire pro-life argument? quote:Glad to see some common sense and decency in the combox. This article along with nearly every other well known pro life voice is WRONG. Women who kill their children deserve some sort of punishment under our laws, even if they are also victims. quote:I am pro-life and have been active in the movement for three years. Logic and reason require that EVERYONE participating in an abortion should be prosecuted. quote:Why is punishment for killing a child not a logical step? If someone kills me I hope he or she is punished. Crimes against humanity deserve punishment. Perhaps the pro-live movemt needs to get its head on straight and call a spade a spade. quote:
quote:Whatever the amount someone gets for putting a hit out on a child would be a adequate punishment. quote:America will NEVER criminalize abortion! Women and abortionists will pay for their crimes directly to God in the afterlife!
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Mar 31, 2016 15:13
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Of course they do, what Trump said(and in general just about everything he says) is the logical conclusion of the Policies the Right wants to implement. If you make Abortions illegal then yes, having an abortion would be something that can be punished by the law.
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Mar 31, 2016 15:22
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Kenzie posted:I've always wondered what it would be like to actually believe this kind of stuff - to absorb only right wing media for information about the world, for years on end. And to grow up in a very religious church environment on top of that. I can't really wrap my head around it. As someone who lived it, then left it, it's less different than you might think. Those People are not really something you have to live with; they're over There. The rhetoric is almost like discussing what a quarterback should have done that last game; it'd be great if the world listened and obeyed and showed you right, but typically it just doesn't happen. You get your reward in the next life, anyway, so keep playing out the charade in this one. Leaving this bubble is weird as heck, though. Until they adjust, people you were around think of you like... you've just read the Necronomicon and are spreading the good word of Nyarlathotep. It's weird and alien and unbelievable to them but to you this new sanity makes sense.
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Mar 31, 2016 15:23
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Dexo posted:Of course they do, what Trump said(and in general just about everything he says) is the logical conclusion of the Policies the Right wants to implement. ...as premeditated murder. This would likely include abortifacient drugs, which would undoubtedly be outlawed. Welcome to the state of arbitrary religious opinion and compulsory subservience to the will of a God you likely don't even recognize even if you do identify as Christian.
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Mar 31, 2016 15:29
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The idea of Republicans disagreeing with Trump's comments is absolutely absurd and it's disgraceful we are letting them try and hide the fact that they are as monstrous as he is. We are currently prosecuting women who had miscarriages; this isn't a theoretical situation, it's the current reality we can see with our own eyes. Do we honestly have to pretend that the end game isn't making abortion illegal nationwide and then punishing women that take extreme measures since it's impolite to point it out???
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Mar 31, 2016 15:32
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^^ poo poo. I had heard of other nations that have made abortion illegal that have prosecuted women having miscarriages, because people thought they were having an abortion. Is that really happening here? I remember that video of when someone went to a pro-life rally, and asked the people there "Okay, so you want to make abortion illegal, meaning that someone should be punished if they get one. What should the punishment be?" and there was a lot of hand-wringing and essentially everyone said "I'll pray for the mother!" because no one has logically thought what the next step would be after making it illegal.
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Mar 31, 2016 15:46
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Radish posted:The idea of Republicans disagreeing with Trump's comments is absolutely absurd and it's disgraceful we are letting them try and hide the fact that they are as monstrous as he is. We are currently prosecuting women who had miscarriages; this isn't a theoretical situation, it's the current reality we can see with our own eyes. Do we honestly have to pretend that the end game isn't making abortion illegal nationwide and then punishing women that take extreme measures since it's impolite to point it out??? Welcome to the last seven years. Republicans can say or do whatever they want and still get treated as a respectable party. Nobody wants to come off as extremist for denouncing them, no matter how irrational or self-contradictory they get. Nobody wants to admit that one of America's political parties has gone completely off the deep end and screwed our whole system over. seiferguy posted:^^ poo poo. I had heard of other nations that have made abortion illegal that have prosecuted women having miscarriages, because people thought they were having an abortion. Is that really happening here? That seems to be the case with so many of these moral panics. People rant and rage about how sinful society is, but never stop to think for a second on exactly what "fixing it" would mean.
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Mar 31, 2016 15:48
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Pretty much. I think your average pro-life person thinks that making it illegal will just stop it from happening entirely (since there is no access) and hasn't thought about what it would be like if it was actually a crime. Politicians however know exactly what this will result in and push it which is why their distancing from Trump's comments are so loathsome.Geostomp posted:Welcome to the last seven years. Republicans can say or do whatever they want and still get treated as a respectable party. Nobody wants to come off as extremist for denouncing them, no matter how irrational or self-contradictory they get. Nobody wants to admit that one of America's political parties has gone completely off the deep end and screwed our whole system over. I'm darkly curious how far it can go since we are at the point where torture is a great tool for protection, beating up not violent protesters is virtuous, rampant xenophobia is being debated Seriously, and attacks on women are being justified. Will it actually take one going full Nazi or is that even not enough to get Serious people to think maybe this is a problem. You see comedians like Bee and Oliver talking about it but your average news outlet is still too terrified (or actively complicit) to point out that things are getting out of control. It takes a large voice to make a difference and a few isolated people speaking the truth to an audience that already understands isn't enough. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Mar 31, 2016 |
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Mar 31, 2016 15:49
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Matt Walsh posted:he's a hollow-skulled nincompoop who doesn't know anything, believe anything, or care about anything other than his own pomp and publicity. Matt Walsh posted:But it's especially bad news when abortion comes up around him, because he's a pro-abortion Planned Parenthood apologist vaguely pretending to be pro-life, and his random, semi-coherent pronouncements on the issue NPR had some anti-abortion woman on this morning who was trying to frame abortion as the ultimate anti-feminist act. If it was illegal, they couldn't be forced to do it by evil men 
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Mar 31, 2016 15:51
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Geostomp posted:Welcome to the last seven years. Republicans can say or do whatever they want and still get treated as a respectable party. Nobody wants to come off as extremist for denouncing them, no matter how irrational or self-contradictory they get. Nobody wants to admit that one of America's political parties has gone completely off the deep end and screwed our whole system over. Obama has literally done this, like in the not too distant past either. It turns out "calling out" a political party actually does jack poo poo, no matter how much you want your fantasy of them crumbling into goo might be.
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Mar 31, 2016 15:53
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seiferguy posted:^^ poo poo. I had heard of other nations that have made abortion illegal that have prosecuted women having miscarriages, because people thought they were having an abortion. Is that really happening here? http://www.democracynow.org/2015/4/2/20_years_in_prison_for_miscarrying (April 2nd, 2015) Strangely, I can't predict the result of this. I feel like my better side would be gravely underestimating the number of people who would agree or incline to agree with such an extreme position. It makes some degree of sense, when you think about it. The right wing has been resolutely defeated on the terms of Affordable Care and Gay Marriage. They've lost so much ground on a lot of culture war issues that they're hammering hard on the ones they still have left with any degree of support. Problem is, for them, how hard is too hard?
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Mar 31, 2016 16:03
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CNN had a "story" in the crawl yesterday that I'm sure will be turning up in this thread soon: "Obamacare costs up due to influx of high-cost patients, including those with AIDS, Hep C, Diabetes, and Depression" Hmm, wonder why they picked those particular diseases. Of course the costs on treating those are expensive - everything is expensive, but those diseases are likely to be seen by certain people as "punitive" or "lifestyle" diseases. Forgetting the fact that these people are now actually getting real life help for their problems, I'm sure the spin will be negative about Obamacare from the Right (surprise!)
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Mar 31, 2016 16:04
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It's why publicly they are stressing shutting down clinics is about safety and they are not making it technically illegal. It's both to get around Roe vs Wade but also so that people don't have to think too hard about women having to prove that their miscarriages were natural and not because they aborted their pregnancies intentionally at the threat of jail time or some other monstrous scenario until it's too late and the damage has been done.
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Mar 31, 2016 16:06
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It doesn't matter how much calling out a president or media does, there will always be the hardliners that watch Fox News or read The Blaze and nod their head in agreement as they do. I will say I am getting tired of normal news media (i.e. your local news channels) posting stuff on social media saying "Donald Trump thinks women should be punished for having abortions! Do you agree or disagree with him?" as if they're trying to grow a community or something.
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Mar 31, 2016 16:12
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