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Legit Businessman fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Sep 9, 2022 |
# ? Mar 31, 2016 04:37 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 03:02 |
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Criminal justice issues shouldn't be decided on the basis of stories from the headlines and by people who have no knowledge or experience
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 04:47 |
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It would be really nice if we had a way to keep shitstains like Basil Borutski in a box before they get around to committing the crime literally everyone who's ever had contact with the guy knew he was going to commit. I have no idea what shape that might take and I can promise you it would be abused pretty much instantly, but him getting freedom was a really bad idea. A guy can make a few posts on facebook that vacillate between supporting and condemning ISIS and that guy can go to jail for precrime, but a dude who beat the poo poo out of every woman he'd met in increasingly violent and terrible ways can tell you to shove your peace bond up your rear end and there didn't seem to be any recourse. flakeloaf fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Mar 31, 2016 |
# ? Mar 31, 2016 04:48 |
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flakeloaf posted:It would be really nice if we had a way to keep shitstains like Basil Borutski in a box before they get around to committing the crime literally everyone who's ever had contact with the guy knew he was going to commit. I have no idea what shape that might take and I can promise you it would be abused pretty much instantly, but him getting freedom was a really bad idea. Good of you to declare from your armchair and with the benefit of hindsight. Can you tell us what you think about some other murders you read about in the papers
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 04:50 |
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flakeloaf posted:It would be really nice if we had a way to keep shitstains like Basil Borutski in a box before they get around to committing the crime literally everyone who's ever had contact with the guy knew he was going to commit. I have no idea what shape that might take and I can promise you it would be abused pretty much instantly, but him getting freedom was a really bad idea. this right here is pretty much the problem. I would also like longer sentences in general actually. I just think that even with longer sentences you would want to maintain a very robust parole system. e: and more important than longer sentences is a significant increase in resources for corrections, especially at a provincial level. and mental health resources, so that those people don't just clog corrections.
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 04:51 |
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terrorist ambulance posted:Criminal justice issues shouldn't be decided on the basis of stories from the headlines and by people who have no knowledge or experience no you see, my point of view is valid because you don't need to be an expert in criminal justice and
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 04:52 |
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terrorist ambulance posted:Good of you to declare from your armchair and with the benefit of hindsight. Can you tell us what you think about some other murders you read about in the papers Are you trying to make a point or are you just shitposting?
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 04:53 |
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flakeloaf posted:Are you trying to make a point or are you just shitposting? I think the point is pretty clear, it's not shitposting just because it's critical of your obvious and boring posts oh really, you think a guy who murdered some women should have been stopped before he did that. v. interesting stuff
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 05:00 |
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I was wondering out loud about what the mechanism to keep a guy like him contained might look like. You don't have to be a lawyer to have opinions about that sort of stuff, you know. Leaving aside the bucket of things he did after he got out that could've gotten him breached and the creative reasons why that didn't happen, why didn't they just breach him when he refused to sign the probation order in the first place? They knew he was a threat. I only know what the system looks like up to the part where you take the guy to FA court, everything that happens after that point is a dark mystery. Are we going to get yet another "poorly-thought-out law named after a person" that tries to close a loophole that shouldn't have existed in the first place? flakeloaf fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Mar 31, 2016 |
# ? Mar 31, 2016 05:11 |
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I don't mind answering your questions, but I would appreciate if you would read my answers before asking more. I recommended fines for one of my answers. But yeah, I am aware of alternatives to prison terms. The reason I was so heavy handed with sentencing in my answers was A) you asked me what I thought should happen, not was practicable, so I wasn't asking questions like "do we have a bed for this person anywhere." And part of it was that I don't think we treat crimes that make people unsafe with the respect they deserve. If using more dangerous offender designations would require more funding for the courts than I am in favour of more funding for the courts. And why isn't "this guy has assaulted the same woman 3 times including after serving 2 sentences for assaulting that woman a clear enough case? I work with group homes for developmentally delayed sex offenders. Edit: flakeloaf posted:I was wondering out loud about what the mechanism to keep a guy like him contained might look like. You don't have to be a lawyer to have opinions about that sort of stuff, you know. At the risk of being a flippant rear end in a top hat: We could say that this guy is an unusually dangerous person and decide that rather than being required to release him after a fixed period of time, he would need to demonstrate that he was no longer a threat those around him in order to be released. We could then make sure his case is reviewed, lets say every two years, to ensure that we are not imprisoning someone who is no longer a threat. Somebody fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Sep 9, 2022 |
# ? Mar 31, 2016 05:20 |
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Even if they'd coerced him into signing the order with the threat of custody and he'd signed it, do you think he'd be any less likely to do what he did? If the correctional authorities held every rear end in a top hat who thought that his sentence was unjust and he did nothing wrong in custody forever, we'd have incarceration statistics like North Korea or the US.
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 05:22 |
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Cultural Imperial posted:Then stop voting. I spoiled my ballot last federal election.
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 05:26 |
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terrorist ambulance posted:Even if they'd coerced him into signing the order with the threat of custody and he'd signed it, do you think he'd be any less likely to do what he did? If you are trying to make the case that longer prison terms aren't a good thing, attacking the effectiveness of probation orders is probably not the best way to go about it.
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 05:44 |
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flakeloaf posted:People say weird stuff when they're be-reeved. Technically, we've been DE-reeved by Ford's death.
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 08:59 |
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I'm off my Charity Probation now and I just wanted to give a shout out to PT6A, who donated $100 to the Alberta Children's Hospital Foundation. Overall we raised over $1500 USD for a bunch of great causes!
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 10:54 |
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The article says Borutski was ignoring court orders so maybe the solution involves enforcing them?
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 12:13 |
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terrorist ambulance posted:Even if they'd coerced him into signing the order with the threat of custody and he'd signed it, do you think he'd be any less likely to do what he did? Realistically, no. Even if they'd put him back in the box right then, how long could they have kept him, a month? That's just kicking the can down the road. We can't hold him for precrime. He has rights, he's going to get out, and pretty much all we can do to protect his victims is to put him on conditions and hope someone notices him violating them before he does something terrible. Hell, we've released actual convicts whom we knew would do something terrible, and despite public warnings about it with the guy's picture on tv and everything, it still went badly. Better monitoring sounds like an answer to me. It's great and all for people to be saying "oh yeah he was driving, he was within 100 metres, he wasn't being of good behaviour" now, but where were these observations when they mattered?
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 12:52 |
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eXXon posted:The article says Borutski was ignoring court orders so maybe the solution involves enforcing them? I agree with this guy. As usual, chronic OLP underfunding of important services is the real murderer. quote:“I just couldn’t really believe it that we didn’t get an immediate statement from the premier’s office,” said Pamela Cross, a Kingston lawyer who is a leading activist in preventing violence against women. For those who haven't visited our lovely, somewhat destitute county, it's 7000 square km or about the size of the GTA. Edit: The Ontario Liberals are trading cash for access. How is that even legal? (Actual headline) quote:For instance, on Dec. 7 of last year, one of the banks involved in the privatization of Hydro One held a $7,500-per-person fundraiser that raked in $165,000 for the Ontario Liberals. The event was billed in an e-mail from the Bank of Nova Scotia executive who promoted it to his counterparts at other banks as a chance for “a small group of senior executives to spend an informal evening with the Ministers of Energy & Finance.” Postess with the Mostest fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Mar 31, 2016 |
# ? Mar 31, 2016 14:13 |
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I love this election http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/brandon-west-candidate-close-hospitals-1.3513428 quote:The day after losing four candidates due to improper paperwork and another to disqualification for having been an enumerator, Manitoba's Liberal Party is again in the spotlight, this time for comments a Westman candidate made at a debate.
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 14:54 |
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I was just about to post that. The MB Libs are such a hilarious train wreck. I just hope the NDP manage to hang on to power so the Cons can't privatize hydro and car insurance.
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 14:57 |
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Ikantski posted:For those who haven't visited our lovely, somewhat destitute county, it's 7000 square km or about the size of the GTA. If my job involved getting within a mile of this fuckin thing you bet I'd only make it out there once a month, tops. Ontario Auditor General posted:At March 31, 2002, the Ministry employed approximately 770 probation and paroleofficers throughout the province. In addition, as part of the Program, the Ministrycontracts with selected community agencies to provide a variety of counselling andtreatment programs. As of April 1, 2004, there were about 1,100 probation andparole staff working throughout the province, of which about 700 were employed bythe Ministry. The balance of about 400 staff was transferred to the new Ministry ofChildren and Youth Services. In 2003/04, total program expenditures amounted toapproximately $95 million (approximately $82 million in 2001/02). That's one officer for every 85 parolees/probation..eer..s (??). But at least they're well-trained and equipped to do thei quote:Significant findings included the following: oh.
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 15:05 |
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Storyland freaks me out every single time I drive past it to get my cheap french beer. Also, there's much newer auditor data on the probation system http://www.auditor.on.ca/en/content/annualreports/arreports/en14/301en14.pdf http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/reevely-ontarios-probation-system-in-shambles-auditor-reports quote:We’re talking about a system of 101 offices, with 800 probation officers, supervising 51,200 offenders on any given day. In one sense, obviously, it’s not surprising that 60.3 per cent of offenders who are considered very high risks to re-offend went on to commit fresh crimes in the year the auditor studied, 2010-2011. That’s what “very high risk” means. But these are also the offenders who are supposed to be monitored most closely and given the most help. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ontario-probation-officers-understaffed-1.3245289 quote:Gord Longhi, a probation officer for 25 years and current union leader, said there's no way of knowing what impact a probation officer could have had in the preventing the three deaths. Postess with the Mostest fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Mar 31, 2016 |
# ? Mar 31, 2016 15:23 |
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The failures of the probation system should hardly be taken as a reason to impose harsher sentences or keep people imprisoned longer; rather, it should result in us fixing the issues in the probation system.
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 15:26 |
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flakeloaf posted:If my job involved getting within a mile of this fuckin thing I did parole work for 2 years. I enjoyed both but I will definitely agree there's no real training for managing offenders with mental illnesses. High risk offenders, I don't think you can really train for that. It depends on the parole officer predisposition to really watch for the little signs. I remember I busted some guy's request for parole because his new employment gave me a sketchy vibe. I guess it had something to do with it being a front for illegal businesses and they didn't account Google and phone book into consideration! For most part, the officers I worked with are pretty good at what they do but that's just my experience in the prison system and community parole. I miss reading the case files.
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 15:36 |
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PT6A posted:The failures of the probation system should hardly be taken as a reason to impose harsher sentences or keep people imprisoned longer; rather, it should result in us fixing the issues in the probation system. That depends on what the problem is. If the issue is just that we don't have the staff/they aren't trained enough then yeah, that's fixable within the probation system. If the issue is that probation officers are being asked to monitor people in the community who should not be in the community, then longer imprisonment is an answer.
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 15:39 |
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EvilJoven posted:I was just about to post that. The MB Libs are such a hilarious train wreck. I just hope the NDP manage to hang on to power so the Cons can't privatize hydro and car insurance. The Liberals imploding should be enough to get anyone that was going to vote for them back into the NDP camp I would think. An NDP minority sounds like the best outcome for the province.
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 16:46 |
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Patrick Spens posted:That depends on what the problem is. If the issue is just that we don't have the staff/they aren't trained enough then yeah, that's fixable within the probation system. I work in the criminal justice system and its the first one. Most probation officers are awful and do very little to help the people the are supposed to be monitoring.
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 16:51 |
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And here you all are talking about strengthening government unions.
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 17:02 |
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Cultural Imperial posted:And here you all are talking about strengthening government unions. Strengthening unions is a Good Thing and I don't get why some many Canadians are fervently anti-Union
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 17:12 |
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A Typical Goon posted:Strengthening unions is a Good Thing and I don't get why some many Canadians are fervently anti-Union While I am overall not anti union, because of a certain BC union from my last job I will actively avoid ever working anywhere in the future where I have to join one.
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 17:17 |
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A Typical Goon posted:I don't get why some many Canadians are fervently anti-Union Because those filthy public employees already have the best pensions ever and yet they keep asking for more!
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 17:18 |
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A Typical Goon posted:Strengthening unions is a Good Thing and I don't get why some many Canadians are fervently anti-Union Because rather than get angry at their own situation most people would rather blame unions and union employees for being greedy.
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 17:23 |
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DariusLikewise posted:The Liberals imploding should be enough to get anyone that was going to vote for them back into the NDP camp I would think. An NDP minority sounds like the best outcome for the province. It's Manitoba, we are going to swing back to a Conservative sooner or later. A Brian Pallister lead minority government strikes me as a not so bad version of something that is coming sooner or later. A Typical Goon posted:I work in the criminal justice system and its the first one. Most probation officers are awful and do very little to help the people the are supposed to be monitoring. I don't have a ton of experience with P.Os, but the ones I have met have all been on the ball and helpful. But they are working with a fairly elaborate support system, I don't know how things go with more typical offenders. Patrick Spens fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Mar 31, 2016 |
# ? Mar 31, 2016 17:26 |
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A Typical Goon posted:Strengthening unions is a Good Thing and I don't get why some many Canadians are fervently anti-Union Scapegoats and believing you're a temporarily depressed millionare.
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 17:30 |
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They rather other people have less and be in the same lovely situation their own situation improving. Or they're realistic enough to know the working class is hosed and absolutely lost the "class war" so just drag all the crabs back into the pot and dehumanize your self and face to bloodshed. Basically it's a lot easier to build populist pressure to dismantle the few strongish unions we have left in society than to build some sort of new pro-labour social movement. Happiness is judged mostly relative to others, so by dragging government employees down they're making their own lives a tiny bit better.
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 17:47 |
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Bring back the General Strike
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 17:54 |
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then maybe you dumb shitstains shoudl stop complaining about lousy government employees
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 18:01 |
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Cultural Imperial posted:then maybe you dumb shitstains shoudl stop complaining about lousy government employees Unions are good for people. It's a shame most people are useless
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 18:22 |
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CI you've been particularly incoherent since getting off your last probation. I hope you're giving your liver a bit of down time, we wouldn't want to lose CanPol's the closest thing it has to its own Rob Ford.CLAM DOWN posted:While I am overall not anti union, because of a certain BC union from my last job I will actively avoid ever working anywhere in the future where I have to join one. Economies with higher union densities tend to be much better for the average worker but unfortunately individual unions are still just bureaucracies staffed by human beings and they can be every bit as inefficient, alienating or illogical as any other form of bureaucracy.
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 18:27 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 03:02 |
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CLAM DOWN posted:"He's the mayor of heaven now" smoking rocks with the angels
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# ? Mar 31, 2016 18:28 |