Megami Tensei Megathread: two men fuse together and become beautiful

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Hunt11: Jul 24, 2013; Grimey Drawer

PeaceDiner posted:

Speaking of Persona 2... Was there any official comment or explanation given about why they decided to have only the protagonist be able to summon other Persona in 3 and 4? Was there some kind of technical reason, or was it a story reason? The larger cast of characters probably factors in, which is another design choice I'm interested in.

The message in 1 and 2 seemed to be "everybody has several different masks they use." People are better at some than others (which is why characters had different arcana compatibilities), but they can be switched at will depending on the situation and people involved. Different masks are picked up throughout life and through your meetings with different people (or demons, in this case), and sometimes you have to work a little bit harder to get some.

Persona 3 kinda threw that message into the wind and made it so only certain people could change their mask at will, while others were stuck with theirs until a certain situation occurred. But the way characters interact with each other already shows them putting on different masks - for example, the way Yukari interacts with Mitsuru and the way she interacts with the protag are strikingly different at both the beginning of the game and towards the end of the game.

I'll stop before this turns into a dumb effortpost, but I am interested in the exact reasoning behind the switch. I hope that the next Persona will return to the Persona system from P1 and 2.

Story reason. The basic idea was that only the MC interacted with the velvet room and was thus the wild card. As in the story of the journey so that they can use persona's of any type. Every other character, especially those in your party, got given an aspect as in Junpei and Yosuke getting the Magician to approximate some of the qualities and challenges the character had and would go though. To explain character growth from what I can tell it was more moving away from the areas of weakness and self doubt that had to do with the negative aspect of a said tarot card and focusing more on the positive aspects of said struggle.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 07:22

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# ? May 19, 2024 10:27

LordMune: Nov 21, 2006; Helim needed to be invisible.

Yeah, there's a story justification (that doesn't make much sense in the context of P1/P2), but the change was made for gameplay purposes.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 07:37

THE AWESOME GHOST: Oct 21, 2005

PeaceDiner posted:

Speaking of Persona 2... Was there any official comment or explanation given about why they decided to have only the protagonist be able to summon other Persona in 3 and 4? Was there some kind of technical reason, or was it a story reason? The larger cast of characters probably factors in, which is another design choice I'm interested in.

The message in 1 and 2 seemed to be "everybody has several different masks they use." People are better at some than others (which is why characters had different arcana compatibilities), but they can be switched at will depending on the situation and people involved. Different masks are picked up throughout life and through your meetings with different people (or demons, in this case), and sometimes you have to work a little bit harder to get some.

Persona 3 kinda threw that message into the wind and made it so only certain people could change their mask at will, while others were stuck with theirs until a certain situation occurred. But the way characters interact with each other already shows them putting on different masks - for example, the way Yukari interacts with Mitsuru and the way she interacts with the protag are strikingly different at both the beginning of the game and towards the end of the game.

I'll stop before this turns into a dumb effortpost, but I am interested in the exact reasoning behind the switch. I hope that the next Persona will return to the Persona system from P1 and 2.

A good one is the difference between the Junpei/Yukari interaction with the male and female main characters. It completely changes the opening of the game.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 08:19

Luna Was Here: Mar 21, 2013; Lipstick Apathy

PeaceDiner posted:

I hope that the next Persona will return to the Persona system from P1 and 2.

the early report from trailers and promo material makes it seem that it will remain the same as P3/4, which is much better (imo)

# ? Mar 30, 2016 10:16

TurnipFritter: Apr 21, 2010; 10,000 POSTS ON TALKING TIME

It actually skews closer to hit anime Bloodborne than previous Persona titles.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 14:24

TurnipFritter: Apr 21, 2010; 10,000 POSTS ON TALKING TIME

I wouldn't mind if they fleshed out the party member's Personas a bit, either through sub-Personas or some sort of customization or something, so they won't just be like, "I'm fire magic/healing girl, I'm wind magic/support magic guy, I'm phys/lightning magic guy!" again.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 14:26

Harrow: Jun 30, 2012

PeaceDiner posted:

Speaking of Persona 2... Was there any official comment or explanation given about why they decided to have only the protagonist be able to summon other Persona in 3 and 4? Was there some kind of technical reason, or was it a story reason? The larger cast of characters probably factors in, which is another design choice I'm interested in.

The message in 1 and 2 seemed to be "everybody has several different masks they use." People are better at some than others (which is why characters had different arcana compatibilities), but they can be switched at will depending on the situation and people involved. Different masks are picked up throughout life and through your meetings with different people (or demons, in this case), and sometimes you have to work a little bit harder to get some.

Persona 3 kinda threw that message into the wind and made it so only certain people could change their mask at will, while others were stuck with theirs until a certain situation occurred. But the way characters interact with each other already shows them putting on different masks - for example, the way Yukari interacts with Mitsuru and the way she interacts with the protag are strikingly different at both the beginning of the game and towards the end of the game.

I'll stop before this turns into a dumb effortpost, but I am interested in the exact reasoning behind the switch. I hope that the next Persona will return to the Persona system from P1 and 2.

It's sort of a shift from thinking of personas as a mask you wear to face life's challenges, along with the idea that everyone wears several masks in their life, to personas being the real you. I always found the Persona 1/2 way of doing things more interesting from both a gameplay and story perspective, so I've been wanting to be able to change personas for the whole party for a while now.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 14:30

PeaceDiner: Mar 24, 2013

Thanks for all the replies, I think this is an interesting topic. I can definitely see how the idea of Persona might be changing, even if it skews from the original meaning of persona as masks.

From technical standpoint, I could see if they did it as a way to perhaps make the game more challenging - you don't have total free reign over what you get, which means you have to work with only what you have. From a story standpoint, I could also see it as a way of saying "These are other people, you cannot change them, they can only change themselves."

# ? Mar 30, 2016 16:10

Eggplant Squire: Aug 14, 2003

The idea behind P3 was that you were just the hero and not a some nebulous entity controlling the entire party like in most RPGs. So you had to give other characters equipment through conversation prompts, gave them general directions in combat with no control, they had the ability to run around levels without you, as so forth. I think that early in the game's development the wild card aspect probably came after the decision to have it set up like this since moving around the Personas of your characters would have been directly at odds with that design. It was a neat experiment but also frustrating and clunky so I'm glad it was largely abandoned afterwards in P4 and P3P.

Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Mar 30, 2016

# ? Mar 30, 2016 18:01

Item Getter: Dec 14, 2015

PeaceDiner posted:

Speaking of Persona 2... Was there any official comment or explanation given about why they decided to have only the protagonist be able to summon other Persona in 3 and 4? Was there some kind of technical reason, or was it a story reason? The larger cast of characters probably factors in, which is another design choice I'm interested in.

The message in 1 and 2 seemed to be "everybody has several different masks they use." People are better at some than others (which is why characters had different arcana compatibilities), but they can be switched at will depending on the situation and people involved. Different masks are picked up throughout life and through your meetings with different people (or demons, in this case), and sometimes you have to work a little bit harder to get some.

Persona 3 kinda threw that message into the wind and made it so only certain people could change their mask at will, while others were stuck with theirs until a certain situation occurred. But the way characters interact with each other already shows them putting on different masks - for example, the way Yukari interacts with Mitsuru and the way she interacts with the protag are strikingly different at both the beginning of the game and towards the end of the game.

I'll stop before this turns into a dumb effortpost, but I am interested in the exact reasoning behind the switch. I hope that the next Persona will return to the Persona system from P1 and 2.

I like to think it was a gameplay design decision for which they later came up with a story justification...
The Persona 1/2 system, especially in Persona 2, became kind of cumbersome where I would just shuffle the personas between the characters every turn in order to spam a fusion spell in every round. Especially when you can gain a lot of turns via the one more press system, it works better and balances the game to have only one character who can switch personas once per turn. And even then the MC is very overpowered due to easily being able to make a persona with a wide elemental spread.
Also the Social link mechanics introduced in P3 only really make sense with one character. And the persona limitations let them have more available characters while giving them a significant difference from each other. Not to mention the dumb P3 mechanics of having all of the other characters be AI controlled.
I found the p3/4 system to be more enjoyable to play than P1/2, so I don't really mind the change.

# ? Mar 31, 2016 21:39

Waffleman_: Jan 20, 2011; I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

Sega has completed its acquisition of Atlus and will publish future Atlus games in the US in tandem with Atlus USA, including P5.

Really the biggest thing to come from this is that Atlus USA can help Sega bring more niche games like Yakuza and Project Diva to America easier.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 19:23

Luna Was Here: Mar 21, 2013; Lipstick Apathy

Does this mean p5 week release everywhere at the same time (no)

# ? Apr 1, 2016 19:32

projecthalaxy: Dec 27, 2008; Yes hello it is I Kurt's Secret Son

Sure it will. It will release in every region on the same day, never.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 19:45

Alfalfa The Roach: Oct 13, 2012; You need to be a badass first.

Final Fantasy XV might come out before Persona 5

# ? Apr 1, 2016 20:08

cdyoung: Mar 2, 2012

Waffleman_ posted:

Sega has completed its acquisition of Atlus and will publish future Atlus games in the US in tandem with Atlus USA, including P5.

Really the biggest thing to come from this is that Atlus USA can help Sega bring more niche games like Yakuza and Project Diva to America easier.

I remember reading after Sega acquired ATLUS and Index they didn't change a drat thing, nor did they fire anyone, or cancel any projects they were doing. Sega Knows when they get a hot commodity.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 20:13

Super No Vacancy: Jul 26, 2012

hope this means sega hard girls are confirmed for p5

# ? Apr 1, 2016 20:14

El Hefe: Oct 31, 2006; You coulda had a V8/
Instead of a tre-eight slug to yo' cranium/
I got six and I'm aimin' 'em/
Will I bust or keep you guessin'

Alfalfa The Roach posted:

Final Fantasy XV might come out before Persona 5

Might? more like for sure

# ? Apr 1, 2016 20:21

Lord Chumley: May 14, 2007; Embrace your destiny.

Alfalfa The Roach posted:

Barkley 2 might come out before Persona 5

# ? Apr 1, 2016 20:44

Unmature: May 9, 2008

Duke Nukem Forever might come out before Persona 5. Amirite, guys?

# ? Apr 1, 2016 23:18

Waffleman_: Jan 20, 2011; I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

cdyoung posted:

I remember reading after Sega acquired ATLUS and Index they didn't change a drat thing, nor did they fire anyone, or cancel any projects they were doing. Sega Knows when they get a hot commodity.

Yeah, I think the only thing that'll change in regards to P5 is Sega's name being on the box.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 23:25

Captain Baal: Oct 23, 2010; I Failed At Anime 2022

Persona 5 now featuring Sonic the Hedgehog

Still scheduled to be a bad game, sky blue, grass green, etc.

# ? Apr 2, 2016 01:22

Alfalfa The Roach: Oct 13, 2012; You need to be a badass first.

Beef what do you think of Final Fantasy XV and its related media

# ? Apr 2, 2016 01:25

Captain Baal: Oct 23, 2010; I Failed At Anime 2022

Better than Persona 4's which consisted of a mediocre rhythm game, dungeon crawler, and good fighting game with a myriad of mediocre to lovely anime adaptations, light novels, and manga.

For real though it's very concerning that Square's not satisfied with just making the loving game and feels they have to sink all this time and money into other poo poo, although it probably didn't cost them the world aside from probably the car and B-List actors. It's annoying and I don't like it, but I'm still gonna buy FFXV cause it looks good.

# ? Apr 2, 2016 01:33

Expect My Mom: Nov 18, 2013; by Smythe

I watched the first episode of the FFXV anime and those look like some good boys, I hope their game is good.

# ? Apr 2, 2016 01:36

TurnipFritter: Apr 21, 2010; 10,000 POSTS ON TALKING TIME

The first episode of the new Persona 4 anime is up on crunchyroll. Edit: It's called Jojo's Bizarre Adventure: Diamond is Unbreakable.

# ? Apr 2, 2016 01:42

Alfalfa The Roach: Oct 13, 2012; You need to be a badass first.

Baal posted:

Better than Persona 4's which consisted of a mediocre rhythm game, dungeon crawler, and good fighting game with a myriad of mediocre to lovely anime adaptations, light novels, and manga.

For real though it's very concerning that Square's not satisfied with just making the loving game and feels they have to sink all this time and money into other poo poo, although it probably didn't cost them the world aside from probably the car and B-List actors. It's annoying and I don't like it, but I'm still gonna buy FFXV cause it looks good.

Probably because Square-Enix has gone on record saying they need to sell like 10 million copies to break even so they turn to promoting the poo poo out of it any way they can

# ? Apr 2, 2016 01:53

Captain Baal: Oct 23, 2010; I Failed At Anime 2022

They don't need 10 million copies they're always drama queens about how much they need to sell for poo poo and they know exactly what the market is like so doubling down on that with movies and anime they're just tossing out is dumb and counter-productive.

# ? Apr 2, 2016 01:55

Tae: Oct 24, 2010; Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!

Alfalfa The Roach posted:

Probably because Square-Enix has gone on record saying they need to sell like 10 million copies to break even so they turn to promoting the poo poo out of it any way they can

That was a misquote, the 10 million was Tabata exaggerating on the team wishing they sell that much. They don't actually need to sell that much to break even.

# ? Apr 2, 2016 01:57

Luna Was Here: Mar 21, 2013; Lipstick Apathy

But they will

# ? Apr 2, 2016 02:21

Alfalfa The Roach: Oct 13, 2012; You need to be a badass first.

Oh, my mistake. Thought it was weird that they needed 10 million copies to break even but I figured it was because they were working on the engine and all the content with it for so drat long.

# ? Apr 2, 2016 03:31

Healbot: Jul 7, 2006; very very very fucjable
very vywr very

They'd be lucky to break the 2 million mark over the PS4's lifetime.

# ? Apr 2, 2016 14:21

THE AWESOME GHOST: Oct 21, 2005

Healbot posted:

They'd be lucky to break the 2 million mark over the PS4's lifetime.

The game is coming out on Steam. When FF13, the one nobody liked, came out on steam like 6 years late it was the top selling game on Steam for some time. It'll easily do 2 million on PC alone

# ? Apr 2, 2016 14:28