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mikeycp posted:Here's another one. Whoever it is that actually owns the room should make a permanent one. https://discord.gg/0u4xNK5cYwzkmxCG this one should be permanent!
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Mar 29, 2016 06:49
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Is there a good andriod app structured for learning Go? Also is there a separate app that people use to play go vs a good/maybe adjustable AI and maybe other people without a bunch of lovely ads (I will pay for it)? Oh and since one of you nerds probably knows this all the same questions but for (duplicate) bridge. I play the pokies but other than being able to see people playing Go or Bridge and know that they're playing Go or Bridge I don't know anything about either game.
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Mar 29, 2016 23:57
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Dat rear end  This thread inspired me to take up the game. I've played like 150 games on the Igowin mobile app against the computer. I am now consistently in the 25k range (from 32). Am finally begun to recognize my mistakes, but I still don't feel like I get what I'm doing. My question. Should I just start playing against humans and try to figure things out, or should I be studying? I am a poor and there is a dearth of mobile-available resources that I've found. The Igowin tutor really was barebones. Does the KGS site work well on mobile? Does anyone use PandaGo? This is really fun and I've never screamed at a game like this since I was 12.
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Mar 30, 2016 00:18
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you theoretically can play go on the online-go.com site on your phone. Or at least I can with Chrome. Not recommended, but possible. I used GOdroid a lot to help me build up some 9x9 skills. The AI kind of breaks down in 19x19 in odd ways. Sometimes it makes fine moves, other times it's borderline suicidal. The AI plays 9x9 at about a 15k level I'd guess. I also use tsumego pro to help with puzzles. Play against humans. You can ask them questions. 150 games is a lot more than I've played, but because my games were correspondence games against humans I could take time to analyze stuff and learn a lot more than just spamming games against bots or in a blitz mode capacity.
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Mar 30, 2016 00:27
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I also feel like I play super fast because of how the ai instantly moves. How much time do you normally take to consider a move? Admittedly, my thought process is limited to something like 'try to make a wall, try to make a wall, don't overextend, remember you need 2 eyes, gently caress ME HOW AM I BLOWING THIS' I only have played 9x9 so far, since that's the only thing offered. I feel like that means I've only played like 25 real games.
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Mar 30, 2016 01:07
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Play tons and tons of fast games against real people on a 19x19 board
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Mar 30, 2016 01:12
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Rama of Ra posted:I also feel like I play super fast because of how the ai instantly moves. How much time do you normally take to consider a move? Depends on the game setup. Right now the goon mcmahon tournament has 1-week clocks banked and each move gives back 24 hours. So you could theoretically blow almost a full week on a single move if you wanted to. And sometimes it feels like some people do that. Realistically? If you're in a live game maybe 10-90 seconds depending on the phase of the game and the complexity of the play at hand. In a typical correspondence I'll take between one minute for a simple move and an hour for a very complex move. The latter is only if I'm playing through entire chains of moves, trying to predict my opponent's responses and thinking up counters to them. It's a substitution for reading experience. I'm trying to develop better instincts and gut, so I'm doing that a lot less at the moment, no more than 5-10 minutes for a move before I just say "fuckit" and go with what seems best after making sure it's not an obvious trap.
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Mar 30, 2016 02:48
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Pander posted:In a typical correspondence I'll take between one minute for a simple move and an hour for a very complex move. So. Since I have no concept of what a 'simple' vs 'complex' move is. (When I'm so dumb I get put into double Atari, I feel like the differentiation is pragmatically of little value). What does this mean for dumb-dumb level play? When I was young I was strong at chess, and could play ahead. I don't get what 'strategy' in go means. I play tactics, and I get that I suffer for it. I have very little appreciation of 'a good shape'. Can I only progress with study/live play?
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Mar 30, 2016 03:40
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I've heard it said that low ranked amateurs should play fast all the time because they don't have a lot to think about, thus it's better to develop an instinct for shape and the general flow of the game, etc.
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Mar 30, 2016 04:13
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My first win against a dan!!! (I didn't count during the game) Anyway I did some math and consider myself to be 1k now. It makes sense that KGS currently thinks I'm 1d because the difference in our calculations was that I included my unrated loss against fellow ITGOer impulse7.
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Mar 30, 2016 04:48
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Rama of Ra posted:So. Since I have no concept of what a 'simple' vs 'complex' move is. (When I'm so dumb I get put into double Atari, I feel like the differentiation is pragmatically of little value). What does this mean for dumb-dumb level play? Simple vs complex is subjective I guess. I view it as "how much brainpower I need to put into my next move to make drat sure I don't screw it up." I'm borderline SDK (single-digit kyu, newish but not entirely wet behind the ears) and I still don't *get* early game fuseki stuff, like when to approach or enclose or split or how to make a framework. Instead I kinda stumble around drunkenly early game until mid-game, where my better sense of direction of play help me figure out more concrete 'good moves' instead of more abstract framework building. So for me, "simple" would be taking a knight jump approach to a 4-4, or taking the 5-4 after someone takes the 3-4. Complex is when I'm counting liberties to determine if my opponent's group is dead, and if/if not how best to exploit it for maximum gain. poo poo look at me talking like I know anything. The gist is you can just play however you feel most comfortable. If you like to go to sensei's library to see how moves typically shake out, you can. I like to do that, and then go one step further, figuring out why the moves work and the general theory behind them. But you don't have to, you can just play moves and if you play enough and are okay with losing enough you'll 'get' why moves work after a while, especially if your opponent can teach you.
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Mar 30, 2016 07:14
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I think I need to understand more of the words being used around here and just what they look like on the board. I still am barely grasping what live and dead groups 'look' like, and completely rely on the ai to count points. I feel almost like I win by luck no matter if it's by 1.5 points or 24. Sometimes the game ends and I lose by 80 points and I finally realize that we weren't tied. I dunno. So I guess I'll start playing people and try to ask questions. This thread is really good and I'm glad I found it, even though 90% of the posts are still unintelligible to me. Maybe I'll go to the library tomorrow and look for a book but I'm doubtful they'll have anything.
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Mar 30, 2016 07:31
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I've been going through Graded Go Problems For Beginners (http://senseis.xmp.net/?GradedGoProblemsForBeginners) after buying them on the Go Books app for iPhone. I skipped volume 1 because it's mostly simple problems like where do you play after atari, but it does contain the basics of life and death. I really like the Go Books app, it gives good feedback if you make wrong moves, and you have the ability to play out variations in the app itself. I'm still trash at go and haven't played many human matches, but I at least feel like I can see life or death situations better after doing these problems.
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Mar 30, 2016 07:44
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i think i have reached the end of my improvement at ~5-8k or so, since i dont really have time to play a lot of games and read more than a book here and there. I dont really care though, the game is still fun.
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Mar 30, 2016 17:49
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I wanna hit 1D. if I eat sleep and breathe go for a year maybe I can reach it
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Mar 30, 2016 18:04
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Rama of Ra posted:I think I need to understand more of the words being used around here and just what they look like on the board. I still am barely grasping what live and dead groups 'look' like, and completely rely on the ai to count points. Nobody knows what anything means at first, don't sweat it. Hit me up for a non-ranked game on online-go.com sometime! Username should just be Pander.
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Mar 30, 2016 18:33
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Pander posted:Nobody knows what anything means at first, don't sweat it. If this is an open invitation I may do this tonight, I played 4 games against a homie yesterday and in at least half of them I had "uhhhh so now what should I do?" moments, hah.
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Mar 30, 2016 18:59
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sure. My schedule isn't amazing, but in a correspondence game with long deadlines it's not a problem.
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Mar 30, 2016 19:01
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Apparently earlier this month, wms gave up on KGS HTML client, created and documented a JSON API, and released a java program (without source code) that translates the JSON into KGS-intelligible binary.
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Mar 30, 2016 23:56
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Is there a major difference between the first and second editions of The Second Book of Go? The second edition is $90 on Amazon, while the first edition can be had for $20 on half.com.
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Mar 31, 2016 00:06
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Xom posted:Apparently earlier this month, wms gave up on KGS HTML client, created and documented a JSON API, and released a java program (without source code) that translates the JSON into KGS-intelligible binary. Yeah I saw this the other day. Whenever a discussion about KGS comes up I think its important to note that wms posts on google+ still. As long as he still refuses to open source any of his stuff, KGS development will be stagnant. Nobody is going to bother working on it.
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Mar 31, 2016 03:04
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Rama, you would be better served playing against actual people at your level. Correspondence games won't do you any good at this point either. If you'd like help, teaching, reviews, explanations, whatever you want to call it... you should hang out on KGS in the ITGO room or even just ask random people on KGS for help. Muddling your way through the game is possible up to a point but takes a ridiculously long time and generally results in stagnation without at least some minimal guidance.
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Mar 31, 2016 04:10
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HummedExplosions posted:Is there a major difference between the first and second editions of The Second Book of Go? The second edition is $90 on Amazon, while the first edition can be had for $20 on half.com. Amazon is overpriced for everything go related.
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Mar 31, 2016 16:03
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Pander posted:sure. My schedule isn't amazing, but in a correspondence game with long deadlines it's not a problem. I didn't get to this last night but I'm gonna do it tonight! AdorableStar posted:Amazon is overpriced for everything go related. I just got the YMI 0.4" 9x9 bamboo board for like 16 bucks, that seems pretty sweet to me? The book prices do vary a lot more, you're right.
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Mar 31, 2016 19:43
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I got my  cheapo stones off Amazon (five years ago).
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Mar 31, 2016 20:00
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Let me change that to "go book" then.
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Mar 31, 2016 20:05
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Johnny Truant posted:I didn't get to this last night but I'm gonna do it tonight! I just noticed your post history for this thread. I find it kinda amusing you had made the same introductory post twice, only separated by 8 years.
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Mar 31, 2016 20:15
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Pander posted:I just noticed your post history for this thread. I find it kinda amusing you had made the same introductory post twice, only separated by 8 years. every time I thought I was out... THEY PULL ME BACK IN
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Mar 31, 2016 20:31
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Symbolic Butt posted:every time I thought I was out... THEY PULL ME BACK IN Eve online
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Mar 31, 2016 20:36
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Pander posted:I just noticed your post history for this thread. I find it kinda amusing you had made the same introductory post twice, only separated by 8 years. Oh my god that's great, I didn't even realize that! At least I'm consistent, right? Fake edit: is it more normal for the board to be more expensive than the stones, or vice versa?
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Mar 31, 2016 21:16
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Pander posted:I just noticed your post history for this thread. I find it kinda amusing you had made the same introductory post twice, only separated by 8 years. This is probably a dumb question, but how do you check someone's post history in a specific thread?
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Mar 31, 2016 21:23
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sunaurus posted:This is probably a dumb question, but how do you check someone's post history in a specific thread? Press the little question mark below to the person's avatar.
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Mar 31, 2016 22:00
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Johnny Truant posted:
This depends on the board and stones. If they're of similar quality or however you'd compare that, the board should be more expensive.
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Mar 31, 2016 22:28
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Pander - just sent you an online-go challenge! Prepare to beat me so badly that you might even be embarrassed...
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Apr 1, 2016 03:04
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Rama of Ra posted:So. Since I have no concept of what a 'simple' vs 'complex' move is. (When I'm so dumb I get put into double Atari, I feel like the differentiation is pragmatically of little value). What does this mean for dumb-dumb level play? Just had my first blue screen while trying to do this so all again: Play more games, yes. Maybe no more than 5x30s/move. Find one thing you think is definitely a mistake and never do it again  There is a decent android app called ElyGo which has loads of tsumego in it. It starts real simple and progresses up through five levels. The cool thing is that a technique introduced in one problem will now reoccur throughout the later ones. Any basic L&D go book is going to be helpful. It is possibly more beneficial to do lots and lots of easier problems quickly than only struggle through harder problems. You then get harder books and do the same again. You also get bonus mileage from the books in that you can turn them upside down/90' and do it all again and again. It will help massively when you come to a game and say 'hang on a second, i know this'. Or even better, 'stop doing that, it won't work'. In the Beginning is a pretty cool Go book because it shows you some basic patterns you can start applying. There's another one from much latter and different series called something like 100 problems for baduk players vol 2. The second one has all the standard corners and side positions you will know and love. Find an opening you like and stick to it. If you don't have one you like then go with 3-4s. Find a few joseki and stick with them. Then when it comes to your games you will again rapidly recognise the 'thats worth a few extra points' or even 'you just gave me a huge side and a target to attack in sente'. You can always learn more, later. Good luck
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Apr 1, 2016 10:10
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i have done it. i have reached zen go. a while ago i managed to stop caring about my rank, but only in as much as i didnt care what the number was exactly, but i still was very worried about improving. now i dont care about improving anymore. i could be 8k forever and be fine with it. now i am truly free to enjoy go. yay me.
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Apr 1, 2016 19:56
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So now that AlphaGo has ruined the game forever, I was curious if there existed any interest in variants online. When you read a list of Go variants, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_variants It mostly sounds like god-awful gimmickry. Maybe Tetromino-Go could be interesting, but not as interesting as actual Tetris-Go. Now, MarGo is a variant that allows you to slither over a barrier, but it seems like a lot more moves to play a game on the same size board. One game that has an intriguingly simple premise is Oust by Marke Steere. Since there’s no Ko rule, the rules are arguably even simpler than the rules of Go: 1. You cannot grow a group (not even from one stone to two) without making a capture. 2. Captures are made when your group is larger (after your move) than some enemy group that it’s touching (after your move). All such smaller enemy groups are captured by that move. 3. If you make a capturing/growing move, you move again. This is the best demo I could find of it being played: http://lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=5635
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Apr 2, 2016 05:47
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I see lots of bots at the 27k and 20k level on kgs, but are there any higher? I'm new and like to take my time between moves, so either bots or correspondence would be best. If anyone else new would like to play me hit me up, I usually play 13x13.
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Apr 2, 2016 07:38
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Booyah- posted:I see lots of bots at the 27k and 20k level on kgs, but are there any higher? I'm new and like to take my time between moves, so either bots or correspondence would be best. If anyone else new would like to play me hit me up, I usually play 13x13. They go up to at least 1d (there might even be higher). However, all of them are extremely busy and not all of them put up open challenges in the Computer Go room. I think these ones tend to pick up your automatch challenges. I believe you can untick all but the bots box and get an appropriate strength bot when one is free. But you should be playing humans. If time limits are your thing, just make a custom match in KGS and put a lot of time in there. For correspondence, try OGS. There are always tons of correspondence games to pick up there. EDIT: I feel like new players play bots because they're in some way ashamed of losing to a human. Losing to a human has about 1000 times the value as losing to a bot.
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Apr 2, 2016 15:57
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sometimes i want to play a bot because im at work and i can play a correspondence game and have them respond instantly, but i dont have to respond instantly. but yeah the ogs bots have been pretty much non functional for a while now. overloaded by the new people.
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Apr 2, 2016 16:44
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