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I take back every critical thing I've said, this is the show of the year
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Apr 1, 2016 01:40
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Next year's inside reference for New Yorkers, Pizzarat.
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Apr 1, 2016 01:50
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I'm wrapping up the season now and I definitely think the second half of the season is in decline compared to the first half. The first 4 episodes make a pretty solid Punisher arc, they could have been a mini-series themselves, and then the show kinda scuffles figuring out what to do next. Bernthal is great, he's captivating whenever he's onscreen, and its also a pleasure to see D'Onofrio back, as a Kingpin thats clearly beginning to enjoy himself a little bit more. The jail bits were great, and that fight in the cell block was definitely the most vicious thing they've done in the show so far. But god. The ninjas. The ninjas are so lame, and the mystery around them and "The Hand" completely uninteresting and dull. I guess the stakes are supposed to be higher than last season but I can't be bothered to care. Maybe the world is ending but these faceless ninjas and their weird mythology, it just doesn't contrast well with the Punisher stuff. Ah well, I'll see how it wraps up but I'm not holding out hope.
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Apr 1, 2016 06:27
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Gyges posted:I'm just charitably assuming people moving around without heartbeats is confusing Matt. I mean, Stick had to tell him to listen to their breathing which there's no way he couldn't already hear. So I guess Matt is a loving idiot who couldn't get past humunculi moving around without heartbeats until Stick gave him another method to see them as human? I think it's because hearing them breathe, which, as you say, he probably already could do, is entirely different than tracking individuals via the extremely subtle differences in their breathing. This is why fighting Nobu wasn't a problem despite Nobu also being dead: it was just Nobu.
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Apr 1, 2016 06:36
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I like the idea of Matt getting hit on all sides, with The Punisher and Elektra and The Hand all crashing into him at once. But there's very little acknowledgement by Matt that he's involved in both stories simultaneously. It instead feels like two shows guest starring Murdock.
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Apr 1, 2016 09:26
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlG3oLyVcAc Someone put the Kingpin/Murdock scene up on youtube so I watched it again. It's so dense with thematic and character info but at the same time reinforces the tension between the two. Just an amazing scene, one of the best from the whole season/series. One thing I noticed was that Matt tells Fisk that he'll never be able to be with an exiled Vanessa, because he could never live away from NYC. At the end of the series, Matt told Elektra that he wanted to run away with her. So that makes me wonder if he was lying, knowing that he has to live in Hell's Kitchen, lying to himself, or if the writers just forgot. Also, next season I can totally see them doing the Kingpin-ruins-Matt's-life-from-the-shadows plot from the beginning of Born Again. It's such a good arc in the comics that is full of weighty emotion and drama, and Fisk's speech to Matt in prison sets it up so perfectly. The only problematic thing is that part of the tension in the comics is that Matt doesn't know why this is all happening to him, I think MCU Matt would be pretty fuckin clear about what's going on. Either way I'd expect D'Onfrio to feature majorly in next season, and it's going to be awesome.
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Apr 1, 2016 16:12
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zoux posted:One thing I noticed was that Matt tells Fisk that he'll never be able to be with an exiled Vanessa, because he could never live away from NYC. At the end of the series, Matt told Elektra that he wanted to run away with her. So that makes me wonder if he was lying, knowing that he has to live in Hell's Kitchen, lying to himself, or if the writers just forgot. Matt says Fisk could never live away from NYC, not him.
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Apr 1, 2016 16:20
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enraged_camel posted:Matt says Fisk could never live away from NYC, not him. Nah, he says "You're like me, etc." Not to mention the thematic similarities between Fisk and Matt, how they're different sides of the same coin and so on.
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Apr 1, 2016 16:21
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Matt was saying that stuff to Elektra because they both thought they were certainly going to die. People lie to themselves all the time on their deathbeds.
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Apr 1, 2016 16:41
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notthegoatseguy posted:Matt was saying that stuff to Elektra because they both thought they were certainly going to die. People lie to themselves all the time on their deathbeds. And Matt's theme this season is definitely lying to everyone he loves for his own self-satisfaction 
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Apr 1, 2016 17:03
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I love when Matt slaps the table. It (almost) covers up him calling out Fisk on his bullshit about the city being "out of his hands" for the time being, and it gives Matt a clearer view of the room and his surroundings before he brings up Vanessa. Everything about it screams Daredevil.
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Apr 1, 2016 20:59
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zoux posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlG3oLyVcAc Agreed. That was a fantastic scene. Everything with D'Onofrio has kicked rear end in both seasons. I particularly enjoyed how Matt didn't fight back, acted scared and the subtle way they played it. At first, I was like "why doesn't Matt kick his rear end?" and then seconds later realized it was to protect his identity, but it wasn't overstated. Same way they played Frank sort of kind of recognizing Matt's voice and knowing who he was but not hitting you over the head with it. It's great writing and very well acted. I also like the way that Wilson goes from insecure man baby, to puppet master who's in control at all times, to sophisticated gentleman eating his prime rib with plastic utensils and drinking his vintage wine in a plastic cup to angry hulking lunatic all in the blink of an eye. The writing and the acting for Kingpin is probably the best part of the show for me. He's scared but he's not and the show does a great job illustrating his inner conflict, his insecurities and the lengths he goes to mask them by projecting strength. I even noticed that occasionally they frame shots and use perspective tricks to portray Fisk as small and weak and then big and strong all in the same scene, depending on what they're trying to convey and the dynamics of the scene. They do this when Fisk meets the Punisher and, to a lesser extent, when he meets Matt. At times, he looks really small and un-intimidating but often, in the same scene, the way they frame the shot makes him look bigger, stronger and scarier. Like, if you watch that scene again, it starts out with Matt and Wilson exactly the same size, facing each other at opposite sides of the table - totally equal except for the guy hanging out behind Matt's back - but every time the tables turn, one figure is larger or more tightly framed depending on who has the upper hand in the discussion. Even when Matt is being choked, his strength comes out because he's framed so tightly and appears larger. It's really good film making; from acting, to the writing and the directing. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Apr 1, 2016 |
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Apr 1, 2016 21:21
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April 1st is my least favorite day of the year but this looks legit: Jessica Henwick cast as Colleen Wing for IF.
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Apr 1, 2016 21:59
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BrianWilly posted:April 1st is my least favorite day of the year but this looks legit: Jessica Henwick cast as Colleen Wing for IF. It'd be hilarious if everyone they cast was from GoT.
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Apr 1, 2016 22:03
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Other than Kingpin and Bullseye I don't really know any of Daredevils villains. What others are there?
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Apr 1, 2016 23:15
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i bet theres some bad guy with an angel theme, so the good devil can fight the bad angel? idk
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Apr 1, 2016 23:17
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Zzulu posted:Other than Kingpin and Bullseye I don't really know any of Daredevils villains. What others are there? The biggest in terms of "they'll probably show up in Season 3" is like Typhoid Mary or something. Elektra, The Hand, Bullseye, Kingpin and Punisher are the cream of the crop in that regards.
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Apr 1, 2016 23:18
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BiggerBoat posted:Agreed. That was a fantastic scene. Everything with D'Onofrio has kicked rear end in both seasons. I like that they actually had Matt throw one punch. If I remember right, he throws his arms up to break Fisk's hold and tags him in the mouth. Fisk slams him back down and says something like "Ah, that's right, son of a boxer!"
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Apr 1, 2016 23:26
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10 Beers posted:I like that they actually had Matt throw one punch. If I remember right, he throws his arms up to break Fisk's hold and tags him in the mouth. Fisk slams him back down and says something like "Ah, that's right, son of a boxer!" The delivery of that line was so good.
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Apr 1, 2016 23:39
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Zzulu posted:Other than Kingpin and Bullseye I don't really know any of Daredevils villains. What others are there? Stilt Man! The Toad! Yeah, DD has a pretty lame rogues gallery for sure. Punisher and Electra count. Typhoid Mary, The Owl, Purple Man, The Jester, Gladiator...The Hand, Mr. Fear. Turk. DD is at his best when he's just busting up regular mooks.
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Apr 2, 2016 00:03
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There was a pretty obvious partial pair of stilt-pants sitting there when he's talking to the costume guy too. Probably just a joke though.
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Apr 2, 2016 00:58
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BiggerBoat posted:Stilt Man! The Toad! And just for reference, Owl, Gladiator, and Turk have all appeared already. Owl was the finance guy in S1, Turk is the recurring arms dealer/informant who had the ankle monitor in S2, and Gladiator is Melvin the guy who builds Daredevil's armor and weapons.
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Apr 2, 2016 01:39
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There's Mr. Slaughter the weapons dealer, the least subtle name in all of fiction. Way to go Frank Miller.
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Apr 2, 2016 02:38
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Inkspot posted:I love when Matt slaps the table. It (almost) covers up him calling out Fisk on his bullshit about the city being "out of his hands" for the time being, and it gives Matt a clearer view of the room and his surroundings before he brings up Vanessa. Everything about it screams Daredevil. AW poo poo, I didn't catch that at all, that's loving radical!
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Apr 2, 2016 02:45
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Best thing about the season? At no point does anyone demand to be put in Supermax. That loving episode...if it wasn't for the amazing Kilgrave scene in the police station, that ep would be completely unwatchable.
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Apr 2, 2016 03:13
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ImpAtom posted:The biggest in terms of "they'll probably show up in Season 3" is like Typhoid Mary or something. Elektra, The Hand, Bullseye, Kingpin and Punisher are the cream of the crop in that regards. I bet that season three of Daredevil will make do with just Fisk and Bullseye. A villain like Typhoid Mary is more likely to be seen on a season two of Jessica Jone because she doesn't seem to have a rogues gallery and it makes sense to put a superpowered villain against a superpowered hero rather than the more 'grounded' Daredevil.
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Apr 2, 2016 03:19
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10 Beers posted:I like that they actually had Matt throw one punch. If I remember right, he throws his arms up to break Fisk's hold and tags him in the mouth. Fisk slams him back down and says something like "Ah, that's right, son of a boxer!" That one punch will come back to haunt Matt in season 3. Fisk connected the dots and wanted more information on Matt.
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Apr 2, 2016 04:37
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I just realized that Daredevil is the ONLY character in the MCU with the anti-killing obsession where as non-cinematic DC won't shut up about it. For gently caress's sake, even Captain America has flat out wasted people when it's called for. ED: The fact they don't cram it down everyone's throats (outside of just Daredevil) makes it feel way more reasonable though. Outside of kill-crazy types like the Punisher they usually avoid it if they can, but like I mentioned.. some dude whips out a minigun on a city street, Cap is putting him down for good; yet he'd still try to avoid killing the same person if possible. These hyper "NO KILL NO MATTER WHAT EVER" characters end up going off the deep end in the other extreme and even MORE people die because of it, though interestingly on the show itself, it seems to be aware it's not a perfect philosophy and doesn't try to parrot JUST Matt's POV. Hell the only reason Jessica Jones didn't just murder the gently caress out of Kilgrave immediately was trying to help other people, not out of some "I cannot harm a life," bullshit. I mean I'm not saying "Oh man everyone should be like the Punisher!" just that nobody's going to blame someone for killing a kill crazed murder ninja zombie. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Apr 2, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 08:09
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Blazing Ownager posted:I just realized that Daredevil is the ONLY character in the MCU with the anti-killing obsession where as non-cinematic DC won't shut up about it. ... Spider-Man? Also DC has a lot of characters that kill. Like Jason Todd, the Red Hood, is an ongoing character with his own book where he kills people. The Green Lanterns kill on a regular basis. Most non-Batman/Superman heroes are okay with killing and just prefer not to do it as opposed to Never Kill Ever. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Apr 2, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 08:32
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Blazing Ownager posted:I just realized that Daredevil is the ONLY character in the MCU with the anti-killing obsession where as non-cinematic DC won't shut up about it. Pretty sure the Daredevil fixation on not killing pretty much comes down to him realizing that he enjoys beating the living poo poo out of people on a regular basis and moving into killing them will pretty quickly undo any and all good will he's developed. That and massive, massive amounts of catholic guilt and anxiety regarding sin. Because beating someone into a coma and breaking half the bones in their body, leaving them unable to support their family and causing a miserable life of homelessness and further crime is A-OK, just don't kill 'em. The catholicism is a huge part of his character, after all.
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Apr 2, 2016 09:52
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nvm
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Apr 2, 2016 10:27
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Finished up last night. What an amazing show, and an amazing season. I almost squealed when Melvin gave Matt that "gift" though, I was waiting 12 episodes for it!
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Apr 2, 2016 12:15
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Blazing Ownager posted:For gently caress's sake, even Captain America has flat out wasted people when it's called for. To be fair, Cap's a soldier that fought in World War II. It'd be weirder if he DIDN'T have some kills in his history. ImpAtom posted:... Spider-Man? I don't read a whole lot of DC and never really have, but I'm pretty sure Wonder Woman, at least the modern version, kills the gently caress outta people swinging around that sword and shield nowadays
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Apr 2, 2016 13:19
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ImpAtom posted:The Green Lanterns kill on a regular basis.
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Apr 2, 2016 13:27
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Well that sucked compared to season 1. Having two completely unrelated, season long plotlines is fine as long as at least one of them actually goes somewhere. The Hand were fine in season 1 as a minor, mysterious background element, but so much time is wasted on them this season and we learn nothing substantial about them whatsoever, except that they have even more mysterious plots than before.  The Punisher story had a lot of potential but after the halfway point the focus had well and truly shifted and he basically didn't need to exist any more. Either they started writing a season for The Punisher but realised they didn't have enough of an antagonist to make it interesting so shoved The Hand in, or they started writing it for The Hand but realised that it wouldn't have any recognisable characters (other than Electra) to market so they shoved The Punisher in. stev fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Apr 2, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 16:42
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Steve2911 posted:Well that sucked compared to season 1. Having two completely unrelated, season long plotlines is fine as long as at least one of them actually goes somewhere. A mess of a narrative with a lot of cool scenes is how season 2 ended up. It really is the worst part of the season. Season 1 was so tight and was non-stop "Move, counter-move. Move, counter-move," and we spent almost as much time with the villains as the heroes. It made for some compelling stuff. One of the most mixed seasons of TV ever for me with super high highs and no real super lows, but an overall disjointedness.
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Apr 2, 2016 16:47
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Also I love that Karen spent months being slowly trained to be an investigative journalist because she has good instincts etc, and at the end it turns out she can't write for poo poo. I can just imagine Ellison's face after reading that fanfic quality draft.zoux posted:Also, next season I can totally see them doing the Kingpin-ruins-Matt's-life-from-the-shadows plot from the beginning of Born Again. I just checked the plot summary of this on Wikipedia. Holy poo poo I hope they end up taking Karen's character in that hosed up direction. stev fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Apr 2, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 17:02
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I think the second season suffers from being largely set-up for future storylines. It's simultaneously a Punisher origin story, establishing some kind of law firm story for Foggy/Hogarth possibly related to Iron Fist or the Defenders, an Elektra origin story, spending two episodes establishing Fisk's new criminal kingpin existence in prison, and establishing Karen Page's journalism career/mysterious past. They cover a lot of ground without actually finishing much. It's kind of weird to realize that the two big villains that are defeated are Nobu and The Blacksmith, both really thin characters with no backstory or well-established motives. Even minor villains like Wesley or Madame Gao were far more intriguing. Nobu was basically a fighting-mook with cool scars, and The Blacksmith was barely even a character. What was up with that? The last episode feels like they suddenly realized "oh poo poo, we're at episode 13, uh... okay everybody gets kidnapped offscreen, lets wrap this poo poo up!" I thought it was really great up until the last episode. Periodiko fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Apr 2, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 17:16
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BiggerBoat posted:Stilt Man! The Toad! Deathstalker would be cool, also Mr. Hyde but they used him on AoS, Tarantula, Anger (also AoS), the Enforcers (Montana, Ox, and Fancy Dan), Bushwacker.
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Apr 2, 2016 17:21
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The recent media manipulating Jester would go well with Kingpin and Bullseye and secret identity drama.
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Apr 2, 2016 17:25
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