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The Butcher posted:smoking rocks with the angels I just read that Doug called him Canada's Mayor during the eulogy. 
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Mar 31, 2016 18:30
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Just the lying, racist, corrupt homophobic part.
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Mar 31, 2016 18:32
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Cultural Imperial posted:Then stop voting. I get that this is your thing, but what's your actual reasoning behind this? Like what benefit do you think that will achieve in the long term? Even if we accept that all parties and politicians are garbage, choosing not to participate will never change that. It just entrenches the status quo further. Why not vote for the lesser evil (or whatever appears to be the lesser evil at that time)?
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Mar 31, 2016 18:36
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Helsing posted:Economies with higher union densities tend to be much better for the average worker but unfortunately individual unions are still just bureaucracies staffed by human beings and they can be every bit as inefficient, alienating or illogical as any other form of bureaucracy. My union was ~3500 members in size, I don't want to be specific about the industry or location for doxxing reasons or whatever because it's an unusual and publicly well-known union, but in the 6 years I worked there it was an awful, bureaucratic, inefficient, corrupt, unfair, and arrogant mess. It completely turned me off ever wanting to join a union again. It's unfortunate, because I used to be much more pro-union, now I barely find myself able to tolerate them after this awful experience.
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Mar 31, 2016 18:56
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I've not yet heard a good union story about the little guys banding together and fighting for their rights, but having known a teacher and a municipal employee I've certainly heard a whole lot of "oh my god gently caress this union bullshit". e: I like the idea of unions. They're a good thing, and anyone who calls for getting rid of them now that we have actual labour laws is by extension calling for corporations to run rampant over those selfsame laws. At the same time, holy god some of them make some -rear end- decisions on a regular basis
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Mar 31, 2016 18:59
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The City of Ottawa has announced that it will open up the ride-sharing market to allow Uber to operate alongside cabbies, as long as riders accept that it's a two-party arrangement that has nothing to do with the city, and drivers accept that they have to pay licensing fees and meet minimum standards. Try as I might, I just can't muster any sympathy for a guy who spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on an "investment plate" so two other poor schmucks could work long, lovely days to line his pockets.
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Mar 31, 2016 19:23
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So PEI is finally loving getting an abortion clinic
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Mar 31, 2016 19:27
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flakeloaf posted:The City of Ottawa has announced that it will open up the ride-sharing market to allow Uber to operate alongside cabbies, as long as riders accept that it's a two-party arrangement that has nothing to do with the city, and drivers accept that they have to pay licensing fees and meet minimum standards. Try as I might, I just can't muster any sympathy for a guy who spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on an "investment plate" so two other poor schmucks could work long, lovely days to line his pockets. This was an inevitability after the cabbies disgraced themselves with their "airport strike" nonsense last year. Don't gently caress with the capital airport if you want anybody to treat your special interest group seriously, geniuses.
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Mar 31, 2016 19:27
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Oooo I'll tackle this because I hate myself.The Butcher posted:I get that this is your thing, but what's your actual reasoning behind this? Like what benefit do you think that will achieve in the long term? Once voter turn out gets sufficiently low enough (because of the below point about all the options being garbage), it will become increasingly difficult for a government to legitimately claim that they have a mandate or reflect the will of the people or whatever other bullshit democracy is supposed to do. The Butcher posted:Even if we accept that all parties and politicians are garbage, choosing not to participate will never change that. It just entrenches the status quo further. If all the politicians are garbage then the democracy isn't functioning as it should. Holding your nose and voting legitimises the broken system. The Butcher posted:Why not vote for the lesser evil (or whatever appears to be the lesser evil at that time)? People holding their nose and voting doesn't mean they are going to vote for the guy you want them to vote for. There's no silent plurality of Orange voters that are just to darned lazy to get out and change the country to what you want it to be. ChickenWing posted:I've not yet heard a good union story about the little guys banding together and fighting for their rights, but having known a teacher and a municipal employee I've certainly heard a whole lot of "oh my god gently caress this union bullshit". As it turns out, unions are susceptible to all the same bullshit that all organizations/corporations/governments are. Bureaucratic hell, power struggles and polticking.
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Mar 31, 2016 19:28
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ChickenWing posted:I've not yet heard a good union story about the little guys banding together and fighting for their rights, but having known a teacher and a municipal employee I've certainly heard a whole lot of "oh my god gently caress this union bullshit". My mom was heavily involved in getting the ESL teachers at her school board unionized. They didn't have sick days, their pay was poo poo, they weren't paid for their extra prep time, etc. Later, in the arbitration, the school board used janitors as their salary comparison. The thing that will always stick with me is that the management refused an offer before the unionization took place to just give them a handful of sick days and avoid the whole thing. They said no, unionization happened, and the teachers ended up getting far more than they were initially asking for. I don't like unions but I like bad management less.
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Mar 31, 2016 19:33
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ZShakespeare posted:Once voter turn out gets sufficiently low enough (because of the below point about all the options being garbage), it will become increasingly difficult for a government to legitimately claim that they have a mandate or reflect the will of the people or whatever other bullshit democracy is supposed to do. You know if you want to say that voting is just a waste of time then that's a debatable and defensible position, but the idea that low voter turnout is going to in any way whatsoever impede the government's legitimacy or freedom of action is laughable. I find it stunning that people who are sceptical enough about the system to decry voting are somehow simultaneously naive enough to think that this is a reasonable idea.
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Mar 31, 2016 19:34
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A union saved me from something I didn't deserve that would have ruined my life forever.
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Mar 31, 2016 19:36
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bunnyofdoom posted:So PEI is finally loving getting an abortion clinic Put your corkscrew away, we haven't heard what kind of ludicrous conditions will be set on its use.
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Mar 31, 2016 19:48
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If my vote can't represent me AND doesn't make a difference, I'd rather no party get my $2.
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Mar 31, 2016 19:55
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bunnyofdoom posted:So PEI is finally loving getting an abortion clinic Wow, that's been an issue as long as CanPol threads have existed I think. flakeloaf posted:Put your corkscrew away, we haven't heard what kind of ludicrous conditions will be set on its use. Is there any way any conditions could be considered constitutional?
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Mar 31, 2016 19:57
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sund posted:If my vote can't represent me AND doesn't make a difference, I'd rather no party get my $2. I thought it was 1.50, and was anyway removed under Harper? Unless you mean Manitoba.
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Mar 31, 2016 19:57
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Helsing posted:You know if you want to say that voting is just a waste of time then that's a debatable and defensible position, but the idea that low voter turnout is going to in any way whatsoever impede the government's legitimacy or freedom of action is laughable. I find it stunning that people who are sceptical enough about the system to decry voting are somehow simultaneously naive enough to think that this is a reasonable idea. What do you call a government that governs without the consent of it's people? I'm not saying that it will impede the government's ability to govern. I'm saying that it will impede the government's ability to claim that it's a democracy. If the government can't make that claim, and we value democracy (that's the real question here), then change will necessarily happen from without the system.
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Mar 31, 2016 19:59
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sund posted:If my vote can't represent me AND doesn't make a difference, I'd rather no party get my $2. That's fair and I really don't blame anyone for not voting. I do, however, think it's kind of funny that some non-voters apparently have more respect for the idea that democracy legitimizes the state than I, an actual voter, do. There are plenty of instances of countries with competitive electoral systems where the government gradually or rapidly losses its democratic legitimacy. The elites of these countries don't suddenly go "oh poo poo, we better dial down the corruption before we lose our legitimacy!" They just transition into outright dictatorships. The 'legitimacy' of the state might be aided by propaganda and civic institutions but at its base there's a group of armed and uniformed men who will come beat you up, imprison you or kill you for getting out of line.
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Mar 31, 2016 20:00
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Count Roland posted:I thought it was 1.50, and was anyway removed under Harper? Yeah the vote subsidy disappeared in 2015 with the passing of the Keeping Canada’s Economy & Jobs Growing Act in 2011.
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Mar 31, 2016 20:01
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surely if voting turnout dips below 50% the people will rise up and
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Mar 31, 2016 20:02
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I like to vote because Local Politics Actually Do Matter, In Fact.
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Mar 31, 2016 20:02
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ZShakespeare posted:What do you call a government that governs without the consent of it's people? I'm not saying that it will impede the government's ability to govern. I'm saying that it will impede the government's ability to claim that it's a democracy. If the government can't make that claim, and we value democracy (that's the real question here), then change will necessarily happen from without the system. It's exceedingly rare but one does occasionally find groups using electoral participation (though never on it's own, it always has to come with other forms of organizing) to actually force more concessions out of the system. Even groups who don't respect bourgeois democracy, such as the Nazis, Bolsheviks, Islamists, etc. are able to use elections as a focal point for their political energy and organizing. On the other hand, I've never ever heard of significant government reform coming from a lack of voter participation. It's the opposite: the fewer people voting the less responsive the system becomes. The vote share in Canada has already plummeted from its peak in the mid-20th century and if anything it's just encouraged the government to get even worse, not better. There's no easy solution and I'm not going to pretend anyone you could vote for right now would make much of a difference. But I don't see any reason to think that mass non-participation in the electoral system would improve things at all. My own view is that it's the relative passivity of the average citizen that leads to these problems. If enough Canadian citizens were active and working together then it wouldn't even matter so much whether they were voting or not. But that, to me, is the relevant indicator: how mobilized and active are normal people, how many participate in civic organizations, how many think about politics as a vehicle for achieving actual change? The general passivity of the average Canadian is the problem here and whether they vote or not is the last of it.
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Mar 31, 2016 20:10
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ZShakespeare posted:I'm saying that it will impede the government's ability to claim that it's a democracy. If the government can't make that claim, and we value democracy (that's the real question here), then change will necessarily happen from without the system. [citation needed]
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Mar 31, 2016 20:12
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flakeloaf posted:The City of Ottawa has announced that it will open up the ride-sharing market to allow Uber to operate alongside cabbies, as long as riders accept that it's a two-party arrangement that has nothing to do with the city, and drivers accept that they have to pay licensing fees and meet minimum standards. Try as I might, I just can't muster any sympathy for a guy who spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on an "investment plate" so two other poor schmucks could work long, lovely days to line his pockets. This really doesn't matter due to Uber's massive money burn and insurance issues.
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Mar 31, 2016 20:12
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JawKnee posted:surely if voting turnout dips below 50% the people will rise up and Lol no it's not even that, it's that somehow those in power will realize the error of their ways and graciously make way for ?????? Profit!
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Mar 31, 2016 20:29
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I'm still trying to work out what "insurance issues" exist. Either buy commercial insurance for your vehicle, or gently caress off. Eventually some insurance company will come up with a good part-time commercial insurance plan, and then all the other companies will jump on board to compete. I don't get why everyone keeps acting like commercial insurance is some sort of unicorn. Plenty of drivers have it already, believe it or not!
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Mar 31, 2016 20:31
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Dreylad posted:Is there any way any conditions could be considered constitutional? As long as they're restrictions based on bullshit Catholic dogma they trump the Canada Health Act. The church used to own many of the hospitals, so when they sold them to pay for the lawsuits against their rapist clergy or whatever, they were able to stipulate that stuff like abortions and vasectomies be forbidden from being done in their former hospital. There are/were hospitals in pretty much every major city that have/had those restrictions. Or in PEI's case, both of their hospitals were like that. Lassitude fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Mar 31, 2016 |
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Mar 31, 2016 20:35
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Helsing posted:It's exceedingly rare but one does occasionally find groups using electoral participation (though never on it's own, it always has to come with other forms of organizing) to actually force more concessions out of the system. Even groups who don't respect bourgeois democracy, such as the Nazis, Bolsheviks, Islamists, etc. are able to use elections as a focal point for their political energy and organizing. I largely agree, and I'm not trying to make the point that I'm right and you're wrong. I'm more illustrating my mindset when it comes to modern democracy. Obviously I do vote as I'm sure certain posters will recall because I vote wrong. I think that the country would be better if more people voted and, critically, that there were more choice. I also understand that being politically engaged on a constant basis is exhausting and completely empathize with people who don't want to do it. I also believe that the current form of Canadian politics, and western politics at large, is largely broken for a number of reasons, and that the choice offered at the ballot is largely false. Ultimately I don't believe that, in general, the average voter can make a difference and it's pretty clear to me that there are entities that are much more equal than others. I think that if we were an outright plutocracy without the veneer of democracy, then we could at the very least call it what it is. In my mind that's a pretty compelling reason for a person to abstain.
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Mar 31, 2016 21:11
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Green Party doing what it does best: running interference for the Liberals. Don't forget you guys, it's Harper's C-51
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Mar 31, 2016 22:00
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I'm sure Justin will make those essential tweaks he promised, I mean that's why he voted for it, so he could purge it of harper's evil and turn it into something very ethical and good for canada.
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Mar 31, 2016 22:13
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“It would not have an effect on human rights in Saudi Arabia,” Mr. Dion predicted, if the Liberals were to scrap a 14-year lucrative contract to build fighting machines that will be equipped with machine guns or anti-tank weapons. See, little old Canada can't stop the Saudis from doing what they do, so we might as well be the ones selling them the tools they do it with! It Creates Jobs! Ethical oil, ethical war machines!
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Mar 31, 2016 22:18
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Signing the TPP might be the most treacherous thing the Liberals have done but continuing with that deal with Saudi Arabia is probably their most outright heinous act. The Saudis are very actively murdering entire neighborhoods in Yemen as we speak.
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Mar 31, 2016 22:28
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Helsing posted:Signing the TPP might be the most treacherous thing the Liberals have done but continuing with that deal with Saudi Arabia is probably their most outright heinous act. The Saudis are very actively murdering entire neighborhoods in Yemen as we speak. I believe Justin Trudeau advised the Yemen neighborhoods to "just hang in there" as per official liberal policy so should be fine.
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Mar 31, 2016 22:33
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Maxime Bernier, Innovation Critic of the Official Opposition, Honourable Member for Beauce, former Minister of Foreign Affairs, and possible CPC leadership candidate, has something important to say. He thinks Canada needs less government, and more freedom, like China. No seriously: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntMlw6QRalA quote:Speaking at the Conservative Futures conference in Barrie, Ontario this month, Bernier named "China" as a good example of how to lift "hundreds of millions of people" out of poverty through "less government and more freedom."
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Mar 31, 2016 22:44
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Helsing posted:Signing the TPP might be the most treacherous thing the Liberals have done but continuing with that deal with Saudi Arabia is probably their most outright heinous act. The Saudis are very actively murdering entire neighborhoods in Yemen as we speak. No you are forgetting that we made the Saudis pinky-swear to never ever use the LAVs to hurt anybody and besides they are *light* armoured vehicles so really how much harm could they cause against anyone
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Mar 31, 2016 22:46
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THC posted:Maxime Bernier, Innovation Critic of the Official Opposition, Honourable Member for Beauce, former Minister of Foreign Affairs, and possible CPC leadership candidate, has something important to say. He thinks Canada needs less government, and more freedom, like China. And people are wondering why I hope he wins the CPC leadership.
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Mar 31, 2016 23:29
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El Scotch posted:And people are wondering why I hope he wins the CPC leadership. I'm trying to come up with a charitable explanation of what he really meant.... .... nope, I got nothin'. I agree, such breath-taking stupidity should be on national media more often. Foreign Affairs? Seriously?
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Apr 1, 2016 03:09
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He should be on Team Justin, all admirin' of China and all.
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Apr 1, 2016 03:29
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PT6A posted:I'm still trying to work out what "insurance issues" exist. Either buy commercial insurance for your vehicle, or gently caress off. Eventually some insurance company will come up with a good part-time commercial insurance plan, and then all the other companies will jump on board to compete. The issue is many drivers don't have it, and there's no enforcement on Uber's part to ensure that they do and no way for the municipality to track unbadged jitneys to ensure compliance. So when your e-jitney gets t-boned and it turns out Joe Blogs UberX partner extraordinaire doesn't have the right insurance, well too bad for you, maybe you can sue him to try to cover the lifetime of physio and lost wages you'll be facing. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Apr 1, 2016 |
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Apr 1, 2016 14:00
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What kind of backward rear end province doesn't have no-fault insurance? In any sane country the other party not being insured shouldn't be the victims problem.
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Apr 1, 2016 14:13
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