|
Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:I can't figure out a good Superman story. This must mean I'm smart and it's impossible. No other way to read this situation. Even Garth Ennis wrote a good Superman story and that dude writes about a superhero loving an asteroid and rape zombie apocalypse as normal fare.
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 18:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 01:53 |
|
|
If I was a superhero capable of loving an asteroid I would do it
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 18:24
|
|
|
Frankenstyle posted:So is that peoples problem with MoS, that Superman kills people? It's not a great movie, but S-man is such a boring poo poo character. The closest thing to making him any sort of interesting was going with the whole "If you're a human atom bomb, you can't take a dump without a little collateral damage". Batman has plenty of angles to go with without making him a serial killer, and that's a stupid move for Snyder. But the only good story idea for Superman other than painting him as almost as dangerous as whatever problem he's fixing, would be just not making a Superman movie. Did you ever watch the Superman cartoon? it was pretty good. They even did a cartoon movie where he fought Batman! Have you watched that? Have you read All-Star Superman, or Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 18:28
|
|
|
Young Freud posted:Even Garth Ennis wrote a good Superman story and that dude writes about a superhero loving an asteroid and rape zombie apocalypse as normal fare. what are these latter two 
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 18:31
|
|
|
it turns out that yesterday's man of tomorrow was today's future of things past
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 18:31
|
|
|
Woden posted:WTF is a thunderbolts movie and why would that be a good thing? Thunderbolts is a group of villains that acted like superheroes in order to gain everybody's trust, with the end goal of figuring out all the real heroes weaknesses and destroy them, and then take over the world or whatever. But along the way, some of them got too into their pretend hero role, and decided they liked being good guys
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 18:31
|
|
|
Four Score posted:what are these latter two Probably The Boys and Crossed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 18:33
|
|
|
Gaunab posted:Probably The Boys and Crossed. Yes. I was thinking about Tek Knight's finale for The Boys, since that got posted all the time on BSS. And, yes, Crossed was billed as Ennis' answer to the zombie apocalypse genre, even though the Crossed virus doesn't actually kill the infected, it just warps them into insane rape machines.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 18:43
|
|
|
Garth Ennis loves rape
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 18:45
|
|
|
i think if a superman grew up in modern day kansas, hed be a real jerk
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 18:46
|
|
|
Remember in the late 90s and early 00s when Marvel was looking at Captain America, an anachronistic do-gooder with no major personality traits aside from punching Nazis, and said "crap, there's just nothing we can do with this guy. Better make his a grim motherfucker with a machine gun. Really our best option"?
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 18:47
|
|
|
Mr. Pumroy posted:i think if a superman grew up in modern day kansas, hed be a real jerk I want to see Superman advocate for teaching creationism in schools.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 18:48
|
|
|
Young Freud posted:Yes. I was thinking about Tek Knight's finale for The Boys, since that got posted all the time on BSS. And, yes, Crossed was billed as Ennis' answer to the zombie apocalypse genre, even though the Crossed virus doesn't actually kill the infected, it just warps them into insane rape machines. crossed made am a lot more uncomfortable when I didn't know about the virus part and thought people were just loving to death for fun.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 18:57
|
|
|
Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:What was the point of having Lois Lane follow up on that bullet fragment? We as an audience already knew Lex was evil and had some master plan, and Lex basically explains that plan unprompted to Superman when he actually shows up. Has anyone seen this answered anywhere? That entire subplot does not effect or connect to the main plot in any way. Lois learning about the connection between the mercs in Africa and Lex has no impact on the plot. What the hell was the point?
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 19:08
|
|
|
Lt. Chips posted:Has anyone seen this answered anywhere? That entire subplot does not effect or connect to the main plot in any way. Lois learning about the connection between the mercs in Africa and Lex has no impact on the plot. What the hell was the point? On the one hand Lois is completely pointless to the plot of the movie. However in Snyder's mind the only thing that actually motivates Superman or makes him give a poo poo at all is banging her, so in a sense she's incredibly important. He's a feminist, you see.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 19:14
|
|
|
What I find funny about all the plot holes in BvS is that Nolan's Dark Knight movies had just as many. The Joker was one enormous never-ending nonsensical plothole. But no one noticed. No one noticed because the story being told was compelling. We were so caught up in the idea of Joker being an unstoppable chaotic force that Batman couldn't defeat without compromise that we never asked ourselves how he managed to do all the nonsensical poo poo he did in that movie. The reason why we notice so much of it here is because we, as the audience, just dont give a gently caress about the story. We're not enraptured by what is happening, so we are just sitting here like "yeah ok what about the bullet?" EDIT: One question. Did wheelchair bomb guy know there was a bomb in his wheelchair or not? The movie never really tells us if Lex convinced the guy to kill himself to hurt Superman, or if he was tricked into getting into the same room as Supes and just never knew.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 19:18
|
|
|
i went to go see this in theaters and walked out -- there was this girl a couple seats down that was just making weird throat-pig-squeals to impress her boyfriend she was sitting with, and she did this during really inappropriate moments and it ruined my experience
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 19:24
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:What I find funny about all the plot holes in BvS is that Nolan's Dark Knight movies had just as many. I think this also an expectation thing. It makes sense to many people that the Joker would be a villain that comes out of nowhere with an unclear motive in the 'force of nature'-type mold. Causing chaos/loving with Batman for its own sake just makes sense with the Joker from a cultural knowledge standpoint. Lex Luthor on the other hand is a brilliant businessman and scientist. He may want to kill Superman and release Doomsday, but the why is a bigger sticking point because they EXPECT Luthor to have a why. Especially in the first movie he appears that hasn't established his character yet.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 19:30
|
|
|
Lt. Chips posted:I think this also an expectation thing. It makes sense to many people that the Joker would be a villain that comes out of nowhere with an unclear motive in the 'force of nature'-type mold. Causing chaos/loving with Batman for its own sake just makes sense with the Joker from a cultural knowledge standpoint. No, I don't mean why, I mean how. Like, no one ever asked how Joker knew the exact moment to tell Batman where Dent and Rachel were so that it would be perfectly timed for her to die seconds before she could be rescued. We didn't ask because we were caught up in the moment. But it makes absolutely no sense. At the same time, everyone figured out why diving into the well for the spear was dumb within seconds.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 19:38
|
|
|
clitical hit posted:making weird throat-pig-squeals to impress her boyfriend que
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 19:40
|
|
|
clitical hit posted:i went to go see this in theaters and walked out -- there was this girl a couple seats down that was just making weird throat-pig-squeals to impress her boyfriend she was sitting with, and she did this during really inappropriate moments and it ruined my experience The chick from Kung Pow! Enter the Fist is a real person?
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 19:42
|
|
|
Ah, gotcha. I've been mulling over motivations myself, so that's probably why I jumped to the assumption that you were talking about that. Weren't the bombs on timers? I would imagine it wouldn't be too terribly difficult to estimate the required time it would take to get to the two bomb sites.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 19:43
|
|
|
Lt. Chips posted:Weren't the bombs on timers? I would imagine it wouldn't be too terribly difficult to estimate the required time it would take to get to the two bomb sites. He was in a cell without a clock for hours and got it to the exact second.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 19:44
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:What I find funny about all the plot holes in BvS is that Nolan's Dark Knight movies had just as many. Mel Mudkiper posted:No, I don't mean why, I mean how. Mel Mudkiper posted:He was in a cell without a clock for hours and got it to the exact second. I like Batman Begins best out of the three because even though it's badly written at times, it's at least cohesive. People do things that seem to make sense at least by their internal logic, people have reasons for doing things most of the time, the hero has like an arc. The Dark Knight was pretty stupid and nothing made sense. The joker's plans don't work by any logic at all (not even insane comic book logic) and he could teleport people and explosions around the city at will, as if he had a copy of the script with him. But Heath Ledger and Aaron Eckhart did such a phenomenal job that nobody cares so it's still a fun movie. Dark Knight Rises was even worse about teleporting people and explosions and things that don't make any sense, and it had no ledger or eckhard, and it was a turd.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 19:55
|
|
|
Batman Begins was boring. Who was even the villain in that movie? Some guy on a train?
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 19:58
|
|
|
Zzulu posted:Batman Begins was boring. Who was even the villain in that movie? Some guy on a train? mostly mobsters then there was crane with the scary drugs experiments on the side. then yeah at the end there was the guy who trained him and was like "we need to destroy gotham" back when they were training, and he was back to destroy gotham and got owned on the train I liked him beating up the mobsters the best
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 19:59
|
|
|
batman begins was boring as gently caress though it did contain an amazing scene where bruce wayne single handedly destroys a vaunted and ancient order of super assassins by throwing a torch in the corner seriously that had to be the most flammable lair in all of fiction
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 20:01
|
|
|
many johnnys posted:The Dark Knight was pretty stupid and nothing made sense. The joker's plans don't work by any logic at all (not even insane comic book logic) and he could teleport people and explosions around the city at will, as if he had a copy of the script with him. But Heath Ledger and Aaron Eckhart did such a phenomenal job that nobody cares so it's still a fun movie. I actually think it's okay that Joker is not bound by the weights of various probabilities. I see him as a walking black-swan event. Everything he tries works out, otherwise he'd still be a loony stuck in Arkham (or whatever your favorite origin story says). The only real reason Batman has trouble with him at all is because he's maximally lucky at absolutely everything. But you can't write a story where Two-Face or Bane gets the same lucky breaks, it only feels right when Joker does it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 20:09
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:What I find funny about all the plot holes in BvS is that Nolan's Dark Knight movies had just as many. Well the other thing is that Nolan seems to have some idea of how to pace a story and how to cut between scenes and plot threads to there's a cohesive energy behind the whole thing. BvS is so poorly paced and edited in terms of linking the various sub-plots it's impossible to miss these problems. An interesting moment with Batman or Lex comes to a halt so we can jump to Lois Lane. Her scene has no energy or purpose, Amy Adams seems to have been caught off guard every time the camera is on her. Why is this scene here, I wonder. The movie is littered with incoherent scene changes. Perry White goes looking for Kent in the office and doesn't find him, White quips "What, did he run back to Kansas or something?" HARD CUT...to Lois Lane. Not to the obvious scene of Kent talking to his mom in Kansas. I can't even remember what leads in to WW looking at those videos of Flash and Aquaman. All I know is that as opposed to a little bit of epilogue it's jammed in right before our third act. It's weird and surprising and possibly a game-changer for how Batman might think about the world...nope too late he's got a big fight to go do.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 20:21
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:No, I don't mean why, I mean how. Also it would have been a lot easier for him to lie about the timers and just set up a remote switch that detonated the other bomb when Batman released one of them, so Batman would rush to one of the bomb sites as quickly as possible and doom the other person before the GCPD could get a bomb squad on site. But I just checked the scene and there were actually timers on the bombs which ran down exactly at the right time so there goes that theory ...
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
Nobody except for a handful of dumb contrarian nerds gave a poo poo about plot holes in The Dark Knight because the dramatic logic was clear and effective and that matters a trillion times more than "realism" or whatever. People gave a poo poo about them in MoS(and presumably this movie as well) because Snyder bumbles a lot of the basics and you have to actively reorient yourself as a viewer to make sense of the story, which means examining the dumb poo poo you'd otherwise overlook or disregard
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
TheIncredulousHulk posted:Nobody except for a handful of dumb contrarian nerds gave a poo poo about plot holes in The Dark Knight because the dramatic logic was clear and effective and that matters a trillion times more than "realism" or whatever. People gave a poo poo about them in MoS(and presumably this movie as well) because Snyder bumbles a lot of the basics and you have to actively reorient yourself as a viewer to make sense of the story, which means examining the dumb poo poo you'd otherwise overlook or disregard Right, exactly my point
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 20:50
|
|
|
clitical hit posted:i went to go see this in theaters and walked out -- there was this girl a couple seats down that was just making weird throat-pig-squeals to impress her boyfriend she was sitting with, and she did this during really inappropriate moments and it ruined my experience She is the hero you deserve
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 20:54
|
|
|
TheIncredulousHulk posted:Nobody except for a handful of dumb contrarian nerds gave a poo poo about plot holes in The Dark Knight because the dramatic logic was clear and effective and that matters a trillion times more than "realism" or whatever. People gave a poo poo about them in MoS(and presumably this movie as well) because Snyder bumbles a lot of the basics and you have to actively reorient yourself as a viewer to make sense of the story, which means examining the dumb poo poo you'd otherwise overlook or disregard Yeah.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 20:56
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:Right, exactly my point Yeah sorry I had meant to expound upon it to where it wasn't just a summary of preceding posts but got lazy after a few sentences and went to go get coffee so I was just like gently caress it. To dig in a little more, in the scene with the time bombs you have the Joker forcing Batman to make the choice. Like sure it's convenient that the bombs go off right then, but it'd arguably work worse if you had like a cut to the Joker manually triggering the bombs or something, even if it would've been more believable. By having him step back a little and leaving the explosion up to a timer, it drops the weight of the choice entirely onto Batman. It's also pretty important that the choice is built into the framework of the whole loving story beforehand, weighing love and personal fulfillment against justice and the greater good and all that poo poo, so it is emotionally satisfying and meaningful to see it played out. Contrast with Man of Steel, which tosses random vague ideas around willy-nilly and never explores or delivers on any of them, then tries to present Superman with a similar choice(kill Zod or let him kill some people) despite doing exactly zero setup for it at any point and actively undermining it in the whole stupid giant fight scene that leads up to it in which thousands are allowed to die. Goddamn I hate MoS so loving much
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 21:23
|
|
|
TheIncredulousHulk posted:Nobody except for a handful of dumb contrarian nerds gave a poo poo about plot holes in The Dark Knight because the dramatic logic was clear and effective and that matters a trillion times more than "realism" or whatever. People gave a poo poo about them in MoS(and presumably this movie as well) because Snyder bumbles a lot of the basics and you have to actively reorient yourself as a viewer to make sense of the story, which means examining the dumb poo poo you'd otherwise overlook or disregard Yeah, there's usually similar "plot holes" in any film if you're dumb enough to put aside your suspension of disbelief and examine the film on a level it wasn't meant to be examined. Dorkly.com did an entire series of comic strips around the idea of movie villains hiring a PA whose entire job was pointing out the dumb flaws in their plans. "Hey Lord Voldermort, don't try putting a curse on tiny baby Harry Potter, just pick him up and shake him. He's a baby."
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 21:26
|
|
|
What was so confusing about MoS?
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 21:28
|
|
|
Zzulu posted:What was so confusing about MoS? I think my first question was- why is Superman in this movie? What is he doing? edit: sorry I thought you were asking about BvS, nevermind
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 21:35
|
|
|
Frankenstyle posted:Well, history kinda supports me on those points. the two best superman movies have him as a boy scout and they're two of the best superhero movies so you're kinda dumb as poo poo i think.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 21:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 01:53 |
|
|
counter argument: all the spuperpman movies are really bad and cheesy and bad
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 21:42
|
|