Tuskin38 posted:Ah I remember now That dance mat does not use NATO symbols, consider my pre-order canceled.
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Apr 1, 2016 12:29
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Fascists as a form of collectivism, a good April Fool's joke, Paradox!
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Apr 1, 2016 12:34
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paradox pushing the boundaries for gaming. Too bad I was hoping for occulus rift support or atleast first person view.
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Apr 1, 2016 12:58
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Enjoy posted:Fascists as a form of collectivism, a good April Fool's joke, Paradox! Exactly what I thought here.
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Apr 1, 2016 15:33
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I'm sure they're just using "collectivist" to characterize things like alien hive minds or whatever. Wait, wrong game.
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Apr 1, 2016 15:55
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I think it's more likely that they're misusing the word because they couldn't think of a more succinct way to say "society in which a person's contribution to the whole is valued over their individual rights, as opposed to the vice-versa typically championed by democracies"
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Apr 1, 2016 16:33
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WeaponGradeSadness posted:I think it's more likely that they're misusing the word because they couldn't think of a more succinct way to say "society in which a person's contribution to the whole is valued over their individual rights, as opposed to the vice-versa typically championed by democracies" Liberal vs Totalitarian? It's not that hard. 
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Apr 1, 2016 17:01
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YF-23 posted:Liberal vs Totalitarian? It's not that hard. Doesn't even need to just be 2 paths, they could expand it into 3 by skipping the collectivist focus (or duplicating it and renaming the duplicates)
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Apr 1, 2016 18:24
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WeaponGradeSadness posted:I think it's more likely that they're misusing the word because they couldn't think of a more succinct way to say "society in which a person's contribution to the whole is valued over their individual rights, as opposed to the vice-versa typically championed by democracies"
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Apr 1, 2016 19:13
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So would the federation, or whatever it is called in Starship Troopers, be a poor man's collective of sorts or some kind of limited democracy? All of the citizens pitch in and donate years of their lives to the central government in order to be given votes. Though I guess that comparison leans more towards democracy since people are not forced into government service, they are just incentivized to do so.
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Apr 1, 2016 19:23
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Strudel Man posted:That's not even misusing the word. 'Corporatist' is more commonly used for fascism, but collectivist absolutely fits; it's all about the state and the people marching together, as it were. Liberal democracies also have nation-states though
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Apr 1, 2016 19:30
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Enjoy posted:Fascists as a form of collectivism, a good April Fool's joke, Paradox! Hitler was a big fan of diversity...?
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Apr 1, 2016 19:46
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YF-23 posted:Liberal vs Totalitarian? It's not that hard. Strudel Man posted:That's not even misusing the word. 'Corporatist' is more commonly used for fascism, but collectivist absolutely fits; it's all about the state and the people marching together, as it were.
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Apr 1, 2016 19:52
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Zombiepop posted:paradox pushing the boundaries for gaming. Too bad I was hoping for occulus rift support or atleast first person view. I am getting my Vive on Tuesday and I would love to play my map games being able to walk up to a big huge map like in Doctor Strangelove. Or, maybe we could get shrunk down to sprite size and look at the map from the perspective of our gaunt soldiers! So many options!
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Apr 1, 2016 20:34
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Anyway, beyond not really liking the "collectivist" umbrella term for fascism and communism, what do we think of the generic focus tree in general on a gameplay level? It's pretty interesting to see more stuff about playing minor powers, since I feel like most of what we've seen has been exclusively majors.
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Apr 1, 2016 20:42
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IncredibleIgloo posted:I am getting my Vive on Tuesday and I would love to play my map games being able to walk up to a big huge map like in Doctor Strangelove. Or, maybe we could get shrunk down to sprite size and look at the map from the perspective of our gaunt soldiers! So many options! wow yeah just like sitting 3 meters away from my screen or zooming right up till individual pixels take up most of my field of view. can't wait!
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Apr 1, 2016 20:44
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Wait does both Hoi4 and Stellaris have drama around the use of "collectivist" to mean "bad guys" ? I'm just going to blame the re-hiring of King, inserting his reactionary-conservative agenda into everything, even games he's not related to or working on.
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Apr 1, 2016 20:45
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I wouldn't use collectivist as an umbrella term, but corporatist organizations, which fascists (or at least fascist regimes) did love, can probably be called collectivist. Whatever that means.
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Apr 1, 2016 20:45
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They could probably just drop the word "Effort" from these focuses, since they something like 90% of them end in "Effort", give or take a number. Armament III has just as much meaning as Armament Effort III, and it's just weird seeing the same word repeated everywhere
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Apr 1, 2016 20:54
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Tomorrow it will be revealed that the use of "Collectivism" here was the actual April's Fools joke and that the DDR mat integration is genuinely happening.
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Apr 1, 2016 20:55
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If Paradox really wants to make the graphics both informative and visually appealing, they'll have the army dudes get more swole as they gain army experience. Maybe that's why the ones people are complaining about being skinny look that way, they haven't done enough pushups yet.
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Apr 1, 2016 20:57
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I can't believe Paradox would have this stupid bias in their game, lumping together brutal dictatorships with ideologies, which are well meaning in theory but possible failed in practice, like fascism, something that didn't really do anything wrong.
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Apr 1, 2016 21:07
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Wooper posted:I can't believe Paradox would have this stupid bias in their game, lumping together brutal dictatorships with ideologies, which are well meaning in theory but possible failed in practice, like fascism, something that didn't really do anything wrong. You can squint really hard so that collectivism just means "people doing things together" but liberal democracies are collectivist too by that standard
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Apr 1, 2016 21:27
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WeaponGradeSadness posted:I think it's more likely that they're misusing the word because they couldn't think of a more succinct way to say "society in which a person's contribution to the whole is valued over their individual rights, as opposed to the vice-versa typically championed by democracies" Isn't that what it means? quote:Collectivism is the moral stance, political philosophy, ideology, or social outlook that emphasizes the significance of groups—their identities, goals, rights, outcomes, etc.—and tends to analyze issues in those terms. Collectivism is a basic cultural element that exists as the reverse of individualism (in the same way high context culture exists as the reverse of low context culture), and in some cases stresses the priority of group goals over individual goals and the importance of cohesion within social groups (such as an ingroup, in whichever specific context it is defined). I think it was used over "Totalitarian" because it's only the beginning of the process. You don't go full on Totalitarian overnight without some kind of revolution, and you don't necessarily have to go Totalitarian just because you are Collectivist.
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Apr 1, 2016 22:15
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Darkrenown posted:Isn't that what it means? Well, from the same article... quote:Collectivism has been used to refer to a diverse range of political and economic positions, including nationalism, direct democracy, representative democracy, monarchy, and communism.
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Apr 1, 2016 22:31
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Apr 1, 2016 22:41
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This game is gonna own can hardly wait 20 days until the release!
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Apr 1, 2016 23:00
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Empress Theonora posted:Anyway, beyond not really liking the "collectivist" umbrella term for fascism and communism, what do we think of the generic focus tree in general on a gameplay level? It's pretty interesting to see more stuff about playing minor powers, since I feel like most of what we've seen has been exclusively majors. I'm thinking that the Industrial tree is going to be a first pick every time. It doesn't matter if you know how to make great CAS, or if you've gone communist or fascist - you're just not relevant if you don't have industry, and you're not going to get that in a timely fashion without the industrial tree.
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Apr 1, 2016 23:30
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Wooper posted:This game is gonna own can hardly wait 20 days until the release! Don't worry buddy, you don't have to wait 20 days 
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Apr 1, 2016 23:31
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Why does the loving name matter, just pick whatever government gives the best bonus.
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Apr 2, 2016 00:28
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Haha, holy poo poo. Political correctness->Indoctrination. gently caress I hope that's not a Frankfurt school reference.
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Apr 2, 2016 01:35
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Haha, holy poo poo. Political correctness->Indoctrination. gently caress I hope that's not a Frankfurt school reference. quote:In the early-to-mid 20th century, the phrase "politically correct" was associated with the dogmatic application of Stalinist doctrine, debated between Communist Party members and Socialists. This usage referred to the Communist party line, which provided for "correct" positions on many political matters The less common/older usage of the phrase, I assume.
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Apr 2, 2016 01:37
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The Narrator posted:The less common/older usage of the phrase, I assume. Fair enough. Maybe they should use 'ideological purity' to get that across better though.
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Apr 2, 2016 01:39
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Fair enough. Maybe they should use 'ideological purity' to get that across better though. I swear paradox is just trolling leftists at this point. I'm surprised there isn't a "cultural marxism" event that hits if your country is too respectful of foreign cultures and immigrants.
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Apr 2, 2016 01:44
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Baronjutter posted:I swear paradox is just trolling leftists at this point. I'm surprised there isn't a "cultural marxism" event that hits if your country is too respectful of foreign cultures and immigrants.
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Apr 2, 2016 02:14
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The Narrator posted:The less common/older usage of the phrase, I assume. For example, it would be politically incorrect to say that thousands of people were ethnically cleansed out of central Asia. The more tactful wording would be that they were "transferred".
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Apr 2, 2016 02:16
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Baronjutter posted:I swear paradox is just trolling leftists at this point. I'm surprised there isn't a "cultural marxism" event that hits if your country is too respectful of foreign cultures and immigrants. You're jumping at shadows, dude.
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Apr 2, 2016 02:23
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Oberleutnant posted:wow yeah just like sitting 3 meters away from my screen or zooming right up till individual pixels take up most of my field of view. can't wait! Look, let's be fair, if ofered the chance to play Stellaris while sitting in the Illusive Man's office from Mass Effect, every single person here would take it. Some guy whipped up an Illusive Man panorama for Virtual Desktop, so I'm really looking forward to getting my space racist on in style.
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Apr 2, 2016 02:24
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WeaponGradeSadness posted:You're jumping at shadows, dude. I like how everyone knew what Paradox meant with 'collectivism', but were just completely uneasy about the implication that radical ideological positions that kill millions of people may have some things in common.
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Apr 2, 2016 03:08
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IncredibleIgloo posted:I am getting my Vive on Tuesday and I would love to play my map games being able to walk up to a big huge map like in Doctor Strangelove. Or, maybe we could get shrunk down to sprite size and look at the map from the perspective of our gaunt soldiers! So many options! The future is looking bright. On another note, I got shadow president working on my computer, great game but I cant believe paradox has not done a remake or similar game(I know its not their IP, but still). Seems like they would do a good job. So add that to my steadily growing list of stuff I want Paradox to do. Also does anyone know of any pro strats for SP?
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Apr 2, 2016 03:38
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